CaveGirl
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Posts posted by CaveGirl
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This evolution from DeSade to Finley to March is predicated on the principle of the oppressed becoming the oppressor.
Unlike Stockholm Syndrome where the captive begins to bond with the captor, as in "The Man Who Loved Cat Dancing" the victim in "Justine" seems to be a precursor of poor demented Elsie, who is later read of by Rhoda and we all know what happened then.
Other examples will be appreciated of this type of syndrome in book or film.
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I went to Catholic grammar school, 1955 - 62, in Queens, NY.
St. Bartholomew in Elmhurst.
Nine o'clock Mass on Sunday, the children's Mass, was MANDATORY.
After Mass, we got a copy of The Tablet, the newspaper of the New York Archdiocese.
FIRST thing was to check out the Legion of Decency to see what movies were condemned.
These were the films we wanted to see!!!
PegLegGuy
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Hey, I used to date Peg Leg Bates so we are simpatico!
Yep, those A-4 ratings were fun to read about also.
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Purveyor of trumped up roman a clef fiction [as in "Julia"] or without peccadilloes ethically in her complete oeuvre?
Your opinion? -
He was top-notch at playing "Old Guy" and "Drunk Old Guy" and "Sweet Old Guy".
Oh, gosh you just made me forget Cyril since you have turned into one of my favorites, Charles Buchinsky!
I totally dig his looks, with his natural hairline showing as it did when he played, was it Igor in "House of Wax" and only went elsewhere when he started wearing the Beatle cut like in "Death Wish".
Thanks, Lawrence!
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LOL
Yeah, I DO think you're onto somethin' here with your Cyril/Eddie comparison, CG.
MWAH, as Dinah Shore might say!
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I also watched most of the Condemned segment, intros et all, but I have slept since then, so my comments will lean towards the general more than the specific.
If you'd gone into the prologue/epilogue sections with a view to getting any detailed discussion of the rights/wrongs of the stances taken by the LOD, or the shifting sands of what society regards as wholesome, then you would have clearly arrived at the wrong place - and to be fair, there was no real way that those topics could be serviced in any proper manner in the 2-3 minute soundbites at either end of each feature, especially when presented only by a single person who was inevitably going to be taken to represent the standards of their order (in their comments, or in the perceptions of those viewing).
I did get a sense that there was an attempt to deflect the viewer's attention away from issues where societal norms of acceptability have moved some distance away from the LOD's, especially with the comments with respect to respect to women, Native Americans & the law, but again, some of my own preconceptions could have caused me to latch on to that particular commentary.
From the films themselves, a couple of things have survived in my mind, despite the intervention of sleep between then & now:
- There was a genuine air of menace in The Story of Temple Drake whenever Trigger was around & the post car crash scene where he slowly moved up & down over Temple's body with his torch beam, evoked a pretty clear idea where events were likely to go next. Quite a sinister mood builder, without any need to be obviously graphic.
- With The Outlaw, I got the impression that the movie couldn't quite decide whether to be controversial with sex/violence, or intentionally light/amusing. Whilst I did note the casual all the Injuns are out to kill ya & the girl can't help but chase the (somewhat) bad guy tone, I really didn't sense any unusual disrespect to the law - the whole thing came across as more of a tongue in cheek nod in the vein of 'here's the Doc Holliday/Billy the Kid legend, lets have some (preferably profitable) fun with it'. From a marketing standpoint, the LOD was the best thing that could have happened for it.
- I didn't watch Design for Living this time round, as I'd seen it a while ago & remembered it as having usual Lubitsch wit & being clever to imply that a darn sight more was going on that it actually admitted to.
- As for Baby Face, I agreed with the review I'd seen that basically said, Great story build-up, but, oh - why the sappy feelgood ending (even without the once tacked on she then became a good person epilogue) - as a potential moral play, the hubby should have bit the bullet properly, with Babs left to reap the full proverbial whirlwind.
On the issue of whether it was an official sin to attend such films, I've always had the sense that individual priests/churches/diocese' had some leeway in their interpretations of various edicts. I do have vague memories as a very young 'un, of listening to adult after dinner scuttlebutt, where person A was exclaiming that person B had changed attendance to local church C from also local church D because the resident priest of the latter was variously either too wishy-washy liberal/fire'n'brimstone conservative (with all of the above being members of the same overall religious branch).
