Lori3
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Posts posted by Lori3
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Part of this response was posted on your other thread Tom (Power IS Payne) but I guess it really belongs here.
Funny as it may sound I use to have the biggest crush on Kurt Russell and Tommy Kirk!
What? I know Tommy Kirk. Although when I was adult and re-watched "Old Yeller" with my girls, I thought he showed a lot of potential of perhaps becoming a fine actor if given the right part and right director.
Then when I was 11 the Beatles hit the USA, and well it was all about Paul McCartney then.
I saw the Beatles when I was 12, and Paul actually "waved" at me. Well maybe not right at me. It was more like me and about 200 over screaming pre-teens in this one section!
Lori
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Thanks for the information MaxyonMayerling. All I can say is "Thank God" that fashion changes.
I volunteer at my local zoo, and during my training someone brought out an old 1930's women's coat that was made from "monkey fur!" It made me sick to my stomach.
Lori
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Oh, I just thought of another two actors I used to mix-up with each other Tab Hunter and Troy Donahue. Again, this mistaken identity occured when I was just a "wee" little girl.
Also, in my pre-teen years I always got Frankie Avalon and Fabian mixed up.
And, funny as it may sound I use to have the biggest crush on Kurt Russell and Tommy Kirk!
What? I know Tommy Kirk. Although when I was adult and re-watched "Old Yeller" with my girls, I thought he showed a lot of potential of perhaps becoming a fine actor if given the right part and right director.
Thanks
Lori
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Tom, I know it would be very easy to sit here now and say, "Oh no way, I wouldn't have name, names" but when faced with losing your career and your ability to support your family, well who knows what any of us, including me would do.
Robert Taylor and Adolphe Menjou were a couple more friendly witnesses. If you go on to YouTube you can actually hear when Taylor is asked to name someone he says, "Howard Da Silva." Menjou says something like he would move to Texas, because if a Communist were to go to Texas, the Texans would "shoot them on sight." You can hear applause and laughter after that statement.
I know that many actors, directors and screenwriters were blacklisted during that terrible time, and it wasn't just Garfield who had his film career destroyed. But John Garfield was the most prominent actor at the time to be blacklisted. I also believe Julie Garfield and others when they say, that HUAC wanted a "big" name (Jewish) actor to catch and Hollywood gave them Garfield.
Funny how the "boyhood code" of "You do not rat on your friends" that he learned during his time with the "gangs" of New York stayed with him to the end. This is one more thing I admire about the man. He had a lot of "moxie" for a little guy.
After all my readings and studying of Garfield (and I am not finished yet) the more I think he was the "sacrificial lamb" that the entertainment industry gave up to appease HUAC. So disgusting and shameful that this happened to a loyal American, a good man, and one of our greatest actors.And that he is so forgotten by today's audience is just like adding "salt" a wound. (At least to me.)
Lori
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Tom, I have heard people before comment of the similarities in Kelly and Garfield voice and I guess they do have the same tone, but I never really noticed it.
As funny as it may seem Garfield and Kelly were very good friends while both were in Hollywood. They would hang out a lot together, drink together and loved to play little jokes on people.
After The Pride of the Marines came out, Garfield was ordered to go to a Naval hospital and do a scene from the film. He didn't want to do it because he felt bad because he would be "acting" and there sat real men and boys who were suffering from real wounds and disabilities after their time at the "front" during WWII.
Garfield begged WB not to make him go,even saying send Dane Clark. WB said no, put on the uniform and go. He did and did a good job, but afterward he and Kelly got drunk in a hotel room and damn near destroyed the room.
I guess that during the HUAC mess people were so afraid of having their careers destroyed that they distanced themselves from anyone who was blacklisted. So even Garfield's old and close friends from Hollywood would not come to his aid. It is very sad, to think that people could turn the backs on a friend who so desperately needed their help or at least their support. (I am not judging anyone)
Only a handful of his old Hollywood friends attended Garfield's his funeral. Maybe some of them just couldn't get the time off to attend or they might have still been fearful of being associated with an actor who was blacklisted.
