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Everything posted by jamesjazzguitar

  1. Sorry I don't understand your point or what you are trying to communicate when you say that there is 'no real Genre for Film Noir'. Are you saying there is a real genre for western, or comedy etc..? As soon as one uses the term 'real' I find folly. Again, who defines what the real genres are and what the criteria is for these real gernes? Noir is a genre just like westerns, drama, romantic comedy, etc in that a genre has certain characterizes, BUT, there is wiggle room related to these characterizes in any genre. There is also a degree of overlap. I saw this in the discussion about screwball comedies and romantic comedies. I believe one can do what you are doing with Noir for any genre; Come up with specific criteria and then say these are movies are the true to this criteria and those that are not. I do find all of this interesting but it has noting to do with determining what is real or not unless a specific 3rd party source is named (e.g. AFI defines a western as ,,,,,,), and even then this is just the opinion of one group.
  2. Yes, welcome to the site and happy new year. I have been here a few years now and I love it. First one learns a lot about classic movies. Now compared to the average Joe I'm an expert of films from the 30 - 60 but once I got here I found a lot of people with more knowledge than me. So one learns a lot about movies they were NOT aware of, or gets insight into a film they have seen. Second everyone has an opinion. So it is interesting to heard what other classic movie fans like or dislike. Yea, like any family we have disagreements but typically they are keep under control.
  3. I'm sure you are aware that people here just like to make over the top statements with no basis of truth. Comments like "TCM only mostly show Post 1960 movies" or "all post 1980 movies are garbage" etc... I really don't think doing research would help, since I'm assuming the poster knows they are posting over the top statements; i.e. they do NOT really believe what they are posting, but only use terms like 'mostly' or 'all' to push their point. Sadly this is a very common method people use in discussion, polices especially. They wish to be heard and feel using over stated terms is more likely to be heard. Often I just ignore those terms and try to focus on what I believe they are trying to communicate. e.g. that TCM shows too many post 1960 movies or that a majority of post 1980 movies are garbage. I'm not sure they wish to be "pleasantly surprised" by facts; they just want to be angry and heard. But keep up the effort. Maybe some of it will stick.
  4. I'm somewhat surprised to see anyone remember Yes. I like the band and they were a transition band for me - taking me from rock to jazz a few decades ago. Their songs are not easy to play.
  5. I don't think that dress would last long in the wild, wild west but it sure is nice to look at.
  6. I would be very surprised if films like That's Entertainment is causing you to neglect the other gems that were produced in the same period. It clearly didn't cause me to neglect the other movies MGM created during the golden era or musicals by other studios and based on your knowledge of classic movies I'm sure it didn't either. Frankly I fault those that let marketing drive their behavior than the ones doing the marketing, especially in the Internet era where anyone with the will to seek information can find it. As for the movies themselves the main thing I found interesting is when they showed takes from actors that were not in the final film.
  7. Well my view is that The Thin Man Goes Home is the weakest of the 6. Another Thin Man does have too many characters, many good ones, grossly underutilized (e.g. Ruth Hussy). To me this just added too much confusion. But the kid did distract from the fun. I have seen Song of The Thin Man get a bad rap and continuing the so called general decline of the series but I don't agree with that POV. To me Song is #3. Of course I'm the jazz man and thus I like the music but I also like Wynn and Meadows and of course the movie has the noir icon Gloria Grahame. Plus the plot isn't too much 'all over the place'. But the kid is back but to a lot less of a degree.
  8. Well it looks like I was wrong if the term co-staring was really used for Bond in The Searchers. I'm surprised Wayne's contract would allow that. Of course Ford loved to pick on Wayne so I wonder if that has something to do with it. I can see Hunter getting a co-staring tag but not anyone else in the film.
  9. Well by definition a co-star is someone that gets first billing ranking; e.g. Libel Lady where Tracy and Powell are co-stars. Generally if one is NOT listed either prior to the title of the movie or in the first screen after the title they are not the star of the movie. They are listed in the following screen as a supporting player. Depending on their rank or contact they may get a bigger font on the supporting player screen but still they are supporting players. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. For example, when some of the major classic stars of the 30s - 50s played in movie of the 60s or 70. e.g. Stanwyck in Walk On The Wild Side; In these cases they are listed last with some type of special caption. I for one don't know how to classily an actor that get this type of billing. Generally I'm just happy to see a classic star in the movie.
