Dargo
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Posts posted by Dargo
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1 hour ago, cigarjoe said:
Noir is a style combined with a dark story, always has been from the get go, who ever was trying to pigeon hole it into the American Crime genre caused all the confusion.
Yes CJ, and thus this very LACK of the "style" OR of the visual cinematic aspect to the film Eddie presented to us this week in Noir Alley WAS the very point of my little disertation up there, and why I said it SHOULD be defined as either a "Suspense" or a "Melodrama" and not a "Noir", and so thus again, didn't have a reason for being shown in this series.
Allow me to point out here that besides all the exterior scenes shot in bright sunlight, even most of the interior scenes were shot in bright light and with absolutely no use of shadowy contrasts or tilted camera angle shots, and which are two mainstays of the noir genre's visual style.
Once again, the ONLY very faint reason this film could in ANY manner be called a "noir" would be that this SUSPENSE or MELODRAMA movie was shot in B&W and made during the classic noir era, and with emphasis on the words "very faint reason" here.
(...And btw, your point here would not be germane to anything I said in that post, and although your point about "the American Crime genre" IS a valid one, of course)
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20 minutes ago, laffite said:
Salt and Pepper?
Ellen Jones finds herself caught in a web of circumstance of no fault of her own, which is noirish. But that alone is superficial. That happens in a lot of non-noirs. The movie reminds me of a half-hour suspense TV show in the 50s, callled PANIC! A young boy's father is off to work at a lighthouse where there is no phone. Somehow the boy overhears a couple of men talk about going to the lighthouse to kill his father. The boy frantically tries to save his father. He goes to the police but they don't believe his story. All this frantic running around in desperation, just like Ellen Jones. That was the first episode I ever saw. In the second episode, a woman is attacked and burglarized. She goes to police and is interviewed by an investigator. The recorder of the conversation enters and he's the man who attacked her. The woman flees in terror and we get a half hour of stark anxiety.
Just kidding about the Salt and Pepper. A handsome dose of Spike is better. That is if you need to dine on a fedora in the future.
So you're saying here laffite that because in both of these cases you offered up here there's characters being "frantic" and which gives the viewer "anxiety", that this alone would legitimately constitute them being defined as "noir" then, right?!
Then tell me here. Has the simple definitions of "Suspense" or "Melodrama" movie been assigned to the trash bin of cinematic history? And when exactly did this happen?
(...wait, don't tell me...this happened about 10 years ago or so and when it seemed everyone jumped on this whole "film noir" designation bandwagon and which is a whole lot more "artsy-er" sounding, right?!)
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Just now, Moe Howard said:
Could be the well has run dry. If all available Noir has been shown ad nauseam and the time machine isn't available to go back and make more, then the only thing left to do is redefine Noir.
Ya know Moe, sometimes I DO think this a plausable explanation for Eddie's picks. Good point.
(...and 'cause I really DIDN'T want to chow down on that fedora of mine...good ones aren't cheap, ya know)
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6 hours ago, Vautrin said:
I like Cause for Alarm more as a portrait, somewhat superficial, of early 1950s suburbia than a
noir flick...
Why Vautrin! Haven't you heard? Didn't you get the memo???
Evidently almost ANY movie from the 1940-'50s filmed in B&W and which contains at least ONE crazy *** character in it that isn't playing that charcater for laughs, is NOW considered a "film noir"! Uh-huh, and especially if someone which as a noted expert on the subject such as The Czar of Noir, aka one Eddie Muller SAYS it is, then brother it MUST be one!
(...OR in other words here folks...IF Cause for Alarm, a movie which contains absolutely NO visuals which even MILDLY suggest the story taking place in some dark and dangerous urban environment NOR a film in which the protagonist is vaining fighting against a rigged and corrupt system in which they have little chance to survive from NOR a protagonist who's attempting to get away with something that would be deemed a larcenous or generally antisocial behavior,well, IF this movie is a "film noir" and which one would THINK it should be for Eddie to present it on his series titled, wait for it, "Noir Alley", I'll EAT MY FREAKIN' FEDORA!!!)
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6 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:
HAH! It's legit tho, I used to have my own landscaping business but now I am just a very avid gardener. There is one former client of mine that I cannot seem to shake though, and I still do work for him.
I've seen a lot of euphemisms in my day but that one's a first.
