Filmgoddess

James: Haven't you learned by now that I'm always over-the-top and always overstate things? LOL. I'm very self-aware. Anyone who thinks Stanwyck is manly hasn't seen a single one of her films. I think Davis brought a certain something to her best roles that it's hard to imagine anyone else bringing. At her best, she's easily in the top 3 or 4 of actresses in film history. I don't rank her number one because I've always placed more emphasis on an actress being able to be versatile which is why I've always thought that Irene Dunne is the most underrated actress in film history. I also think Davis' career is marred, IMHO, by how she became such a caricature so early. I find her barely watchable after around 1945. It's shocking that she didn't get better like Stanwyck or even Crawford did. I don't know why that is. So, we're splitting hairs here about number 1 vs. number 2. Both are in the top and we're lucky we had them.

To be honest, that "substance" is still also only their opinions. I agree with you about the criteria. I also think that noir is something akin to Lewis Powell's definition of what is obscene: "I know it when I see it." First, yes it must be in black and white. Second, there is no noir made after 1960 since it really is of a certain time period. Third, there must be a femme fatale who is up to no good. Fourth, there are no good guys, everyone is flawed in some way. The visuals are very important. There must be light and dark and shadow. But the "feeling" is even more important. There must be this feeling of being among people without the normal moral scruples that most people subscribe to. The nature of the characters is very important. I don't think the two leading characters in HEAVEN are noir-like in any way. It's a good, old-fashioned melodrama (and one I love by the way). There are good guys and good girls and then there's the manipulative leading lady. Sounds like the plot of almost any Bette Davis movie.

I have a love/hate relationship with this holiday classic. On the "love" side there's Bing, Rosemary Clooney, Dean Jagger, Mary Wickes, and great Irving Berlin tunes. On the "hate" side there's Danny Kaye. And more Danny Kaye. And yet even more Danny Kaye. There's those garish costumes. Then there's Vera-Ellen. It's sometimes painful to watch her. The signs of her anorexia are so evident. Her legs are so stick-like that John Barascia (sp?) the muscular young man she dances with has arms that are bigger than her legs. It makes me sad to see her. It's odd that this film is better known than the far superior HOLIDAY INN from 12 years earlier. Still, I end up liking it because I like the story and, thanks to DVDs and DVRs, I can fast forward through all the really bad Danny Kaye bits including the worst musical number ever put on film: choreography. That one almost makes me physically sick. It's hard to believe that Kaye was once a major star and that he was considered a great entertained. Today, when I think of the word "date" Kaye is always who comes to mind. There is nothing about his antics that is appealing today. On top of that, he's the most feminine person in the film. And that's not a good thing. I really hate the way they make White Christmas into this over-the-top production number complete with tiny ballerinas .... egads. It's really awful. It's a simple, beautiful song and the producers don't seem to understand that. There's nothing subtle about it. But, then there's Bing and Rosie. You have to love them. They're perfect together. Those old standbys Dean Jagger (the same age as Bing but playing a father figure) and Mary Wickes are just a delight from start to finish. I do love the sentimental story. So I watch it every year, love and hate the same things, but I can't imagine not having the film part of my annual Christmas experience.

Manly? Okay, your'e on the ignore list.

To quote Jessica Tandy in DRIVING MISS DAISY "I think I'm going to spit up."

I will gather with 3 or 4 friends for a dinner and watch IT's A WONDERFUL LIFE. Then I'll go to bed early because I give an annual New Year's Day Buffet for 50 people! Happy New Year!

Just about every single woman involved with JFK ended badly. You'd think they'd learn, huh?

James: even if it's in a book, it's still an opinion. There is no impirical right or wrong here. And yes, I define noir very narrowly otherwise just about every film will get dumped in that category because the phrase has become so popular. That's exactly what has happened and I deplore that. My analogy would be the martini. There is only ONE martini. It contains gin and a drop or two of vermouth. It doesn't contain vodka or chocolate or apple liquer or anything else. If it does, then it ain't a martini no matter that someone calls it such.

Finance: you're right. What actor would want to play that role? Gosh, I really hate that film. It's one of the few films that actually makes my skin hurt. Woody Allen did it better in ZELIG without Tom Hanks and without all the treacly, maudlin bits thrown in.

James: if being an elitist was the criteria under which one judges what is good or bad, then I would venture to say that the Pulitizer Prize for music would be a good guide of what is good in music. Ask yourself this ... when is the last time you even heard of one of the recipients of that prize yet alone encountered the piece of music in question? I rest my case.

