ValeskaSuratt

> {quote:title=misswonderly wrote:}{quote} > I find it kind of interesting that this very fine film received no attention on these boards, except for the original poster here. Nobody responded to this thread until I did. How come? The Browning Version is an exceptionally good film, and one of the best I can think of that's been made into a movie from a play. > > I cannot help but suspect that North American audiences simply don't "get" British films, or at least don't care for them half as much as their beloved Hollywood productions. > I think it's partly because we boisterously expressive Americans have a hard time relating to the famous British "reserve." I mean, all that icy-cold cruelty Richardson's wife inflicts on him is very Who Feareth Virginia Woolf ?

Saratoga Trunk is one of my all-time faves ... one of those films that each time I see it, I notice something new. This morning it was the fact that Bergman's character, Clio Dulaine, is bi-polar -- she has a full-blown manic episode after arriving in Saratoga, then passes out for two days to recuperate. Supposedly, Jack Warner bought the property for Errol Flynn (who would have been great) and Bette Davis (who would have been ... interesting?) but scheduling conflicts interfered. Other actresses who tested for Clio included Ann Sheridan, Olivia De Havilland, Eleanor Parker and Tamara Toumanova but it's hard to imagine any of them being better than Ingrid. And while Flora Robson (under all that make-up) was nominated for Best Supporting Actress, I think Jerry Austin as Clio's servant Cupidon steals all his scenes. When he begs Clint (Gary Cooper) to let him go along for the huge railroad fight but Coop keeps calling him "little man," telling him to go home and "take care of the women," and finally Cupidon looks up at him, terribly hurt but with such dignity, and says "I'm a MAN !" ... heart-breaking.

> Ridiculous story, even for a Hollywood movie. And why is that insane montage at the beginning? I've heard explanations of it, but it seem a relic of an earlier version. I know, right ??? -- just like in "Night at the Opera" when all those people just show up in Groucho's stateroom at exactly the same time ? No way would that ever happen ... /end attempt at gentle ribbing Safe to say that "ridiculous story," "overplaying," and "insane montage" are just a few of the bizarre but essential elements of a Preston Sturges farce. Or, as the Princess Centimillia (Mary Astor) would have said it: "Nyeetz, Toto !! NYEETZ !!!":^0

TCMFan23, Kenneth Anger (rhymes with "hanger") was born in 1927 and initially became famous as an underground experimental filmmaker, ultimately racking up over 40 short films. Though lauded by an eclectic mix of "intellegentsia" (from Mick Jagger to the Kinsey Institute), neither Anger nor his work are likely to show up on TCM anytime soon owing to his films very "adult" content and his own unpredictable behavior -- for example, commenting loudly throughout the eulogy at a friend's funeral. Hollywood Babylon was first published in French in 1959 and a U.S. version finally appeared in 1965, followed a decade later with a sequel cleverly called Hollywood Babylon II. As of late, Anger has announced completion of Hollywood Babylon III but claims it can't be published for fear of severe legal repercussions (specifically, he says, because of his chapter about Tom Cruise and Scientology). Virtually devoid of any sourcing, the two published volumes have nonetheless become "cult classics" due to their smarmy tone, salacious details, and decadent disrespect, the latter typified by graphic photos of Jayne Mansfield's fatal car accident and Lewis Stone's body lying in a driveway following his fatal heart attack. That these historical hack-jobs have done permanent damage is best exemplified by the rudely revisionist version of Lupe Velez' 1944 suicide contained in (as Anger calls it) "Holy Baby I." Rather than remembered for her beauty, comedic timing, or stature as one of the first Hispanic movie stars in Hollywood, Google her name today and the THIRD item is "Did Lupe Velez really drown in the toilet?" Never mind that such a grisly, undignified scene is found nowhere in the coroner's report, witness statements or newspaper accounts of the day. In Anger's catty commentary, Velez' attempted Seconal overdose is undone by violent nausea, causing her to stagger to the bathroom to be sick where, he writes, "she slipped on the tiles and plunged headfirst into her black Egyptian onyx, Hush-Flush model deluxe ...The scoop macabre was the one Louella had been sitting on." Of the many who've attacked the books' veracity, esteemed film historian Kevin Brownlow has lead the charge, describing Anger's research as "Mental telepathy, apparently." Further evidence comes from a post on Allan Ellenberger's wonderful site, Hollywoodland: "Among his other claims, Anger has said that he was the Changeling Prince in the 1935 A Midsummer Night’s Dream, even publishing pictures from the film in his books. It turns out that Anger obviously exaggerated this fact (imagine that) and the role was actually played by a girl named Sheila Brown. Reportedly, costars Mickey Rooney and Olivia De Havilland have confirmed this and the Warner Bros. studio casting forms and call sheets have identified Sheila Brown as the child actress who played the Prince." http://allanellenberger.com/book-flm-news/a-prediction-by-kenneth-anger/ Essentially, Hollywood Babylon I & II are the print equivalent of Wilson Mizner's opinion of Tinsel Town: "a trip through a sewer in a glass-bottomed boat." And I ought to know -- total hypocrite that I am, they've been stinking up MY bookshelves for over 30 years. Ashamedly, Valeska

