HoldenIsHere
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Posts posted by HoldenIsHere
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I did some research into the supposed "alternate" ending of LAURA ordered by 20th Century Fox, which was supposedly received negatively thus allowing Otto Preminger to get the the ending he wanted for the fim.
Apparently this "mystery" was by and large cleared up in an article by Jacques Lourcelles published in 1978 in the French magazine L’AVANT-SCENE, but there is still some confusion about this even in the audio commentary on the DVD release of LAURA.
It seems that Preminger himself created much of this confusion by including in his autobiography an account of how Darryl Zanuck demanded a new ending after seeing a rough cut of the film and how a screening of the movie with this new ending before an invited audience, that included Walter Winchell, was positively received except for the ending. In Preminger's account, Zanuck thought the movie would be a failure and was amazed that Winchell expressed to Zanuck and Preminger how much he loved it, EXCEPT for the ending. According to Preminger, Zanuck then allowed the "original" ending to be restored.
In reality, it appears that there was no change in the ending after this screening, but rather a portion was cut from the scene where Laura explains to Mark how much she owes Waldo after Mark has
related the circumstances of Diane's murder by Waldo, who mistakenly thought he was killing Laura.
In the cut portion, Laura explains that Waldo's version of how they met was his own invention, that in reality the two met when he saw her at night court and paid her fine after she was wrongly picked up for vagrancy in Central Park after she was evicted from her apartment, being unable to find work. He then got her a job. In the released version of LAURA, you can see the attempt to bridge the cut segment of the dialogue between Laura and Mark by the re-insertion of an earlier shot of Waldo at the top of the stairs outside the apartment in the middle of their conversation.
The initial script did have a different ending than one in the film, but this ending appears to have been abandoned before it was shot.
In the original scripted ending, Laura finds the gun hidden in her clock and realizes Waldo was the murderer. She hides the gun in her storage room and then goes to Waldo's apartment and tells him she knows he was trying to kill her (that she found the gun and hid it in her storage room) and begs him to flee before he is caught. Although he promises her to do so, he later goes to her apartment, retrieves the gun from the storage room and tries to kill her. Mark intervenes, saving Laura, and Waldo is arrested.
Again, this ending apparently was never filmed.
There are more details in Olivier Eyquem's and Despina Veneti's blogs on their Preminger Film Noirs website:
http://premingernoir.co/2014/01/30/the-mystery-of-lauras-first-ending/
Preminger's account in his autobiography about restoring his original ending after Walter Winchell's negative reaction to the Zanuck-ordered revised ending is confusing, given that the original scripted ending (with Laura finding the gun) is not the one in the released film. And, if this ending had actually been filmed, then Preminger's account of Zanuck asking if he wanted his (Preminger's) old ending back is questionable.
Preminger claims that the revision that Zanuck ordered involved a narration by Laura "which contradicted and negated everything that we saw before," the ending which, according to Preminger, led Winchell to comment, "I didn’t get it."
What I think is more likely than an ending that "negated everything" that preceded it was a portion of the scene between Laura and Mark that reveals Waldo's account of his first meeting with Laura and how he came to endorse the pen to be his own invention written for his column. The cut portion of the scene includes this line by Laura: "You see, Mark, you simply don’t understand Waldo. He dramatizes everything. To him, I, like everything else, am only half real. The other half exists only in his own mind." In the final edit of the film----the one everyone knows----it is pretty apparent that a segment of this scene between Laura and Mark has been cut. After Laura's line "I owed him too much," there is a strange cut to a shot of Waldo at the top of the stairs, which is in fact a re-insertion of the earlier shot of Waldo after he left Laura's apartment then glanced to the right (toward the door of the apartment). The shot of Waldo holds until he moves off right. There is then a cut back to Laura in the apartment with Mark entering the left of the frame saying, "I can understand that, Laura. "
So it appears that it was not an "alternate" ending that "contradicts and negates everything" before it but a portion of a scene that alters the characters of Waldo and Laura which has been cut
The original scripted ending with Laura rather than Mark finding the gun in the clock would not negate the preceding events of the story but would only change the resolution.