  10. Well of course Dr Strangelove is a comedy. There are so many over the top lines and insane situations that could only occur in a comedy or a very camp drama (but these are typically low production quality films). What I find interesting in your reply here is your point about how an audience today would view the film verses one back in the 60s. I would of assume the opposite of what you imply; that today the movie and most of its scenes would clearly be seen as the farce it was but back in the 60s when there was a real fear of being nuked, some of the farce might be lost on the audience. Either way one of the greatest black comedies.
  11. Yea, Bond is one of the best western supporting players as well as a supporting player in many other genres. e.g. Tom in The Maltese Falcon etc.... What a fine actor. As for western supporting players I want to add Alan Hale and Guinn 'Big Boy' Williams to the list. They were the sidekicks of Errol Flynn in a few Warner westerns like Dodge City and Santa Fe Trail (more of a historical drama then a western). These two were very funny as Flynn buddies and helped lighten up these pictures. Of course Alan Hale was in many, many movies for Warners but most of those were not westerns since Cagney, Bogie or E.G. Robinson (main Warner male stars) didn't make a lot of westerns (and we can all be glad about that!).
  12. I find it very ironic that you use The Awful Truth as an example of a movie that is NOT serious. The movie was only about divorce. Yea, that isn't very serious. But I do understand where you are coming from. Note that the movie uses a dog (the good old Thin Man pub), instead of children related to the custody battle to help lighten up the movie. Who gets the dog can be made funny, while who gets the children would fall flat. So The Awful Truth is a great example of a movie about a serious topic that is anything but a serious movie.
  13. Well since I read all of your post (and of course you do the same for me ), I did remember that you said it was the best of all time a few weeks ago. But I didn't want to appear to be over the top so I put in the 'top 10' just to prevent those Garbo fans from attacking me! As for showing movies over and over; If they show Born Yesterday within the next 3 months of so it is going to become the next NBNW.
  14. Well since The Heiress has one of the top 10 or so best actress performances of all time, it should be shown a lot. But yea, if the original poster wasn't being sarcastic they don't watch TCM much.
  15. LoveForNoir makes some very solid points and yes, my guess would be that Audrey is a little more known than Kate because of Audrey's fashion connection. Audrey also has a big gay following because of her tie to fashion (e.g. I have had some young fashion designers ask to use some of my Audrey photos to help them in their designs). To me fashion has a stronger link back to the past then music or movies to younger generations. With music or movies younger people typically like what is 'pop'. While this is also true with fashion there is a strong pull for classic fashion and the reinvention of classic fashion into what is currently hip, from fashion designers. Thus the industry itself promotes classic fashion. We don't see this with music or movies since the current sellers of these products do NOT wish you to buy 'old' stuff but their stuff. This keeps fashion icons like Audrey in the limelight. Kate is still very well known (as for as classic actresses) since she had such a long career but even this will die down as time passes on. While, someone like Monroe will continue to be pushed on generation after generation (for reasons that I don't agree with but understand).
  16. Well joe does make the point you are making in his post below when he mentions the western genre. But to me directors or producers that set out to make a western often made a so-so film. Like any genre to me the best westerns are those with great characters and stories that just happen to be set in the west. Take The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance; That is a great movie that just happens to be set in the west and about the west (western expansion and the taming of the west). In many ways the movie betrays the western genre; For example, take the killing of Valance. For that scene to be a "true" western it would have to be a fight at dawn between Wayne and Valance where Wayne draws faster than Valance and the hero wins. But instead we seen Wayne murder Valance. My point? Movies are often better (elevated), when they are NOT true to their genre. Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Dec 30, 2011 2:05 PM Edited by: jamesjazzguitar on Dec 30, 2011 5:47 PM
  17. Well as a hugh Powell fan I thank TCM for having him as SOTM. Considering it was December (holiday month), TCM showed a lot of his movies. But I can understand the reaction; we love are stars and we want to see them get their due. I just wish Leslie Howard would be SOTM. If he was I would then complain they didn't show 38 of his films! Oh, wait, I don't think he made that many.