I read that Kelly's character in "It's Always Fair Weather" is Kelly's tribute to Garfield.
The not so funny thing was that Kelly's wife, actress Betsy Blair would find herself to be blacklisted a few years later.
Tom, here is the picture you were referring to. I am not sure what is the thing with Kelly's tie?
Kelly words on Garfield, "He was a lovely guy, and a fine actor."
Lori
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I have to say congratulations Tom on such a interesting and popular thread. I think I just saw already 83 responses! I am sure the responses will continue too, because the surface of this subject has just been scratched.
Good job.
Lori
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Well Drago2 thanks for the compliment. Don't you think that Dane Clark "over does it" in Hollywood Canteen? My God his is so "hyper" too, that I wish he have a drink or two to calm down. Oh, and are you NUTS? Johnny Carson reminded you of Garfield? (I am just kidding) I don't see it all, but whatever, we all see people and things through are owe eyes.
Oh and Tom. Let me think, am I confusing Garfield with Hodiak? Well if I am, I am a hopeless case, because the three books I have, all have John Garfield on them, and same with the 3 DVD's my husband has allowed me to buy, all starring that Garfield guy!
You are a funny one.
Thanks
Lori
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TomJH. You are absolutely right about Dane Clark. He and Garfield did look somewhat a like, but to me Garfield was much "better looking and he had that "fine" quality a.k.a. sex appeal, that Clark, at least to me never had. I never got the two mixed up because by the time I "discovered" Garfield I knew who Dane Clark was, prior to my discovery I had never heard of Clark.
Yes, poor Dane was know as the "poor man's Garfield, and I read about the Humoresque incident, and it was very nice of Clark not to mention it to Garfield.
To me Clark a lot of the times seemed to "try to hard" in some of the films I have seen him in.
A good example is "The Stolen Life" with Bette Davis, Glen Ford, and Dane Clark. Evidently Davis wanted Garfield for the part of the rebellious young artist, but WB felt the part was too small for Garfield so the part went to Clark. His character is sort of a rebel artist, kind of like Garfield's Mickey Borden in Four Daughters. However, to me at least Clark over acts his part and tries to hard to be this sexy rebel trying to seduce Davis. The other thing is that Clark did not have or maybe could not display the sensitivity and vulnerability that Garfield always displayed in his portrayal of the rebel or anti-hero roles. With Garfield, always just under that hard surface of the character, there was that boy-man lost, wanting to be "get in" but never knowing how to get in. Always the eternal outsider, looking in. Whether Garfield choose that his characters would have these sensitive and vulnerable traits or if the traits just came out of naturally we will never know.
I think Clark might of done better if he would of just been "himself" more in his screen roles than trying to be someone else. He was a good friend to Garfield, and I think he did some of his best work in The Pride of the Marines" and with that performance you could see he did have talent.
Thanks,
Lori
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I kind of was afraid to write a post here for fear I might put some people in the "attack mode." So please remember be nice and respectful with all your posts, especially to me.
Some might find this shocking but years ago I used to get John Garfield and John Hodiak confused!
This was years ago, and I was busy raising my two daughters, and had not yet seen The Postman Always Rings Twice, and discovered the "beautiful acting art" that was John Garfield.
Now please don't get upset with me with that last statement. That is just my opinion period. You might have a different opinion and that is fine. Just because I am right and you are wrong shouldn't matter!
(I am just KIDDING, OK?)
Oh, and TomJH you seem like a big fan and admirer of Errol Flynn. He was great no doubt about that.
If you type in your internet search box "The Ravin Maven of Classic Films" the link will come up, click on the link and the a list of about 15 classic actors will come up. Errol Flynn has a link, and I checked his "guestbook" real quickly and May 11th was the last post, so check it out.