Vera Caspary's novel LAURA, from which the movie was adapted, actiually has three different narrators. The first part of the book is narrated by Waldo Lydecker, the second part by Laura Hunt and the final part by Mark McPherson.The movie, opening with Waldo's famous voice-over "I shall never forget the weekend Laura died," initially appears to be a story told from his perspective, but eventually becomes a third-person narrative. One interesting difference between the book and the movie is the physical appearance of Waldo. In the book he is described as overweight. In the section narrated by Laura, she mentions his "fat b-u-t-t-o-c-k-s" on the couch. And at the end of the book (narrated by Mark), Waldo and Mark tumble down stairs after Waldo tries to kill Laura, and Mark describes being crushed under the weight of Waldo's 250 pounds.
I'm bumping this thread since LAURA is being discussed again on these boards.
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Stretching is different from cropping. Stretching uses the full image but when stretched sideways, it makes everyone look short and fat. Cropping doesn't distort the image, it just cuts off some of the top and bottom by removing that area of the 4:3 film.
You are correct. The image is not actually stretched. The aspect ratio of 4:3 is stretched to 16:9, but this is accomplished through cropping the vertical not actually stretching the image.
Sorry for the confusion.
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Once again, the Robin Hood image this morning was that of a box in the centre of the TV, with bars on top, bottom and both sides of the TV screen. I saw no sign that any of the image of the film itself had been cropped.
Correct, window boxing does not crop the image.
The entire 4:3 image is preserved.
The faux widescreening on The History Channel that Fred was referencing does crop the 4:3 image that has been stretched to 16:9.
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Can you tell if the windowboxed area of Casablanca or other 4:3 films ware still in 4:3, or have they been cut at the top and bottom to make them appear to be "wide screen" films?
The History Channel's VIETNAM IN HIGH DEFINITION and WW II IN HIGH DEFINITION are cropped top and bottom so the images will be wide screen, even though the original images were shot in 4:3 on 16mm and 35mm film. Consequently, the tops of some heads are cut off in the HD versions.
What you're referring to on the History Channel is the "stretching" of a film shot in 4:3 to create faux widescreen.
And, yes, this does result in the cropping of the top and bottom.
Window boxing on a HD channel preserves the original 4:3 aspect ratio of a film.
The 4:3 image is surrounded by black (which covers the remainder of the 16:9 screen).
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I don't have TCM HD.
Right, the standard definition feed is now a downgrade of the HD feed.
I think this took effect a few months ago.
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I caught the last ten minutes of the Adventures of Robin Hood this morning and saw that it was compressed into a box square in the middle of the TV screen, with black bars on both the tops and sides of the screen. It's always been full screen before. The film itself took up perhaps 80% to 85% of my TV screen instead of the usual 100%.
I've never seen TCM present a film like this before.
The next film to come on, Elizabeth and Essex, was full screen.
Yankee Doodle Dandy just started. At first I thought it was full screen but now I see that it, too, has thin bars along the sides, and thinner ones at the top and bottom. Like Robin Hood it is like a box, but, since it is almost full screen, it is not nearly as pronounced as was Robin Hood.
With Yankee Doodle some might not even notice it, but with that Robin Hood presentation this morning the compressed image was unmistakable.
What gives?
The non-widescreen movies that are being window-boxed are likely in high definition.
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In the scene on the deck while her mother was writing the check, the black head covering became almost sheer in the bright sunlight and you could see the baldness underneath. But dealing with it brought out her creative side, as well as the magpie in her, as she appropriated all sorts of things to substitute for conventional headgear.
The song "Revolutionary Costume For Today" that opens the second act of GREY GARDENS THE MUSICAL wonderfully describes Little Edie's incorporation of the objects at her disposal to create her unique wardrobe, including her headgear:
You fight city hall
With a Persian shawl
That used to hang on the bedroom wall
Pinned under the chin
Adorned with a pin
And pulled into a twist.
Reinvent the objet trouvé
Make a poncho from a duvet
Then you can be with cousin Lee
On Mr. Blackwell's list.
The full-length velvet glove hides the fist.
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Something I meant to say earlier about this film.
