CaveGirl
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Posts posted by CaveGirl
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40 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:
I've never seen the whole film just bits and pieces, but you can see how much cinema was changing and quickly in the 60s. No wonder you have a large contingent here that wants to stay safely in the 40 and 50s. They were starting to push that bubble.
I particularly like that movie as it has Ernest Thesinger in it, and I so enjoy seeing him in his later vestiges. Of course, he looked ancient even back in the 1930's, but that skeletal facial look, is always in fashion, just like Tom Petty.
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On 9/21/2018 at 9:28 AM, Swithin said:
Ivo van Hove, one of the most innovative theater directors (Belgian, but works often in London and NY), is working on a new adaptation of All About Eve, to open in London in early 2019. It will star Gillian Anderson and Lily James.
Well, agewise interestingly Bette was only around forty-one as Margo, and Gillian is around fifty which I found hard to believe, so that could work. Plus Gillian is a fine actress and possibly could pull this off well.
Don't know enough of the work of the other actress, but would say that part is the harder one to pull off. Anne Baxter had just the right touch.
Thanks for the info though! -
15 hours ago, mrrogers said:
Just spotted the window in Tony Randall's apartment in The Brass Bottle.
I think there is a simple answer for why you see so many skylights and whole open areas of windows with such, in films about artists.
Romantically speaking, many artists are written about as having lived in garrets. Garrets are by definition the topmost floor of a building or the attic like spot, and often small and dreary due to being cheaply rented. Their one high spot would be the open window system, since it would provide great lighting for artwork. Otherwise the dinky apartment or space would not be of much value. So garret goes with artist like graveyards go with spooks, and a quick movie shortcut to portray someone is an artist, is to put them in a garret. I've rarely if ever heard the word "garret" without an artist being mentioned in the same sentence.
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6 minutes ago, Dargo said:
Yeah, I know. BUT, speaking of ol' Ish...
Do you remember when the Beatles first hit the scene and how many of our parents said their hairstyles looked like Ish's from back in their day?
(...in fact, that might have been the very first time I ever heard his name mentioned)
I'd like to remember that, but when the British Invasion hit our shores, was the year I had all the cataract problems and also had to get that complete set of dentures, and I missed a lot of those Ed Sullivan shows sadly.
I sure always enjoyed when Eddie Boy would speak to Topo Gigio though and have the really good singers on, like Tony Martin and not all those rock and roll acts. Pshaw!
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17 minutes ago, TopBilled said:
I don't think there's really a double standard here. There are plenty of examples of the woman-child type. In both situations, the man-child and the woman-child may be presented as unformed or as simpletons, whether it is for dramatic or comedic purposes.
Of course it gets exaggerated differently, depending on the genre. In gangster flicks, the ditzy moll is the woman-child. In a sitcom, it might be the daffy elderly woman like Billie Bird in Dear John, Alice Ghostley in Designing Women or Betty White in The Golden Girls.
Ooooh, I had no idea a conversation about the Man-Child persona could become so heavy and scholarly, TB!
I have nothing against female candidates and think your Baby Snooks one was accurate, but years ago when I had a book about this subcategory, I did remember that it was believed in the true sense of the original meaning of Man-Child that there were many more pejorative senses that related only to males and that one seldom saw a female with similar traits in totality in that sense. Just looked up a few things online which perhaps can explain this theory and distinctions between the two sexes a bit better than I:
"The character is almost Always Male. This is (presumably) to contrast the differences between him and "normal men" with the normal responsibilities and wisdom of adulthood. The female version is usually split between The Ingenue, the Genki Girl, or other tropes which highlight an adult woman's child-like attributes rather than her grown-up persona. Manchild has many more negative connotations than The Ingenue; the manchild's immaturity and lack of outward adult behavior is emphasized as being a bad thing versus being an emphasized good thing like The Ingenue's purity and idealism. This is also because of the Double Standard most societies have, which exist for various reasons, where they expect more from men than they do from women. On the Brain Chain, the Man Child occupies a space between The Cloud Cuckoolander and The Ditz, but without necessarily becoming The Fool. He usually does not have The Fool's luck, but he doesn't necessarily play the role of the Butt-Monkey either. Although the Man-Child is commonly portrayed as being mentally challenged he does not necessarily have to be. In many cases, the character may be very intelligent, and even leave the idealism aside and be very shrewd in business or career, but this only throws him deep in the Uncanny Valleywhen others find out his emotional immaturity. Alternatively, his childlike qualities/way of thinking, when intelligently applied, can be a basis for his success as a businessman, in which case he's also The Wonka.In comedic works, he usually plays the role of The Ditz. In dramatic works, he could be the Jerk with a Heart of Gold due to his simplicity or immaturity, or he could be the sympathetic character we come to love. Sometimes the Man Child embarks on a late-in-the-day Coming-of-Age Story, which ushers him into true adulthood. Note that usually Sex as Rite-of-Passage works only some of the time. In many instances, A Man Child is not necessarily a virgin, but only sees sex as a tool of pleasure and does not recognize its emotional significance. If he ever gets married, it's likely that his wife will end up being a mother-figure not only to their children but to him as well, doing all the "emotional labor" needed to keep the household afloat while he just coasts along and drags her into all sorts of wacky hijinks.
