JamesJazGuitar
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Posts posted by JamesJazGuitar
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1 hour ago, Moe Howard said:
Complete version 1, complete version 2, etc. As in "DIrector's Cut" vs, Theatrical/Original release. Differing versions are 'complete'.
Then you have Lost Horizon situations where portions are lost due to decay and no complete versions available.
Not to be confused with edits made at some point by god knows who or why like in Three Days of the Condor and The Silencers. These superfluous cuts should be documented.
What you are calling "complete version 1, complete version 2 etc." I would define as "intact"; I.e. unaltered.
Anyhow, another good example is the two The Big Sleep versions; the released-only-overseas-too-US-troops version and the one most people know, the post-war, post Bogie\Bacall getting married version, where Hawks filmed additional scenes, re-filmed others (e.g. two different actresses play Mrs. Eddie Mars), and edited out scenes (one of my gal Martha Vickers!).
TCM showed both version back-to-back a few years back. For those that haven't seen the limited-release version, I recommend it. The focus is more on Marlowe and the crimes and less on the Bogie\Bacall romantic angle.
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For tapping on Guitar here is Stanley Jordan. My wife heard this and said this was a great duet version, not realizing that this is just one dude, with no overdubs. Using tapping Jordan plays the melody with one hand and the bass\harmonic parts with the other. I play Georgia a lot, so when I told her this is just one guy and before she could say anything, I said: and don't ask me why I don't play it like that!!!
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1 hour ago, SansFin said:
I am relatively sure that they show the best prints available.
Are they to not show a movie because the only print which they can lease was edited for television years ago?
I have seen that TCM plans to air: Blade Runner: The Final Cut (1982) as part of the neo-noir theme this month. There are many versions of this movie. There was the International version, the version released to theaters in America and a Workprint which received some circulation. The version released on video tape prior to 1993 contain scenes not in the theatrical version. A "Director's Cut" which was neither approved nor liked by the director was released also. "The Final Cut" version is actually a version released in: 2007 and contains edits and scenes unlike any other version.
Which would you consider a: "complete" print acceptable for airing?
I assume the question here is rhetorical. My POV is that there is no such concept as a "complete" print.
Different ones, as you point out with Blade Runner, but it would be folly for anyone to say which one is the "complete" one.
I guess one could argue that a version that has all the scenes, intact, as found in every other version, but includes some additional scenes, not shown in any other version, is the most "complete". But I would still never use the term "complete" when discussing different versions.
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3 minutes ago, Shank Asu said:
A little off topic, but over Christmas in the UK I watched Robin Hood Prince of Thieves on broadcast TV and it was a completely different film. New scenes, old scenes edited differently and new plot points (the witch is the Sherriff's mother). Guessing its an issue of what rights the UK has for the film.
This from Wiki (initial US release in 1991 was a 143 minute version):
A 155-minute extended cut of the film was released on home media in 2009. The extended cut shows in detail the conspirators' plot to steal the throne from King Richard, as well as further exploring the relationship between the Sheriff and Mortianna. In one scene, Mortianna explains that she killed the true George Nottingham as a baby and replaced him with her own infant son, revealing that she is in fact the Sheriff's real mother. Also included are scenes which show Mortianna instructing Nottingham to remove the tongue of John Tordoff's scribe character, forcing him to communicate via chalk-board in subsequent scenes. Nottingham, however, only pretends he removed the Scribe's tongue as the Scribe later provides spoken directions to Robin and Azeem when they pursue the kidnapped Marian
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2 hours ago, chaya bat woof woof said:
Also, I'm afraid to watch Top Chef because it is the finale tonight and I want Shoda (sp?) to win
So did you end up watching Top Chef? I did. I wanted the Japanese guy to win. Since I don't know if you did watch it, I won't give away who won.
As for Guy and Giada: I agree with you about Guy. E.g. if he was in a contest like Top Chef or his own Tournament of Champions he would be out in the first round or two.
But I have seen Giada on Iron Chef and she could hold her own in such completion type cooking. This is unlike most Italians chefs! Generally Italians are not known for their time management skills. My wife, who is Italian, agrees, as well as her mom, and the many Italian chefs we know. Oh, well, the end result is always great.
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7 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:
As they were ... originally edited?
I don't know if "originally" works because that implies there is such as thing as an "original" version. E.g. the "original" one for US release or the "original" one for release in Britain?
I guess that was my overall point; for clarity, when discussing a specific film, it helps if one is very specific as to what version one is talking about. This is especially necessary when discussing films like A Farewell to Arms and many other pre-code films; E.g. what Wiki had: unseen since the original theatrical run in 1932 and long thought to be lost)
PS: and how Ben and TCM presented that version of A Farewell to Arms is a good example that TCM does get-it-right (knows what version they are showing and explains that to viewers).