  18. Since joe and you imply a true noir must have a certain percent of noir lighting, the examples you give a good ones (as NOT being true noirs), since they fail to meet that definition. While noir lighting as settings are a noir factor for me they are only one factor. I also focus on the characters, and their relationships. The movies mentioned do have noir characters and relationships but I agree not much noir lighting. To me noir lighting was 'cool' in the early noirs of 40s (while it was still somewhat new) but after this it became a cheap way to make a movie get a noir feel. Make a movie with a so-so plot and characters but ensure there are scenes where there is a flashing neon sign in a run down motel room; Oh, we have true noir now (NOT!). I do agree The Big Heat is more of a crime drama than a noir, but in my world even if the director would of added in some additional noir lighting it would still be more of a crime drama. But there is a limited noir element in the film with the way Ford treats the women in the film. Gun Crazy is a noir to me because of the relationship between the two main characters and how it revolves around guns. That relationship is very noir even without the noir lighting. How about Out of the Past which was mentioned before; That is one of THE noirs because of its noir characters, relationship and plot but other than the San Francisco scenes there isn't a whole not of noir lighting.
  19. Many younger people know Audrey Hepburn, especially women, because she is a fashion icon; i.e. the little black dress. So like the other icons mentioned (Wayne, Dean, Monroe, and Bogie), she will be remembered for more than her films. As for Frank Sinatra: I think he will be one of the most remembered entertainers of the 20th century. More so for his music than films but Elvis, The Beatles and Frank will be the primary music of the 20th century that are known by future generations because of factors other than just their music.
  20. As I have stated before the general topic of defining noir with some type of formula is of little interest to me. But you did make a comment that was very interesting to me: There are some films that are considered classic noirs that I don't see as noirs. To me a more fruitful discussion is for someone to mention a specific movie(s) that they feel are defined as classic noir (naming the source if possible), and explain in as much detail as possible why they don't view the film as noir (or noir enough). Note: I ask that the source be named since I often see strawman arguements here. Comment like 'they all claim XYZ'. Most of the time there is NO 'they' and this is just a cheap device for creating a strawman agreement. Sorry but your last sentence makes no sense to me; There is NO real, definitive list. That is the folly of the entire game here. There is no real, definitive definition of noir and thus no real definitive list can be created. WHO would one trust to create such a list? HUMANS??? Thus there would be NO definitive consensus. IF there was any consensus it would by definition be by the "industry".
  21. I felt I have seen all of Cary Grant's good movies but maybe not. I'll have to check this one out. The later one Ginger and Cary did with Monroe is only so-so.
  22. I have also always liked Ann Sheridan and have enjoyed her performances in many films but I'm not sure I would purchase an Ann bio and I'm a classic movie nut. It isn't that I don't like or even love these stars but only that I'm really not that interested in reading an entire book about them. I would rather get a book like Warner Stars of the 30s and 40s, where many stars are given a few pages or so about their personal lives as well as some of the better movies they were in during the period. Hey, no such book exist as far as I know. But if there was one I would buy it. I do have books about Davis (her 2 books as well as a 3rd party bios), and Olivia DeHavilland and Joan Fontaine (both their bios as well as a book called Sisters), the Lauren Bacall book and one on Garbo and one on Cary Grant. I got these books years ago when I first got into classic movies because at the time these where the stars that interested me. But today I don't have that same level of interest in their personal lives but a lot more about the movies of the era (so if I get a book it is mostly about the movies they made and stories related to those movies). Maybe I would get a book about Mitchum but other than him, I cannot think on anyone else.
  23. Rock is checking out the aloof Bob just like the other 2 are!
  24. Don't forget Jimmy Steward coming back to make It's a Wonderful Life.
  25. Liberty Valance has been discussed a lot under the Western thread; I for one don't view the Wayne character as a hero. The killing of Valance wasn't done as an heroic act but instead to please a girl. In fact most of his actions were don't to either please this same girl OR because he lost the girl. His life after she chooses the Steward character was far from heroic. He was a bitter, loner and somewhat of a loser. The Steward character isn't really a hero either but only takes credit for being one. But he is an upstanding person since he is willing to tell the truth about what really happened. The movie is a great study about the concept of the fading of the western hero so it would be a very good film for people to see related to that concept even with the fact there is no clear cut hero to worship (versus say York). I would recommend the western Westward the Women. Here Robert Taylor plays a complex hero type and many of the women are heros themselves.
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