TomJH
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Posts posted by TomJH
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So who is the man who shot Liberty Valance?
Is it Doniphon, the man who actually shot him but doesn't want anyone to know because of the manner in which he did it, or it is Lanse, the mythical killer by celebrated legend who "killed" him in an honourable manner?
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25 minutes ago, Dargo said:
Good point, Tom.
And, in regard to some of the earlier thoughts expressed by others within this old thread in regard to Ranse's true motives for never telling the true story of Valance's death until he spills the beans to the reporters when he was an old man, this very thing, the idea that Tom COULD have been considered a murderer, WAS most likely the very reason he never told the true story to anyone previously.
(...and thus was paying Tom back in a way by protecting his reputation and possibly even from prosecution all those years)
Ranse and Doniphon are both men of integrity looking out for one another in their own way. But Ranse prospers because of the Valance killing while Doniphon turns to the bottle (well, John Wayne probably enjoyed that part of it).
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4 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:
Alexis and Errol actually sing together in Montana. I always liked that part of the film even if it's a little goofy.
The sound is pretty low, unfortunately, at least on my computer. I never thought Alexis Smith was more gorgeous.
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Tom Doniphon is a murderer by the way he shot Valance from the shadows, no matter what his motive may have been to save Lance's life.
And being a back (or, in this case, perhaps) side shooter like that created a self loathing in Doniphon, aside from his losing his girl, ironically, to the man he saved. When Doniphon gunned down Valance in that manner it was at the price of killing a part of his own soul in the process.
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4 minutes ago, Hibi said:
Do you know if she actually sang or was dubbed? I haven't seen that film.
It sounds like her voice. By the way, despite his presence in this scene, I've always suspected that Errol wasn't on the set when Alexis sang this number but was cut in later. You never see his face in a shot with her.
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3 hours ago, TikiSoo said:
Interesting....ever since I first saw Alexis Smith in THE HORN BLOWS AT MIDNIGHT as a kid, I had a thing for her. You could tell she was tall, and had beautiful red hair even in b&w...there is just something natural, yet elegant about her. "Alexis" was even my first choice of name if I had a girl (I didn't)
Funny, reading her bio on Wiki, she was brought up in LA but wasn't "discovered" by the studios until college. Also on wiki:
Smith was born in Penticton, British Columbia to Gladys Mabel Fitz-Simmons (a Canadian) and Alexander Smith (a Scot).
OK, so my terminology has yet again been corrected.
I always thought that Alexis Smith was grotesquely wasted by Warner Brothers during the '40s in bland "other woman" roles. The two exceptions to this were when she was allowed to banter on screen and have antagonistic relationships with Errol Flynn in Gentleman Jim and San Antonio (the earlier scenes in that western, at least). She comes across as spirited and feisty with Flynn. (The two were friends off screen, with Errol best man at her wedding to Craig Stevens).
And, I must say, I also thought Alexis looked marvelous when she warbled the sentimental "One Sunday Morning" (a song that became a big hit afterward) to a saloon full of appreciative cowboys in San Antonio.
Aside from those two roles (and, perhaps, an unexpected turn at something different, playing a scheming manipulator in One More Tomorrow) I thought that little of this actress's real talent was allowed to blossom during her Warners years.
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A Gunfight (1971)
If, in the final analysis, a minor western, A Gunfight still offers the interesting premise of two aging gunfighters, down on their luck financially, who agree to a gunfight in an arena, with hundreds of eager spectators watching, with a winner take all monetary prize at the end for the victor.
Johnny Cash plays the gunman stranger arriving in a small town, the meager pickings from his gold prospecting efforts in his pocket. Kirk Douglas is the former gunslinger now living in the town with his wife and small boy. His livelihood is from working in a saloon as an attraction to lure in customers whom he cajoles and puts on gun twirling displays. It's not much of a living as a frustrated Douglas feels the pressure to support himself and his family who live in a small room.
It's Douglas who will propose the gunfight to an initially reluctant Cash. Both men come to rather like one another, Douglas even calling Cash his best friend at one point. There's not a single person in the town, outside of Douglas's wife, who tries to talk him out of the venture. All look forward to it as a great betting show, eager to see who will win, with Douglas as the sentimental town favourite.