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12 minutes ago, sewhite2000 said:
I think TCM typically has a pretty good record of showing films as they were intended to be released. I recently watched A Farewell to Arms with my mom on Amazon Prime, and it was quite different from the version I remembered watching on TCM some years ago. This version arranged the scenes to indicate Gary Cooper and Helen Hays didn't have sex until after they were married, and it was missing altogether a scene that made a strong impression on me from my original viewing, of Hayes borderline hysterically laugh-crying after they've had sex for the first time, clearly while unmarried. Either my memory is really faulty, or what I watched on TCM was the original version and the one on Amazon Prime was post-Code revisions.
To me saying "as they were intended to be released", is confusing. My example of Mata Hari is why; both the pre-code and post-code versions were released by MGM. I.e. MGM intended to release both versions. The same is true for versions made-for-release overseas versus those versions for US audiences.
As for Farewell to Arms; Your memory is sound! Read this:
This is the original ending of the film when released to international audiences in 1932. Some prints for American audiences had a happy ending, where Catherine did not die, and some were ambiguous; some theaters were offered a choice.[6] The censors were concerned about more than just the heroine's death.[7][8] Versions proliferated when a much more powerful Motion Picture Production Code got hold of the picture before various re-releases to film and television, not to mention the effects of a change of ownership to Warner Bros. and lapse into the public domain. This is why film critic and Turner Classic Movies host Ben Mankiewicz, after an airing of the original version, summed up the film's history as "confusing."
According to TCM.com: " ‘A Farewell to Arms’ originally ran 89 minutes, and was later cut to 78 minutes for a 1938 re-issue. The 89-minute version (unseen since the original theatrical run in 1932 and long thought to be lost) was released on DVD in 1999 by Image Entertainment, mastered from a nitrate print located in the David O. Selznick vaults." [9]
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20 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:
you know I try to be agreeable as I possibly can because almost no one wants to agree with me because I'm viewed as some sort of a pest and when I am right, like I am here, nobody wants to acknowledge it...
so lets see if I got this right. we can't even expect tcm to know if their movie prints are whole or cut up?
gimme a break. of course they should know. they're these supposed unmatched film experts who know everything like if a mouse farted underneath the movie camera during the closeup on the wicked witch of the west's shoes.
I agree with you here (hey, there is always a first time!); Of course a network like TCM, where their entire focus is movies, should know what version they are leasing.
There is only one dependency here; do those that own a film (e.g. a studio, Disney, etc...), know what version(s), they have to lease?
One would think they would; E.g. the 1931 Garbo film Mata Hari: There is the initial 1931 released, pre-code version. But the film was re-released after the Production code was enforced in July 1934 and MGM had to cut the film to get it passed by the censors. Therefore there are two "legit" studio released versions.
When TCM shows a film like Mata Hari they should know which of these two they have leased!
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I just watched The Secret Fury (1950) on MOVIES-TV as part of their Film Noir Thursday. Great cast but only a so-so film. The film features Claudette Colbert, Robert Ryan, and Paul Kelly. It was directed by Mel Ferrer. Mel's bro, Jose is in the film in an uncredited role and actually my favorite scene in the film. This is a back-room type club with a jazz combo. The actor who played Colbert husband (or so we are told), was Dave Barbour; Perry Lee's husband and a fine jazz guitarist. Thus the reason that was my favorite scene. We get to see Dave play a solo on a niffy hollow body, single coil, jazz guitar.
I just don't see Colbert being a good fit in such a film, especially with Ryan as her good-guy fiancé.
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Big fan of Leslie Caron; A very solid combination of talent, beauty, charm and style. She has a way of pulling at my heart strings more so than any of the other actor\dancers of the golden era of musicals. Films like Lili "work" for me (without getting too sentimental), because of her charm and lightness of being.
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2 hours ago, Shank Asu said:
I see your point but i still think my opinion of bringing a celebrity in cheapens it. Saying Trebek was already well known before hosting Jeopardy isn't really relevant. He was known for hosting game shows, he wasn't a celebrity.
I guess it all comes down to how one defines a "celebrity". Take Wheel of Fortune host Pat Sajak; He was a weatherman before Merv Griffin hired him to host the game show.
Few weatherman \ weather-host become "celebrities" but some, like Dave Letterman become major celebrities.
