CaveGirl

Honest to Gloria Blondell, I love all movies of Tod Browning. His love of carny folk and ability to show them as people and not objects, in films like "Freaks" and all his other wonderful classics, is testament to his character in my book. Love his absolute fondness for the seeming weird and outre, and general mien at producing such distinctive films, unlike any others of the time.

All those who are this detail oriented on movie stuff, need to stick together, Hoganman! Maybe we should start a website, called "Delineating Filmic Details" or at least the more crass, "Essential Yet Unimportant Movie Trivia for Addicts"?

Speaking of shows with a Western slant, I don't even like to eat at a Chuck Wagon, Dargo.

Really good one, on that AAB record question, Jimmy! I might be hallucinating but I think Bob Dylan covered it on one of his bootleg, Basement Tape albums on those Pig or Swine labels. I think my older brother used to play it occasionally but I could be wrong. I wonder who got the royalty checks if not Bobby Bare?

Thanks for the kind words, Jimmy! So to pay you back, here's a true Norm or George Wendt tale. A guy I know, who we all went to school with, came back to town and we decided to go to an event in the downtown area, which always in the summer would have a celebrity guest. This guy, was from a family of four boys, who were all hellions in grade school and as the story goes, his father said one day "I've had it with all of you, one of you is going to military school to knock some sense into you!" None of them of course wanted to go, so they sent the oldest one. The other three continued on their way, being rebels but he came back after four years, wearing suits, wing tip shoes, with short hair and totally oblivious to all current music, movies and stuff. Became kind of like a young Richard Nixon. So, now it is some years later and he still is Mister Straight-Laced who never watches television...and we are downtown and we say "Oh, they say Norm, or George Wendt from "Cheers" is going to be the celebrity guest up on the stage." Our friend says, "What is Cheers?" We're all like, "C'mon, surely you've seen Cheers?" and he's like "No, I've never heard of it." All of a sudden, he gets near to the stage and points to Wendt and says "Hey, I know that guy" so we are like "You just told us you never even heard of Cheers" and he then says "That's Fatty and I went to school with him." We feel sorry for him then, and say "No, that's Norm" but before we can stop him he walks up near the stage and yells out "Hey, Fatty...how are you?" At this point, we see Wendt get up, walk over to him and start talking. Amazingly, they actually had gone to school together and knew each other quite well from their youth. Our friend at this point actually says to Wendt "Hey, what have you been doing with yourself" proving once again that fame a fickle mistress, since our buddy, has never seen the show. The upshot of the thing was that Wendt then asked to go out with our group after his gig finished for...what else, beers and thanks to our clueless friend we all had a really good time. The End!

Some things just have to remain unanswered, Dargo.

Never thought about Liz starting to resemble Divine as she aged. Thanks for that insider info from the John Waters' files, Dougie! Divine is missed...

Never thought about that one, but I do enjoy seeing the creepy crawly things in "Dracula" during the crypt scenes. Would never have known they are not native to EE, so thanks, Hoganman! Of course, there would probably be given a explanation just like they used to do in Superman comic books and the mail bag questions like: "Dear Mail Bag, In the last issue, DC #53, Superman was staring at Lois Lane's breasts on Page 9 and panel 4, and his glasses did not melt, nor did his X-ray vision burn a hole in her sweater, and why not? Johnny Craig" And the DC Mail Bag would answer with something like this: Dear Johnny, That was not really Superman in that panel art, since you missed that he had been hit by Red Kryptonite and a double from the Bizarro world had taken his place, not wearing glasses constructed from the windows in baby Superman's original spacecraft from the planet Krypton. Hope that helps, Johnny! Superman's Editor for the Smallville Mail Box"

I've seen the Captain Carey and yet remember absolutely nothing about it sadly.

That's an interesting theory. I wonder too, if a film concocted by a cinematography expert, like John Alton to be in color, which was unusual for him, would look in black and white. Thanks, CJ!

You didn't stick your chin out...just expressed a sensible explanation which would convince most normal people. I, on the other hand, am not normal! Like for example, when the nuns would talk about how horrid Doubting Thomas was in the bible, to question if someone was risen from the dead, I would always get up and say "But isn't he the only sane one of the Apostles, to find that circumstance not convincing unless he actually sees the person supposedly risen?" So thanks for actually checking it out and giving some possible credence to my belief that it does not sound like Greenstreet. Much appreciation, Ray!

Why thanks, Dargo for doing this spectacular research. Speaking for myself, I have always hated the name "Chuck" and actually had to stop dating a man named that, as I could not imagine myself saying his name in a lifetime commitment type of way. He turned out to be a multimillionaire so maybe my prejudice was misplaced?

