TomJH
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Posts posted by TomJH
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9 minutes ago, YourManGodfrey said:
Cagney’s performance was actually my favorite in that film. I have only seen the film once, but Cagney’s scenes are the ones that have stuck in my head. Now, by the rules of the internet, I demand that you change your opinion! 😆
How about my posting a pix of the cast during production. Will you settle for that?
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Two of Hollywood's most glamourous redheads are still with us.
Rhonda Fleming is 96.
Arlene Dahl is 94.
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36 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:
Well, to each their own. I don't feel that broadness is necessarily a bad thing.
While it may not have been THE definite role of his career (that would go to Cody Jarrett in WHITE HEAT), I still think he turned in a terrific performance as the ship's Captain in MISTER ROBERTS.
I rather suspect that most people probably enjoy Jimmy's work in Mr. Roberts and I am of a minority opinion. The reality to me is that everything Cagney did after White Heat seems anti-climactic. There are only so many great roles in a career. The quality of his films largely declined and Cagney started to slow down as he got increasingly heavy. That doesn't mean he wasn't always giving a professional account of himself (certainly his mile-a-minute dialogue delivery in One Two Three is a wonder, he gives a mean abrasive performance with a touch of vulnerability in Love Me Or Leave Me, as well as a nice low key turn in Come Fill the Cup and a couple of others could be mentioned, as well) but the best of his career was clearly behind him once he entered the '50s. Mr. Roberts, I suspect, was his biggest commercial success of those later years.
Please don't misundertand my overall feelings about this actor. One of the great thrills of my teen years was when Cagney sent me a small note of thanks for a fan letter of mine. He was a very gracious gentleman in that missive to me.
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17 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:
I'm surprised you didn't like Cagney's part in the film. IMO, he managed to be both believably contemptable (love his confrontations with Fonda's Doug Roberts) and hilariously uproarious (his throwing a hissy fit when he confronts Roberts about Roberts being the one who threw his precious palm tree overboard just kills me!).
I admit I never saw the original play so I don't know how the role of the Captain played out in there, but I do know I did appreciate Cagney's acting skill in this one. But all four of the leading men did such a bang-up acting job.
I'm not saying Cagney didn't have his moments (the "Whooo did it?" scene on the ship's intercom system after his palm tree is destroyed) but, overall, compared to the best work of his career, his performance disappoints me. Too broad.
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11 hours ago, kingrat said:
Mister Roberts gives us the chance to see four great stars at different stages of their careers, and all four could scarcely be better. Jack Lemmon looks impossibly young and skinny and adorable and, oh yes, funny. If he's near the beginning of a long film career, William Powell is at the end of his and though the doctor seems weary, his quiet wisdom, irony, and kindness shine through. Like Powell, Henry Fonda is one of the best "acting is reacting" actors to be found. The smallest gesture, a look, an intonation, the thought we can see cross his face--never too much, always enough. Like Lemmon, James Cagney is a different kind of actor, livelier, more extroverted, more presentational. Because we like Cagney from his other films and because the captain is so full of energy, although usually misguided, he's comic, villainous, and serious in just the right proportions.
As a big fan of Jimmy Cagney, I've always been a bit disappointed by his broad playing as the Captain in this film. I see little, if any, of the subtlety that he was capable of bringing to a role here. Yes he's amusing to watch, at times, and I know that this mean spirited little man he is portraying has to be the butt of the humour in much of the film. Maybe it's simply the way that the role of the Captain was written and Cagney was being loyal to Joshua Logan. But James Cagney was, in my opinion, one of the great actors and I would have enjoyed seeing a more rounded characterization instead of a cartoony villain. If that had happened,though, I guess the Captain would not have been as much of a foil for everyone else.
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43 minutes ago, rosebette said:
I wish Strawberry Blonde was on the list of films being shown. I remember that French film retrospective where the speaker spoke of American films and said everything by Raoul Walsh was crap except for Strawberry Blonde. I happen to disagree with that statement about Walsh, but that French film directors recognized this little gem is significant.
I don't have much respect for that French critic's opinion about Raoul Walsh films, even if he is right about The Strawberry Blonde. By the way, Olivia had such a pleasant experience working with Walsh on this film that she recommended him as director to Errol Flynn when the latter was looking for someone to helm his upcoming epic They Died With Their Boots On. Flynn was a big enough star then that he could have a say as to who directed him (having severed relations with Mike Curtiz that same year, with Jack Warner's agreement). Olivia, of course, much to Flynn's surprise (relations between them had reached a low point during their previous film together Santa Fe Trail in which Errol acted the prima donna on the set and was also undoubtedly jealous that she was dating Jimmy Stewart at the time), agreed to be his leading lady in Boots for what turned out to be a happy working experience for them together.