> {quote:title=SansFin wrote:}{quote}I hope there is a celebration of some sort on this site for his birthday. He is a wonderful man and many of us love him dearly even although we have never met him. > > I do not think it would be appropriate to have considerable notice taken of it on the channel. There is a dividing line between personal life and professional life. Any promotion of the personal detracts from the presentation of the material. It is much the same as a reputable journalist does not inject their self into their coverage. Excellent point, well put. My earlier post should have included something like: "Of the many reasons TCM may not acknowledge RO's birthday, here's the first hypothetical conspiracy theory that came to mind." I've been off my game ever since the aliens abducted me.

> {quote:title=rover27 wrote:}{quote} And the man is in his late 70s, I believe. > Robert will turn 80 on May 3rd. Does anyone know if TCM is planning any sort of celebration ? I would hope they aren't planning on downplaying it out of fear it would turn off younger viewers. I hate to think they'd succumb to such ageism -- especially when the majority of their viewers are 40+. Or maybe Bob prefers no fuss be made ? IMHO, he alone makes the case that America needs to create an honor equivalent to England's knighthood. That fantasy aside, what's the most appropriate way to mark his 80th ?

Can't even write it without puddling up: *"I'm frightened, Auntie Em! I'm frightened!"*

> {quote:title=finance wrote:}{quote}Did he ever actually state his name during the interview? Maybe he DIDN'T remember it. I thought he did, right at the beginning ... "Hello, I'm Teter O'Poole ... I mean, Pooter O'Teele ... um, Tooty O'Pooty ... oh, for $%# sake, Rawbuht, awsk me something else ... "

Considering he was 79, and spent so many years indulging in what's been described as "heavy drinking, even by heavy drinking standards," it's a miracle he remembered his own name ...

MovieProfessor, Thanks for the info on the PBS docu .. I'm actually more curious about the whole history of cinema acting ... f''rinstance, re: Method Acting: * Why it impacted the movies so strongly that Marilyn Monroe would become an acolyte in mid-career ... (It was better than her rabbit's foot ?) * Why it became such a phenomenon that even folks in the hinterlands might have heard of it ... (Brando's looks didn't hurt, and his "realistic" line readings generated both controversy and parody ... I vaguely recall one by Stan Freberg. ... ) * What the acceptance of the Method's level of "realism" -- characterized by detractors as "stuttering" and "nose picking" -- might say about movie audiences of the 50s ... (Like that they'd become tired of the traditional "grand" style of acting and wanted stars who seemed more like themselves ?) But heck, YOU'RE the expert ... so re: producing a history of movie acting for TCM, let's just put you down as a definite maybe for now ... ?

