Taxes: America compared to other countries in Off Topic Chit-Chat Posted April 17 20 hours ago, Sepiatone said: If it's that difficult, my guess would be the increase was so that it must not have come as a shock to taxpayers, which then begs the question: What about it then that makes it so scary to the right? Sepiatone Not only scary to the right, but many moderates as well. Politically, the problem is that the majority of people who actually vote can easily perceive "socialiazed" Medicare For All and similar programs as distasteful and therefore will oppose them. If the US were to embrace the Candadian, Swiss, et. al. systems, there would be a huge increase in taxes for somebody. It is very unlikely that this large increase would not filter down to the working and middle class taxpayers as well. They already think they pay too much in taxes. Incidentally, The Affordable Care Act, as limited as it is currently, created an extra "tax" on Social Security recipients at certain income levels. It is taken out as an extra Medicare charge, but it there to fund ACA. Hasn't hit us, but I have heard from those that it has and they are not happy about it. 18 hours ago, SansFin said: I can not speak with authority as my political beliefs do not align with: 'right' or: "left' but I have heard it said that the most persuasive argument against government health programs is: the VA. What hope does the average citizen have of receiving proper care if veterans consistently and constantly suffer neglect at the hands of bureaucrats? A question which I have often heard posed is: "If socialized medicine is so great, why do NHS workers demand their benefit package include private health insurance?" The VA does have problems which the Trump administration did little to nothing to fix. Nor did the Obama administration. The problem is the huge number of veterans (and some spouses) eligible for services or payment for services. Mind you, the patients basically pay nothing for services, so the taxpayers have to pay for it. That is not wrong, but it is the way it is. I use the VA for some services and biggest problem is getting in touch with your medical provider. Another example is that while private medical providers, hospitals and so forth began providing all services months ago, the VA is still very restrictive. Locally, you can call a private provider and get an in person appointment within days or weeks depending on what is needed. The VA does not even let you enter the buildings unless you have an appointment and in most cases, "appointments" are a telephone call to you from your medical provider at his/her convenience. As for NHS workers, probably because without including private health insurance, they would have no realistic coverage. 16 hours ago, SansFin said: I have been made aware of a situation which speaks powerfully also against government control: at least two major cities have opened vaccinations to people of all ages. Officials bemoan how few people are scheduling appointments. People bemoan how appointments for weekends are rare or non-existent. The bureaucrats strongly feel the world must march to their Nine-To-Five Monday-through-Friday timetable and treat people who have children or have to work during the day as subhuman undeserving of care. Are the week-end appointments limited because they fill-up so quickly or because the facilities are not open? What about the people administering the vaccinations, should they be required to work 60+ hour weeks for the convenience of some people? What does having children have to do with it? The children are still there on the week-ends and probably more of a problem than during the week. What do these people do when they need to see a medical person or facility on a non-emergency basis? These are almost all operated on a M-F, 9-5 basis. The government is offering something for free that may save your life.