There is a link for John Garfield, and that is where we the members of "Garfield's Gang" have discussions regarding our plans-------to take over the world.
Thanks
Lori
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TomJH, I agree with you a Errol Flynn bio pic would make a great film if it is done properly with the right actor. So sad he was so self-destructive and had an issue with alcohol. He really was an iconic actor and one of a kind for sure.
Lori
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"It all seems too simple. Live your life, do your work. Simple as all that. You find out it's not that easy. Nothing comes free. One way or another you pay for what you are."
Paul Boray (John Garfield) Humerosque, 1946.
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"It all seems too simple. Live your life, do your work. Simple as all that. You find out it's not that easy. Nothing comes free. One way or another you pay for what you are."
Paul Boray (John Garfield) Humerosque, 1946.
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hi ginnyfan. You are right a person with a bloodstream infection would not like last long without antibiotics at the very least. So, if I had to make a guess I would say Ginny died of Congestive Heart Failure which was a complication of her rheumatic heart.
I in no way want to make you feel bad, but congestive heart failure is not an easy way to go. However maybe she had some treatment so ease her symptoms.
You got me interested in her and I always liked her in the movies I have seen her in.
Thank you too for your support of my favorite actor John Garfield. I am lucky in that I am "facebook" friends with his daughter Julie Garfield. She very kind and understanding of the fans of her father and has sent me communications from time to time regarding different issues relating to her father. I in no means mean to imply we are friends but with me and other "fans" she always answers us or shares old pictures of her father will us or relates funny little stories she remembers with us.
Have you checked to see if there is a facebook page for Ginny, or maybe one of her sons has one?
Just a thought.
Thanks
Lori
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Hey ginnyfan. Now you got me interested in Ginny's passing. Do you know what the official cause of death was? Was an autopsy done? Also, if you can try to find out what symptoms she was displaying the weeks or days before her death would be helpful in putting the pieces together. If she had a high fever I would think she died from a bloodstream infection. If she was very short of breath, weak, and with swelling in her feet and ankles I would like maybe she died from congestive heart failure. I don't think it could have been a heart attack because when people die from that they usually have extreme chest pain, feel like an "elephant" is sitting on their chest, the heart stops due electrical problem and then they are gone. People don't actively die from a heart attack.
It is a real shame she died so young. I know during my quick research on her I read she had two sons. I am sure they were heart broken they lost their mother at such a young age.
Your teenage son sounds funny.
Thanks
Lori
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Hey joefilmone, John Garfield's life would make a great bio pic. Especially if it told truthfully showing all of the triumphs and tragedies of his life. I my opinion the film would need to show his childhood and growing up in the slums of NY, his time with the Group theater, Hollywood years, and the tragic ending with HUAC and the blacklisting. And, yes they would need to show the affairs with co-stars since the man obviously loved women. Regarding who would be a good actor to portray Garfield "The MovieProfessor" posted the following about a month ago.
{font:Arial}
"Wahlberg is one of several actors who have shown interest playing Garfield on film. Also, Leonardo DiCaprio, Josh Brolin, James Franco, Colin Farrell, Josh Hartnett and Casey Affleck, shown interest in a possible film about the legendary John (Julius) Garfield. There has been talk and even some planning for at least the past thirty years on a possible film biography. This has meant that about three generations of actors that have come and went, might have had a chance at portraying one of the shining, towering, symbolic figures of Method Acting. There still is no real positive plans regarding the Garfield bio film. I guess we just have to leave it to the “fates.” {font}
My vote would be for Leonardo DiCaprio. I think if the dyed his hair, put brown contacts in him, he would do a great job. Also, he is such a big name I think that alone would bring the people to the box office.
Thanks
Lori
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That is such a beautiful and moving letter. People during the Civil War had such an eloquent way of expressing themselves.
Wow, thank you for reminding us of the beautiful letter that was read in Saving Private Ryan.
