JarrodMcDonald
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Posts posted by JarrodMcDonald
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I like what you said about WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION. I think medical students should be required to watch THE CITADEL and those studying to become teachers should watch THE BLACKBOARD JUNGLE.
Wouldn't it be great if TCM did an Agatha Christie movie night?
AND THEN THERE WERE NONE
WITNESS FOR THE PROSECUTION
MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS
DEATH ON THE NILE
THE MIRROR CRACK'D
EVIL UNDER THE SUN
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Excellent post. Several thoughts spring to mind:
First, you're right, it is the fault of producers and audiences who will not accept certain actors doing anything else but what we've come to like them doing. When Katharine Hepburn made screwball comedies in the 30s, she was a hit, but when she attempted costume dramas (QUALITY STREET & MARY OF SCOTLAND) she was considered box office poison.
But I think we almost need to have a form of type-casting. That sounds bizarre to say, but there is a purpose to it. In the industry, in casting, there is this thing that happens when the performer's real-life persona informs a role and determines his or her believability in the role. Dame Judi Dench's persona allows her to be taken seriously in aristocratic parts or as a mature, no-nonsense women. If suddenly cast as a peasant or as a weak, co-dependent woman, it might seem like too much of a stretch, and we would know that the actress' real-life shrewdness and sensibility was being unrealistically hidden inside a character that does not match her energy or physicality.
I think there are also some benefits to using type-casting and casting against type. If you look at old episodes of the mystery drama Murder She Wrote, there were often many old Hollywood stars who made guest appearances. Sometimes the killer turned out to Dean Jones or someone whose persona is very wholesome or friendly...so it would be a shock when Jessica Fletcher exposed the identity of the killer at the end of the episode. The writers and casting director of that program were expecting us to trust Dean Jones or June Allyson, not suspecting that they might indeed be the guilty party.
Then there are those actors who are truly versatile and can do almost anything. So they are able to defy typecasting more successfully, and you never know what sort of part they're playing, until you are half-way into one of their movies. Dame May Whitty is this way for me. Sometimes she's the sweet old lady (THE LADY VANISHES); the victim of a killer (NIGHT MUST FALL); and sometimes she is the wicked old woman (MY NAME IS JULIA ROSS).
I agree that it may be frustrating for an actor who feels inhibited by typecasting. But some may actually appreciate it, because it clearly defines what type of roles they can go out for and get. And I don't think an actor of limited range like John Wayne objected to doing only westerns and war movies; just like I don't think Hugh Grant minds doing mostly romantic comedies. It is their niche. It guarantees producers a certain built-in audience for these types of performances and in many cases is money in the bank.
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Just thought of:
Ralph and Joseph Fiennes, brothers
Blythe Danner and Gwyneth Paltrow, mother and daughter
Jennifer Tilly and Meg Tilly, sisters
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Bridget Fonda's career was hot in the 90s, then she stopped. I wonder what she's been up to lately. She's a good actress.
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The Lockharts: Gene, Kathleen, June, Anne
Tippi Hedren & Melanie Griffith, mother and daughter.
Dub Taylor & Buck Taylor, father and son
Tex Ritter & John Ritter, father and son
George Sanders & Tom Conway, brothers
Mary Martin & Larry Hagman, mother and son
Russ Tamblyn & Amber Tamblyn, father and daughter
Diane Ladd, Bruce Dern & Laura Dern, mother, father and daughter
Kirk Douglas & Michael Douglas, father and son
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I always forget about the Arquettes.
Oh, and the Baldwin brothers: Alec, Daniel, William, Stephen
And there's Bing Crosby and his daughter, Mary Crosby, a television actress
Judy Lewis, the daughter of Loretta Young and Clark Gable, was a television actress and producer
Patty Duke and John Astin are the parents of actors Sean and Mackenzie Astin.
