LoveFilmNoir

*Sister Act (1992)* *Sister Act 2: Back in the Habit (1993)* I enjoyed these films. (ducks tomatoes)

Great Topic... I need to pick my brain to figure out works of fiction, but as far as autobiographies, I think there are a few actors/actresses whose life would make an interesting film. Betty Hutton Hedy Lamarr Barbara LaMarr Ramon Navarro I am drawing blanks but Ray Bradbury has some great short stories that could be stretched to 90 minutes of movie. I believe he also wrote the teleplays for Alfred Hitchcock Presents and that show is another example of short stories/episodic television that could be stretched to 90 minutes of movie.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > True. This came up before. Can you have a noir with no crime in the film? The best example is SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS. Though there is plenty of bad behavior, there is no real crime in the film, yet many classify it as a noir.. That is a GREAT topic...I think there are several examples....DAISY KENYON is labeled noir by Fox and it hardly is....I smell a new thread (care to start it). I also been meaning to start a thread inspired by some back and forth banter between me and misswonderly in a thread where we took a simple film and threw in some twists that turned it into a noir.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS is a noir from Lang, which Ida appears in along with a number of other stars. BEWARE MY LOVELY and ON DANGEROUS GROUND, both also with Robert Ryan, are noirs. I believe there are others. THE BIGAMIST, which she directed, is not really a noir. All it needed was a murder.

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote} > > {quote:title=LoveFilmNoir wrote:}{quote} > > The statement was pretty loaded. > > The statement was meant to be loaded. I was a film and video cameraman all my life. You really need to pay careful attention to what I tell you, because I?ve had many years of experience filming people for television, and I know what audiences think when they see different types of people. > > Do you not understand the most fundamental concepts of ?film theory?? > > If you support the cause portrayed in this film, then you should condemn TCM for airing it, since it is way out of date. PBS would never air this show again, because, compared to today, the people in the film looked awful, even frightening. > > This film will actually backfire on the people at TCM who lobbied to air it. This film is exactly, for the liberals of today, what ?Tell Your Children" (1936) (AKA: ?Reefer Madness?) is for the conservatives of today... which is an out of date film filled with old embarrassing people and situations in it. > > Anyway, the film has nothing at all to do with ?classic cinema?. It was shown as a liberal political advocacy propaganda film, but this one ? like the drunk-Indian film ? will backfire, because it will give the wrong impression, the opposite impression from what was intended. FredCDobbs....I respect everyone's opinions around here and I have seen it all, bigotry, homophobia etc. However, I do not know if you are talking down to me or talking at me. Either way, your behavior in this thread is a little disappointing and rather disgusting. We are aware that you have worked in production since the early talkie era and so you are just as interested in the production/behind the scenes aspects of these films. Good for you. The least you can do is respect the opinions of others, and not question their logic or level of intelligence because their views differ from yours. I was going to respond to the points that you made but after your direct and indirect attacks, smart[...] responses etc, I don't feel the need to. You may have been only trying to speak your opinion on TCM's decision to show this documentary while displaying your technical/production knowledge but instead you came off as a complete, dare I say[...] Edited by: TCMWebAdmin on Jun 28, 2010 9:45 PM Strong Profanity and language Edited by: TCMWebAdmin on Jun 28, 2010 10:08 PM Profanity

I'm excited for this! Teen films from the 50s and 60s may seem cheesy and corny by today's standards but I'd watch one of them over much of the "teen" comedies being released these days.

> {quote:title=nightotter wrote:}{quote} > I'm not sure if this subject has been appraoched directly before, but I thought it might be interesting to discuss. > > I was watching (on and off) a couple of war movies on TCM today and noticed, as I have many times, how the older films (these were made before the 1960's), lack blood and guts. After a battle there is no blood to be seen anywhere. When someone gets shot it seems like they die of cardiac arrest more than anything. > > I assume there was a code at the time or at least the unwritten one that was followed by all the directors. > > When did this change? I think I heard someone say once that it was Arthur Penn's Bonnie and Clyde (1967) that first depicted open wounds and blood, but I can't be sure. > > One other thing about older war movies; the soldiers in these movies tend to look older than what the true infantry was like, IMHO. Most of the men in these war movies looked between their late twenties, all the way up to their forties. As much as I like the old war movies the newer ones seem to be cast more realistically. > > Thoughts? > > Otto. About blood and guts: I notice this too....that is why it is easier for me to watch a war film released before 1960 than it is a recent one. The recent ones get so caught up in the make up and special effects that the story lines and subplots lack. Soldier's ages: again, I agree. I recently watched "Crash Dive" with Ty Power and Dana Andrews and they seemed too old. I could even argue the same for Dana Andrews in "The Best Years of Our Lives" and Ty Power in "The Sun Also Rises" where both are playing veterans recently out of the service. But I do notice that in older films, the actors with bit parts that play uncredited soldiers seem to look the right age.