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Gone With The Wind was the turning point in Olivia de Havilland's career. The role of Melania gave Olivia the status as an actress that had been denied to her previously, and only fired her ambition for stronger roles. Yes, Jack Warmer punished her with her subsequent roles at Warners to make her know "her place"but that did nothing to squash her ambition for stronger roles.
Who knows if she would have even been in the running for Hold Back the Dawn if it had not been for GWTW. That same year, 1941, even Jack Warner finally gave her an effective role in which she would shine in The Strawberry Blonde. But the seriousness taken in her as an actress (and not just a pretty ornament in an Errol Flynn film) began with her performance as Melanie in the most popular film of 1939.
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5 hours ago, speedracer5 said:
It looks like Bette Davis' SUTS day has been bumped for a 24-hour tribute to Olivia de Havilland.
All times EST
6:00am The Male Animal
8:00am Princess O'Rourke
10:00am Light in the Piazza
12:00pm In This Our Life
1:45pm Captain Blood
4:00pm Dodge City
6:00pm The Adventures of Robin Hood
8:00pm Gone with the Wind
12:00am The Heiress
2:15am To Each His Own
4:30am Hard to Get
It's a generally nice selection of Olivia's work and appropriate as a tribute to the actress as the world says farewell.
Certainly five of the films listed were of significance in her career - Captain Blood, Robin Hood, GWTW, The Heiress and To Each His Own.
By the way, Olivia didn't view The Adventures of Robin Hood until around 20 years after it was made. And she, much to her own surprise, I gather, was enchanted by the film enough that she wrote a letter to Errol Flynn encouraging him to see it again if he hadn't done so recently. Then she had second thoughts about the letter and tore it up, thinking Errol might think her silly. Not long afterwards Flynn died, and Olivia regretted not having sent him the missive.
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I've discussed this before on these boards and found myself alone in my chief criticism of ONCE UPON A TIME IN HOLLYWOOD: (SPOILER ALERT) the violence committed by Brad Pitt against a woman whom he beats into a pulpy mass. She is quickly completely defenceless as he then proceeds to beat her to death. It's not so much the violence (admittedly, it's so over the top that it's almost cartoony) as it is seeing macho man Pitt perform it against a young woman.
Yes, she's one of the Manson psychos but, as of the moment of her death in the film, the only violence she has actually done had been to stab Pitt in the hip or leg (and even then it was half by accident, as she looked as surprised by it as he was). Not enough had happened in the film as of that point to justify the violence of her death (by a "good" guy for whom the audience is supposed to cheer).
With all the praise coming from posters here for Tarantino's film I don't see any pointing out this scene for condemnation of the violence against a woman. Aside from that scene, yes, I liked the film, with Pitt's performance, along with the period detail, the highlights for me.
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5 minutes ago, rosebette said:
This is one of my favorite films, and I think one of Alan Ladd's best. I think he's even better in this than in Shane.
The Proud Rebel is a lovely, gentle western, my second favourite Ladd film after Shane. The sensitive scene in which he must tell his son that he sold their dog is probably the emotional highlight of the film for me.
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6 minutes ago, NipkowDisc said:
I liked her of course but I think at the beginning she is a little too hard-bitten in the role.
maybe Jo van Fleet woulda been better.
It's unexpected casting for Olivia, of course, but she was actress enough to accept the challenge and I think she gave a very good account of herself.
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33 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:
This is streaming on Amazon Prime.
Other de Havilland movies streaming:
Lady in a Cage
The Ambassador's Daughter
Raffles
Proud Rebel
Santa Fe Trail
The Proud Rebel, not a particularly well remembered western today, is actually one of Olivia's more interesting films, in my opinion, certainly from her later post Heiress years. Set in the post Civil War years, she is very credible as a stubborn farm woman who takes in a wandering former rebel soldier and his son (Alan Ladd and real life son David) to work on her farm. Ladd was known to be the star of a lot of action programmers, particularly in the later stages of his career, but this film was different: an intelligent, low key character motivated western, and having a co-star like two time Oscar winner Olivia brought the film a touch of class missing from the actor's other films.
Olivia and the Ladds got along well during the production, so well, in fact, that they kept contact with each other over the years. Years later David Ladd, with wife, Cheryl, visited Olivia at her Paris home on his honeymoon and took her out to dinner. The Proud Rebel, by the way, was Olivia's first film in 17 years with director Michael Curtiz. She didn't much like working with the fiery Hungarian but this final collaboration between them turned out to be a good one. Olivia even joined Curtiz in having dinner at the Ladds' home during production, something that was probably pretty inconceivable during their Warner Brothers days together.