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While watching a film today starring Jane Fonda, I thought about nepotism in Hollywood. These are some examples that came to mind, but I'm sure there are more:
FAMILIES
- The Fondas: Henry, Jane, Peter, Bridget
- The Barrymores: Lionel, John, Ethel, John Drew, Drew
- The Hustons: Walter, John, Anjelica, Danny
- The Redgraves: Michael, Vanessa, Corin, Lynn, Natasha Richardson
- The Nelsons: Ozzie, Harriet, David, Rick
- The Ball-Arnazes: Lucille, Desi, Lucie, Desi Jr. (Lucille Ball was a cousin of Ginger Rogers.)
MOTHER-FATHER-DAUGHTER
- Debbie Reynolds, Eddie Fisher, Carrie Fisher
- Janet Leigh, Tony Curtis, Jamie Lee Curtis
- Ann Sothern, Robert Sterling, Tisha Sterling
MOTHERS & DAUGHTERS
- Judy Garland, Liza Minnelli, Lorna Luft
- Joan Crawford & Christina Crawford
- Maureen O'Sullivan & Mia Farrow
- Moyna Macgill & Angela Lansbury
- Goldie Hawn & Kate Hudson
MOTHERS & SONS
- Elizabeth Taylor & Michael Wilding Jr.
- Helen Hayes & James MacArthur
FATHERS & DAUGHTERS
- Frank Sinatra & Nancy Sinatra
- Alfred Hitchcock & Pat Hitchcock
- Ryan O'Neal & Tatum O'Neal
- Charlie Chaplin & Geraldine Chaplin
FATHERS & SONS
- John Wayne & Patrick Wayne
- Joel McCrea & Jody McCrea
- Douglas Fairbanks Sr. & Douglas Fairbanks Jr.
- Lon Chaney Sr. & Lon Chaney Jr.
- Alan Hale Sr. & Alan Hale Jr.
- Harry Carey Sr. & Harry Carey Jr.
- Robert Walker Sr. & Robert Walker Jr.
- Lloyd Bridges, Beau Bridges & Jeff Bridges
- Bing Russell & Kurt Russell
BROTHERS & SISTERS
- John Travolta & Ellen Travolta
- Jack Albertson & Mabel Albertson
BROTHERS
- The Marx Brothers
- The Brothers Howard
- Raoul Walsh & George Walsh
SISTERS
- Olivia DeHavilland & Joan Fontaine
OTHER
- Katharine Hepburn played mother to her real-life niece Katharine Houghton in GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER.
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I think THE CITADEL goes with SISTER KENNY, since both feature Roz Russell in medical dramas.
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So it had come full circle by the time Ford remade it in the late 40s. It's a great, heartwarming story.
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Yes, you're right, it's WIFE, not WOMAN. LOL
I've seen CLUNY BROWN once on TCM, back in December 2008. I didn't record it, and I regret not doing so. I did record CARRIE. There are better Jennifer Jones films, for sure.
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I am glad we have Ralph in THE ENGLISH PATIENT.
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I'm glad you are gleaning something from the thread.
I like what you said about casting a role for an adaptation. I guess it is subjective. Someone may think that Gary Coleman would make a great Scrooge, and someone else may say, no, he needs to play Tiny Tim. Obviously, some casting decisions make more sense than others.In the case of biopics, I think the casting is more crucial. If John Travolta were cast as the lead in a remake of 'GANDHI' I don't think a lot of people would buy it. It may be a dream project of Travolta's and the film may get made, but who will ultimately see it? Mostly Travolta fans who would accept him in anything, that's who.
Miscasting is caused by many things. Among them:
- the wrong age for the part
- the wrong ethnicity
- inability to sing in a musical
- lack of romantic chemistry with costar
- not enough technique; a more talented performer should've been hired
- a character actor not attractive enough in a romantic role
- a classically trained actor 'slumming' in a formula picture
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I like how you made the distinction between what requires multiple viewings and which ones are more easily re-watchable.
I also think that there are films we want to 'pass on' to our kids and the next generation. I watched CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF recently, and it really made me think of my mom. She loved that film. And now I can see why...she identified with Liz Taylor's character, because my dad's family was exactly like Brick's (played by Paul Newman). Anytime she saw this film come on, she would stop and watch it, and now I watch it too, because I inherited her love for this film. I know I will definitely watch it again, and it won't be a long time before I do.