Lori
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Why thank you Sepiatone, you are so sweet. When I first saw this thread, I thought I better just leave it alone, because people are going to start saying, 'OMG, if she mentions John Garfield one more time I am going to throw-up!" Oops, sorry I did it again.
I would also like to suggest, Gene Kelly, Vivian Leigh, Lana Turner and Rita Hayworth.
And just for the record, Judy Davis portrayed Judy Garland in a TV bio pic some years ago. She did a pretty good job.
Thanks
Lori
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JakeHolman. All I can say to the line you quoted is, "Amen to that!"
Now days we have to wipe out a system that trains children to become suicide bombers!
Love the poster too.
Thanks
Lori
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I have seen "Dinner at Eight" many times and I just love it.
Anyways, I have always thought that Marie Dressler's part was based somewhat on Ethel Barrymore's life, especially her stage career when she was a young woman.You know the part in the film where Marie and Lionel are talking about how popular Carlotta was in her early stage career. They say things like, "oh yes they named battleships after me, and perfumes," when "you worn a new hat, it became the rage," etc.
I saw a special Biography years ago about the Barrymores and it started with the parents of Lionel, Ethel, and John and it ended with Drew. It was narrated by Gary Sinise, and when he talked about Ethel she was evidently very popular, and had racehorses, ships, and a theater named after her. Just like the character of Carlotta Vance in "Dinner at Eight."
I just thought it was funny that neither Robert or Drew mentioned this during their discussion of the film. Anyone else think of that this was strange or that indeed Carlotta was based on Ethel?
Lastly, please someone tell me what kind of dead animals were those fur things made of that women either carried around or draped over them in the films of the 30's and 40's. My husband says they were made from dead foxes, but I say no, because the heads are too small.
Did any of you notice the one Marie had in "Dinner at Eight?" OMG there was about 6 of these poor dead animals sewed together with heads and paws all over the place! It was so "foul."
Thanks
Lori
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Thanks for some wonderful information. I would like to add John Garfield's name to the list.
Immediately at the onset of WWII Garfield tried to join the armed forces but was refused because of his bad heart. Frustrated he then decided enlist the help his friend Bette Davis to help form a place where servicemen on leave could come eat, and mingle with the top entertainment stars of the day, all free of charge.
John Garfield, Bette Davis and Jules Stein were the driving force behind the "Hollywood Canteen."
Many Hollywood stars gave their time and energy to make the Hollywood Canteen a sucess. They did everything from washing dishes, serving food, to dancing with the troops.
Garfield also traveled overseas to entertain the troops during WWII many times behind enemy lines.
Garfield wanted to continue the tradition of entertaining the troops during the Korean War. However it was at this time that HUAC considered him not to be a loyal American, and he couldn't get clearance from the US goverment to go.
[img=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--cH2PgETRBg/Ttm8Hbmm1XI/AAAAAAABH6k/R38Q5-ndNNU/s320/tumblr_lseu0uiheS1qzl2o8o1_1280.jpg]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--cH2PgETRBg/Ttm8Hbmm1XI/AAAAAAABH6k/R38Q5-ndNNU/s320/tumblr_lseu0uiheS1qzl2o8o1_1280.jpg
Bette Davis and John Garfield during the planning phase of the Hollywood Canteen.1942
Thanks
Lori
Edited by: Lori3 on May 26, 2012 6:12 PM
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A few lines from the comic writers of MST3K.
From the film "The Final Sacrifice"
"Well, who's up for a moose lip omelet?"
While a horse is being taken from a barn "Had a hard time saddling up the Mrs.today."
"Made you some trail mix out rat droppings and hair."
I am sorry but I think the comic writing of the MSTK3 guys was just hysterical.
