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Posts posted by JamesJazGuitar

  1. I see what you are getting at and it makes sense. My basic point is that often for icons like Monroe critics and hardcore classic movie fans (I believe this is true for music and the arts also) don't give icons enough credit for the good work they did because all the hype hero worship bugs them, and the fans that view the icon as their 'hero' don't have a realistic view of the icons work.

  2. Very good point. Those where the years that Warner should of given her great roles but instead still didn't understand what he had and of course Davis got the to pick the best parts before any of the the other Warner actresses.

  3. As I said I believe Monroe did some nice work and that she was indeed had talent and ability, but I don't see how one can use the term 'underrated' since to many, if not most, NON classic movie fans, she is often one of the only actresses from the classic ere they know. Now I would add Garbo and Audrey Hepburn to this 'list' also:


    Garbo for the reasons Johnbabe has pointed out and Hepburn because of her style and being a fashion icon. For example, being in LA and having a brother-in-law in the fashion business I happen to I know a few younger fashion designers. They all love Audrey, but they admit they have never seen any of her movies! They know her from photos. Same with Garbo and often Monroe.


    But if your point was that Monroe was underrated with regards to critics and hardcore classic movie fans than I can see that point (and maybe I'm one that doesn't give her, her due), but to non classic movie fans I meet or 'chat' with Monroe and Garbo are given may more credit than the sum of there work in my view, while greats like Olivia De Haviland, Barbara Stanwych (well expect they know her from TV!), and many others don't get their due.


    The classic actresses that have a good balance between being popular today with non classic fans and having the work to back it up are Bette Davis and Kate Hepburn. And I admit that I still haven't made up my mind about Crawford.

  4. I agree that Morse has a lot of that boyish charm even today. Well at least we can see him in Mad Men. I love that show and it is a lot like the 'How to Succeed,,,' since they are both set in the early 60s, and how it was to work in NYC during that time, how the working gal was treated etc..

  5. Yes happy birthday to Olivia. I have all the books written by Olivia and Joan (the one by Olivia - Every Frenchman has One is a good read), and most of the books written about them (e.g. Sisters explains a lot about their fight but it is a sad read for me since I love them both and wish they would kiss and make up!).


    The best sister pair in the biz!

  6. Olivia has always been my favorite, second only to Bette Davis (mainly because Davis had better roles during her early days and Olivia didn't get those type of roles until later and by the time she did she was not that interested in Hollywood and only did a movie every few years), but I would agree that The Heiress is the best performance by any actress.


    I'm so happy to see so many others see in Olivia what I have seen for years. I have the book The Films of Olivia De Havilland and I recommend it to all her fans.

  7. Of course I'm NOT saying that I believe a women or man has to be beautiful to be in show business, but sometimes people that are beautiful or have sex appeal but little talent (again, men or women), can become stars in show business.


    I noted that Lisa isn't beautiful but it didn't matter because she had a lot of ability.


    To me Lady Gaga isn't beautiful and so far I have yet to see much ability (mostly just a clone of Madonna). Ability is what counts but being beautiful sure doesn't hurt.

  8. Hey, I don't understand all the hype about Lady Gaga either. She is not good looking, at all, (that nose!) but of course any women with a nice figure that wears next to nothing can be made to look 'hot'. To me she is just a second rate Madonna. Of course this is just pop music where I feel the producer often contributes more to the end result than the star; e.g. Quincy Jones MJ. While Madonna is weak in certain areas she has stood the test of time and reinvented herself and that says a lot.


    20 years from now my guess is that Lady Gaga will be forgetten (but hey I said the same thing about Madonna!).

  9. Her long walk and not her acting?


    Monroe has some nice work but in my view she is known and remembered as a film icon more than as an actor. In fact this is a new thread I have been thinking about starting (can I change the title of this one, ha ha); Actors whose fame is bigger than their actual work. This would be interesting but it could get heated.


    Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Jun 30, 2010 2:52 PM

  10. Very valid points. I would also point out that for actors like Anne Shirley their movies are often not available on DVD and thus the only way one can enjoy their work is by networks like TCM. The big stars and icons have a lot of their work available on DVD; i.e. their fans can enjoy those movies anytime they wish since a 'true' (big) fan of an artist will typically have home DVDs of their favorite stars.

  11. Great pick of Cagney & Kennedy in CITY FOR CONQUEST. Kennedy really showed he could act and move people and that isn't easy when Cagney is also on the screen. Kennedy has always been one of my favorite 2nd tier actors (not really a character actor but not a major star above title actor either).

  12. Those are some very cool youtube links. Of course I love Django. Man that guy was ahead of his time and he had so much energy. Eddie Harris was a great entertainer for sure. Just goes to show that being a great musician isn't always required to be a great entertainer. Eddie was just flat out fun to watch.


    Diana Washington is one of the great singers that I feel doesn't get as much attention as she should. She is right up there will the other lady singers like Ella.


    Long live jazz. Give me a classic flim with great jazz and I'm in heaven!

  13. The topic her might make an interesting now thread; Depending on one's perspective one could say that this 'love' for Garbo is based a lot on hype and media spin instead of her actual work in movies. As you noted the Garbo brand is 'hot' and thus people us it to make a buck; i.e. to sell books, to draw people into festivals etc....


    Of course this doen't mean that Garbo or any artist that the media and fans decide is an icon (Monroe, Dean and Bogie come to mind) do not have merit. My personal view is that Garbo is a little over hyped while Monroe and Dean are way over hyped.

  14. I agree that you stated 'it' as a question and I tried to answer 'it' as a question. Thus I didn't call you immatureyoung but only those that believe 'it' (it being that fame is a measure of greatness). Since you don't, it doesn't apply to you, but sorry for any misunderstanding.


    Of course there isn't any 'universal agreement' and this is what I enjoy about CFU and other sites like this; It gives people a forum to discuss what is 'great' or not and to see if there is any 'universal agreement' (in a general sense). The discussion about Casablanca and Citizen Kane were along those lines. Casablanca is cleary one of the most popular movies of all time but Citizen Kane is listed as one of the greatest movies of all time while many find Casablanca to be just a nice formula picture. Thus many different perspectives.


    The agreement I have seen from most here from most CFU members is that being popular isn't a measure of greatness.

  15. All the character actors in Dark Passage were great and really made the movie. As much as I love the leads Bogie and Bacall were rather flat in the flim but the bit players along with the San Fran setting help the movie a lot. While Tom D'Andrea time on the screen is small to me the one in the cab is the best in the movie.

  16. I would hope that what you state as 'true' is anything but for most fans of the arts. If one is going to say someone is 'great' shouldn't it be based on their actual work? Now granted what you say is often how some fans view artists but to me that is the view of the young immature. But yes, some stars are labeled 'great' when their acutal work doesn't back it up; Monore comes to mind as well as James Dean (but of course there is a valid reason for his lack of work), but most of the stars listed as popular by CFU members like Grant, Davis, Bogie, Stanwyck, etc... have the work to back it up (well expect for maybe Flynn who is listed in the top 5 but I assume only because he was so damm handsome).

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