ValeskaSuratt
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Posts posted by ValeskaSuratt
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Some Like It Hot has been one of my five favorite movies since I was a kid.
Only in recent years did I notice that all of Tony Curtis' lines as Josephine were "looped" (replaced in post-production).
Only today did I finally research the topic and discover the truth -- that the voice of "Josephine" wasn't Curtis' at all, but was actually provided by one of the most prolific voice-over artists of the 50s and 60s, Paul Frees.
The details were provided by a fan of "DVD Savant" Glenn Erickson:
"I had noticed on my own a long time ago that there was something fishy about 'Josephine's' voice. My ear was used to Paul Frees' vocal gymnastics from any number of cartoons, commercials, etc., and I suddenly realized that that was whom I was hearing. A year or two later, Curtis himself appeared on the summer television series 'The Copycats,' which, as you may remember, featured impressionists. He 'recreated' a scene from Hot with Rich Little portraying Jack Lemmon as 'Daphne.' And, the odd thing was, Curtis couldn't do that wonderful, Eve Arden-like voice he'd had in the film!
"Eventually, VCRs appeared, and I was able to tape the movie and study it. Yes, the room tone changed whenever 'Josephine' spoke. Yes, there was a lack of synchronization from time to time. And, yes, there was even a brief moment that didn't seem to be redubbed, with 'Jo's' voice a shrill falsetto, unlike the velvety purr it was otherwise.
"Years later, The New York Times ran an article on famous re-voiced performances, such as Glenn Close dubbing Andie McDowell in Greystoke, and James Keach doubling for male model Klinton Spilsbury as the voice of The Lone Ranger. They later printed a letter from a gentleman in Chicago in response. It seemed that he'd interviewed voiceover artist Paul Frees on his radio show, and Mr. Frees spoke at some length about how he'd been called in to dub 'Josephine,' when it became clear that Tony Curtis' efforts wouldn't do.
"I got the Chicago man's number from information and, feeling vindicated, called him long-distance that afternoon to talk about it. I'd been right, all those years! And yet, not one word of the story has ever appeared in print, aside from that letter. What do you think? ... Bob Gutowski
"Savant: I think it's yet another facet of filmmaking many people don't readily understand. A great many of the voices heard in films are not those of the original actors, and in the 50's and 60's Paul Frees practically had the voiceover market to himself, along with people like Marvin Miller (Robby the Robot). The listing in the Internet Movie Database doesn't begin to plumb the depth of Frees' presence in those years. You can see Frees acting onscreen as one of the scientists in Christian Nyby's The Thing from Another World, and as the French Fur Trader McMasters in The Big Sky, but most of us know him from his immediately recognizable narration for hundreds of movies and television shows. Frees' voice recordings from as far back as 1956 are still heard on Disneyland rides and old Disney TV shows. His is the portentious voice of doom heard in most of George Pal's films. He doesn't narrate The War of the Worlds, but is an onscreen radio reporter serving much the same function in that film. He was the king of science fiction narration: Frees is the warbly voice of the alien invaders that says " Do - oc - tor M - Mar - ar - vin" in Earth vs. the Flying Saucers.
"It looks as though Frees was a one-stop shopping narrator for producers with problem characters and quickie line readings. Once your ear is cocked for his voice you never miss it again. He can be heard dubbing almost all the anonymous voices and soldier lines in Spartacus, so much so that after a few viewings you wish producer Kirk Douglas has spread the chore around to a few more actors! But the man could apparently bring forth scores of distinct different voices. For the American release of Mario Bava's Blood and Black Lace Frees seems to have done all the male voices, which gets pretty interesting when four or five men talking in a group are each a variation on the same voice. It seems entirely appropriate that he be chosen to revoice Tony Curtis in Some Like it Hot. Fortunately, Curtis' pride is saved by his perfect Cary Grant imitation as the bogus millionaire!"
http://www.dvdtalk.com/dvdsavant/s74frees.html
None of this is meant to detract from Curtis' wonderful performance -- any more than would pointing out that Yakima Canutt did the stunts for John Wayne in Stage Coach.
