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Everything posted by JamesJazGuitar

  1. Yes, I was confused about Jackie until I read your post. That for the clarity. Again comments like 'and seemed blissfully happy' are at the heart of the 'if you could ask one question'; Are these public people telling the public how they really feel or not? Of course there is no way to know and at the end of the day it doesn't really matter; what we have is the film legacy of a great actress. I'll just close with this: Even Bogie questioned whether Kate was over playing her had when during the filming of The Afircan Queen Kate would say that everything was delightfull!
  2. In the movie isn't Bonnie Blue Butler shown as a baby also? I only ask because many decades ago a co-worker told me their brother was Bonnie Blue Butler as a baby. They said that a boy was used to play the baby girl since at that age no one would notice the gender. I don't know if they were pulling my leg or not OR maybe their brother was one of the other babies? The co-worker did mention that they got to go to the annual GWTW parties and that he had meet De Havilland et all.
  3. I have no trouble believing that a lot of women "could be satisfied with an arrangement like that", I just have trouble believing that Kate, based on all the hype about her, is one of those women. Again I see the term 'works' is used. To me the term 'works' isn't a very positive term. Ok it 'worked' but was it really what she wanted? Are you saying that JK also had no regrets? That the way JFK behaved was A-OK with Jackie? These women (like Hillary), were strong women with more character than their mates, and yes, they did make it work. But yes, I do feel that an ind
  4. I really don't see how my values have anything to do with this discussion. I'm NOT judging Kate's actions. The only point I have here is this: do people believe Kate when she says it all played out just like she wanted it to? Again, I have a hard time believing her based on my understanding of events (e.g. her actions during the filming of Women of The Year), while most people appear to take her at her word. To me she looks a lot like Hillary Clinton; Thus I would ask both Kate and Hillary simliar questions. For all I know both would say that wouldn't ha
  5. So what do you think about the core of the discussion with regards to the arangement Kate and Tracy had? I.e. Do you believe the arangement was just as Kate wanted it and that she wouldn't have had it any other way? OR was Kate putting up a good front to protect her ego?
  6. I guess it all come down to if one really believes "it worked for years for all three of them". By 'works' each person in the triangle settled for something less from each other but we should assume that is just how each of them wanted it. This arangement lasted many years so it would appear that is how they wanted it. You are correct that I'm viewing this from my romantic POV and that this arangement would NOT of 'worked' for me (I wouldn't of been happy being in the role of any of these 3). I never really questioned this triangle until a few weeks ago when I read how Kat
  7. It isn't that I feel Tracy had 'fun' but again, can't we agree that the way this' all played out was done according to the way Tracy wanted it? If that is the case than the two women in his life decided to compromise for his sake and I don't define that as independent behavior from either of them. But I do understand the case you are making; That Kate was so unique and so indepedent that this 'stange' relationship with Tracy was just the type of relationship she wanted. OK, that is the million dollar question; Is that really the case? You buy into that, and I find that a
  8. I see that I'm not communicating well; Their relation had to be hidden from the public and was. Everyone in Hollywood knew but because of the power of the studios the media didn't report on the aware. Thus most of the public was keep in the dark at the time.
  9. I'm also a big fan of Jerry and love his movies, both with Dean and most of the ones he made the next 5 or so years after they broke up. My favorite is Bus Boy a unique movie since there isn't a lot of diaglog and most of the laughs are solo gags by Jerry.
  10. I wouldn't view They Drive By Night as a noir because it really isn't about the dark side of life. Yes, there is a murder but that is a crime of passion (Lupino killing her husband so she could be with Raft), but crime isn't core to the plot. I.e. the trucking business that is core to the plot doesn't have a mob element to the story. The noir elements in the movie are all centered around Lupino but her actions are driven by love which isn't a typical movite for a femme fatale (Leave her to Heaven being an exception of course). Of course Walsh's next movie High Sierra, again with
  11. Well those that write these book might say that people that do NOT write books are bound to include a view films that are not really noir movies into their home-grown listings! (ha ha). As we have discussed what is a noir is subjective and thus any listing will differ. As you noted this is especially true with the movies made in early 1940s since 'noir' wasn't even a concept when these movies were released. If these same movies were released during the height of the noir era, it is very likely they would be considerd noir movies by these 'experts'. But regardless of the source w
  12. Ok since you and LoveFilmNoir asked and I have time now I'll provide some more info from the source book Film Noir: First I did miss Claire Trevor! She also has 7 noirs, while Windsor and Totter have 6. I also left off Lizabeth Scott with 7 - thus 5 ladies with 7; Trevor, Scott, Stanwyck, Grahame, Lupino) Trevor's 7 are: Born To Kill Crack-Up Johnny Angel Key Largo Murder, My Sweet Raw Deal Street of Chance Stanwyck: Clash by Night Crime of Passion Double Indemnity File on Thelma Jordon Sorry, Wrong number Strange Love of Martha Ivers Witness to Murder
  13. Well of course I'm making some assumptions about Kate and this is why it relates to the 'if you could ask her one question'. I would like to ask her one as long as she would really give a truthful answer. Kate has been asked the question many times in her life, especially after Tracy died (and the relationship was discussed more openly); "were you really satisfied with your relationship with Tracy (as it was played out)". As you and others have noted Kate has basically said 'yes,, wouldn't have it any other way'. Ok, I admit I find that hard to believe. Again my reasons are
  14. Can people indicate what source they are using for 'confirmed' noirs. Like I said with my post about Ryan and Mitchum, I'm using Film Noir by Ward Silver (but mine is a first edition so maybe they added more movies in later editions?). My edition only list 4 noirs for Joan Bennet: Hollow Triumph, The Reckless Moment, Scarlet Street, and Woman in the Window. To me Man Hunt isn't a noir but then again the book Film Noir defines a noir as an american art form so that leaves out British films by definition. Tierney only has 5 noirs: Laura, Leave Her to Heaven, Night and the City
  15. I guess you didn't read the many prior posts where I state that I was NOT talking about marriage. I was talking about having a solid and fullfilling relationship with another human being. Thus you assume, incorrectly, that I have conventional ideas with regards to marriage. This is not the case. I'm agnostic so I do NOT view marriage from a religious POV (it is a legal contract only in my view) and I don't care if people get married or not, but I do admit that I don't support living a lie. My point (again), is that if Kate ONLY had a relationship with Tracy all those years t