The film has a moral message about the blood lust of crowds for a spectacle sport involving death but the impact is a bit vague. It makes one think of Douglas's earlier death defying arena work in Spartacus, to a degree. The huge difference, of course, is that in A Gunfight Douglas's character is the instigator of the event doing it voluntarily, albeit for reasons of financial stress.
Jane Alexander is excellent as Douglas's wife who, after pleading with him to abandon the event, will try to resort to other methods to stop the gunfight from happening. Kirk's own son, Eric, plays his boy in the film in a bit of a family affair, as the film was partially produced by Douglas's own production company, Bryna (named after the actor's mother).
A young Karen Black plays a saloon girl drawn to Cash, while Keith Carradine scores well as a young gunslinger who arrives in the town, eager to get in on the action. Robert Wilke, a character actor familiar to movie buffs for his bad guy roles, including playing one of the four gunman out for the sheriff in High Noon, here graduates to playing the town peace officer himself.
Douglas is an old hand at westerns, of course, and can ride a horse and twirl a gun with the best of them, while Cash, in one of his few film roles, fits the role of the glum gunman like a tired old glove.
The film leads to the inevitable showdown before the crowds but I found the ending of the film (which includes an unexpected fantasy sequence which may confuse a few viewers) to be rather flat and disappointing. Still Douglas and Cash, old pros that they were, deliver performances that, while hardly of depth, still manage to maintain viewer interest in the film. Or, at least, they kept this viewer's interest there.
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16 hours ago, Dargo said:
(...I mean, why the hell do you think I've been on this whole "Rid the damn English Language of that dumb superfluous-u" kick for so long, HUH?!)
Because you have hang uups.
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The only thing I like about Two Rode Together is James Stewart's performance. I'll stick with The Searchers (and no, it's not because I'm influenced by the opinion of others, Sepia. I actually like the film all on my own).
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Okay, this anecdote might not seem to have much to do with Kirk Douglas but, stick with me, there is a connection.
I recall going for a hike in the woods back in the '70s or maybe '80s at a beautiful elevated location in Ontario (you have to climb a bit to get to it) known as Rattlesnake Point. Well, there are no rattlesnakes there, to the best of my knowledge, but there are plenty of other things, including even some buffalo in a meadow down below. Anyway the day I went there I didn't know it at the time but a Canadian character actor named Derek McGrath was also hiking through the woods (he would go to Hollywood and appear in some feature films and television).
Any way that day as I was hiking along at one point I was extolling the virtues of this natural paradise area quite loudly to my friend,
"It's all here," I said loudly and enthusiastically, "You've got birds and trees and buffalo . . ."
At that precise moment McGrath came walking out from behind a tree.
". . . and actors," I added without missing a beat as I pointed to him with a wave of my hand.
McGrath looked over at us and laughed as my friend and I kept walking.
Years later I watched DRAW, a Kirk Douglas western, and much to my surprise, up popped McGrath on the screen. I didn't know his name at the time.
"Hey," I yelled, "there's the guy from behind the tree!"
McGrath played a weaselly little creep in the film, at one point pulling out a gun and ready to shoot Kirk in the back until he's stopped by somebody. If I had known he was that type I might not have been quite so casual about sighting him that day back on Rattlesnake Point. And I sure wouldn't have turned my back on him!
Okay, it's not much of a Kirk Douglas story, I admit, but it's the best I could do.
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I lost interest in the Oscars when Raquel Welch stopped showing up as a presenter.
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35 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:
She only had one short scene that was meaningful in Stanley Donen's Bedazzled (1967) but it certainly jolted this 12 year-old when he saw it. Raquel Welch as Lillian Lust "the Babe with the Bust" who is sent by the Devil (Peter Cook) to tempt Stanley Moon (Dudley Moore).
That photograph of Raquel deeply moves me. Cursed with a face and form that creates lascivious desires in men throughout the world yet, at the same time, blinds them to the kindness of her soul. I'm sure that as a 12 year old peering up at her on the big screen you, too, pondered these conflicting issues, Bogie.
Here's another image of Raquel from Bedazzled:
I was right! Clearly this is a woman burning in anguish that she is only seen as having the jolting impact of a sex symbol.
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Seven Days in May (1964)
First rate, suspenseful political thriller about a planned coup of the U.S. government by members of the American military. Directed by John Frankenheimer, with a screenplay by Rod Serling, this film remains starkly realistic in its presentation.