In fact, after having seen the fiilm at least a hundred times, it provided me with a new context for tonight's viewing of Some Like It Hot: appreciating how Frees' falsetto helped bring "Josephine" to life.
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> {quote:title=willbefree25 wrote:}{quote}as befits a hero and a martyr and a soon-to-be-canonized saint, your hero and mine:
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> h1. Should flags fly at half-staff for Whitney Houston?
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> I say the day of her funeral should be a national holiday, the flags over the White House should be lowered as well, we should all observe a moment of silence for this great and wonderful hero, and oh, they should name a drink after her, made up of Xanax and Tequila.
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> What say you all?
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Since you ask, willbefree25, I'd say that your sentiments are offensively disrespectful as well as sadly misdirected.
If you are in fact outraged by New Jersey's flags flying at half-staff in Whitney Houston's honor, your gripe is with Governor Christie.
Whitney had nothing to do with it because -- at only 48 years old and regardless of the cause -- *she is dead*.
Also, you appear to be inferring that any public expressions of grief following a performer's death should somehow be mitigated by that performer's use of drugs and/or alcohol.
If that's the case, does it apply retroactively to, say, the deaths of Marilyn Monroe, Judy Garland, William Holden, Michael Jackson, Heath Ledger, John Belushi, Wallace Reid, Janis Joplin, River Phoenix, Montgomery Clift, Dorothy Dandridge, W.C. Fields, John Barrymore, Brad Renfro, Barbara LaMarr, Freddie Prinz, Elvis Presley, Chris Farley, Sam Kinison, John Gilbert, Margaux Hemingway, Inger Stevens, Alma Rubens, Jim Morrison, Lenny Bruce, Jimi Hendrix, or any of the many other performers whose deaths were drug/alcohol related ?
Finally, I'd say that whether or not one is a Whitney Houston fan and regardless of one's personal opinions about her life, death, singing styile, or whether or not she picked her nose, the fact that *she is dead* is a tragedy and deserves to be treated with a modicum of respect.
All of the foregoing is offered with the disclaimer that my opinions are those of a much earlier time and are therefore so old-fashioned as to be virtually obsolete in today's world.
No offense intended, willbefree25, and I hope none taken.
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Whenever I get the Doris Day blues, I just remember ..."Que Sera Sera" ...
Anyone interested in the history of Technicolor may enjoy this:
http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/technicolor1.htm
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Sepiatone,
You could have responded by asking your friend if he'd ever heard of "The Aspiring Actor's Prayer":
"Can I have a hit ?"
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> *hlywdkjk* said:
> For as intriguing, and exciting and rare as this screening sounds, there's no way I could do it. I just wouldn't have the mental stamina to get through a silent film of that length.
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> The Abel Gance films TCM presented a few years back didn't move me either.
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> How about you?
Seeing *Napoleon* in an immense, beautifully restored theater like the Paramount with a live orchestra IS a major event which doesn't come around too often.
I saw it eons ago in L.A. with Carmine Coppola conducting and when Fin flashed on the screen and the crowd began to exit, everyone was very energized ! -- LOTS of noisy discussions about the film and a number of people checking their watches to confirm it really had lasted a full five hours even though it only felt like two, maybe three.
All these years later, I vividly recall the pillow fight in the first third for which Gance supposedly wound up heaving a 35mm camera around the set before he captured the precise visual chaos.
And the climactic triptych montage was really magnificent -- most of our audience of around a thousand people were on their feet and cheering by its conclusion.
But then, considering that when his films ran on TCM you did "take a chance on Gance," maybe he's just not your tasse de thé ...
Fortunately, the brave men & women who stormed Le Bastille Cineplex Quatorze in 1789 -- and paid, like, 20 centimes for a medium-sized Diet Coke that was mostly ice ? -- they insured that moviegoing today is the ultimate expression of *Liberté ! Égalité ! No Freakin' Way !*
Meaning: if you DO decide to go and don't like it, you can always split. And even if it's a pricey ticket, that may help extend your endurance until you're "swept up in the magique" ... although it could just prolong the torture and make you regret going even more ... (On the other hand, I have four fingers and a thumb.)