Edited by: Lori3 on May 26, 2012 6:20 PM
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My first thought and choice would go to Paul Muni in Scarface, 1932. I know he plays Tony Camonte, but I remember reading years ago that this character was based on Capone. I also read that when Al Capone saw this movie he commented on the way Paul Muni ate spaghetti, stating "I would never eat spaghetti that way."
However since Mr.Muni is not listed here, I would vote for Robert DeNiro's portrayal of the legendary criminal.
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Hi ginnyfan. Number one it sounds like Ginny was actively dying. If she was sick for that prolonged of a time. And with her family at her bedside, holding hands and singing well her death sounds like it was not a suprise to anyone.
I still am not sure what symptoms she was displaying and you mentioned something about her life was controlled due to the rheumatic fever. I am assuming you mean she basically "took it easy" did not overly do any type of physical activity. This is very important for patients with rheumatic hearts!
Both Garfield's and Darin's doctors continually told them to "slow it down" but neither man did. (Men!) Just kidding.
I do believe that Ginny's life could have been prolonged had she only seen a doctor and agreed to treatment. Treatment probably would have been antibiotics, steroids, lots of rest, and maybe some oxygen therapy. She probably needed replacement of at least one of the cardiac valves, and maybe bypass surgery. I just found out the first successful open heart surgery occured here in the US in 1952. So in 1967 or 1968 I would imagine that improvement in surgical techniques had occured. So, yes her life probably could have been prolonged, and especially if she had open heart surgery and it was successful she might have lived to see the birth of her grand-children.
Again I hope this helps, and please let me know if you have any further questions. I like answering medical questions.
Thanks
Lori
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Per your request ginnyfan. I can tell you now that what caused Virginia Weidler's early death at the age of 41 was the same thing that ultimately caused the death of John Garfield and Bobby Darin. What people say a lot of the time is that so, and so caught rheumatic fever, it damaged their hearts and they died at an earlier age. This however is not really the truth. The truth is that rheumatic fever occurs after the person has had an infection with bacteria called Streptococcus Grp A. (I worked for 15 years in Infection Control,) The majority of the time this infection occurs in the form of a really bad sore throat, e.g. strep throat.
The problem is that all three of these stars were born prior to the discovery of antibiotics so no treatment could be given to them, if indeed they or their doctors knew they were infected with Strep Grp. A.
Any ways what happens is that if the person is not treated properly during that infection, the bacteria causes an inflammatory response in many major organs and joints of the infected person. Unfortunately one of the most common organs that get infected is the heart. What happens is that the bacteria causes the sack around the heart to swell and the bacteria attaches what is called “vegetations’” to the valves in the heart. These vegetations’ have the ability to break off and block a coronary artery and if the blockage is big enough the person will suffer a heart attack or M.I. The vegetation can also break loose and enter into the person’s bloodstream, which causes bloodstream infections or septicemia. This if not treated, can be deadly of course.
Now in John Garfield’s case I know from all my reading that he most likely caught his Strep Grp A infection from riding the rails on his way home from traveling across country in 1929. He and a friend spent months on the road jumping freight trains, or thumbing a ride to different states working odd jobs to make ends meet. It sounds like they really lived the life of hobos. When Garfield returned to New York at the end of 1929 he was deathly ill with a temperature of 107! He was rushed to hospital and stayed there for three weeks. He was told when he left that his heart was permanently damaged by the infection. (His friend wasn't’t so lucky, he caught tuberculosis and died two months later.)
In Bobby Darin’s case I am not real sure. I know he was infected in the Strep bacteria as a child and for a good part of his childhood he was quite ill and weak. So I am pretty sure he knew he was living on borrowed time.