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote} > Someone at TCM seems to think that since these badly-made films are a few decades old, that somehow makes them "classics". But it doesn't. Yes, it doesn't make them classics. But that won't stop them from showing some of the 30s, 40s and 50s films that are of low quality (in my opinion, of course).

MacMurray's narration in DOUBLE INDEMNITY may be the best narration by a character in all of film noir. Of course he is telling a story and at the end we are brought to the present day, but his narration really adds to the quality of the film. The dialogue is well written and delivered. I appreciate the narration in D.O.A. even though it is not as much as in DOUBLE INDEMNITY and moreso Frank Bigelow's digesting all that has happened in such a short period of time. His narration comes off as a person simply thinking out loud.

Soccer is one of the most physical, team-oriented sports ever....with the political undertones of so many people from various countries around the world being able to come together, prejudices etc aside, and watch the sport. And I love it.

> {quote:title=misswonderly wrote:}{quote} > Hey, LFN ! I think you've got something there. That's kind of a fun thread idea - "what would happen in > (fill in classic movie) if you threw in a noir angle?" > > Side Street and Quicksand, both excellent examples of the ordinary decent guy gone astray because of the weakness of a moment. I love the way both characters get pulled deeper and deeper into crime and chaos -the more they try , the farther away they're normal pre-theft lives recede from them. Believe me, misswonderly, when you put a mystery or noir spin on even the most cheesiest fluff of the 30s and 40s it makes for good entertainment. Those Betty Grable/Dan Dailey musicals (which I like either way) of the 40s would be better remembered if they were a boyfriend-girlfriend team of crime solvers with the usual cliche of the times "hurry up and solve this crime, you promised we'd go down to the justice of the peace and be married when it's all over". Carmen Miranda may be more celebrated today if she kept a pistol in her tutti-frutti hat. Things that make you go hmmmm...

> {quote:title=misswonderly wrote:}{quote} > I'd rather see Edmond O'Brien as Star of the Month than Spencer Tracy. To be honest, I can't stand Spence. Looks like I got one on board! It would definitely be a great month of films. He actually was a very diverse actor (also like Mr. Tracy) but I think a month of his work being highlighted would open up the appreciation gates for his career.

> {quote:title=misswonderly wrote:}{quote} > If all protagonists in movies were morally upright, we'd be stuck with a lot of boring movies. I usually find that the more questionable a character's personal ethics are, the more interesting the movie is. William Holden's character in Sunset Boulevard is a great example. ( Sunset is one of my favourite films.) > > Edited by: misswonderly on Jun 24, 2010 8:09 PM I couldn't agree with you more. This is one of the reasons why you probably like noir so much. Sometimes noir main characters are ordinary people with everyday dilemmas - and the things they have to do may not be so lawful or ethical- but it makes for one helluva movie. I like how Farley Granger in "Side Street" and Mickey Rooney in "Quicksand" both take money that doesn't belong to them to provide for a woman/take out a woman and then their whole lives spiral. Who knows, maybe "The Shop Around The Corner" would have been kicked up a notch had Margaret Sullavan's character stole out the register, and bought a cute hat and discussed in her love letters to Jimmy Stewart about her "unmoral" behavior at work without going into detail. Definitely would have turned the romantic comedy a little dark, and wouldn't have had the "Lubitsch-touch" everyone loves about it. (And throw George Raft in there as a bullying mob boss, trying to take ownership from the store owner who winds up dead in an alley half way through the movie, and BAM! you're smack dab in an early film noir and a bunch of characters with motives)

> {quote:title=ClassicViewer wrote:}{quote} > There have also been rumors that Kay Francis was lesbian or bisexual...but who can prove such things? It's easy to make up a big story about a Hollywood celebrity... The only people who can prove or disprove have done what many of us hope that friends etc will do with our deepest, darkest secrets - brought it with them to the grave .

> {quote:title=musicalnovelty wrote:}{quote} > > {quote:title=myidolspencer wrote:}{quote} > > *Spence was last "STOTM" in 2000, who thinks it's also finally his turn? Thank You. > > > If we could be assured that TCM would include Tracy's rarely-seen early 1930's Fox Pictures, then yes. Agreed. Those "Fox" pictures are what's keeping dozens from having a chance at being STOTM for the first time but I wouldn't mind if Spence turned up on the schedule again. I still have many of his films to see, and the many I have seen thus far I really enjoyed. Edmond O'Brien or Victor Mature for star of the month, anyone?