What*ever* you decide, thanks for the great topic and especially the beautiful posters.
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BD19,
If you haven't seen them already, here are a couple of "welcome back" presents for you.
1. It's hard to believe that the same year (1935) her performance in "Of Human Bondage" lost the Best Actress Oscar to Claudette Colbert's in "It Happened One Night," Bette starred in another dramatic triumph: a short film about GE dishwashers !! (Maybe it was Jack Warner's way of telling her she was "all washed up" ?)
2. In the 30s and 40s, the highlight of Warner Bros' annual Christmas party was a blooper reel, and somebody has compiled Bette's best on YouTube. (*Warning*: offensive language):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT2rTg44SQc&feature=related
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Adela must have really been something !
Should time, article length and editor's whims permit it, it would be interesting (to me, anyway) if you could explore how Adela's close relationship with her father, famed criminal defense lawyer Earl Rogers, might have influenced her decision to become a hard-boiled reporter -- one of the very few women to do so in the early 1920s.
If it helps, here's a link to a 1989 L.A. Times article about Earl Rogers:
http://articles.latimes.com/1989-01-08/magazine/tm-5_1_earl-rogers
From that article:
"Finally, Rogers sank into drunken irresponsibility. His son signed a complaint to have him committed, and Adela appeared against him. When her direct testimony was ended, Rogers approached the witness box. He asked softly, "You don't think I'm crazy, do you, honey?"
"Adela burst into tears and the complaint was dismissed.
"After that, Rogers was in and out of hospitals until he was found dead in his room in a humble lodging house on the site of the present Hall of Justice."
Other Adela anecdotes:
When asked about rumors she'd had a baby by Clark Gable, she replied, "Well, who wouldn't have wanted to have Clark Gable's baby?"
In 1976, at the age of 82, she returned to reporting for the Examiner to cover the bank robbery and conspiracy trial of Patty Hearst -- ironically, the granddaughter of her former employer.
While you're surely a far better researcher than I, there are many interesting details of Adela's life here:
http://looking-for-mabel.webs.com/adelarogersstjohn.htm
Good luck with your article and I hope you'll come back with a link when it's published.
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> {quote:title=FredCDobbs wrote:}{quote}Why are you attacking me personally? That's a violation of board rules, and it's rude.
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> I haven't attacked you.
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> I just commented with my opinion about this video of a musical being shown. It's not a movie, it's certainly not a classic movie, and no one has ever requested that it be shown on TCM.
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> So why are you guys attacking me personally?
As someone posted earlier, "Well try not to have a tissy fit." -
> It belongs somewhere else.
Yeah, like in some tribute to Lansbury's stardom.
Same goes for all those musical shorts from the early sound period featuring once-famous stage acts ...
Save those for TCV -- Turner Classic Vaudeville.
This is TCM -- Totally Completely Mine.
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Coincidentally, "drop dead" was Kaye's attitude toward anyone he thought might steal even a single watt of his spotlight.
Great entertainer but not the nicest guy in the world ...
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Bob is one of the nicest, most easy-going and approachable on-camera performers of all time.
Considering the sheer volume of movie trivia rolling across his prompter during any given taping, plus the fact that all his intros and outros are shot in a single take no matter how long, it really should be his writers' responsbility to check his copy for accuracy.
But then, "TCM" doesn't stand for Totally Correct Minutiae ...
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VP19,
Fellow reader of Ellenberger's wonderful blog here. Thanks for the link.
If there's a cure for movie trivia addiction, I don't want it.
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He's not that well known as an actor, but ... coming out of a movie in Los Angeles, I realized I was less than two paces behind one of my heroes, Stan Freberg !
Ever since babbling like an idiot at Bette Midler several years before, my policy had been (and still is) that the best fan is a quiet and respectful fan ... plus I'd heard that Mr. Freberg did not suffer fools patiently.
Still, I couldn't resist and fortunately -- and for the only time in my life -- I said exactly the right thing:
"Excuse me, Mr. Freberg, but would you mind very much if I told you what an absolute genius I think you are ?"
"Not at all," he replied with a half-smile but without missing a step, "not at all."