One of the Kids is related, in where their childishness is caused by spending a lot of time around children.
Does not relate to Never Grew Up, because they physically did grow up - but never outgrew being attached to immature or childish things or behavior. Sister Trope (perhaps) to Adults Dressed as Children, although that trope is almost always played for laughs or borders on the grotesque. Compare Keet, One of the Kids, Kiddie Kid. For a villainous version, see Psychopathic Manchild. Compare Basement-Dweller. Not related to Manchild, the British TV series, either. Compare and contrast The Three Faces of Adam. Contrast with Wise Beyond Their Years, where a child acts like an adult."
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27 minutes ago, Dargo said:
So CG, sorry but I have to ask here.
What brought to mind this whole "Man-Child" thing here anyway?
What, you've been maybe reading a lot of Tweets emanating from 1600 Pennsylvania Ave lately or somethin'??? LOL
(...sorry, couldn't resist...and now to seriously answer your question here...)
As Feego just mentioned, over the years there have been many a Man-Child type comedian in films, but in the field of movie dramas, the first example(s) of both genders that sprang to my mind were the characters Robert Stack and Dorothy Malone played in Written on the Wind. Both of them having been spoiled by their father's wealth.
Tarnation, Dargo...didn't ya read my post? I said while routing through my old mementos I found the photo of Ish Kabibble, which naturally brought to mind the Man-Child scenario. Besides I've been banned from all sites titled "Tweets by Twits" on the entire Internet.
Yeeesh and double Yeeesh!
I have noticed my thread being overtaken by a desire to prove there are examples of the "Woman-Child" in films, and I'm actually surprised you did not bring up one of your favorites, Lolita Haze, or Lolly as you like to call her when you visit your shrink and talk about your dreams, but I digress...
Robert Stack as the tobacco heir probably is a good choice for a Man-Child in a non-comedic role. I thought for sure you'd be mentioning someone who liked to yell out "Laaaa-Deeeeeee" in films with Dino, so thanks for thinking outside the box! -
24 minutes ago, Feego said:
Sissy Spacek is perhaps a less obvious example, but it's interesting that she spent the early part of her career playing characters much younger (or at least younger-seeming) than herself. She was in her twenties when she played a 15-year-old in Badlands, a 17-year-old in Carrie, and 13-year-old Loretta Lynn in the early part of Coal Miner's Daughter. Then there was her strange character in 3 Women, whose age is not revealed but who definitely seems very immature. I wouldn't say that Spacek necessarily looked young for her age, but she was incredibly adept at capturing the mannerisms and insecurities of teenagers in a believable way.
Sissy did a great rendition of the state of mind of Caril Fugate, on whom the role was patterned. Her romance with the older Starkweather, who did have the James Dean fixation, was well done in Malick's "Badlands".
She is more Child-Woman than most in films, and Spacek was good at portraying females of that nature in roles like, was it Pinky, in Altman's "3 Women". Sissy was also wonderful as a youthful Loretta Lynn! Thanks for your post.
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23 minutes ago, Feego said:
Leslie Caron would probably be one of the shining examples of someone who earned her initial fame as a woman-child. Her roles in An American in Paris, Lili, The Glass Slipper, and Gigi are all very childlike, made even more glaringly so by the fact that she's cast in all four movies with actors who were 10 to 15 years her senior.
Another great example is Carroll Baker in Baby Doll.
As for man-children, this certainly applies to many a comedian. From Lou Costello and Jerry Lewis to Adam Sandler, many male comedians have built their comic personas on being oversized children.
Good choices, Feego!
I think the reason that the term "Woman-Child" is not used in general, as Man-Child might be, is due to the fact that just being a bit childish, still can be an appealing trait in an ingenue type way, or waifish role, whereas the term "Man-Child" is a lot more pejorative in the sense of portraying characters who seem feeble-minded, doofy and literally foolish, like in a Jerry Lewis way or perhaps like one of the Stooges. Sandler is definitely a spin-off of the ingrained Man-Child in films role, but people like Caron doesn't have all the pejorative side-traits. But I did ask for possible contestants who were female so am totally enjoying seeing all these feminine parts being mentioned and thanks so much! -
1 hour ago, rayban said:
"The Roman Spring of Mrs. Stone" - Jose Quintero - 1961 -
When her wealthy, older husband dies, an aging actress (Vivien Leigh) decides to retire and move to Rome.