John F. Kennedy (who had read the 1962 novel upon which the production was based) was, according to Kirk Douglas, whose production company was involved, encouraging to the film being made, even arranging for the film's opening scenes to be shot outside the White House. Kennedy believed that a military cabal of this nature was possible. The Pentagon, on the other hand, was opposed to the film's production, refusing to allow any scenes to be filmed there. (Frankenheimer did sneak in a shot of Douglas walking up the steps of the Pentagon, anyway).
Kennedy had recently accepted the resignation of the fervent anti-Communist General Edwin Walker, part of the basis for the novel's story. Walker's name is, in fact, mentioned in the Serling screenplay as one of a number of "false prophets," along with Joe McCarthy, to which the American public has turned at times.
The cast is a noteworthy one, with all doing solid work, a few of them outstanding. Douglas persuaded Burt Lancaster to accept the role of James Mattoon Scott, the decorated and highly esteemed military commander who regards an arms treaty about to be signed with the Russians by the American President as a sign of weakness.
Lancaster effectively underplays his role, thereby making the general seem all the more rational. It is a towering portrayal. Very much his equal, though, is Fredric March as the American President. March brings dignity, intelligence and thoughtfulness to his role. There will be a gripping confrontation between March and Lancaster towards the film`s end which Frankenheimer would later regard as probably his favourite directed scene.
Douglas, accepting second billing to Lancaster, is very solid in his less showy role as the "Judas," the general's underling who becomes suspicious of a military coup and reports it to the White House. The first portion of the film, as the suspicions grow, we see through Douglas`s eyes.
Other performers in the film include Ava Gardner as the former back door girlfriend of the married general, Edmond O'Brien as a dipso Southern senator, and friend of the President, Martin Balsam and George Macready as Presidential assistants initially cynical of the coup suspicion, and, in an unbilled role, John Houseman as an admiral who remains quiet after rejecting participation in the coup. O'Brien would receive the film's sole Oscar acting nomination for a supporting role.
Seven Days in May still works as a chilling political thriller today. President Kennedy, by the way, never saw the Frankenheimer film, which was released three months after his assassination.
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9 hours ago, Dargo said:
Ray Teal who made a career of primarily playing bit parts in many a movie before moving on to television in the 1950s, was able in just a few short minutes of a role in The Best Years of Our Lives made what I'd describe as both an impact upon the audience by his pitch-perfect performance as the unlikeable drug store diner political blowhard Mr. Mollett, but in addition made an impact upon the very life course of a couple of other characters in this great film...
(...in other words, without Teal's Mollett coming into the picture, Dana Andrews' Fred Derry might've still been an unhappily married soda jerk, and perhaps Harold Russell's Homer Parrish might have never married his childhood sweetheart...talk about "impact" here, eh?!...in a manner of speaking, it's twofold here...well okay, maybe THREEfold, and considering what Mollett ends up doing to a large glass department store display case!) LOL
Obviously Rob, the Stevenson's son, didn't have as much of an impact.
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33 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:
Kirk Douglas movies by IMDb rating. The rating is a 1 through 10, ten being best. This list is also a quick reference to Douglas' filmography:
Thanks for that list, Lawrence, making me appreciate how much of Kirk's career I've yet to see (which is a GOOD thing). I'm surprised that Mousey is rated so low but Paths of Glory ranked at the top seems about right to me.
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16 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:
I know some feel the humor in THE SEARCHERS was misplaced.....but I have to confess I always laugh when Ethan calls Martin "Jughead".
I actually don't mind the humor. I think it helps balance with the dark tone of the film. But that's me.
Little bits of humour like that are fine with me, too. It also fits in with Ethan's character to throw out a put down like that.
It's that stupid rolling on the ground scene that I mentioned that annoys me. Obviously that very broad slapsticky stuff appealed to Ford's sense of humour.
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1 minute ago, lavenderblue19 said:
Tom and Det Jim, I can't disagree, that scene isn't staged well but still does not detract from the film for me. Glad we all agree, it's a Great film
You know it might sound like nit picking to single out a poor scene like that since the film is such a classic. It's just that I like The Searchers so much that I get a little ticked with Ford for his misjudgment on this one matter on the film. And that ``Golly gee`` hick voice that Ford has Ken Curtis using in the film doesn`t help.
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13 minutes ago, Det Jim McLeod said:
Totally agree on this, I think that is why I rate the film 9/10 rather than 10/10, because everything else in the film is great.