Back to the discussion of the prologues/epilogues - I was partly hoping that there would be a second person present to provide some possible counterpoint, but again, you'd really need to dedicate a decent amount of time for that, which was never the intention with these - they're best taken as 'Here's some films once considered rather controversial, intro'ed by someone who'd be presumed to have a certain viewpoint & some possible inside knowledge of the machinations behind why these were considered controversial'. Oh, and BTW, we have a nicely titled topical book for sale in the store this month...
Thanks, Limey for your as usual well expressed post and wise reflections.
I am totally enjoying the Condemned Festival as presented by TCM, my only complaint is that as usual they have someone who does not seem well versed in the subject matter, and appears to be more of a mouthpiece for Catholic Polemics as an extension of Catholic Apologetics, than someone knowledgeable about the real situation involving the Legion of Decency ratings guide and films of the era.
Again, I give the example of Sister Rose being clueless, in her remarks stating that the Legion of Decency condemned “The Outlaw” due to “its disrespect for the sheriff”. To begin with, Pat Garrett was not the most respectable gent in the West anyway, and one wonders if by this same made up, after the fact reasoning why the Legion of Decency would not have also condemned a work like “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” for its “disrespect towards a superior” since I don’t think Little Eva or others looked kindly upon Simon Legree. And remember, as you say it is hard to “service a topic in a two/three minute soundbite” but it was Sister Rose who chose to use her small amount of time to highlight the “disrespect” being an important issue for the LOD.
Is it too much to ask to find a host for these film series on TCM, who knows more about the subject matter and who is not bound to find ridiculous excuses for their sacred cows, in this case the LOD control tactics. I’m sure there might be a nun who is more well versed in these matters, but it is not Sister Rose, based on her remarks that she chose to make public on these films.
As always, I read so many posts by people right here on the message board who are way more informed on many of the film topics spoken of in these hosting duties, than those who promote themselves as experts and film critics or media megalomaniacs. Sad to say, that they don’t advertise themselves as such or maybe we’d have better hosts to lead such discussions before the films.
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"Cries and Whispers" by Bergman.
I've seen it before but had forgotten how visually stimulating it was. I also kept thinking, did every woman in the film have an affair with Bergman at one time. Harriet was quite good as the deathbed victim, and the sisters looked ravishing in the white outfits set upon a sea of blood red visuals. I bet this was what attracted Roger Corman to the film.
I had bad dreams after watching it, which I always enjoy and I will attribute this to all the cutting with glass, the maid Anna's unnecessary nude scenes and Liv Ullman's red hair.
Just kidding, it was great Bergman and worth watching if just for Sven Nykist's incredible cinematography.
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Tried to watch the next Bergman film, which reminded me of the soap opera in Lynch's "Twin Peaks" but I fell asleep during one of Dahlbeck's pirouetting and pouting scenes.
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Nice write-up here, CG.
And so people can place face to name here...
Dargo, you are so wonderful! Both a gentleman and a scholar and of course in agreement that Cyril looks like Eddie Redmayne [after a session with Jack Pierce maybe] doncha think?
I'll give you my very rare duck from the Groucho secret word vault, if you find it in your heart to agree, pretty please?
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Well, this is tough since I like the actors in the first version much better than the second, but the second does follow the real storyline. Okay, I guess I will have to go with the latter version.
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I believe I read in a book about Ann that she believed she was the Queen of Sheba reincarnated!
Well, if not that queen she certainly was of royal talent to be sure.
Loved her so much late in life, as the apartment complex manager in Lynch's "Mulholland Drive".
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I forgot to applaud and wish birthday greetings to one of my favorite character actors of all time, Cyril Delevanti.
He was born on February 23, 1887 in London and lived till 1975, appearing in scads of movies and tv shows even ending his career with such things as "Soylent Green" and a "Love American Style" episode.
He happened to be in the "Perry Mason" episode which was on today and I could not help but laugh when I realized that he looks like what Eddie Redmayne will, in about fifty years!
He played old men his whole life and was just as much fun to watch as Harry Davenport, but never had as meaty parts as the stage legend. Some films Cyril appeared in include, Phantom of the Opera, Son of Dracula, The Lodger, Phantom Lady, Ministry of Fear, Dressed to Kill, Monsieur Verdoux, Lured, Forever Amber, LImelight, Bye Bye Birdie, The Night of the Iguana and Mary Poppins plus bigger tv roles on Twilight Zone, Alfred Hitchcock Presents and he even played Grandpa Petrie on The Dick Van Dyke Show.Often uncredited but never forgotten once seen, Cyril was always a joy to watch with his shock of white hair and cute skeletal physiognomy [again, just like Eddie Redmayne's!]. I wonder how Cyril would have played the Danish Girl, but I digress.