(For anyone unfamiliar with Freberg's work, the soup commercial he created starring Ann Miller -- reportedly the most expensive TV commercial produced up to that time -- seems appropos for TCM:
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> {quote:title=slaytonf wrote:}{quote}I think they were all taken in by Marilyn. Of course, she may have meant it to be taken as a joke, and expected laughter, but instead got condescension.
If the "Whitman" story actually happened, I'd love to have been there to see the reactions -- did anybody realize MM was making a self-deprecating joke ? Did she even let on that was what she was doing ?
The fact is that (much to her later regret) MM helped launch her career by making "sexy dumb blonde" remarks in public, hoping they'd get picked up by the columnists she was courting (including Winchell - ugh!).
F'rinstance: when asked what she wore to bed? "Chanel No. 5." What did she have on while posing for the infamous calendar? "The radio." Why didn't she wear colored nail polish ? "I like to feel naked all over." etc.
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On August 21, 2005, Arlene Dahl told this story on "Larry King Live" and claimed she was sitting at a piano with Cole Porter singing "You're the Top" when Marilyn made her entrance and it was only to an anonymous "group of gentlemen" Marilyn made the supposed "I love his chocolates" comment.
On December 12, 2002, also on "Larry King Live," Dahl described dancing with John F. Kennedy when Marilyn appeared and that she and JFK had "roared with laughter" when they overheard Marilyn making the remark.
On February 10, 1974, Dahl was quoted in the Ocala Star-Register: "Marilyn Monroe came over to a group – Cary Grant, Artur Rubinstein, Joan Crawford and I were in it ..."
Obviously, Arlene never spoils a story by telling it.
Still, it's unfortunate that the TCM version comes across as slamming Marilyn for being stupid.
(Photograph taken by John Florea in 1952)
Shut not your doors to me proud libraries,
For that which was lacking on all your well-fill'd shelves, yet
needed most, I bring,
Forth from the war emerging, a book I have made,
The words of my book nothing, the drift of it every thing,
A book separate, not link'd with the rest nor felt by the intellect,
But you ye untold latencies will thrill to every page.
*Shut Not Your Doors* - Walt Whitman (Leaves of Grass, 1881)
One final tidbit of trivia: in the TCM segment, Dahl is saying that the party was at "Lady Mendl's" (aka Elsie de Wolf) and not "Mickey Mantle's."
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In "Faithless" (1932) Tallulah Bankhead only hustles as a last resort to save her sick husband (Robert Montgomery) ... just her bad luck to try to pick up his younger brother ...
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When it came to the Whoopi-Demi kiss, many in the theater audience I saw "Ghost" with roared like they were riding a roller coaster ... despite the fact that there's no lesbianism in the scene at all -- it had been clearly established that Goldberg was an unwilling tool controlled by Swayze's spirit.
Givenbak,
I'd be curious how your project would address "questionably queer" characters like Kip Lurie (played by David Wayne) in "Adam's Rib," described by Vito Russo as "a yardstick sissy par excellence."
Despite Kip's overtly heterosexual drooling over Hepburn's Amanda (like a basset hound over a bowl of Alpo), Adam (Spencer Tracy) impugns him for lacking masculinity (claiming that Kip wouldn't have far to go to be a woman), presumably on account of Kip's catty comments and grandiose gesturing. A sissy, yes ... but gay ?
TCM's article on "Adam's Rib" contributes two other clues: that the Production Code Administration "cautioned against making Amanda's songwriter friend, Kip, come across as gay," and that Kip "was modeled on Cole Porter, who, though happily married, was also gay." (Does that mean "married and also gay" or "like Kip, also gay" ?)
Seems like your approach to LGBTs in film -- "My particular focus is finding the origins of cultural symbols for the homosexual -how it is that we come to recognize them in images, words and music..." -- will help differentiate between "sissies" and gay men.
I'd also be curious to hear Givenbak's thoughts on Julian Eltinge's films and career vis a vis today's transgendered community. (Eltinge's career as the "Tootsie" of the 1910s would make an interesting biopic starring Philip Seymour Hoffman.)
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Thanks drednm for the great info !
