Sgt_Markoff

Written by Alan Alda. I've purchased and read a copy of his early draft for the script. It's nice, but a little too tame. Redford's "The Candidate" blows it outta da water. I love the aging Melvyn Douglas's work in all those twilight-of-his-career assignments. So charming. He's in 'Candidate' too. Meanwhile, I loathe Meryl Streep. Gag!

I attended both 'Rififi' and 'Army of Shadows' that festival. Was it specifically a noir fest? Or was it just some kind of crime gala? You can find some kooks at that venue. I remember one little guy specifically crept across the aisle to me and my woman prior to a film's rolling and wanted to make some kind of 'pact' with me 'not to create any noise during the film'. He wanted me to swear not to rustle my paper popcorn bag --in return for which assurance, he vowed to follow suit.

The problem lies in the type of argument used to identify film noir. A deductive argument should always be used; but most of these threads about 'the confusion over what is noir' use atrocious inductive or abductive arguments. It wreaks chaos.

For American flicks, I have sub-divided and segregated rankings like "Top Ten US", "Top 25 US", "Top 50 US", "Top 250 US". I do the same for France, Asia, England, and the Russkies. Then a list for "My Personal Favorites" vs a list of "Objective Picks for All-Time Best Movies Ever Made" For a quick-and-dirty Top Ten, I might just rattle off at random... The Bridge on the River Kwai Mr. Smith Goes to Washington Stalag 17 2001 The Wild Bunch Gunga Din Beau Geste Meet John Doe My Darling Clementine Apocalypse Now

I'm not a fan of any version of this story. Needless sensationalism. Instead, "La Nuit De Varennes" finds favor with me. Or better yet, "The Duellists". Also enjoy the Salkinds' "Three Musketeers"

Movies on Demand?

"The Thirty-Nine Steps"!? ::banging forehead on keyboard::

Yeah. Enjoy one of these 'in-name-only' noirs ("visual-style") and then...maybe saunter down to the local hospital and offer to help out the docs performing heart surgery because ...you've seen pictures of operations...

Two excellent, informative, and unusual articles by none other than the Mises Institute in Vienna (one of the foremost economic think-tanks in the world). https://mises.org/library/how-antitrust-ruined-movies https://mises.org/library/hollywood-and-state-longtime-partnership This is not to say that the economic thought of Ludwig von Mises is correct or that I myself adhere to it (I do not). But the institute is a source for reliable analysis. This can be agreed upon, even if one feels their conclusions always-too-strongly favor free-market theories in public policy-planning. Either way, you'll nonetheless find these two briefs enjoyable reading. A three-fer: https://tinyurl.com/yapghsm5

I can't agree. The story was about good men vs evil men; a mini-encapsulation of history --politics, traditionally a male profession. Therefore, female politicians would have been anomalous; would have made this theme get entirely muddled. It would have torn our loyalties.

Keir Dullea, Sandy Dennis, and Anne Heywood are hot-and-heavy in 'The Fox'. That was also probably a stage play. I don't know what to say about Keir's acting. I always found him effective and crisp. Intense at times. Always seemed energetic and keen on giving a good account of himself.

LeBrand: It died in Pittsburgh. Hadrian: Like a dog! John L. Sullivan: Aw, what do they know in Pittsburgh... Hadrian: They know what they like. John L. Sullivan: If they knew what they liked, they wouldn't live in Pittsburgh! --Sullivan's Travels, 1941

Shootings every three months on average. Like I have time for that? All the 'official' press-release and town-hall verbiage is exactly the same sanctimonious, flowery, half-hearted, maudlin BS every time. "The management and staff of (_x__campus, _ x__mall, _x__city) extends our deepest (alternately: 'most heartfelt') sympathies ...to the grieving families and loved-ones ...of the unfortunate victims of this shocking tragedy...now, however, is when we need to all pull together in a time for healing..." ("Hey! How about getting rid of handguns and assault weapons, Senator?") "Next question, please..ah yes--you have your hand up --there in the back..."

Only on the internet... can a made-for-TV vampire horror movie get labeled 'film noir'.

I always used to purchase my DVD's at Bob's Movies.

His delivery of barbed wit in "All About Eve" was a clinic in the mixing of acid. Hard to believe you found that dull. (Yep, 'Sand Man'. I like to re-moniker things on-the-fly).

GRRRROAN-N-N-N ! ! ! !

Yes, that is what I was referring to. The only case I know of where that was a motive for shucking off one's mortal coil. He's famous for it.

p.s. What shooting in Pittsburgh? Meh, nvm, gave up keeping track of that kind of thing long ago

How about 'Born to Kill'?