  16. You are so right that Ernest Borgnine's character would of keep Mercedes McCambridge's character in check!
  17. To me all we have to 'judge' an artist is their work. Bette Davis being the queen of the Warner's lot did indeed get first pick of all the material and of course this impacted what roles the other female Warner contract players got; De Havilland, Lupino, Sheridan, and later on Mayo. But as much as I respect the talents of these other women (e.g. De Havilland is my second favorite actress behind Davis), I'm not going to say the many great roles that Davis has left us with would of been 'just as good' if anyone of these others did them. My gut tells me no, but the bottom li
  18. Great point about the production code. I believe this impacted many noir endings but I would have to review the original source material to be sure on any specific movie. The Blue Dahlia would of been better in my view if the war vet had been the killer. He had a plate in his head and this caused him major headaches and due to his war trama, it would of sent a message about the impact of war on men instead of the typical ending it had; the corrupt house dick.
  19. I know that many people and critics don't feel The FountainHead is a successful picture but Neal has something in that picture that I have yet to see from any actress. Just something about her looks and in her eyes. Now I never viewed her as a great beauty like Oberon, Bergman, Garner, or Kelly but in this picture, she just does something to my system! The second half drags a little but those first meetings between Neal and Cooper are something unique. I guess I love a crazy broad!
  20. I also love "Meet John Doe" but many people felt the ending wasn't good since was too much sugar. I tend to agree and if the movie was done after the war he would of jump and died and to me that would of been a better ending. Why? Well WWII didn't rid the world of the "bad guys" but only replaced them with another set. The ending as written makes it appear that all will be well when it clearly wasn't. Now of course some might say that Doe's death would of been too much, but the movie is both a comedy (mostly all in the first half) and a drama (mostly all in the second half
  21. I also love "Meet John Doe" but many people felt the ending wasn't good since was too much sugar. I tend to agree and if the movie was done after the war he would of jump and died and to me that would of been a better ending. Why? Well WWII didn't rid the world of the "bad guys" but only replaced them with another set. The ending as written makes it appear that all will be well when it clearly wasn't. Now of course some might say that Doe's death would of been too much, but the movie is both a comedy (mostly all in the first half) and a drama (mostly all in the second half
  22. Well now you made me have to count! Based on the appendix from the book Film Noir - Ward Silver, Robert Ryan is in 12 noirs and Mitchum is in 13 noirs (for both of them some of these were not 'lead' parts, like Crossfire which they were both in). For character actors Cook has 13 roles but Ray Teal has 14. He was in movies like The Asphalt Jungle, Decoy, Road House, and Rouge Cop.
  23. The classic noir era is said to run from 40 41 until 58 59, but of course there are many different views of this. Of course 40 41 isn't when the first noir was done, but to many, the start of an era doesn't take place with one movie but a set of movies. The same is true about the end of the cycle; Of course there were noirs after 59, but instead of multiple noirs being released by different studios, one just gets 1 or 2 every other year or so during the 60s and it tappers off even more after that. e.g. Chinatown is a noir but I would define it as a homage to the era. Be be
  24. This is a good topic here in what is camp and what is just drama that doesn't reflect actual reality but isn't camp (i.e. clearly wasn't designed as camp). Take one of the most common things in westerns: The gunfight. 90% of them in very serious westerns are not realistic based on what I saw on the history channel. First most of the time the two guys were only 10 feet or so away from each other and not the longer distances most movies have. Take a movie like High Noon; One could say the entire plot is a farce. Really if a Quaker gal can shoot a guy in the back than any
  25. According to the book Film Noir by Silver Ward White Heat is a noir more than just a gangster picture because it has 'a visual character appropriate to the (noir) cycle', 'the tone of individual scenes is alternately stark, humorous, violent, brooding and finally, prowerful" and "the strategy of inducing the audience to accept a psychotic protagonist,,, is intuitively modern". The book mentions the conventional sequences but these are offset by "the darker scenes, which focus on the Cody, Verna, Big Ed and Ma and which are the core of the narrative".
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