For some strange reason, she finds herself at a loss.
She seems to have no interests - no hobbies.
She becomes "fixated" on having sex with young men.
She is introduced to a "candidate" (Warren Beatty) by a procurer, Lotte Lenya.
But Mrs. Stone (Vivien Leigh) is somewhat reluctant to begin a "liasion".
Eventually, she succumbes to his obvious charms.
But their relationship is skin-deep - she provides the money, he provides the sex.
Meanwhile, a filthy street urchin (Jeremy Spenser) has been following her.
He is hoping to capture her attentions.
"What do you want?", she cries out.
Eventually, Mrs. Stone loses her "boy-toy" - he becomes attracted to a much younger woman.
And Mrs. Stone falls into the arms of the filthy street urchin.
The film, which has many fine and memorable moments, is dominated - and weakened - by the parched performamce of Vivien Leigh, who seems to be struggling for air.
When she falls into the arms of Jeremy Spenser, you just know that the end is not far off.
The film is basically a hard-hitting testimony to the inescapable fact that love for sale is not an beneficial enterprise for anyone - the buyer or the seller
Lotte Lenya's formidable, terrifying performance captures the forbidding soul of this movie.
Love this movie and you are right, Lotte Lenya steals the show.
Fabulous exegesis, Rayban!
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1 minute ago, TopBilled said:
Also, she has a lot of tomboy in her. So she is probably both, a woman-child and on some level a man-child.
Right on, I think Julie Harris was in her mid-twenties when she played that role, but was quite believable in it as almost prepubescent.
Until K.D. Lang came along, Julie probably held the role of best girl resembling tomboy in show biz. She's always been one of my favorite actresses so thanks for mentioning her.-
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5 minutes ago, TopBilled said:
They exist.
Julie Harris' character in THE MEMBER OF THE WEDDING comes to mind.
You may have defied the odds here, TopBilled!
Frankie definitely is childlike and when she keeps forcing people to call her Jasmine, and is mean to poor little Brandon de Wilde and won't even scrape the dirt off her elbows as Ethel Waters tells her too, one thinks maybe she is a Woman-Child. Of course she's not really supposed to be a grown woman yet though, but she might just stay in that immature state into her twenties and beyond, so good call on your part!
Postscript: Just got a scare looking at the bottom photo of Frankie. That bouquet looks just like the one for Carlotta that Kim Novak gets in "Vertigo"...yikes!-
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On 9/20/2018 at 9:00 PM, cigarjoe said:
Nice tans!
I'm afraid to ask what is going on in the background of the scene at the lower left....
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19 hours ago, Vautrin said:
I just watched the original version of Sleuth a few days ago. Sir Larry's old pile of a
country house would be a great place to live. So much room. And lots of peace and
quiet. I probably would hold a yard sale to clear out some of the old knickknacks and
paddywhacks he kept around. Just a little too much.
Yeah, those old country homes in England are super! As long as there is not too much chintz. Another library I'd like to visit would be on Baker Street in London. I tried to find it after I had explored Fleet Street and visited Whitechapel but alas...it was not to be found, alas. Thanks, Vautrin.
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Back when I volunteered to be a hostess at the local USO during The Big One, I met my first Man-Child in the form of Kay Kyser associate, Ish Kabibble. Now since I was quite a bit older than many of the USO "girls", and with my lumbago and sacroiliac acting up a lot, I didn't dance with servicemen but spent my time chatting with the ones who couldn't dance, like...Ish. I learned a lot about him and found he was not really the Man-Child he appeared to be to audiences. But in reminiscing yesterday over the autographed photo he gave me then, with his iconic haircut, I began to think of the Man-Child syndrome in films.
Supposedly the terminology of the Man-Child persona began with the character of Benjy Compson, a character in William Faulkner's novel, "The Sound and the Fury". I will say though this may be the origin of the term, there have been many new developments to the personality type since then particularly on the stage, in vaudeville and in films.This unresearched film tradition shall be the topic of my next book [if I live long enough] to be called "The Man-Child in Film History: Yay or Nay?" Being that the Man-Child in films usually possesses a quite naive and gullible persona, or to be blunt, is often a fool, there are many examples in films, both in comedic and non-comedic roles.
My favorite movie Man-Child is Harry Langdon. for the following reasons. His small stature, sad stare and childlike movements fit the bill, yet he brings an extra dimension to such roles with his eerie white face and occasional salacious grins. Though a well known silent star in the '20's in films like "Long Pants" and "Three's a Crowd" his career was derailed some say by people like Frank Capra or possibly Harry himself. Was he a genius or a buffoon? Both sides have their proponents, but one thing is for sure, he definitely fits the role of Man-Child to a "T"!