Your last sentence implies a game show host isn't a celebrity, but I believe that is too narrow of a POV; one may not start out as a celebrity, but a host of a well known (well rated for it's market), long running game show becomes a celebrity. E.g. Sajak and Vanna White are celebrity since they have been on T.V. for decades. (Wiki calls them T.V. personalities).
Of course there is no right-wrong take here. I just lean towards a broader view of who is a celebrity than you.
As for who should host Jeopardy: I have no idea, and would need to see someone in-action (e.g. host for a few weeks), before I could decide I liked them for the position.
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What I wondered about is if MGM had to pay the Lewis Stone's estate for the use of his image in the film Andy Hardy Comes Home.
While researching this I found out how Stone died of a heart attack: (Wiki):
"He reportedly suffered a heart attack while chasing away some neighborhood kids who were throwing rocks at his garage. Another published report states that on that date Stone and his third wife were watching television when they heard a racket in the back yard. When he investigated, Stone found lawn furniture once again floating in the pool and glimpsed three or perhaps four teenage boys running toward the street. Stone gave chase despite his wife's warning not to exert himself".
So did Stone die chasing neighborhood Andy Hardy type kids? Oh, the irony of life.
I hadn't seen Andy Hardy Comes Home (I have seen all the others in the series); Interesting that Joey Forman was in the film. I only knew him from Get Smart and his role as Harry Hoo, famous Chinese detective. I never knew Forman and Rooney had such a connection (Wiki):
He first attracted attention in Las Vegas as the opening act for Mickey Rooney and also Rooney's straight man. He also co-starred in Mickey Rooney's 1954–1955 NBC sitcom The Mickey Rooney Show: Hey, Mulligan, as Mickey's best friend.
Did Buck Henry and others creators of Get Smart get the idea for Harry Hoo from Rooney and Breakfast at Tiffany's.
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19 hours ago, dante said:
maybe one of you can help me with my next task. Isn't the noir music wonderful and so powerful as to even improve a film noir movie? well my problem is I am attempting to find film noir music on long playing vinyl and I am having a difficult time. found one but it is on backorder and may never come to fruition. a perfect saxophone piece in a smoke filled gangster hang out makes my day.
As a jazz musician and big film noir fan, I have to say that jazz isn't featured as much in noir as "advertised". Most of the music was still the standard orchestra music created by a studio's musical director and most traditional. There are some examples of good jazz in noirs in the 40s (E.g. D.O.A.), but it wasn't until the 50s or so that crime\noir films really started to use jazz music as a plot device and where jazz musicians were hired to create a score just for the film; E.g. The Sweet Smell of Success and even here there is a mix of the standard type of score with an original jazz score:
The film score was composed, arranged and conducted by Elmer Bernstein, but the picture also featured jazz themes performed and recorded by the Chico Hamilton Quintet. The music was published and copyrighted through producers Harold Hecht and Burt Lancaster's own music publishing company
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1 hour ago, ElCid said:
Wife and I just watched two Joseph Cotton "C movies." Baron Blood and Lady Frankenstein on Shout Factory (Tubi). Guess he needed the money.
I don't know if I would assume Cotton "needed the money". Some people just love to work in their profession.
Here is all I could find related to this - a comment from Cotton: "I was in a lot of junk", he admitted later. "I get nervous when I don't work."[
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Julie London was in a few crime\noir films in the 50s: The Fat Man (1951) and Crime Against Joe (1956).
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Kathleen Crowley; On right now, on ME-TV in Perry Mason!
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2 minutes ago, Moe Howard said:
Seems like she would have a pretty good idea about Burr. It's indicated that he's a frequent lurker in the switchboard room and has had at least one of the girls in his studio posing. And girls talk.
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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:
What is gained is he IS honest with her, which is important. He sets her free. He doesn't want her to keep on expecting him to come back and marry her. I think they were engaged, he's not just a boyfriend. So he owes it to her to let her know he's met someone else he'd rather marry and is breaking the engagement. If he hadn't written her and let her know that, she'd be wasting her time waiting for him to return to her and marry her, which was never going to happen.
I don't actually think he was a cad. The film suggests they were engaged because they'd known each other since they were kids, maybe they just assumed they should get married. Maybe he'd never dated anyone else. He met someone else, fell for her, and that was that. Stuff happens.
If you're talking about Norah's ex-boyfriend; Uh, he informed her, thus he is NOT a cad. Again: " they just cheat but never officially break-up with a gal.
As you note; he didn't do that.
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37 minutes ago, Dargo said:
Rebecca is a great film to be sure, BUT I can not believe that there would be that many Millennials who would go gaga over any movie that's as ladened with the amount of dialogue in it as it has, and to say nothing about the little amount of action scenes in it.