(Marion as Liza Dolittle = "Pyg O' My Malion" ?)
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> {quote:title=JonnyGeetar wrote:}{quote}
> I'd hate to think he was actually a dynamo, ace-actor who was told by the director of Dorian Gray to be as lifeless and flat as possible- you know, like a portrait on a canvas- and as such he went down on the books as "nice face, can't act."
You nailed it.
From Bosley Crowther's review of "Dorian," March 2, 1945:
"... Hurd Hatfield, *yielding plainly to direction,* is incredibly stiff as Dorian Gray, and walks through the film with a vapid and masklike expression on his face. (Apparently somebody figured that was the only way to show it doesn't change.) "
The director was Albert Lewin. (Never hoid of 'im !)
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Seems like Davies almost had *too much* going for her -- talent, brains, beauty *and* Hearst's empire ?
Writer Anita Loos described screening dailies with W.R. and when footage of 2 actors without Davies appeared, he stopped the screening and demanded to know "Why wasn't Marion in that scene?"
"They're talking about a plot point Marion's character doesn't know about," Loos explained.
"Never mind that," W.R. decreed, and the scene was supposedly replaced with one in which Marion picked daisies.
By "Cain and Mabel" in 1936, Hearst couldn't afford to be so picky: during one of the over-sized musical numbers (I think it's the one with Marion in medieval headgear) a studio worker can be clearly seen crossing the set in the background -- a re-shoot having been deemed too expensive.
Years ago, I saw newsreel outtakes of Marion escorting George Bernard Show when he visited MGM in March of 1933 and I heard her famous stammer ! It was very apparent -- like, "I th-th-th-th-think we can go th-th-th-th-this way ...."
From everything I've read, Davies was generous to a fault and a total sweetheart ... I imagine "Citizen Kane" must have hurt her very deeply, especially with frequent San Simeon guest Herman Mankiewicz credited as co-writer.
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Those newspaper excerpts are priceless !
Sounds like you may already be familiar with a book called "Gay New York: Gender, Urban Culture, and the Making of the Gay Male World, 1890 - 1940" by George Chauncey ?
If not, it may help you to decode even more of the arcane references to gay men in movies and newspapers which have long since fallen into disuse but which early 20th century gay men devised to identify themselves to prospective partners as unobtrusively as possible -- like wearing a red tie, discussing opera, standing in certain places in certain bars, using words like "lavender" ...
Hope you'll keep us posted.
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kriegerg69,
Back in those days, it was like the Oscars had a bizarre unwritten rule that all Best Song nominees HAD to be performed by someone OTHER than whoever had made it famous in the movie.
In fact, they seemed to go out of their way to make the songs sound completely different from the originals -- like instead of Tom Jones singing "What's New Pussycat?" they got 22-year-old Liza Minnelli to screech it...
I only remember two occasions when it worked out pretty well -- Angela (instead of Julie) doing "Thoroughly Modern Millie" in '67 and Aretha Franklin (rather than Streisand) belting a soulful version of "Funny Girl" in '69.
Still, the Academy kept it up until I think well into the 70s ... -
From the '68 Oscars, Lansbury's show-stopping performance of another title song:
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Thank you, Andy .
Some Like It Looped
in General Discussions
Posted
> The problem with Frees is that all his vocalizations were unmistakably him, so distinctive was the timbre of his voice.
That's part of what made this trivia tidbit interesting to me.
There's a pretty fair number of "Josephine" lines in the film and Frees -- unique pipes and all -- manages to give his readings a unique comic turn, yet they still sound more like Curtis' voice than Frees'.
For contrast, there's Bette Davis' supposedly pitch-perfect "imitations" of sister Blanche in Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?
It seems Aldrich must have thought this was such a clever gimmick, he used it three times -- "Oh, really ? Did she like it ?," telling the liquor store to deliver, and stopping the doctor from coming to the house -- even though it's so painfully obvious Joan Crawford just looped the lines.
In Some Like It Hot, even when "Josephine" is off-camera, Frees gives "her" quite a personality ... ("Da-ta-tah ... dee-tee-hee ... "):
http://tinyurl.com/894uyht