It's interesting the way the quasi-Louis Malle character, Julien Quentin, is depicted. At first I didn't like him, thought him arrogant and a bit bully-ish (despite his slight build).
But as the story progresses, I found myself liking him more and more. The arrogance and bossiness were just a protective device Julien used, since he did not have any close friends. It's quite lovely to see the tentative way the delicate friendship between Julien and Jean develops.
It's interesting that Malle has Julien's mother jokingly comment to him before he boards the train to school that she'd like to disguise herself as a boy and be with him at school.
Then later at school he begins to form a friendship with a boy who is "in disguise."
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Has Marlon Brando's performance as Jor-El ever aired on TCM?
Intersting bit of trivia: Terence Stamp (who appeared as General Zod opposite Brando's Jor-El) was the voice of Jor-El in SMALLVILLE.
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Good discussion.
As you and your guests allude to, it's interesting that in both DeMille and Scorsese's films, Jesus is depicted with northern European features.
I guess we can blame European artists (from da Vinci and earlier) for turning Jesus into a Gentile.
And let's not forget Jeffrey Hunter in Nicholas Ray's 1961 movie:
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I saw this movie years ago and loved it. As mentioned, I appreciated all the little moments that added realism, as well as loving the look of the film. It's all the more poignant that the characters and victims are children. I wonder if Malle (this was autobiographical, right?) felt guilt about his friend? And that's what drove him to make this film? It probably would have been one of the most powerful memories of his life.
Yes, AU REVOIR LES ENFANTS is inspired by events that occurred in January 1944 when the 12-year-old Louis Malle was attending a Jesuit boarding school near Fontainebleau. Malle has admitted to changing and adding certain details (having Julien look back at Jean in the classroom when the Gestapo agents are present may have been one such detail) but the essence of Malle's experience is portrayed in the film.
I guess it's what would be referred to as semi-autobiographical.
Here's what Malle has said about his friend (whose real name was Hans Michel not Jean Kippelstein):
I was a very good student, but he was always a little in front of me. . . . We were both very shy, and he stayed away from having any sort of a deep relationship because he didn't want to give away who he was, but I know that I felt he was going to become my best friend. In this case, it didn't happen, and it was so brutal, so unacceptable, because he was taken away from me.
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Realize that thinking something could be better and still fundamentally liking it can be a compatible thing. There are plenty of movies I love but still think could be loads better. For instance, I'm a fan of GONE WITH THE WIND, big fan-- but I think it could have been better (tries to compress too much of the book into an epic motion picture, and it bogs down in parts because of it). I know, shoot me, right? LOL
I'm a perfectionist. I always want a 9 to be a 10. In this case, I see that on the IMDb, I gave KLUTE an 8, which means I did like it. Trust me, I'm pretty brutal sometimes with my criticism-- so if I gave something an 8 despite the faults I found in it, I still managed to like it.
Sure but you actually said you didn't like it on these boards and I quote you here:
" As I walked upstairs and turned off the light, a wave of cinemotion overcame me. In a brief moment, I realised: 'I don't like KLUTE.' A pause, and then another realisation: 'I think it's okay not to like KLUTE. I can't like every motion picture I see.' And I tried to shrug it off and went to bed.
It is morning now. And I still don't like KLUTE."
Bold added for emphasis
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The edge has worn off a bit. But when I went to bed last night, I had just finished watching KLUTE (for the first time) on TCM. As I walked upstairs and turned off the light, a wave of cinemotion overcame me. In a brief moment, I realised: 'I don't like KLUTE.' A pause, and then another realisation: 'I think it's okay not to like KLUTE. I can't like every motion picture I see.' And I tried to shrug it off and went to bed.
It is morning now. And I still don't like KLUTE. And I am trying to figure out why.
***possible spoilers ahead***
First major thought. It tries too hard to be a romance. I think it would have been better if they didn't hook up (the characters played by Fonda and Sutherland). I also would have made Sutherland's character impotent, or else some sort of religious guy who did not believe in sex outside marriage, so that Fonda had more of a challenge. He was easy pickings for her and this bored me.