Happy Belated Birthday, Cyril and thanks for all your great performances! If you'd like to visit his grave he is interred at Forest Lawn.
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TCM has announced that the 'sister' channel running NBN has worn out the film so is adding intermittent running of DOCTOR ZHIVAGO and LAWRENCE OF ARABIA as well as frequent movie previews of TORCH SONG (which will scare viewers awake).
Emily, a very vicious rumor that has been circulating for years is that Joan Crawford was the original owner of the Hair Club for Men and was its first patron with that horrid orange bob as seen in "Torch Song".
Joan also supposedly started the Eyebrow Club for Men for those who were eyebrow challenged and wanted their brows to look like those of Boris Karloff, but there was not much call for that service.
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Some men think "wives should never be seen", Down just as preventive medicine.
I own the boxed set of the three Doris/Rock films so didn't watch much, but did catch a few scenes with Randall and Hudson and they were amusing. Is there any movie where Tony Randall does not add so much to a film? Not to denigrate Hudson and Day though as they are cute together and I like Rock better in comedy than in drama.
There's a topic for you. Wives or husbands in films who are talked about but never seen.
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I receive several catalogs from companies selling DVD's. Last week I got one from TCM Shop.
Critics Choice, TCM Shop, The Video Collection and Heartland Music are all in Itasca, IL, but have different PO Boxes, phone numbers and web addresses.
You cannot order from one catalog using another one. I checked.
I also got that catalog with the TCM name on it and was a bit perplexed. I had thought that Movies Unlimited was basically the supplier for films ordered under the aegis of TCM, since I had even received a giant catalog a while back, which had the original Movies Unlimited logo, but had a sticker over it saying TCM. But it was the same catalog I already owned and had bought from MU for like ten bucks with a previous order. Seems to me that MU is in Pennsylvania, but I have no idea now if the two groups are still connected. I'm sure someone here can clear this up but I have not yet ordered from the TCM catalog that I received in the mail last week.
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I gotta second Midnight's choice of "Call Her Savage" with Clara Bow.
This film has everything scandalous, scurrilous and sacreligious that a fan of Pre-Code films could want. The title has a double edged meaning but I won't spoil it for you, TawfikZone.
Interestingly, while at an antique mall I saw the book it was based on by Tiffany Thayer and bought it for ten bucks. Went home, read it and decided to investigate Tiffany Thayer and to my utter surprise, Tiffany was, well...a man. Full name, Tiffany Ellsworth Thayer and the guy has quite an interesting history. Was a founder of the Fortean Society and hobnobbed with its luminaries like Hecht, Mencken, Woolcott and then became a bit of a despot in the organization. Was an advocate of the Pyrrhonism belief system and it has nothing to do with Pyrrhic victories, if you get my drift.
The book is fascinating as is the film and Clara is at her peak, even more than when she used to hang out with the UCLA football team.
I forgot to mention the film "Madame Satan". Now it has the old C.B. redemption touch, wherein DeMille shows debauchery and then tries to make people atone for it as in all his biblical epics, so it's not perfect but some of the visuals and settings are definitely risque.
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It's a nun whadda you expect
Being a nun is no excuse for inaccuracy when attempting to speak as an authority on a subject, Fuster but thanks for your thoughts.
Thanks also to Limey, Sepia and TawfikZone; it shall take me a while to absorb your more lengthy posts.
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I'd take Eddie's two best, "Cmon Everybody" and "Somethin Else", over Fats' two best, "I'm Ready", and "I'm Gonna Be a Wheel Someday".
This is one contest I can't enter, since they are each so great but in different ways. Cochran was innovative on the guitar and I own most all of his hits, but my favorite song of his has to be "Three Steps to Heaven" which the Who ripped off for the Overture to Tommy, and I'm glad they did, Of course all his stuff, is great but they give him short shrift in "Untamed Youth" which is sad and he is the only person in black and white in "The Girl Can't Help It" color sequences, but he was also one of the first rockers to wear leather pants on stage, so bravo. Fats is way different in singing style and playing, but I might say he is the better singer by far. Cochran gives a great performance always, but even with his imitations of the Kingfish, he still lacks Domino's vocal skills. I'm sure Sharon Sheeley would disagree though.