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Yes, it does. And I think that is why some films are more appealing than others and have more staying power.
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I want to hear Alec's comments about THE BLUE DAHLIA, too. And I'm curious about what he'll say regarding Fredric March's performance in THE BEST YEARS OF OUR LIVES.
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Yes, there are various factors that determine which films are shown and how frequently. But I do think part of it is the programmers have their favorites.
In my opinion, the criteria for airing a film should be based on:
- films that are most searched on the database
- films that have significant cultural and historical value
- seldom seen films that have the most requests
- films that earned awards
- films that programmers have access to that are not commercially available
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Well, that's part of it. Some films are not easily understood or appreciated with a single viewing. I am always finding something 'new' in CITIZEN KANE and TOUCH OF EVIL.
Also, when we are younger we look at movies a certain way. Then we see the same film again ten years later, and we extract new meaning from it. So, yes, some films do require multiple viewings. But the question is, are they the ones that TCM's programmers keep choosing?
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I was reading about 3 GODFATHERS...definitely a great film. And I noticed that there is a Chester Morris version from the 30s that is scheduled on TCM in the near future.
This original version, from 1936, was done by Richard Boleslawski. I can't wait to see it, in order to compare it with the Ford remake.
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I agree with that statement. That's why I referenced Netflix way back at the beginning of this thread.
If you can buy it cheaply on DVD or see it inexpensively on Netflix, then you look at TCM to meet other needs, namely the unreleased gems. And that is what the programmers need to capitalize on, in my opinion.
They have new fans, who are just discovering the classics, and they have the long-time fans who are more selective about the titles they prefer to see on a channel like this.
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Hi Web,
I think you have caught on to the connection between my other thread and this thread.
There is a definite relationship between what is OVERPLAYED and what requires MULTIPLE VIEWINGS.
Yet, the importance of some of these films, essential or not, is subjective and debatable.
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I like his film work a lot, too. He's one of my favorite character actors.
I agree with the comments that he and Louis Calhern shared a few of the same qualities. As for ANNIE GET YOUR GUN, it would've been great to see him work alongside Judy again (who was originally cast as the lead)...but unfortunately, that was not meant to be.
My favorite role of his is probably the last one he did, with Clark Gable and Loretta Young in KEY TO THE CITY. It's a very simple role, but he makes it very good. He's also fun to watch in THE STRATTON STORY, since his on-screen chemistry with James Stewart, June Allyson and Agnes Moorhead is so good.
And I like his scenes in THE MORTAL STORM a lot.
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You might want to look at BALL OF FIRE from the early 40s. It is not a Beat film, but I think it foreshadows the beat generation in terms of jargon and attitudes about language and expression.
As for Ginsberg, he may not like the fact that movies exploited the Beat generation, but it's a double-edged sword because it did bring more prominence to people like Kerouac and himself. He's just ticked that he couldn't control the way the Beatnik generation was depicted by Hollywood.
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The Warner Archives collection seems to have as many detractors as it does fans. I guess it's good that some of the films have made their way out on to the open market. But the reproduction quality is lacking in most cases.
I am sure that these recent releases play into the TCM programmers' decision as to which early talkies get played most often. I notice that they play a lot of EGR's early talkies and most of those are part of the Warner Archives collection.
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In DiCaprio's case, he has a loyal following. So it will definitely make money. But it's not a good sign that they didn't wait till May at least and give it a better chance to succeed. Somebody probably lost faith.
I like what you said about casting a role for an adaptation. I guess it is subjective. Someone may think that Gary Coleman would make a great Scrooge, and someone else may say, no, he needs to play Tiny Tim. Obviously, some casting decisions make more sense than others.
What requires MULTIPLE VIEWINGS?
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Good idea about ON THE WATERFRONT. And Catholic women considering a religious life should watch Audrey Hepburn's excellent performance in THE NUN'S STORY. Catholic men considering a religious life might want to watch THE HOODLUM PRIEST, starring Don Murray.