Second major thought. The film and Pakula's direction is too self-conscious. It keeps trying to remind us how hip it is, whether it's Fonda's costuming or the spicy dicey soundtrack or the agonizing self-recriminations that Fonda undergoes inside her therapist's office. The whole thing seems like laying down naked on a lonely stretch of beach and expecting a cool wave to engulf you, but the tide doesn't really come in and only vultures swoop down and start to pick at you.
Third major thought. The story itself is weak and cliched and dragged out. The characterizations are supposed to keep us riveted in those moments when the plot has come to a screeching halt. Sometimes that works, but most of the time it is tedious and we just want the story to move forward, to pick up the pace.
Fourth major point. What I enjoyed most in KLUTE was the editing. And I think it is because there were so many dull spots that the editors had to work some magic to create the illusion there was action when there really wasn't any.
Fifth major point. I think she should have died at the end. And I think if they had not physically consummated the relationship, it would have been even more powerful and haunting if he walked the streets thinking about her and what maybe could have been. As it is, the ending tries to be a bit tongue-in-cheek ironic, with her leaving town with him and getting a call from a john-- but I really don't think we should be smiling when this picture ends.
Sixth major point. I read some user reviews on the IMDB where people complained the film's title was KLUTE (as opposed to BREE). But I do think this is correct. In the context of this story, she comes to be defined by him. But too much goes undeveloped. The name KLUTE, mere presence of KLUTE, should be both an impediment and her potential salvation. She should be haunted by this word, this guy, and how it is threatening her own independence-- as much as she is haunted by the demented john who is stalking her. So some of this is not fully fleshed out.
Seventh major point. I think she should have been even more shocking. My favorite scene is the one that takes place in the club-- we do not see Klute right away, but we can guess he is watching her. This particular sequence is complete voyeurism and fun to watch. We the audience are made to feel like we are on some sort of footing with Klute, watching her as he watches her. But I think she should have played it up more-- she should have taken one of those guys, even her pimp, into a dark hallway to toy with Klute, and she should have pretended to have lesbian tendencies flirting with another woman, to toy with Klute. In short, she should have owned that scene by playing into his own frustrated fantasies which I am sure she understood inside and out.
Have you re-watched the movie since posting this?
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Topbilled's pick for tomorrow:
Where: TCM.
Last aired: February 2015.
Reason to watch: Jane Fonda's performance. Check out Pauline Kael's comments:
Jane Fonda in possibly her finest dramatic performance, as Bree, an intelligent, high-bracket call girl, in Alan J. Pakula's murder melodrama. The life surrounding Bree's profession frightens her, but the work itself has particular compensations. She enjoys her power over her customers-- she's maternal and provocative with them, confident and contemptuously cool. And Fonda is very exciting to watch: the closest close-up never reveals a false thought and, seen on the movie streets a block away, she's Bree not Jane Fonda walking towards us.
I'm surprised you're recommending KLUTE, TopBilled.
Pauline Kael's comments aside, I recall you posted that you were not impressed with it after seeing it for the first time on TCM.
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I wish someone would post some of Donny and Marie's favorite recipes.
Marie Osmond’s Easy Lemon Cheesecake w/Blueberry Topping Ingredients
- 8oz Cream Cheese – Soften by bringing to room temperature
- 14oz can Sweetened Condensed Milk
- ½ cup “Real Lemon” brand Lemon Juice
- 1 Teaspoon Vanilla Extract
- Ready made Graham Cracker Crust
- Using a mixer, whip softened cream cheese until fluffy.
- Add Sweetened condensed milk and continue to whip.
- Add lemon juice and vanilla.
- When all ingredients are mixed well, pour into a ready-made graham cracker crust (or you can make your own).
- Place in refrigerator for a few hours to chill.
- After chilled, serve with your favorite fruit topping (Fresh, frozen or canned), or enjoy plain.
I do question her choice of using bottled lemon juice instead of juice from a real lemon. If lemon is such an integral ingredient, hence "Marie Osmond's Easy Lemon Cheesecake..." I don't know why you wouldn't use something fresh.
Has anyone tried to make Marie Osmond’s Easy Lemon Cheesecake w/Blueberry Topping yet?