Mikeroykirk, I wasn't speaking particularly about your posts but there have been comments made about this film and a few insulting comments about the people who were interviewed. I watched the documentary in it's entirety and while I don't mind if people want answers as to why it was shown in prime time on TCM (even with many other possible channels one can watch), I couldn't help but raise a brow when FredDobbs wrote: Man, there are some creepy looking people in this program. I haven?t seen people who looked like that since I left California back in ?78. Maybe this film is not so bad after all, because it?s sure to scare a lot of modern kids who see it. It reminds me of those ?before and after? photos of meth addicts. Big difference looks-wise in a homosexual from the late 70s talking candidly to a documentary film maker about their every day life and a before or after photo of a drug abuser. The statement was pretty loaded.

> {quote:title=Hibi wrote:}{quote} > Well, as far as anyone is concerned, who knows how "mixed" one's heritage is unless one does a family tree and how far back do you go? Or can go? > > On the other hand people say a lot of stuff on the web that just cant be proven. As to Kay Francis, just because people say things, doesnt make it so. I read both recent biographies of her and neither writer addressed the issue (and they pretty much left no stones unturned about her private life). Kay had many abortions, but most, if not all (not like I could keep track) were when she was unmarried. She was much married, but not for very long to anyone. So who knows? *I just tend to disbelieve all this hearsay* ............... Hibi, you and me both. These unauthorized biographies that try to glorify the "lows" or extremely private parts of these deceased stars' lives is where some of these things are taken and run with vs. taken with a grain of salt. Kay Francis was a beauty and she had lovely features that I could see where one would try to make the claim that she was of many ethnic backgrounds, however like you said....without any family tree knowledge as facts, it really is just opinion.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > The statement is not my opinion, but that of some film historian (that doesn't necessarily make it a valid point)........ I'm not a racist at all, and I love Lena, but I can't see her passing for white ( even though she was of VERY mixed heritage). Now that, I agree with. I can't see Horne passing for white and definitely not Dorothy....but Linda, yes with the right make up and hue of hair color. ClassicViewer - I don't think I have ever seen Kay Francis in Technicolor but something tells me that if I had, I could possibly "see" the argument people are trying to make. I have read that her "true" heritage was the reason why she never kept a pregnancy for fear that the baby would be brown (again, this could all be preposterous but nonetheless it is rather interesting, as the beautiful Kay had no children). Hibi - When I first read that people speculated about Claudette Colbert's heritage I ignored it, then when I read reasons being the shape of the bridge of her nose and her being a long time resident of Barbados, I immediately dismissed it as absurd. She was simply a white woman that enjoyed being retired in Barbados. When she spoke at Frank Capra's AFI tribute she looked like a lovely, middle aged, well rested white lady. I try to stay away any kind of speculation about these stars since they are deceased and we can't rely on "biographies written after the fact" that became so popular in America in the 80s and 90s where now as a new groups of film lovers are becoming interested in these stars bodies of work, there are some who are more interested in who was gay, lesbian, bi, a racist, of mixed heritage, a liberal, a conservative, a communist, etc etc

Homophobia and ignorance is looming throughout this thread. Not surprised. Carry on.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > They HAD to cast someone like Crain. No way that Horne or Dandridge could have realistically passed for white. I disagree with this. Lena Horne could have more than Dorothy Dandridge but both could have passed (although I love Crain in the film anyway). There are some stars of the Golden Age who today are the topic of "passing for white" and are accused of hiding mixed heritage. I see it on message boards to this day (mainly by racist trolls, but some interesting points are made sometimes). Dorothy Lamour, Kay Francis, Claudette Colbert, and Merle Oberon (who was indeed mixed I believe).

hamradio, I have been viewing many PD films on the Internet Archive. People usually rate the quality (so far what I have watched has been pretty good), it is available to download, and there are no logos.

Natalie Wood was in LOVE WITH THE PROPER STRANGER with Steve McQueen

It is beating a dead horse at this point. I provided a long list of Garbo films available on VHS and DVD that johnbabe could purchase. To be a new and very enthusiastic fan, I would think the movies would be worth the price so that he can watch them anytime before they go out of print.

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote} > To whoever said that JOHNNY APOLLO was more noir than gangster film, I saw much of it again this morning, and I now agree with you. I don't know if I said this previously, but this is my opinion and I have always thought that *Nightmare Alley* was Power's 2nd contribution to the noir genre.

> {quote:title=flick-chick wrote:}{quote} > I can not thank you enough for your help. I have been searching for this film for years and this was my very last hope. I went to youtube and type in Moon over Miami...and there in the first video was the blue and white dress that I remembered from so long ago, and when I played the clip she sang "You started something" which was the song that I use to sing. > > Thank you again. Your help means more than you will ever know! > > Flick-Chick That song is very catchy. The film was part of Robert Osborne's picks for the month and it was shown, I had that tune stuck in my head for at least a week.