MovieProfessor, I've wished for a long time that someone would produce a documentary on the history of acting in the movies, starting with its roots in the old declamatory style of the late 19th century theater and tracing its evolution into the (supposed) "realism" of today. Among the topics: the impact of stage acting enlarged to nickleodeon screen-size ... how early cinema actors coped with the lack of scripted dialogue ... the revolutions caused by the introduction of close-ups and then sound ... the many performers -- Theda Bara, Greta Garbo, James Dean, Robert DeNro, etc. -- whose style or training (like the Method) resulted in re-defining "great" acting ... the relationship between movie acting and how people behave in real life ... it really could be a fascinating show ... Based on your posts here ... ? Please do it. Anxiously awaiting an airdate, I remain Yours (platonically speaking), Valeska

A great place to unbury such treasures is YouTube. Is this it ? http://tinyurl.com/7hs6p8f

Such a great list, fredbaetz, I can't resist ... Insteada: 1. John Wayne as Genghis Khan, head of the Mongol Empire, in "The Conqueror" ... ? YUL BRYNNER, ANTHONY QUINN or VICTOR MATURE. 2. Marlon Brando as Sakini, a Japanese farmer/conman, in "Teahouse of the August Moon" ... ? PETER LORRE or PETER SELLERS. 3. Clint Eastwood singing love ballads in "Paint Your Wagon" ... ? ROBERT GOULET, GEORGE CHAKIRIS or (if their singing could be acceptably dubbed) ROBERT REDFORD or WARREN BEATTY. 4. Mickey Rooney as Japanese neighbor of Holly Golightly in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" ... ? SESSUE HAYAKAWA ! (He could've just reprised his character from "Bridge on the River Kwai" ...) 5. Melanie Griffith as a N.Y. cop undercover as a Hasidid Jewess in "A Stranger Among Us" ... ? Tough one. DEBRA WINGER ? ... BARBRA STREISAND ? (no way she'd have done it though it could've been a great career move) ... or else turn it into a comedy with either BETTE MIDLER or MISS PIGGY.

slaytonf, Hard as it is for this Roz & Alec fan, I totally agree. The nominee for a "Mis-Casty Award" that springs instantly to mind is Dragon Seed with Katharine "Jade Tan" Hepburn. I have others ... (What self-respecting cinemaddict does NOT have lists of "Bests," "Worsts" and "Shoulda Beens" ?) But the "Mis-Casties" changed for me a few years ago when a similarly deranged fellow Hollywoodphile and I created our own little trivia game in which we got to re-cast our Most Mis-cast movies. We called it "Insteada." Say that you can go back in time and "correctly" cast, say, A Majority of One ... BUT you have to do it within the rough "parameters" of the industry as it was then -- and while It DOES help to know a heap of Hollywood trivia, it can also be a hoot Googling for casting ideas along with who's hot and who's not, who "just" starred in what films, who's freelance and who would have to be loaned out, who's been branded a Commie, a drunk or a pervert ... who's sworn that they'll NEVER work with that louse "So-and-So" again ... EVER ! ... etc. Fortunately, in your favor, you are reeeally powerful and pursuasive ... So ... Bam ! It's 1960 - 61 and Majority of One is in pre-production at Warner Bros -- which means Jack Warner is still stalking the halls, looking for fresh victims to tell his terrible, tasteless jokes to. You're co-producing with Mervyn Leroy, he's also directing, and the script is by Leonard Spiegelglass (no slouch !) who adapted it from his hit stage play. So insteada Roz ... WHO ? 1. Gotta Go There: she played it on Broadway for Leonard and it ran over a year ... Gertrude Berg. Mervyn: "You mean the yenta in the tenement on the TV show ?" Leonard: "Mmmm ... 'The Goldbergs.' I love Gertie Berg but she'll hardly knock 'em dead in Kokomo. I've got points in this picture and two kids in college, y'know ?" Jack: "Ha ha ! Remember the Titanic ! ... Berg ? Titanic ? Ha ha !" 2. Plowing Ahead: Okay, how about Shirley Booth ? Mervyn: "You mean the yenta who's the maid on the TV show ? Do you watch anything else but TV shows ? Like movies ? Plays ? Birds ?" Jack: "Shirley you jest! Ha ha!" Leonard: "Mmmmmm ... Shirrrrrleeeeeey ... ? Mmmmmmaybe as a back-up." 3. Going For It: We could "Stunt Cast" it with Merman ! Mervyn: "You mean make it a musical ???" Leonard: "Mmmm, an extremely LOUD musical ... " Jack: "Anybody else want a sandwich ?" 4. The Hail Mary Pass: Well, there's always Bette Davis ... Mervyn: "She played it four years ago and nobody's begging for a sequel to "Catered Affair'." Leonard: "Mmmm ... we could call it The Cratered Affair' ..." Jack: (ulcer churning with Bette memories) "Burrrrrrrrp! -- Hey, did you guys know I can burp 'The Star Spangled Banner' ?" As for insteada Alec, it's too obvious: Sessue Hayakawa. Mervyn: "Hmmmm. Might be his Oscar ..." Leonard: "Didn't he start back in silent movies or something ?" Jack: "No -- doing my laundry ! Ha ha ! Burrrrp!" All in unison: "So how 'bout that sandwich, J.L. ?" ... "Yeah, great idea, J.L." ... "Mmmmmaybe lunch will help ..." And so on, and so on ... etc.etc. ... we still play via email. There is just one tiny little danger: Insteada should not be played alone or one can easily become susceptable to a condition called terminal normadesmonditis in which a classic movie lover slips slowly but permanently into the fantasy world of a "perfect Hollywood" in which he or she is very powerful and persuasive. Well ... now ... I'm sure I've moooore than adequately explained the ins and outs of Insteada ... to death ... (or, as someone remarked following my recitation of some interminable Hollywood anecdote, "Wow!! That sounds REEEALLY interesting ... to YOU.")