(...sorry Lorna AND Ed...I JUST couldn't resist borrowing the line as it seemed to fit so very well here again for some reason)
LOL
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30 minutes ago, laffite said:
I like the two of them together, their conversation is interesting. They do not seem rehearsed but sill maybe they outlined it a little. Eddie is supposed to know more about Noir than Ben because of being the Czar of Noir. He is the official expert on TCM. And maybe the explains the deference of Ben in appearing to the "student."
Good point, laffite. This makes sense.
So maybe what I was earlier trying to say and perhaps didn't even realize it myself was that while I like this format of having another person around for Eddie to bounce off ideas, opinions and the specifics about these neo-noir movies and instead of having Eddie talking directly to us and as he does in his Noir Alley series, IF say the other person couldn't been on equal or near equal footing as Eddie in regard to the knowledge of this genre, and so to elicit more a give and take and possibly even a difference of opinion about of the films being shown. You know, and like when Bob Osborne and Alec Baldwin would occasionally differ in their view about a particular film on the old Essentials series.
Yep, maybe THAT'S what I really meant to say earlier.
(...and so with THIS thought in mind, do ya know who comes to mind as someone who might be even BETTER in Ben's role in this series?...uh-huh, I think I'd LOVE seein' our own CigarJoe conversing it up with Eddie on that set...sure, fat chance of THIS ever happening, but still, I think that would make for some REALLY interesting wraparounds to watch, alright!)
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9 minutes ago, SansFin said:
My such lists are often not in harmony with others in this forum. Example: I have watched all of the movies on: speedracer5's and: Darguo's list. I liked approximately half of them. A few here may have watched all on my list but only because I have been boorishly lauding them in this forum for years. I doubt any consider most of them to be favorites.
LOL
JUST couldn't resist spellin' my handle around here with that...well, YOU know!
(...so my dear...which o' my five might you not be all that big a fan of here, anyway?...don't worry, I won't get into any big debate with ya about this if you respond...would just like to know, that's all, and because and as you know, I've always valued your opinions very highly)
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5 hours ago, Sepiatone said:
There's no doubt about who the few "stars" in this 'toon are.
Sepiatone
Yeah, I think I recognized most of 'em in it Sepia, but who were those four guys who pop out of Krazy Kat's piano supposed to be???
(...they LOOK familiar but...)
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Hello and welcome to the boards here, Jillian. I found your introductory post very impressive and well presented.
Coincidentally, my second favorite film also happens to be The Apartment.
I also have to say that I thought what a paradox it seemed that your favorite film They Shoot Horses, Don't They? was one of the two most depressive but excellently done films about the human condition, along with The Last Picture Show, I can recall watching. And yet, in your "bonus" selection you stated that you prefer the earlier television production of Requiem for a Heavyweight over the later done theatrical released version (I do too, btw) and then later made note of the earlier done TV version's more optimistic ending, and so hence what I saw as the aforementioned paradox here.
Well anyway, here are what I would say would be my top ten favorite films of all time:
1- The Best Years of Our Lives
2- The Apartment
3- Singin' in the Rain
4- Casablanca
5- The Third Man
6- Out of the Past
7- Sunset Blvd
8- Dr. Strangelove
9- A Night at the Opera
10- It's a Wonderful Life
(...once again, welcome)
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4 minutes ago, Moe Howard said:
Vectors where made in Venice for a while, I lived there so we'd see them buzzing around occasionally. There was a show recently on Motortrend channel about Vector and Wiegert the guy who owned the company. After you hear him rattle on, you wonder how the company lasted as long as it did, it's all him, he did everything, on and on. The guy still wants to kill Andre Agassi who he blames for damaging his companies rep. Google that if you don't know the story.
Hat's off man. Good for you with the art/design thing. We have art school in common. Did your F1 employ the three seat configuration? If so, I'd dig that art out and call an Attorney.
I get it, the look isn't for everyone. My girlfriend at the time used to say my car looked like a refrigeration unit.
LOL
Nope, the only rendering I did of my car was a 3/4 view of it just like this shot of this F1...
It had the very same split front grill, the same headlight positioning and look, the same flow over the the wheelwells in profile, and same angle and width to the A and C pillars, and the same overall subtle wedge shape as does this F1 here. It didn't have that over-cockpit air-induction intake, though.
(...sure hope I can find that old rendering, and then you'd see)
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4 minutes ago, slaytonf said:
I like the tone of this thread to be celebratory and upbeat, and--well, you know. That's why I generally steer clear of criticism beyond saying something is not nice. The Countach offers easy opportunity for biting satire, but I resist (something for which I will feel quite superior for all next week). Instead I will deflect people's attention from conflict to areas of ready agreement. And movies.