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1 minute ago, laffite said:
Now you're saying that he will "suffer guilt." I might go along with that. That is a "natural conclusion" But you're opening sally on this said he would be "haunted." I took that to mean much more. Haunted for the rest of his days, something like that. I respect your opinion, but your opinion is not compelling to me. He will overcome it as we all more or less do in our own lives. If the movie wanted to suggest beyond all doubt that Harry would be another Chris Cross, then they would have done it. They didn't do that. I think 'nuff said on this.
To me suffering guilt, possibly for the rest of one's life (it depends upon the individual, of course, but Harry is a sensitive man) and being haunted by a death are one and the same thing. At least we are in agreement, though, that enough has been said on this topic. That's common ground for us, at least.
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50 minutes ago, TheCid said:
Did we see the same movie? I distinctly remember Wesley being told not to be there and to leave and he chose not to. Also, Harry had no knowledge that the criminals would be threatening murder when they came.
There you go again, Cid, blaming the victim. And you're changing the story to strengthen your argument. I have no memory of Harry telling Wesley not to go down to the Sea Queen the day of the robbery. Wesley wanders down there for something to do. Of course Harry doesn't anticipate this to happen. It's a tragic occurrence (some might say fate). Harry also lets valuable time go by when he doesn't stop Wesley from turning over the boat motor, knowing that time was ticking by as the robbers were on the way. A minute later the bad guys arrive and one of them cold bloodedly shoots Wesley.
Once again, the unpredictable consequences that occurred from Harry's risky decision to play with the devil, and Wesley is dead as a result of it. Of course, Harry will experience guilt over this. His best friend would still be alive if he hadn't done it.
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20 minutes ago, laffite said:
You could bolster your argument with that last scene, the boy all alone on the pier. Maybe your take is validated by that. The one loose end that will turn Harry Morgan into a Chris Cross. As long as we are entertain theories, maybe we can say that Harry will adopt the kid. Too bad they didn't do a THE BREAKING POINT II. It will take him awhile to get over carping on what a bad break having only one arm. He will be emotionally dependent on wife now, he will probably give nary a thought for Wesley. Can he still skipper a ship with only one arm? All the these things that must needs be considered for Harry's future. Maybe it would be better rewind back to the end of the movie and leave it like that. But I still doubt that he will suffer inordinately over Wesley. Maybe he should say, gee, if I never had been a skipper, Wesley would still be alive. If I had never been born Wesley would still be alive. If I hadn't married my wife I would have been a completely different person and Wesley would still be alive. If I had only run away with Leona Wesley would still be alive. Ooo, boy.
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I don't see my statement, that Harry will suffer guilt over Wesley's death, as any "theory" but a natural conclusion as a result of his risky behaviour. I'll repeat what I said previously because Wesley's death in The Breaking Point is a perfect illustration of it - the unpredictable consequences of a desperate action by an individual. In this case those unpredictable consequences resulted in the death of a friend (and a young boy losing his father, to extend it a logical step further, to add to that guilt). I don't understand why you and Cid have so much difficulty accepting this.
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1 minute ago, laffite said:
Okay, if you wish.
However, within the universe of the story that was not a viable option for Harry to do. I can't accept your view because why stop there? Let's change the whole story to make a point?
I'm taking about what Harry's options were, and Salinas was one of his options (which was pushed by his wife in the film). He didn't have to go with criminals. It would have made for a less interesting story, of course, and all film noir fans want to see gangsters, not farm country. But that's a side issue. The point is Harry made a choice and that choice tragically lead to the death of his best friend.
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53 minutes ago, kingrat said:
Tom, there are not many scenes in Howard Hawks films that touch us emotionally, or are meant to, in my opinion. "Slick, rather superficial entertainment" is what Hawks does really well. He does comedy well. Something else he doesn't do is family. He's interested in groups of men who work together and the women who are tough and sassy enough to fit in with them.
Generally speaking I like Hawks films. But the Hawks aficionados do like to concentrate on certain films in his career, largely ignoring others (such as Sergeant York, one of the biggest hits of his career, bringing him his sole Oscar nomination and, for my money, one of his best films). There are also some family scenes in this film, in particular exploring the emotionally reserved relations between a rural mother and her son, their feelings for one another expressed more through their eyes than their poker faces or anything they say, that I think work.
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On 7/27/2020 at 11:28 AM, TheCid said:
Harry should not feel any guilt over Wesley's death. It seemed to me that Wesley knew early on that Harry was capable of doing things that were probably illegal to keep the boat. This was just one more. He was told to leave and he deliberately interjected himself into the situation. Also, Harry could not possibly have foreseen that the William Campbell character would kill someone just for being on the boat.