> The problem with Frees is that all his vocalizations were unmistakably him, so distinctive was the timbre of his voice. That's part of what made this trivia tidbit interesting to me. There's a pretty fair number of "Josephine" lines in the film and Frees -- unique pipes and all -- manages to give his readings a unique comic turn, yet they still sound more like Curtis' voice than Frees'. For contrast, there's Bette Davis' supposedly pitch-perfect "imitations" of sister Blanche in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? It seems Aldrich must have thought this was such a clever gimmick, he used it three times -- "Oh, really ? Did she like it ?," telling the liquor store to deliver, and stopping the doctor from coming to the house -- even though it's so painfully obvious Joan Crawford just looped the lines. In Some Like It Hot, even when "Josephine" is off-camera, Frees gives "her" quite a personality ... ("Da-ta-tah ... dee-tee-hee ... "): http://tinyurl.com/894uyht

Some Like It Hot has been one of my five favorite movies since I was a kid. Only in recent years did I notice that all of Tony Curtis' lines as Josephine were "looped" (replaced in post-production). Only today did I finally research the topic and discover the truth -- that the voice of "Josephine" wasn't Curtis' at all, but was actually provided by one of the most prolific voice-over artists of the 50s and 60s, Paul Frees. The details were provided by a fan of "DVD Savant" Glenn Erickson: "I had noticed on my own a long time ago that there was something fishy about 'Josephine's' voice. My ear was used to Paul Frees' vocal gymnastics from any number of cartoons, commercials, etc., and I suddenly realized that that was whom I was hearing. A year or two later, Curtis himself appeared on the summer television series 'The Copycats,' which, as you may remember, featured impressionists. He 'recreated' a scene from Hot with Rich Little portraying Jack Lemmon as 'Daphne.' And, the odd thing was, Curtis couldn't do that wonderful, Eve Arden-like voice he'd had in the film! "Eventually, VCRs appeared, and I was able to tape the movie and study it. Yes, the room tone changed whenever 'Josephine' spoke. Yes, there was a lack of synchronization from time to time. And, yes, there was even a brief moment that didn't seem to be redubbed, with 'Jo's' voice a shrill falsetto, unlike the velvety purr it was otherwise. "Years later, The New York Times ran an article on famous re-voiced performances, such as Glenn Close dubbing Andie McDowell in Greystoke, and James Keach doubling for male model Klinton Spilsbury as the voice of The Lone Ranger. They later printed a letter from a gentleman in Chicago in response. It seemed that he'd interviewed voiceover artist Paul Frees on his radio show, and Mr. Frees spoke at some length about how he'd been called in to dub 'Josephine,' when it became clear that Tony Curtis' efforts wouldn't do. "I got the Chicago man's number from information and, feeling vindicated, called him long-distance that afternoon to talk about it. I'd been right, all those years! And yet, not one word of the story has ever appeared in print, aside from that letter. What do you think? ... Bob Gutowski "Savant: I think it's yet another facet of filmmaking many people don't readily understand. A great many of the voices heard in films are not those of the original actors, and in the 50's and 60's Paul Frees practically had the voiceover market to himself, along with people like Marvin Miller (Robby the Robot). The listing in the Internet Movie Database doesn't begin to plumb the depth of Frees' presence in those years. You can see Frees acting onscreen as one of the scientists in Christian Nyby's The Thing from Another World, and as the French Fur Trader McMasters in The Big Sky, but most of us know him from his immediately recognizable narration for hundreds of movies and television shows. Frees' voice recordings from as far back as 1956 are still heard on Disneyland rides and old Disney