C'mon now, YOU know how these kids are today, don't YA?! Too much talk and not enough action is pretty much anathema to 'em.
(...and thus the reason I say start the youngins out watching something by Hitch with some action in it...yep, NBNW would be the one I'd choose to sit their little uninitiated butts in front of first!)
NBNW is a sound choice but I would still select The Birds. NBNW's plot could be too complex for some and The Birds' plot is so simple anyone can follow it. In fact one could say The Birds really has no plot (other than Birds get angry), and after that first gull attack, most of the followings scenes are action scenes of various ways the birds get angry.
In NBNW the mistaken identity alone could fool people; E.g. which guy is the real George Kaplan???? (uh, wake up kid,,,, there is no George Kaplan!!!).
The Birds has no macguffins: (well unless one views the entire concept of birds-gone-wild as a macguffin). NBNW has macguffin all over it.
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34 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:
That's a shame. Those are men who deserve what they get. Norah will probably be better off with Casey Mayo. Though I would really question a man who believed Norah, when she claimed to be "her friend."
Yes, indeed that is shame. How do these cads sleep at night! As for Norah and Casey Mayo; I don't see that romance going very far. Will Casey really give up chasing the gals now that he has meet Norah? I just don't see it. Mayo won't write Norah a Dear Norah letter. Instead she will read about his latest romance in his column when having her morning coffee. At least she has good gal friends to soften yet another blow to her self esteem.
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2 hours ago, txfilmfan said:
As far as being self-righteous, that's why they're called The Untouchables. That was a nickname given to them in the 1930s. It is not just the title of the TV series. This was a group of agents working for the Bureau of Prohibition. At the time, corruption within police units was fairly common. Ness recruited a group that were seen to be incorruptible, and thus given the name The Untouchables. The Chicago mafia tried and failed to bribe them.
As far as stopping people from drinking, that was their job. The Bureau's main function was to stop the sale and consumption of alcohol.
This group only existed from 1930-32. Prohibition was repealed in 1933, and agents in the Bureau then focused on tax evasion (the so-called "revenuers" the hillbilly moonshiners worried about)
Uh, of course I was aware of everything you mention here: The show, plot lines, etc... reflect the point in time when the USA had prohibition. I get all that, but I still can't stand the Ness character, and I'll continue to root for some of the bad guys.
E.g. John Banner (Sergeant Schult) played a German brew master that had come to the USA. He claimed he was making zero-alcohol beer but of course he wasn't.
Here is a basically decent guy, who was a master at a certain age-old craft going back centuries, and all Ness cares about is putting him in prison.
I was pulling for Ness to be put into Stalag 13, with Schult as his guard!
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11 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:
There are a lot of great character actors, movie stars, and to be movie stars on "The Untouchables", but Nehemiah Persoff was at the top.
He made a historical character of Al Capone's accountant, Jake "greasy thumb" Guzik.
Persoff's characterization of the gangster Waxey Gordon was particularly brutal and vitriolic in his targeting of hatred against Eliot Ness.
Among the greats, Nehemiah was one of the best.
The Untouchables is on ME-TV now and I find myself watching it, but only for those character actors and movie stars that I love from the movies of the 30s - 50s.
I really can't stand the Eliot Ness character; just too self righteous for my taste. Also since many cases revolve around booze, I find the crusading cops out to stop people from drinking beer and wine to be silly.
But as you note: see those high quality actors is a treat. So I watch and root for the bad guys! (who of course never win).
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5 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:
Poor Anne in that movie. That's rough--spending your birthday alone, building it up to be this romantic reading of your boyfriend's love letters, and then him breaking up with you. I was trying to figure out if there was a female equivalent to a Dear John letter. Dear Norah works.
Many men are such cads they just cheat but never officially break-up with a gal. Their POV being: What is gained by writing a Dear Norah letter? (other than one's self respect for being honest).
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on svengoolie tonite
in General Discussions
Posted
Until I was about 40 I always viewed June Lockhart as a mother figure and not as an attractive woman. When Lassie was on I wasn't into girls yet (they had kooties), so my attention was on the dog.
When Lockhart was on Lost in Space, Angela Cartwright was why I watched that show as a 12 year old (one of my first loves).
Later on I did see June in classic T.V. Westerns; E.g. Have Gun, Will Travel, where she played a doctor that wasn't accepted by the locals because, well, she was a woman. She was on Wagon Train etc... It was a few years later before I realized she was the daughter of Gene Lockhart and that she was a child actor; Hey, there is June in All That and Heaven Too, Sergeant York, Meet Me in St. Louis etc..
June was a good actor and attractive woman.