Apropos of Cutter's Way (1981), a movie good enough to hold my attention for about an hour, we get a 1966 Austin Healey 3000 BJ8:
Hm, not a great pic, but no loss, as Bone's Healey is in bad shape. Here's a better pic:
You should prompt Lorna over here slayton, as he said he wasn't familiar with the Austin-Healey marque in the Noir Alley thread.
(...that's a beautiful shot of one here too, btw)
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And to finish my "F1" thought up there, Moe...
I guess what I was sayin' was basically...
"...in the car design biz, but got sucked into that Airline thing instead!"
LOL
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While I know she's a real, well you know, in much of the film, I'm kind'a surprised that no one as yet mentioned this young lady (although another character in the film would disagee vehemently with the term "lady" being ascribed to her here) who got her strength from the red earth of Tara...
(...although maybe I should've waited until our friend leighcat spotted this thread)
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8 hours ago, Moe Howard said:
The early model is just too plain for me Dargo, and those rears are simply not adequate. 85 was my year, and while I know that rear wing is actually an encumbrance, the car needs it. Love the look. Love the American made Vector too. But that car will have to wait for another lifetime.
1991 Vector W8 in Rising Sun 1993
After these, few later cars do much for me, so I kinda understand where slayton is coming from. I haven't liked anything from Lambo since the 85 model. None of the hyper/super/whatever cars. If I was younger and could pull it off I'd still be chasing a streetable Porsche 917 knockoff, or Mclaren F1, or Vector W8. All well beyond my retirement pocketbook these days.
First here Moe and regarding the Vector...
My old Beck 550 Spyder (sold it recently ya know, and purchased a 2020 Fiat Abarth 124 Spider as its replacement...love the car so far, but I digress) was parked at the Starbucks here in Sedona a few years back. A guy walked up to me and asked if the 550 was mine, and we started talking. He told me that he also lived in Sedona and soon got around to telling me that he was one of the guys who worked on the Vector's design. We then discussed that company's trials and tribulations for about an hour. Nice guy. Wish I could remember his name, and haven't run into him since.
I wonder what the few Vectors ever made are going for now.
Secondly, and regarding the McLaren F1...
Flashback to the year 1970. I'm a young man of 18 who was VERY good at auto design and rendering pictures of cars of my own design. For two years and starting when I was 16, I had taken Saturday art classes in car design given by a man named Bruce Bollinger and who had retired after working under Harley Earle and Bill Mitchell at GM and had moved back to his hometown of L.A. My ambition was to attend Pasadena's Art Center College of Design, the school from where Mr. Bollinger and so many other established car designers plying their trade for the one of the Detroit car makers at the time had graduated.
Well anyway, in 1970 I drew a car of my own design that looked uncannily like the F1. Fast forward two decades and when the F1 first debuted I couldn't help thinking that they had somehow "stolen" my design. I might still have that rendering around here somewhere, and if I can find it, I'll post a pic of it in this thread to prove what I'm telling ya here.
(...and btw, I still say I like the clean, uncluttered and yes maybe "plain" lines of the original Countach over all the following models)
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40 minutes ago, Moe Howard said:
Dargo, you ever been on a boat that size without a radio? Or did I miss it getting shot out or something.
I like the banter between the two. I agree Eddie's the teacher, Ben is the reluctant student who makes some interesting contributions. He does seem to have a little bit of a 'tude about his family name, like he deserves extra credit because relatives did stuff.
It's all good though. I like them both and as these themes have gone, Neo-Noir Fridays blows the hell out of "problematic films" (that really aren't) or the God awful Astrology nonsense.
Well said, and I absolutely agree with ya here, Moe.
(...and yes, you'd think a boat that size would have had a radio, wouldn't ya...wasn't it about the same size as the Santana was?...you know, the boat with the radio that Bogie used after he dispatched Eddie G. and his gang while returing to Key Largo)
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And now for one MORE smart*** remark to follow and regarding this post of yours, Tex...
59 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:Ben is two generations removed from his Hollywood relatives, if that's what you meant by his past. He was born in Washington, D.C. , and started his career as a broadcast journalist. His father was a politician and journalist. His father was one of the people that influenced the decision to end the U.S.'s adoption of the metric system.