Before I attempt to make it for my next soiree, I need some reviews.
speedracer, as much as I want to trust Marie Osmond, I also question her use of bottled lemon juice for a Lemon Cheesecake.
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I'd have respected him more if he just came out and said, "Ladies, I am homeless. May I use your pare bedroom and I will keep your cabin up in the off season..." Bette's character probably would have reacted better too--she seemed to be a practical sort.
Yes, his visit to Libby was very calculated.
It doesn't mean he was a bad person but his motive was to secure a a new place to live.
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Yes, it was mentioned several times that they lived somewhere else and only came to the cabin in the summer. So maybe they "lost" their accents over time, (thereby leaving the actresses off the hook!) Whereas Tricia lived there year round..........
I think the idea was that Libby and Sarah never had New England accents since they were not from New England.
Bette Davis in this movie was clearly speaking with a rhotic accent (that is, an accent where the consonant "r" sound is always pronounced).
In a great many of her movies, she speaks with a non-rhotic accent hence the classic Bette Davis impression "Petuh, give me the lettuh."
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I laughed a ton. The guy who tells the boss "I hope you die soon" when he asks if there's anything he can do for him. When the boss tells Hunter it must be wonderful to always believe you're right, and she, utterly incapable of recognizing his sarcasm, responds with heartfelt sincerity and genuine personal anguish, "No, it's AWFUL!" That last scene got a massive roar from the crowd when I saw it in the theater.
Also the boss's administrative assistant hiding her face in laughter when the guy (after he's been given "early retirement") tells the boss "I certainly hope you'll die soon."
Another great line of Holly Hunter's which she delivers with sincerity (making it all the more funny): "I have passed some line some place. I'm beginning to repel people I'm trying to seduce."
And when Hunter is producing the Libya story. She gets a call from a staff member about problems getting one of the guests to the studio in time. The boss witnesses her screaming into the phone: "Don't try. Do it! Or I'll fry your fat a-s-s, Estelle!" After Holly Hunter hangs up the phone the boss stares at her for a moment and then remarks to a colleague, "I had no idea she was this good."
And when Albert Brooks visits Hunter when she's getting ready for the dinner with Tom (William Hurt): When Brooks refers to it as a "date," she says it's not a date, only co-workers attending a professional conclave. THEN we see her take a box of of condoms out of a bag and plop it into her purse.
[When I first saw this movie on pan-and-scan VHS years ago I couldn't see exactly what she was putting into the purse although I could guess ... but seeing it on widescreen HD this week and on my Blu-ray I could see the Trojan's package very clearly.]
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I'd not really seen much of Ann Southren inmovies before this. She's really funny--are most of her films comedies? Also, It's interesting she's the only one who tried a Maine accent...
I got the impression that the Maine house was the longtime summer home for the family of Libby and Sarah (Davis and Gish) and that they were actually "from" somewhere other than New England.
I know that Libby mentioned her home in Pittsburgh.
It was interesting that Bette Davis did not sound New England-y. In many of her movies she did.
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It is heartbreaking how Julien inadvertently betrays his friend to the Gestapo in the end, by a simple turn of the head. Almost certainly the Germans would have found Jean anyway, but equally certain is the fact that the incident will haunt Julien for the rest of his life (as the voice over states at the end of the film.)
Yes, that is Louis Malle's own voice at the end. While Malle admits to have changed certain details, the essence of Malle's actual experience (especially that day in January 1944 when the three Jewish boys were taken) is captured in the movie.
One of the most intriguing characters for me is Joseph, the young kitchen helper at the school who's fired from his job for providing the students with black market items in exchange for their food from home and, in vengeance, alerts the Gestapo to Jewish boys at the school. François Négret is wonderfully memorable in that role.
Another wonderful scene is the one in the restaurant where the older Jewish man is harassed by the French collaborationist militia, who are ultimately rebuked by the restaurant staff and other guests including Julien's older brother. Also in that scene, Julien's mother remarks that she has no problem with Jews but becomes upset when Julien suggests that one of their own relatives is Jewish.