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MABUSE!
Have you noticed that Klein-Rogge has a most decidedly twisted nose? Very diabolic looking indeed.
Oh, here's my sad story about TTEODM. I bought the last copy of it somewhere, went home to view it all excited about owning it and it turned out that my copy was defective and they could not get me another as they were all supposedly defective. I only got to see about half the film before it kept sticking and getting all goofy, but what I saw I loved. Maybe TCM will show it just for me?
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An account set up by someone working for a publicity firm or the company itself (Sony) to create positive word-of-mouth as if from Joe Q. Public.
a.k.a. plant
Joe "Q." Public, eh?
Wonder what the "Q" stands for, Herr Doktor Mabuse?
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MABUSE!
Do I see a thousand eyes staring me down???
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This is Bronson from Death Wish VII: Weimar Justice.
Lawrence, am I losing it or have you turned from looking like Marlon to looking like Rudolf Klein-Rogge???
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I am going to sound outspoken, forgive me, but personally I was disappointed in the two films they chose to honor Ford on his 100th. They picked titles where he is second fiddle and in the shadows of a larger than life female costar (Rita Hayworth in GILDA and Bette Davis in A STOLEN LIFE).
When Glenn Ford was transitioning to television in the early 1970s, the president of CBS insisted he do a western-type show because his western movies were doing very well in the ratings when they were rerun on TV and they were popular at film festivals.
Since westerns are more his legacy, they should have picked at least one western, or something like BLACKBOARD JUNGLE where he's the main star, not overshadowed by a dominant female costar.
This feels like they are honoring Rita Hayworth and Bette Davis instead of Glenn Ford.
Yes, I was going to mention that I am truly shocked by you being so "outspoken", TopBilled as it is so unlike you!
Really now, this is like David Niven apologizing for being churly!
I think you need not worry ever about your manners being less than courtly here, TB. You kill me but yes, I do "forgive" you for your outburst and I also agree with you about giving Ford better films to represent him.
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So you can be fat and still get to 88. One of the 4 greatest '50s rockers, along with Chuck Berry, Little Richard, and Eddie Cochran, who wrote their own songs. Better, IMHO, than Buddy Holly.
Apologies to you Down, and all for making poor old Fats 97. My fingers on the keyboard are never going to be as exacting as his and this slipped in my excitement to wish Antoine well belatedly!
And though I love Fats, DGF I still would prefer to date that cutie, Eddie Cochran who had a better pompadour than even Edd Kookie Byrnes. By the way, they are showing "Untamed Youth" with Eddie singing in it during this current condemned fest this month. Watch for it.
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Can you guess the ones I'll be spotlighting?
In the week ahead:
Saturday March 5th: The Ricardos.
Sunday March 6th: Popular hillbilly trio.
Special series: Classic Ann 101
Monday March 7th: Tap dancing sensation.
Tuesday March 8th: WAR OF THE WORLDS actress.
Wednesday March 9th: Nora Prentiss.
Thursday March 10th: Australian actress in Hollywood during the 40s.
Friday March 11th: Before she was Maisie, she was teamed with this RKO leading man.
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I saw statues by Canova in Italy but am still partial to Judy so will keep my Sunday plans open! Love Ann Sothern in anything and look forward to seing her too. Thanks for giving us all something to look forward to this coming week, TB!
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Torch Song Tribute
in General Discussions
Posted
If you like Mid-Century Modern furnishings, then you should have recorded this most outre Joan Crawford vehicle.
Her apartment was crammed to the gills with some of the coolest furnishings ever, with George Nelson bubble type lamps, Knoll style living room couches and whatever, Lightolier type bedroom ceiling lights which Joan used to good advantage to pull down right over her face to highlight it in glowing incandescent starlight, amidst other cool props.
Oh, and Joan was totally in her element in all these scenes, and the furnishings in all participants abodes was very telling. Her mother lived in traditional decor, and Michael Wilding [even though blind] had a very classy place too which fit his character.
But beside the furniture, which was atomically out of this world, Joan's performance of the number "Two Faced Woman" in blackface is not to be missed.
If you did though, here it is:
https://www.google.com/search?q=furniture+in+Torch+song+movie&biw=1008&bih=618&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJu_SY1LbLAhXC6SYKHdKyBZ4Q_AUIBygC&dpr=1#tbm=isch&q=two+faced+woman+song&imgrc=RlMYdZQqFt7d0M%3A