JamesJazGuitar

Hey, I didn't do too bad here! I have to admit I kind of pulled Roland out of a hat and at least I questioned the Gable choice (I should of guessed Flynn since he was as good looking but without the ears).

Hey, this isn't easy and it would of helped to know the year this was released. I think you're right about Powell and McLaglen, but if the guy on the far right is Gable why are the ears so small? Typically when Gable is draw for a laugh, they make his ears bigger (often super big!). But the face does match. As for the guy you say if Niven; Yea it could be him, but to me it looks like Gilbert Roland. This is why the year would help. If this was done in the 30s it is more likely to be someone other than Niven. As for the guy you couldn't name, my guess is Spencer Tracy, but that pipe kind of throws me off since a pipe implies an upper crust type of guy and I view Tracy as more down to earth.

Tom, I can tie The Big Sleep back to Moran and the original point you made. In the book The Big Sleep, Marlow is having an affair with Eddie Mars wife. She has a lot bigger part in the book. Thus again, Bacall knocks another actress out of the film, in that the plot of The Big Sleep was changed to focus on sexual tension between B & B instead of Marlow and Mrs. Mars. As I'm sure you know the original version of The Big Sleep (shown only to US troops overseas), had less B&B scenes. Warner asked Hawks to add more after they got married. So having Mrs. Mars be the only female that doesn't flirt with Marlow makes sense. It was done to get Mrs. Mars out of the room and thus out of the scene so Bacall could rescues Bogie and thus solidified their romance. (in the book Mrs Mars saves Marlow). If Bogie and Bacall didn't hit if off in To Have and Have Not, than maybe the actress that played Mrs Mars would of got a bigger part and that would of help propel her career. But instead she ends up in a similar boat like Dolores Moran. Another actress shot down by Bacall!

Yes, for most of is it was OZ as it will be for generations to come. The first 'old movie' I remember seeing as an adult was The Maltese Falcon. My mom's boyfriend was into Bogie and classic movies and since he control the TV watch this movie with them. From there I became a classic movie fan myself.

Not sure what you mean by 'allow sex and gore' since pre-code movies had a good amount of sex and gore. My view is that without the censors the movies in the 40s would of looked like the movies in the 70s. To me the problem with censorship wasn't that nudity or very violent scenes couldn't be shown but the unrealistic changes to the plots. Movie would of been more true to the books they were based on instead of whitewashed like they were after the code was put into place. For example, compare a pre-code movie TCM just had on, A Free Soul with the remake made under the code.

Yes it is common for people to have the 'before I was born' POV. I use to have that to but then I started to play guitar. At first like most guys I play the songs of my era. But as I got more into guitar and found I liked playing jazz I got into the jazz greats and than jazz history. Then I found out that most of the jazz standards I was playing came from those 'old movies' and thus I started to check those out. I do see this with young musicians I know. For example, many of them love The Beatles, Stones and other rock groups that were at their peak way before they were born. But those that don't play music are not as interested in hearing 'old' stuff.

I agree that Vickers was very good in The Big Sleep but it didn't lead to better roles for her. I have a wonderful Vickers promo still on my wall of fame. Most casual movie fans can guess who everyone on that wall is but I have yet to meet someone that says 'that is Martha Vickers'! Typically a studio will sell the rights for an actor that does pan out to another studio. I assume Moran was under contract. I wonder if they tried to sell the rights and there were no takers? I have seen her in the Davis movie made the year before and she did a fine job there. I sure that wasn't an easy movie for a very young gal to make since Davis and Hopkins really hated each other and thus there had to be a lot of tension on the set.

Tom, there is no way we really know why Moran didn't become a bigger star. Yea, what occured during To Have and Have Not was a set back but that shouldn't kill a career. So maybe Moran just lacked the ability. i.e. she just wasn't that good of an actress or she just wasn't interesting enough. Take someone else from the next Bogie Bacall movie, The Big Sleep. Dorothy Malone. She had a very small part but she made a very big impact. It would still take a few years before she made it big but she got there.

My guess is that when most people say they don't like classic movies (or just about anything), they have never really experienced what they say they don't like. I don't know how many times I have had someone tell me they don't like fish. Then I find out they had fish once as a kid! In order to say one doesn't like something they first have to spend a fair amount of time experiencing it.

Yea, most of the time you only agree with 98% of what I post! But really, I don't recall us having vastly different views on movies and other topics here. Even if that is the case I always find your post interesting and most of the time down right funny.

Storm Warning is the 50s movie I believe you mean. As for Ginger Rogers; Well I really like her 30s work, and not just the stuff with Fred. She was cute and funny and great at the wise crack. But I really don't enjoy what she did after that. Yea, maybe I'm shallow, but around 1942 or so I just don't like how she looks. i.e. her look no longer gets my heart raising. Maybe it was her hair style or the fact she put on a few pounds? But most of her 'it' factor is missing in my view. Plus I just don't find her 40s comedies that funny. Of course most 40s comedies don't compare to the ones made in the 30s but even the dramas she made, lack something or appear to forced. Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Jul 20, 2012 7:01 PM

Yes, Tom just a slight change of circumstances can have a major impact on the future. My understanding is that the original screenplay had most of the sexual tension between the Moran character and Bogie. Instead once they saw the rushes between Bogie and Bacall, scenes where changed. Thus Moran's character is only used a prop to increase the sexual tension between B & B. e.g. when Bogie carries Moran out after she faints. Bogie is checking her out and Bacall says 'trying to guess her weight'. Bogie returns with 'she is heavier than you think'. That banter shows the Bacall has a thing for Bogie. So instead of a Moran trying to flirt with Bogie instead she plays the loyal wife of the Frenchman.