Name your favorite Man-Child character or actor in films. You are welcome to name Woman-Child characters if you can think of any, but apparently there seems to be little gender compliance with this term between the sexes. -
On 9/20/2018 at 6:15 PM, Dargo said:
No CG, you just need to watch and then remember you probably have seen this first season episode of TZ here...
https://www.cbs.com/shows/touched-by-an-angel/video/621821714/the-twilight-zone-perchance-to-dream/
(...and I most likely distinctly remember this one because of the very sultry actress Suzanne Lloyd playing the seductive character Maya in it)
I knew there had to be some hot tamale in anything you watch, Dargo!
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17 hours ago, Dargo said:
Yeah, YEAH! Didn't Richard Conte suffer from this?
(...well, in that one Twilight Zone episode, anyway)
Gee, I own the boxed set but don't remember the story.
Do I need a TZ brain scan? -
22 hours ago, Swithin said:
You may also know of another prion disease, though not one related to eating brains. It's called Fatal Familial Insomnia (FFI for short). It tends to be inherited. At a certain age, the patient loses the ability to fall asleep. It's quite terrible. One theory is that the disease affects the thalamus, which becomes rather spongy. As you know, the technical name for Mad Cow Disease is Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy.
I first heard of FFI when The New York Times published this article in 2001:
Wow, a disease I didn't know about, and now I might get it if I keep staying up till 6am watching movies on TCM!
Thanks, Swithin.-
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On 9/19/2018 at 4:51 PM, cigarjoe said:
Another: The Cook, the Thief, His Wife & Her Lover (1989) similar to Perfume: The story of a Murderer
Also SiFi : A Boy and His Dog (1975)
I will always remember the line at the end, "A boy loves his dog". Gotta say reading the Harlan Ellison story first made the film more enjoyable.
Thanks for the other submissions, CigarJoe. -
1 hour ago, David Guercio said:
I,m sure you all have herd that Neil Diamond,s Hot August Night III concert will be airing on PBS this Saturday September 22nd. I tried looking for it on channel 9 and channel 22. Which is another PBS channel and I couldn’t find it. So if anyone knows which PBS channel it,s on and what time it,s on? Let me know. So I could tivoe it. I have Direc TV. Thank you all so much for your help.
I would say find your local PBS station and check their schedule. In my area it is playing on Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 8pm, and again on Tuesday, September 25th, 2018.
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2 hours ago, FilmSnob said:
Bicycle Thieves (De Sica, 1948)
The huge number of wipe transitions annoyed the heck out of me, but otherwise a really good film. Totally unexpected but authentic ending. The bike plot stopped there, but makes you wonder about the untold psychological aspects of the rest of the story.
Watched it on Filmstruck.
Great movie and the relationship between son and father is so touching!
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4 hours ago, cinemaspeak59 said:
I'd like to travel back in time to 1933 New York City and hang around the theater where the musical 42nd Street takes place, then travel forward to 1960 Rome and accompany Marcello Mastroianni's character to observe the glitterati in La Dolce Vita. I'm choosing safe places. As much as I love film noir, I don't want to take my chances with a femme fatale.
Wow, what a fine road trip that would be, cinemaspeak!
Say hi, to Busby for me and enjoy your time wading in the Fountain of Trevi.
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3 hours ago, Sepiatone said:
Gawd! It'd probably be more confusing and much colder than that hedge maze in THE SHINING.
But one imaginary movie place I'd LOVE to visit, is THE EMERALD CITY in the land of Oz, and get "a clip,clip here" and "a clip, clip there" by those leggy ladies at the WASH & BRUSH UP CO.
Maybe too, a leasurely stroll through 'TOON TOWN.
With a quick stop for a malted milk in PLEASANTVILLE.
Sepiatone
Would you be in the black and white "Pleasantville" or the colorful version, Sepia, or maybe just a sepia wash town like Dorothy's in Kansas?
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4 hours ago, cigarjoe said:
IMAGINARY PLACES YOU'D LIKE TO VISIT?
Twumps brain but I'd have to find it first.....
You could do that if you also visited the personnel in the movie "Fantastic Voyage" and they could shrink you down to enter his bloodstream.
If you brought along the FV's star, Raquel Welch, you might get admittance to his bwain.
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18 hours ago, TomJH said:
Klopstockia
Because I like the name Angela and I think I can out arm wrestle W. C. Fields
Good call, Tom!
I'd also kill to visit Klopstokia, just to hear Jack Oakie sing The Klopstokian Love Song.The words "Woof bloogle gik" are always so endearing and a turn on...
What's up with artists and their windows?
in General Discussions
Posted
Oh, no!
I hate that show, Dar. No show should have a title saying "everyone" loves something unless they know everyone in the world and their opinions.
You're a stitch!