One thing I found interesting is that the English subtitles substituted "Easter bonnet" for the literal translation of ''bonnet de nuit" (nightcap), the expression that Jean Bonnet's classmates used to tease him about his name.
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It's possible that Julia Roberts lost all traces of a Southern accent after she moved to New York and began taking acting classes there. Or maybe she's not as skillful at switching between accents as, say, Joanne Woodward was.
It's perplexing that Julia Roberts was compelled to use a "fake" Southern accent for STEEL MAGNOLIAS rather than the real one she had at the time she was making the movie.
Note her accent when she's accepting her Golden Globes for STEEL MAGNOLIAS and for PRETTY WOMAN.
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It's actually Holly Hunter, not Helen Hunt. I remain baffled how egregious errors like this periodically show up on TCM. Much as I love this network, they still, after 21 years, seem incredibly amateurish at times.
Interestingly enough, James L. Brooks wrote the role of Carol in AS GOOD AS IT GETS for Holly Hunter.
The part was ultimately played by Helen Hunt.
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One of the beautiful things about "Broadcast News" is that Holly Hunter was allowed to be Southern -- she's from Conyers, Georgia, not far from Atlanta. Her accent in the movie is authentic, and she's been very lucky that she's been able to use it throughout her distinguished career.
Holly Hunter is a conservatory trained actor (she trained at Carnegie Mellon). She has played many roles on stage and on film in which she speaks convincingly in accents other than Southern (film examples include ONCE AROUND, WOMAN WANTED, HOME FOR THE HOLIDAYS, COPYCAT, LIVING OUT LOUD, THE INCREDIBLES ----yes she's the voice of Elastigirl!---- and the TV movie WHEN BILLE BEAT BOBBY).
What's impressive is that when she does play a character from the American South, she uses authentic Southern accents. Contrast that with Julia Roberts (who's also from Georgia) and her awful, fake-sounding Southern accents in STEEL MAGNOLIAS and CHARLIE WILSON'S WAR).
Holly Hunter's work in BROADCAST NEWS is at a level so rarely seen in a mainstream American movie in a "non-showy" role: a truly amazing and seamless blend of technical and emotional acting---creative and unexpected line interpretations and behavioral choices rooted in reality matched with a visceral inner life.
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Tomorrow on TCM:
Louis Malle's wonderful film hasn't aired on TCM since May 2012. It's worth seeing!
TCM is giving us a whole evening of Louis Malle films.
Yes!
The Mystery Surrounding the "Alternate" Ending of LAURA
in General Discussions
Posted
Below is the complete dialogue from the cut portion of the scene.
The cut dialogue is between Laura's line "I owed him too much" and Mark's line "I can understand that, Laura. But what I can’t understand is why you’ve tried so hard to protect Shelby these last few days."
There is an attempt to bridge the cut by the reinsertion of the shot of Waldo on the stairs.
MARK (exasperated)
You don’t owe him a thing.
LAURA
I owe him everything I am.
MARK (impatiently)
Just because he endorsed that pen five years ago, for a nice fat check—
LAURA
He told you that story, too?
MARK
It’s true, isn’t it?
LAURA (shaking her head)
You see, Mark, you simply don’t understand Waldo. He dramatizes everything. To him, I, like everything else, am only half real. The other half exists only in his own mind. The story he told you about the pen was one he had written for his column. Once he writes something, he believes it. Do you know where he actually first found me? In a night court. I had been picked up for vagrancy.
Mark reacts as from a physical blow.
MARK
Vagrancy?
LAURA
Oh, I wasn’t guilty. It was just something that happens every day, I suppose. I came to New York, looking for a career. Highest honors in art school back home– the usual background. But I couldn’t get a start. One night I found myself locked out of my room. They picked me up on a bench in Central Park.
She shakes her head unhappily at the memory.
LAURA
The judge wouldn’t believe my “hard luck story”. But Waldo believed me. He was in court, gathering material for his column. He came forward and paid my fine. Then he called Bullitt and Company, and got me a job. I went to work the same day.
(she looks up at him)
It isn’t easy to forget anything so wonderful as that.
Mark is touched by the story, but still puzzled.