TV shows. His is the portentious voice of doom heard in most of George Pal's films. He doesn't narrate The War of the Worlds, but is an onscreen radio reporter serving much the same function in that film. He was the king of science fiction narration: Frees is the warbly voice of the alien invaders that says " Do - oc - tor M - Mar - ar - vin" in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers. "It looks as though Frees was a one-stop shopping narrator for producers with problem characters and quickie line readings. Once your ear is cocked for his voice you never miss it again. He can be heard dubbing almost all the anonymous voices and soldier lines in Spartacus, so much so that after a few viewings you wish producer Kirk Douglas has spread the chore around to a few more actors! But the man could apparently bring forth scores of distinct different voices. For the American release of Mario Bava's Blood and Black Lace Frees seems to have done all the male voices, which gets pretty interesting when four or five men talking in a group are each a variation on the same voice. It seems entirely appropriate that he be chosen to revoice Tony Curtis in Some Like it Hot. Fortunately, Curtis' pride is saved by his perfect Cary Grant imitation as the bogus millionaire!" http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s74frees.html None of this is meant to detract from Curtis' wonderful performance -- any more than would pointing out that Yakima Canutt did the stunts for John Wayne in Stage Coach. In fact, after having seen the fiilm at least a hundred times, it provided me with a new context for tonight's viewing of Some Like It Hot: appreciating how Frees' falsetto helped bring "Josephine" to life.

> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:}{quote}as befits a hero and a martyr and a soon-to-be-canonized saint, your hero and mine: > > h1. Should flags fly at half-staff for Whitney Houston? > http://entertainment.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/15/10415956-should-flags-fly-at-half-staff-for-whitney-houston > > I say the day of her funeral should be a national holiday, the flags over the White House should be lowered as well, we should all observe a moment of silence for this great and wonderful hero, and oh, they should name a drink after her, made up of Xanax and Tequila. > > What say you all? > Since you ask, willbefree25, I'd say that your sentiments are offensively disrespectful as well as sadly misdirected. If you are in fact outraged by New Jersey's flags flying at half-staff in Whitney Houston's honor, your gripe is with Governor Christie. Whitney had nothing to do with it because -- at only 48 years old and regardless of the cause -- *she is dead*. Also, you appear to be inferring that any public expressions of grief following a performer's death should somehow be mitigated by that performer's use of drugs and/or alcohol. If that's the case, does it apply retroactively to, say, the deaths of Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, William Holden, Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, John Belushi, Wallace Reid, Janis Joplin, River Phoenix, Montgomery Clift, Dorothy Dandridge, W.C. Fields, John Barrymore, Brad Renfro, Barbara LaMarr, Freddie Prinz, Elvis Presley, Chris Farley, Sam Kinison, John Gilbert, Margaux Hemingway, Inger Stevens, Alma Rubens, Jim Morrison, Lenny Bruce, Jimi Hendrix, or any of the many other performers whose deaths were drug/alcohol related ? Finally, I'd say that whether or not one is a Whitney Houston fan and regardless of one's personal opinions about her life, death, singing styile, or whether or not she picked her nose, the fact that *she is dead* is a tragedy and deserves to be treated with a modicum of respect. All of the foregoing is offered with the disclaimer that my opinions are those of a much earlier time and are therefore so old-fashioned as to be virtually obsolete in today's world. No offense intended, willbefree25, and I hope none taken.