In Virginia Weidler's case it sounds like she was never aware that she was infected with Strep as a child. I read where in later years as an adult she was told that she must have been infected as a child. I guess this is possible, maybe she or her parents thought she just had a really bad sore throat and they treated her appropriately by keeping her fevers down so her temperature never reached as high as Garfield’s. It sounds like too that Ms. Weidler’s parents were not poor, so she most likely had good care, food and rest to get her through this infection due to a strong well fed immune system. Garfield on the other hand was a “slum kid” with a father that was dirt poor and who didn't’t give a rat’s a—about him.(His mother died when he was 7.) He for years had no bed to sleep on but instead had to sleep on a pile of old coats in the hallway, which rats frequently visited him at night. So Garfield’s immune system was probably pretty low when old Mr. Strep came to visit
The other thing I am not sure regarding Virginia is if prior to her death she experienced any signs of heart disease e.g. chest pains, tightness of the chest, or shortness of breath.
I know that both Garfield and Darin both experienced these symptoms from time to time, and Garfield had his first minor heart attack at the age of 36.
Virginia dies at home is all I know. I am not sure if she was actively dying or did she too die in her sleep? I don’t know that much about the Christian Science religion except that they do not believe in doctors or medicine. So, if that is the case I can only guess that her life might have been saved had she seen a doctor and / or sought out medical treatment. It is really hard to tell because like I said I don’t know if she was actively dying or did she suddenly die in her sleep. The other thing is she died in 1968 and I am not sure if open heart surgery was around back then. The problem with these poor souls who have rheumatic fever is that the not only frequently need bypass surgery but they also need valve replacement surgery as well, and sometimes that is just too much for the body to take.
So, Darin dies at age 37 after his second open heart surgery in 1973. He needs both his artificial heart valves replaced because he failed to take his pre-treatment antibiotic before a dental procedure. He then develops an infection after his dental procedure which of course attacks his valves. His surgery lasts 6 years, he is taken to the recovery room and dies there without regaining consciousness. From all accounts he knew he was suppose to take those antibiotics but didn't’t.
Garfield dies at the age of 39, after not sleeping for two nights in a row, playing 10 strenuous rounds of tennis, and then eating all the wrong foods. If he really died in his sleep or while doing something else it is not clear. The women whose apartment he died in had a lot of “holes” in her story. She also refused to let the police in when they got word Garfield had died. The police after one hour finally were forced to breakdown her door. (Makes one think was she trying to fix "things" or hide something she didn't want the police or press to know.)
Virginia died at age 41, very young for a woman even in 1968. I don’t imagine she lead the rather wild and at times foolish life styles that both Darin and Garfield did.
I would just like to know if she knew she was dying or did she really just suddenly die in her sleep?
So with Darin, I know his life could have been saved had he only taken his antibiotics prior to his dental appointment. I am kind of mad at Darin for this stupid move. I really loved him as a singer and he could have given his fans many more years of enjoyment.
With Garfield, I am not sure if his life could have been saved.Maybe if he really wasn't feeling well and did allow his friend to call a doctor. I really think though that he was so stressed and upset about the HUAC mess, the FBI following, his phone being tapped, his blacklisting and then seeing his friends turn their backs on him was just too much. I kind of believe what his daughter said, "My father didn't really die of a heart attack but more from a broken heart."
With Virginia I am pretty sure her life could have been saved had she sought out medical treatment. However, I guess her religious beliefs would not allow her to do this. I can imagine that her fans might have trouble understanding her decision.
It is very sad though that all three of these very talented people had to die at such early ages.
I hope this helped somewhat. I also hope you don’t mind that I brought both Darin and Garfield in the picture but I thought it was interesting that all 3 basically died from the same thing.
Please feel free to ask me anymore questions regarding Virginia’s early death. Especially if you find out how she actually died. (Did she know she was dying or did she die in her sleep.)
Lori
Time To Confess
in General Discussions
Posted
Hey SansFin. Don't you know it is not the height of a man that counts, but rather it is the man in the height that counts! Huh, well I think it went something like that.
I have always liked the "shorter male' (again just my personal preference) maybe it is because I always thought they tried a little harder.
In bare feet me and my husband are about the same height, in heels I am obviously taller than him, but we have made work just fine for us.
Lori