Aye. He sure chose an unusual means of departing this sad vale-of-tears. That, at least, always sticks in one's mind with regard to the Sand Man...

^^^Well those are some reviews I sure wanna take a gander at

Yes; that's a fair and apt statement. The filming style for a particular flick, (hard-boiled, etc) might look like noir ...but the narrative may not be noir in the slightest. Conceivably, you might even wind up with a happy ending at the finale of a hard-boiled story. That just wouldn't fly (in noir). Right? And then with regard specifically to a hard-boiled detective story, my disagreement doesn't rest purely on my own opinion at all. Tons of research has been done to attest to the various storytelling "structures" of the detective realm. None of them --so far as I know-- match the typical noir narrative. This is an interesting topic if you want to kick it around sometime.

No need for apologies; I don't mind your disagreement. You're an experienced movie-goer and naturally have well-formed views of your own. We're having a grand discussion here. Fruitful and rewarding (and good exercise for the little grey cells). To extend your metaphor here: it seems as if you're just not ready to align with me on the notion that different genres have different structures. The way different kinds of animals have different DNA; (but sometimes different animals share some DNA). For support in this area I nominate famed literary critic Northrop Frye. He settles that question in the affirmative, if no one else ever did. But he's just one among many who do so.

Exactly the opposite! They all did. Every true noir was deliberately set out upon. Deliberate in the sense that the teams were always given a low budget; deliberate in the sense that teams were always given minimal resources and deliberate in the sense that teams were always bound to make a strong story. Deliberate in the sense too, that they couldn't be overtly salacious or graphic. Ultimately, what unites all *true* noirs is that the production teams had no choice. They had to find a new narrative style to meet all these requirements. But this very notion, flies-in-the-face of the studio reality of making B-pictures. The basis from which noirs sprung. Teams which made B-pictures were typically kept together. See Don Miller's book on B-Movie making (if you haven't already). The most powerful noirs give audiences a 'visceral' reaction; a 'churning in the gut'; a 'sinking' feeling. It is specifically noir which delivers this involuntary sensation; no other form of storytelling does it. It's not something you can "choose" or "decide upon". Its not a style you can idly, individually, mull over and 'agree with' or not. Thus: how is it "subjective" (your phrase) when so many viewers report on it so uniformly? How can noir be claimed to be present in a variety of random, widely-dissimilar other movies which don't invoke this feeling at all? Absolutely not. This is almost the worst thing you could say about it. This statement renders noir into something trite or ornamental, silly, or ineffectual. When it is none of these things. Film noir is distinct from all other genres; and is one of the reasons its discovery is so important and singular. A "noirish tint" ...accidentally surfacing ...in an A-list crime-drama is not noir. Noir did not spring up by 'accident' or as a luxury--but rather, from cold dire necessity and hardship. Ehh. I'm not including whatever BS they pull in modern filmmaking. I'm referring to classic movies. Sure it was, that in the studio era you could contrive 'hybrids' of many kinds. Haunted house comedies, musical numbers in sci-fi, or comedians in space-westerns, but arguably two things you never saw were graphic sex or bloody physical violence. These visceral, primitive, 'adult' elements do not easily cross genre boundaries back then. They're too powerful; too shocking. You couldn't ever consciously set out to combine or infuse these "no-no" sensations into some other formula. Nor could they get there by random chance. The film would be flagged. The same rules applied to noir. The timeperiod and the system itself forbid mixing-and-matching; and moreover: the working method for noir doesnt lend itself to anything else but noir. You just can't set out to do some kind of half-hearted or hybrid film and wind up accidentally with noir. The storytelling structure for it is all wrong; the goal and purpose of noir lead viewers down a specific road which you cant return from. And the storytelling structure of noir simply matches nothing else in its neighbors. Noir definitely did have set of traits which were identified and discovered ...after-the-fact. Look at it this way: we know that film noir is famous for its gut-wrenching narratives that make you almost physically nauseous. "Low-budget" was also present in most productions. So: does that means you can simply wander on to some other low-budget set and find anyone else maybe ...making noir? Just because they have that hallmark? No! It just doesn't work that way. A=B does not mean B=A. Even asking "what makes noir?" is not the right question because you can't remake it by following in anyone else's footsteps. Its different than when someone asks you "hey, what kinds of horror scare you?" since we are all terrified by a variety (bugs, sharks, fire, flood, ghosts, etc). Lots of horror plots can scare us. The noir checklist exists, but has just one item on it; and that is the physical feeling of dread or impending doom. So powerful it makes you shrink down in your seat. The remainder of any such checklist is immaterial since you can't recreate noir using checklists (and you certainly can't create it 'by accident'). Whew! Long post! I feel better now getting all that off my chest!