The fact that Wesley knew Harry was a risk taker doesn't negate Harry's responsibility for Wesley getting killed. It wouldn't have happened if Harry, who did everything hard, hadn't decided to gamble with his life, accidentally making his friend a victim in the process.
And I don't know what you mean by Wesley "deliberately interjected himself into the situation." You make it sound as though Wesley was responsible for his own death. Wesley didn't do anything to force himself into any situation. He innocently wandered down to the Sea Queen one morning (the wrong morning as it turns out) because he had nothing else to do. Wesley is a total innocent in what happened to him, and Harry will be haunted by the fact he didn't try harder to get him off the boat when he knew the criminals would be arriving any minute.
Wesley's death will be one of the greatest regrets of Harry's life.
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Without question the most poignant scene that Olivia de Havilland ever shared with Errol Flynn was their final scene in They Died With Their Boots On. It depicts the moment of farewell between General Custer and his wife just before he departs for the Little Big Horn, and it is played by both participants as they though have a foreboding that he will not return. Both actors are beautifully restrained in their portrayal of emotions, in contrast to Max Steiner's sweeping musical score which pounds on the viewer's heart strings. I recall calling this scene "a small masterpiece of suppressed emotion' in a letter that I sent to Miss de Havilland many years ago.
In real life, of course, it's well known that the two stars did have strong feelings for one another, Flynn later writing that he fell in love with Olivia while making Charge of the Light Brigade and Olivia, while stating that their relationship remained chaste because of Errol's marriage, saying that her feelings for him were very real, and she still felt that way about him as late as in a 2009 interview.
What adds to the power of the departure scene in They Died With Their Boots On is that fact that this was the two actors' final film together. What's more, when they played this scene, both Errol and Olivia knew that they would probably never co-star again. The scene, in that respect, can be seen as a farewell between the two actors as much as it is between the characters they were playing.
I read that in 1978, long after Flynn's death, Olivia attended a special presentation of this film in Los Angeles. But as the film approached the farewell scene Olivia left her seat and went into the lobby and wept. After all those years the scene still had so much emotional resonance for the lady that she could not bear to watch it again.
"Travelling through life with you, M'am, has been a very gracious thing."
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8 hours ago, GGGGerald said:
I couldn't disagree more. He tried to separate from Wesley in Mexico and again at the end. Harry got himself into a mess and was trying to wind his way out of it and only getting deeper into the muck. Wesley was naive and loyal to a fault and that cost him. I can't blame Harry for that.
Yes, Harry did try to keep Wesley out of the line of fire (so to speak) but he failed to do so in the end, didn't he? You don't think those final minutes of Wesley hanging out on the Sea Queen just before Harry knew the criminals would arrive won't run through Harry's mind for years afterward wondering if he couldn't have done more to get him to leave (even be downright rude to him and tell him to get lost)? Harry didn't mean for it to happen, of course, but in gambling that he could work with gangsters Wesley became an innocent victim of Harry's money making plans. Yes, I think Harry holds responsibility, unintentional though it may be, for Wesley's death and he will be haunted by it.
It's the unpredictable consequences of a desperate action that is one of the hallmarks of film noir.
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I Just Watched...
in General Discussions
Posted
Actually, Spence, that's not quite the way I heard it. To the best of my knowledge nobody was ever nasty to James Cagney on this set or any other in his career, not even a known prick like John Ford. Ford induced Cagney to accept the role by referring to it as a vacation in Hawaii with old Cagney pal Spencer Tracy, playing Doc, as a co-star. The thought of playing with Tracy appealed to Cagney, though the role finally went to Bill Powell, with whom Jimmy got along well.
Now there was a physical altercation between Ford and Fonda (I forget the cause but these two did have different interpretations of the screen adaption). Cagney avoided the scuffles and later said that he and Bill Powell spent a lot of their time swimming and sun tanning on the beach. Ford was replaced by Mervyn LeRoy after the fall out, and to this day Ford fans are rather dismissive of this film.
Cagney wrote in his autobiography that he had one scene in the film that it was difficult for him to play. It's the one in which the Captain first encounters Ensign Pulver (Jack Lemmon) and asks him how long he's been on the ship. Pulver replies 14 months, and Jimmy had great difficulty repeating the line "Fourteen months!" without breaking up. Therefore he said that he and Lemmon rehearsed and re-rehearsed the scene until he was finally able to play it straight.
Mr. Roberts was, I believe, Warner Bros. top money maker of 1955, with Cagney's performance as the Captain getting positive reviews. Just to let you know, though, that I am not the only one to be disappointed by Cagney's work another critic of his portrayal was the story's playwright, Joshua Logan. He complained that Cagney through off the story's tone by playing the Captain "like an old New England bumbler, without any hatred, without darkness, without threat . . . a kind of Walt Disney character."
"Fourteen months!"