Well okay, sure. While Ben might not be as knowledgeable about movies as one might think he should be, as a counterweight to this, AT LEAST he's always had that beautiful, mellifluously resonant voice of his to fall back on, RIGHT???!!!
LOL
(...told ya it was gonna be another smart*** remark here, now didn't I?!)
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7 minutes ago, txfilmfan said:
Ben is two generations removed from his Hollywood relatives, if that's what you meant by his past. He was born in Washington, D.C. , and started his career as a broadcast journalist. His father was a politician and journalist. His father was one of the people that influenced the decision to end the U.S.'s adoption of the metric system.
Interesting. Didn't know about the metric system thing here, Tex.
So in other words, Frank was bright enough to realize that the average American would never be bright enough to understand it then, right?!
(...OR, "American Exceptionalism" at its "finest")
LOL
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1 hour ago, Moe Howard said:
He probably tripped over a pile of line falling into the bullet.
Eddie and Ben both must be landlubbers too, they also said he could be circling bleeding to death. They were all upset over Hackman's breach in sports etiquette stating the losing score before the winning, while they overlook the obvious life saving items always shipboard.
And which reminds me here...
While I've noticed many around here stating their dislike of having Ben sitting in with Eddie during these Neo-Noir wraparounds, I have to say I haven't felt this being that much of a negative. I sort of like having Ben there for Eddie to bounce ideas and the specs of these films off of, and in a way think their conversations as a nice little divergent manner in which to impart the specs of these films and instead of having Eddie talking directly to us and as he does on Noir Alley.
However and with being said, what HAS surprised me the most about this is that it seems Ben isn't as knowledgeable about films, and especially this genre of film, as I would've thought he might be.
(...in fact, I've gotten the idea and often feel that Eddie is pretty much "schooling" Ben on these films, and films I would've thought Ben would have had at least a passing knowledge of from his past and not as it sometimes seems that Eddie has assigned these films as "homework" for Ben to watch before their conversations commence)
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23 minutes ago, sagebrush said:
What I could never figure out was why Nora wanted Dr. Talbot. He was a clingy coward and she was smart, talented and compassionate. She should have gone for Phil; at least he was a man!
This reminds me of a relationship dynamics in another film (a film that I've always very much liked and starring two actors that I've always very much liked) but could never understand what the strong, gorgeous, smart character that Hedy Lamarr played in the film H.M.Pulham, Esq. ever saw in Robert Young's eponymous buttoned-down character.
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And speaking of Ann Sheridan, there's ya an actress who was always very good at playing strong women.
(...strong AND savvy, in fact)
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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:
Well, I ask because Eagels (who was fragile in real life and died young due to dependency on drugs) imbues her performance with a lot of 'weakness' yet she is still strong enough to pull the trigger and get up on the stand and commit perjury to protect herself.
In the remake, Bette's character does not take the stand which gives it another dimension.
There was another version, THE UNFAITHFUL (1947) with Ann Sheridan. Of course, in THE UNFAITHFUL, she is has killed in self-defense and gets a chance to save her marriage.
It's also been a while since I've watched the Sheridan film, but I do recall that her character as being more sympathetic and due to the self-defense aspect.
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Just now, TopBilled said:
Interesting take on it.
Have you seen the 1929 original with Jeanne Eagels?
Yes, but quite a while ago, though. As I recall, Miss Eagels' portrayal lacked some of the nuance that Bette Davis was able to give to the character.
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3 hours ago, TopBilled said:
Bette Davis movies feature our star playing a strong female character...
even if she's on the wrong side of the law, in THE LETTER (1940):
Interesting here, TB. You see, I've never thought of Bette's character in The Letter as being "strong".
Nope, I've always thought of her character as being the opposite of strong, and as in her weakness "of flesh" and in her weakness to be honest about her dire actions after being rejected by her illict lover.
(...she may have seemed "strong willed" in this film, but I've always felt this stemmed from a very fragile and weak ego)
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5 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:
in his book ALTERNATE OSCARS, author DANNY PEARY argues that JOHN HEARD should have won the 1981 BEST ACTOR OSCAR for CUTTER'S WAY.
Not a bad point to make here, Lorna. Yes, Heard is terrific in this film.
However, if Mr. Peary in his book didn't also say the same sort of thing about Lisa Eichhorn's performance in this film, then he was remiss in this.
(...and because I thought she was terrific in it too)
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So, is anybody else but me here now thinkin' of this old song after reading over the previous post?...