Whenever I get the Doris Day blues, I just remember ..."Que Sera Sera" ... Anyone interested in the history of Technicolor may enjoy this: http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/technicolor1.htm

Sepiatone, You could have responded by asking your friend if he'd ever heard of "The Aspiring Actor's Prayer": "Can I have a hit ?"

> *hlywdkjk* said: > For as intriguing, and exciting and rare as this screening sounds, there's no way I could do it. I just wouldn't have the mental stamina to get through a silent film of that length. > > > > The Abel Gance films TCM presented a few years back didn't move me either. > > > > How about you? Seeing *Napoleon* in an immense, beautifully restored theater like the Paramount with a live orchestra IS a major event which doesn't come around too often. I saw it eons ago in L.A. with Carmine Coppola conducting and when Fin flashed on the screen and the crowd began to exit, everyone was very energized ! -- LOTS of noisy discussions about the film and a number of people checking their watches to confirm it really had lasted a full five hours even though it only felt like two, maybe three. All these years later, I vividly recall the pillow fight in the first third for which Gance supposedly wound up heaving a 35mm camera around the set before he captured the precise visual chaos. And the climactic triptych montage was really magnificent -- most of our audience of around a thousand people were on their feet and cheering by its conclusion. But then, considering that when his films ran on TCM you did "take a chance on Gance," maybe he's just not your tasse de thé ... Fortunately, the brave men & women who stormed Le Bastille Cineplex Quatorze in 1789 -- and paid, like, 20 centimes for a medium-sized Diet Coke that was mostly ice ? -- they insured that moviegoing today is the ultimate expression of *Liberté ! Égalité ! No Freakin' Way !* Meaning: if you DO decide to go and don't like it, you can always split. And even if it's a pricey ticket, that may help extend your endurance until you're "swept up in the magique" ... although it could just prolong the torture and make you regret going even more ... (On the other hand, I have four fingers and a thumb.) What*ever* you decide, thanks for the great topic and especially the beautiful posters. ................

BD19, If you haven't seen them already, here are a couple of "welcome back" presents for you. 1. It's hard to believe that the same year (1935) her performance in "Of Human Bondage" lost the Best Actress Oscar to Claudette Colbert's in "It Happened One Night," Bette starred in another dramatic triumph: a short film about GE dishwashers !! (Maybe it was Jack Warner's way of telling her she was "all washed up" ?) 2. In the 30s and 40s, the highlight of Warner Bros' annual Christmas party was a blooper reel, and somebody has compiled Bette's best on YouTube. (*Warning*: offensive language): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT2rTg44SQc&feature=related

> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}Why are you attacking me personally? That's a violation of board rules, and it's rude. > > I haven't attacked you. > > I just commented with my opinion about this video of a musical being shown. It's not a movie, it's certainly not a classic movie, and no one has ever requested that it be shown on TCM. > > So why are you guys attacking me personally? As someone posted earlier, "Well try not to have a tissy fit."

> It belongs somewhere else. Yeah, like in some tribute to Lansbury's stardom. Same goes for all those musical shorts from the early sound period featuring once-famous stage acts ... Save those for TCV -- Turner Classic Vaudeville. This is TCM -- Totally Completely Mine.

Coincidentally, "drop dead" was Kaye's attitude toward anyone he thought might steal even a single watt of his spotlight. Great entertainer but not the nicest guy in the world ...

Bob is one of the nicest, most easy-going and approachable on-camera performers of all time. Considering the sheer volume of movie trivia rolling across his prompter during any given taping, plus the fact that all his intros and outros are shot in a single take no matter how long, it really should be his writers' responsbility to check his copy for accuracy. But then, "TCM" doesn't stand for Totally Correct Minutiae ...