Yeh, that scene has always been the fly in the ointment for me. Aside from that, what a film!
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1 hour ago, lavenderblue19 said:
My favorite John Wayne performance and film is in The Searchers. His transformation from a bitter, hateful man and his obsessiveness to his redemption(as far as Debbie goes). So touching as he stands and watches Debbie safe with the Jorgensons and Martin and Laurie reunited and yet he stands alone, holding his wounded arm as he leaves into the sunset. Just love this film and I never tire of seeing it. I think The Searchers has it all. Beautiful locations, action, great story, great supporting cast, a little romance, some humor, great lines ( Buddy Holly song was inspired by Ethan's line, That y'all be the day ) a truly great Western film and a truly great performance by John Wayne and I might add I thought Jeffrey Hunter was great in this film and it's also my favorite Jeffrey Hunter performance.
My other favorite performances by John Wayne are in Rio Bravo, Red River ,The Quiet Man, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance and The Shootist
I think The Searchers is one of the great westerns too.
My only criticism of it is that inclination that director John Ford had towards inserting cornball humour. That brawl between Jeffrey Hunter and Ken Curtis, rolling on the ground and yowling, obviously intended for slapstick laughs, seems inappropriate to me in a film with such a grim subject matter.
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Champion (1949)
The last of three major gritty boxing dramas released in the late '40s, following in the footsteps of Body and Soul and The Set Up, Champion is the film that really put Kirk Douglas on the Hollywood film map. Previously cast in supporting roles as weaklings or smooth talking villains Douglas was finally given a role that allowed him to play an ambitious increasingly unscrupulous individual with the kind of dynamic drive that would become a hallmark of this actor.
An early success in collaborations between producer Stanley Kramer and writer Carl Foreman, Champion casts Douglas as Midge Kelly, a down-and-outer travelling the country with his brother (Arthur Kennedy) in search of work. They get rolled by some tramps while freight hopping a train (Midge puts up a fight but he's out-numbered). Soon Kelly, in need of the money, agrees to participate in a boxing match. Game but out classed, he loses badly but demonstrates a raw animal courage in the process and gets the notice of an old time boxing manager (played by Paul Stewart) who offers to train him in the sport. Kelly has no interest.
After romantically hooking up with and then being forced into a marriage with a waitress (Ruth Roman), Midge quickly abandons her, travelling west with his brother and, now desperate for some kind of future (he doesn't want to be a "Hey you!" all his life) seeks out manager Stewart once again to begin training as a boxer.
While Champion touches on the corruption in boxing that's not the emphasis of the film as much as it had been with the two earlier boxing dramas. We are largely viewing, instead, a man's rise to the top of the sport by using and trampling over others in order to ruthlessly reach that pinnacle. This was the first of Douglas's louse roles, with director Mark Robson helping to keep any over-the-top acting excesses on the part of the actor well under control.
Aside from Kirk Douglas's hard driven and impressive dynamics, which netted him his first Oscar nomination, the supporting cast of this modestly budgeted production is impressive. Paul Stewart is perfectly cast as the old time cynical boxing manager who "likes to watch a couple of good boys work out."
But there is also Marilyn Maxwell as an only-lives-the-good-life platinum blonde gold digger always trying to latch on to whoever is on top and, in contrast to her, Lola Albright as the serene, sensitive wife of a boxing promoter. Midge decides to acquire her on the side as another trophy for himself. Ruth Roman brings a warmth and vulnerability to her role as the waitress Kelly abandons.
Some boxing analysts have criticized Douglas's performance in the ring as lacking authenticity, saying his character takes far too many shots to the head with seemingly little impact. But the actor's impressive physique and athleticism are also on display and, for me, the fast edited ring scenes work.
One of the very best sequences in Champion is a half hour into the film, a montage showing Midge Kelly's progress as a fighter, from his early gym training of amateur rawness (a bit of humour is worked in here) through his gradual progress into an efficient hard hitting fighter.
Playing no small role in the effectiveness of this montage is the musical accompaniment of Dimitri Tiomkin's score, lightly underscoring the earlier amateur moments but becoming increasingly more dynamic with a pounding brass sound as Midge Kelly turns into an accomplished fighter throwing digging shots into the heavy bag, as well as sparring partners covering up on the ropes.
A particular highlight moment in this sequence is a genuinely impressive display of rapid speed rope jumping (including cross overs) done by Kirk Douglas, with the camera moving in upon his feet to emphasis his skill. The actor obviously worked very hard on this athletic sequence.