Mayo was Bogie's second wife and they meet while making this picture. The picture reflects how Mayo was! Marked Women is a very good Bette Davis picture with fine support from Bogie in, at the time, was an unusual non gangster role as a DA. This was the movie that made me interested in Bette Davis. I was already a fan of the Warner guys (Bogie, Cagney, Flynn), but after this one I become a big fan of Davis and explored my softer side in movies like Now Voyager etc... Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Jul 19, 2012 5:16 PM

I kind of disagree as it relates to starting a new threat when there has been at least 25 of them all related to the same complaint. I read the initial post and it was written in such a way I couldn't understand it. First I believed 70 - 80 meant they wanted to see movies from those years, but than others implied it meant movies 70 - 80 years old which would be from 30 - 50 or so. Also one could make a similar point in a positive manner; e.g. I would like to see more pre-code and silent movies etc... But hey we all have are own style.

Funny you used the term 'more on the money'. Casting Marjorie Main as Juliet would be wouldn't of generated 'more of the money' for MGM than Shear. MGM did not cast the film to be true to how the play was presented hundred of years ago since that would be folly as it relates to why a studio produces pictures.

I think 'In A Lonely Place' is Bogie's second best performance but either way I say it is spliting hairs; i.e. very close between the two movies.

'My decision'? You mean you prediction, right? Or do you have some inside decision making pull at TCM? I think not.

Well we think alike. I decided to take 37 over 32 but I could go either way.

I don't think the age of the cast impacts the quality of the movie as much as you do. You mentioned some replacement actors (e.g. Turner), and to me a movie with her at that time when she was so inexperienced and in my view not a good actor, would of been worst. So yea it would be been better if the actors in the movie were a lot younger but I don't know if in the 30s MGM could of gotten actors that were teens or in their early 20s to play those parts that were good enough actors to pull it off. Plus if they did those actors would NOT of had the box office draw of the actors MGM did cast. Remember the primary goal for a studio to make a movie is too make money. This version from MGM loss over a million dollars even with those stars.

I guess a lot of people have 6 fingers on their hands since the range they mention includes 6 years! Man this is a hard one. I would go with 33 - 37 so I get the end of pre-code and man of the great 30s comedies, Thin Man, and other movies from that period. Hey, if I'm on an island I want more comedy than noir.

I watched all of the Leslie Howard movies on July 17th and I really enjoyed them. I had seen Romeo and A Free Soul before but not in a while and it was good to see them again. I even stayed up late (at least I'm on the west coast so it wasn't too late), to see the last 2. I agree with all your comments but what I also found interesting was that they showed the MGM movies and than the Warner Bro ones, Outbound and Captured, both with Douglas Fairbanks. Two studios couldn't be more different in the 30s than MGM and Warner. Howard was able to 'fit' within each studio's 'vibe' equally well and as noted made his character believable. Just goes to show how great of an actor he was. As for A Free Soul, this is the type of plot that could only be 'true' to the story as a pre-code movie (or if it was made today). I do admit I notice that white gown. I kind of felt like a peeping tom (not that I would know how one of them feels of course!), so hearing others saw what I saw reduce some of my guilt. Yes, Leslie Howard clearly deserved being SOTM and we still have two more weeks to go. Next week we have two movies he was nominated for best actor for and the week after his WWII movies as well as one of his best The Scarlet Pimpernel.

Yes, Flynn did look very good in the movie as well as Knowles, but I still find Olivia the best looking one in the picture! Next week I'll be at Lone Pine where this film was shot.

Johnbabe, I really do believe that when one spoofs someone that is really great (at the top in their profession), that it is an honor and not done to disrespect that person. For example, say I was to spoof a rock band. If I spoof the Beatles than I'm honoring them as being one of the best rock bands. If I spoof the Monkey's than I'm just being mean!

Based on all of the material I have read 'noir' refers to the nature of the film's characters and the story in general (over all mood if you will), and thus a film noir can be a color film. For example, Leave Her to Heaven is considered a film noir by many sources (e.g. listed in the book Film Noir (Ward Silver). Of course I have had others tell me 'noir' is defined more by the lighting, use of props (e.g. Venetian blinds, ceiling fans), camera angles, then character development, plot or mood, and that a color film can not be a noir by definition. Thus we are back to what is 'true' noir or not and this is when I start to check out. For those interested in this debate the gangster noir thread under genres has volumes about this.

I see your point, but if they no longer accept and read scripts for potential movies than one could say they are retired. i.e. that they will NOT be accepting any more roles, regardless of the conditions. So if one's agent sends out notices to those in the industry saying 'please do not send us any more scripts for review' that is meaningful. It tells the industry to not waste their time.