Didn't he write "Ebony and Ivory?" Yah, right, okay. I'll take Irving Berlin's "What do to with a General, when he stops being a general" over anything that Stevie Wonder has written

Pish posh!

I don't think there has been a single post here "insulting" this poster. And I'll disagree with you further. There is nothing intellectually "normal" about starting to watch a movie and be so "shocked" by the use of a little rough language and some bare skin as to cause you to shut it off, run to your computer, and post a public complaint. I'm definitely willing to say that's odd, abnormal, and crazy. I'd dare say that I'd be afraid to live under the same roof with a person who exhibited that kind of behavior. Here endeth the lesson.

darblue: correct, it is the family member that the OP should have complained to. Instead, they came to the TCM board and decided to blame TCM. Shame on them. And they registered their account 4 years ago and have contributed exactly 15 posts in that time. That makes them a "newbie" to me, and if I may be so bold, infers something else ... that they're not much interested in discussing film with others on this board (clue: they don't tell us a thing about the film they actually watched!) but rather just want to complain.

Absolutely, those films on Hallmark are so paper thin .... but nice to see so many good-looking men!

As I said, he gave 2 or 3 really great performances (Waterfront, Streetcar, Godfather) but then he gave around 30 or 40 truly dreadful performances so I can't possibly rank him very high. As a matter of fact, I'd rank him pretty low. ANYONE is capable of 2 or 3 great performances but the true greats (Stanwyck, Tracy, Stewart, Dunne, de Havilland, and tons of others!) manage to give consistently great performances over many years. That's why I think Brando is vastly overrated. I also don't like comparing actors who give totally different kinds of performances. In the debate about Davis and Stanwyck (who really appeared in completely different kinds of films for the most part) it comes down to this: can I picture either playing the other's roles? In Stanwyck's case, I can't see Davis playing STELLA DALLAS, INDEMNITY, THE LADY EVE, or BALL OF FIRE. In Davis' case, I can definitely see Barbara in HUMAN BONDAGE, DARK VICTORY, NOW VOYAGER, ALL ABOUT EVE. So I'll take Barbara over Davis. In some cases, we just enjoy someone's performances more which is why I'd take Myrna Loy, Olivia de Havilland, Irene Dunne, and Ingrid Bergman over Davis. OF COURSE, I don't want to do without any of these ladies and it will be a cold day in hell before you'd pry my copies of JEZEBEL, NOW VOYAGER, ALL ABOUT EVE, IN THIS OUR LIFE, THE LETTER, or THE LITTLE FOXES out of my cold dead hands

Swithin: I'm not sure who "Santa Barbara" is -- a variation on Santa Baby, perhaps? But I think you're quite alone on this subject

I'll be happy to discuss any number of "rear ends" at any point

Not just George Brent but, more specifically, his "rear!"

I'd be willing to be that most of the recluses in the world live in NYC. We all know them. They live in apartment buildings, never talk to their neighbors, stack cans outside their front door, watch TV, rarely go out, have 12 dogs and cats. NYC is the easiest place in the world to be a recluse.

If you've been one of the biggest stars in the world and you choose not to speak to a single living human being about your career, about your films, you refuse to appear before a camera or give an interview. That to me is the very definition of "reclusive." The fact that you still walk only means that you still walk. She didn't walk around talking to anyone and everyone she encountered. She warded off any contact any one made. That, to me, is a recluse. Recluse doesn't just mean that you hole up in your house with the food being passed under the door.

That is a matter of opinion. You have one, I have another. This is not right or wrong. Oh, and to me LEAVE HER TO HEAVEN is not a noir. It's a melodrama. Period. A rather good one.

It's a nice song but I've never been able to figure out what it's doing in that film. It just doesn't fit.

I don't watch any movie with the "Toms" in it .... was it actually written for that movie? I think of movie songs as songs that were written for a movie not just on the soundtrack.

I had an uncle who was involved in Broadway and Hollywood for many, many years and I got to meet lots of interesting people. At the time of the wedding, he arranged for a number of telegrams and letters to be sent to me on our wedding day. I still have most of them framed on the wall. I wrote to each and every one and thanked them and some of the responses were even better than the original telegrams! I met the Cronyns once, after that, and they were delightful but I can, in no way, shape or form say that I "knew" them.