And further adding to the impressiveness in viewing Champion today is the knowledge that Douglas lived to 103 years. Like the ambitious, hard punching character he plays in the film that had made him a star almost 70 years ago, even after a near fatal helicopter accident and a stroke, Kirk, like Midge Kelly, was an unstoppable force.
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Adding to the impact of Paths of Glory was some of the most biting dialogue recorded on film:
The attack yesterday morning was no stain on the honor of France, but this court-martial is such a stain... Gentlemen of the court, to find these men guilty will be a crime to haunt each of you to the day you die. I can't believe that the noblest impulse in man, his compassion for another, can be completely dead here.
- Dax: Let me get this straight, sir. You’re offering me General Mireau’s command?
- Broulard: Come, come, Colonel Dax. Don't overdo the surprise. You've been after the job from the start. We all know that, my boy!
- Dax: I may be many things, sir. But I am not your boy.
- Broulard:Well, I certainly didn’t mean to imply any biological relationship.
- Dax: I’m not your boy in any sense.
- Broulard: Are you trying to provoke me colonel?
- Dax: Why should I want to do that?
- Broulard: Exactly. It would be a pity to lose your promotion before you get it - a promotion you have so very carefully planned for.
- Colonel Dax: Sir, would you like me to suggest what you can do with that promotion?
- Broulard: Colonel Dax, you will apologize at once or you shall be placed under arrest!
- Dax: I apologize for not being entirely honest with you. I apologize for not revealing my true feelings. I apologize, sir, for not telling you sooner that you're a degenerate, sadistic old man. AND YOU CAN GO TO HELL BEFORE I APOLOGIZE TO YOU NOW OR EVER AGAIN!
- Broulard: Colonel Dax, you're a disappointment to me. You've spoiled the keenness of your mind by wallowing in sentimentality. You really did want to save those men, and you were not angling for Mireau's command. You are an idealist - and I pity you as I would the village idiot. We're fighting a war, Dax, a war that we've got to win. Those men didn't fight, so they were shot. You bring charges against General Mireau, so I insist that he answer them. Wherein have I done wrong?
- Dax: Because you don't know the answer to that question, I pity you.
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29 minutes ago, Bethluvsfilms said:
I agree that Wayne Morris is more often than not ignored, but he also contributes to making this film the classic it is and should not go unacknowledged. It's so sweet to know what a brave man he was in times of war in the real world.
I sometimes get a little emotional when I think of the courage Wayne Morris showed during the war (four Distinguished Flying Crosses and two air medals awarded to him after shooting down 7 Japanese planes and credited with the sinking of an enemy gunboat and destroyer) only to come back to a Hollywood which gave him largely short change with a lot of second rate features. At least Kubrick gave him the opportunity to shine in what turned out to be a great film. Two years later Wayne Morris was dead of a heart attack while visiting the USS Bon Homme Richard aircraft carrier off Monterey.
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11 minutes ago, Dargo said:
And, one of my favorite scenes in Paths of Glory is when Kirk purposely orders the cowardly Wayne Morris to head the firing squad.
(...Morris, who in real life was a highly decorated U.S. Navy flier during WWII, is also excellent and too often overlooked in this great film)
Spot on, Dargo. Wayne Morris is usually overlooked but he still has an impressive turn as a contemptible cowardly creature in Paths of Glory, a role which, as you pointed out, couldn't be more of a contrast to his real life heroism during WW2. Morris returned a decorated hero after the war to appear in a series of forgettable features as his career slid downward. I wonder why Kubrick selected him for this role (genius move really). I wonder if Hollywood's rather shabby treatment of this real life war hero had anything to do with it, Kubrick's way to apologize for the industry. I'm undoubtedly reading too much into his casting here, but, bottom line, Morris gives a fine account of himself in, again, one of the less appreciated performances in a great film.
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wayne shoulda won Oscars for a lot of his screen performances like sgt. john m. stryker.
Couldn't disagree more, at least about that particular performance which was released the same year Jimmy Cagney played Cody Jarrett. But Wayne was fine in some other films, with his highlight performances for me in Red River, The Quiet Man, The Searchers and The Shootist.
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The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
in General Discussions
Posted
These guys want people to live in a fantasy world in which truth means nothing. No wonder Nip loves this film.