There's something in me, that when I see a compelling film, makes me wonder if it is based on true life events. So then I go searching and often find information that confirms the inspiration was from such a situation. In the following case though, when I saw the movie "An American Tragedy" I was about twelve years old and it was my mother who told me about the real life case it was formulated from. One of the most interesting back stories for films I've seen is the basis for the movie, "A Place in the Sun" with Taylor and Clift and its earlier filmed version. Oddly enough, before I ever saw the movie from the early 1950's, I had freakishly seen the 1931 film, "An American Tragedy" with Phillips Holmes, Sylvia Sidney and Frances Dee. Taken of course from the eponymous novel by Theodore Dreiser, this was a hard hitting tale of ambition, desire and social mores, that was based on the life of Chester Gillette. The true life tragedy occurred in similar respects to the book, play and films. Chester, son of missionaries, left home in Montana to find his fortune at his uncle's factory in in New York, wherein he met a fellow worker named Grace Brown with whom he started keeping company. Upon finding that she was pregnant in 1906, it appears his plan was to take her to the Adirondack Mountain area and the Arrowhead Hotel, and then to cause her death by drowning at Big Moose Lake, or so the police believed due to many clues and circumstances after the fact. It was believed that Chester had clubbed Grace in the boat with a tennis racket and thrown her body overboard. When she was found later with injuries relevant to such a scenario, Gillette was brought to trial and prosecuted for murdering Grace for which he was found guilty and died in the electric chair in 1908. One divergence from the actual situations was that in the movie, like APITS, the male implies he was planning to drown his paramour [as played by Shelley Winters] but began to relent and yet the boat rocked and she still fell overboard to her death]. Perhaps this was to make the love affair between Clift and Taylor seem less odious, but basically the story in both film versions follows the true story quite accurately, but with a few minor changes. Dreiser seemed the perfect novelist to bring this tale to life, based on his own extramarital affairs and his basic philosophies of life like epitomized in the following quote: "You walk into a room, see a woman and something happens. It's chemical. What are you going to do about it? Though it was never exactly known what other woman was the instigation for Chester to kill his current girlfriend, some did identify a wealthy socialite named Harriet Benedict possibly as the motivating factor. Being that true life is often more fascinating than fiction, tales based on such scandals are often quite enticing. If you have one that you found interesting, please share. Surprisingly, there is a connection from this film in a Kevin Bacon kind of way, to another true life inspired film, since the father of Phillips Holmes was stage actor, Taylor Holmes, most famous to me as Ezra Grindle in the movie, "Nightmare Alley" and from that lies the parallel. If you can connect the dots and tell me what film I am talking about, I will bestow on you the Sine Qua Non Film Scholar of the Century award!

Not in the sense of war films, but movies that never received numerous tv viewings or revivals for some reason. For this category, I nominate the 1949 version of "The Great Gatsby" with Alan Ladd. Now after reading that book and having a professor who was obsessed with it and would talk about Owl Eyes and Daisy's voice sounding like money continually in class, he once said that he thought Alan Ladd was the most perfect choice to play Jay Gatsby of any actor. This movie I believe was never much shown on tv due to a Paramount packaging deal, that some here probably know more about than I, which precluded it being in the group exhibited. It also never seems to be on any revival circuits and I've only seen bits of it online, but from what I've seen I'd love to see more. I have to admit that I'm not sure I will be thrilled with the casting of Daisy, Tom, Nick, Myrtle or other famous characters but I do see Ladd as being the epitome of a Gatsby type. Name another movie that is famous but still mostly unseen due to whatever, that prohibits it being shown, that deserves better.

Snappy dialogue for sure and Bogart was always up to it, with that overlying commentary. Poor Elisha! My mother always said she felt sorry for him since he always looked worried, even as late as in the film "The House on Haunted Hill". To this day, I've always wondered if he was Junior, then just what did Elisha Cook, Senior look like? I think the time has come to find out, so excuse me while I go hunting him down online.

T'is true that speaking with venomous commentary does no one good and is in poor taste. But there is also the other side of criticism wherein people who are fine people, might take exception to someone hired for a position that they feel the person is unqualified for in essence. Perhaps some find it unkind to vent such remarks but then it is also unkind to not give a qualified person a position, by offering it to someone of lesser abilities. As I recall, that was the brunt of what constituted the sometimes seemingly less than complimentary posts about Tiffany, and was warranted I feel. If anyone would be able to tell if someone was knowledgeable enough about films to be commenting on them publically as a host, it is the majority of the crowd who hang out here at the TCM Forum. About 90% of such folks are major film buffs, know their facts without having to research anything and have the street credibility to be allowed to vent honest criticism about anything regarding moviedom, including tv hosts. If the host knows less than their audience, don't expect or demand simpering positivity, as that is just not understanding the motivation and trying to make it all seem unseemly. Without negativity, then all we would have in life is constant positivity which is why Rome fell, the inhabitants of Berlin liked the National Socialist party ideas without seeing the defects or how "Gunsmoke" stayed on tv for a few too many years. Happy talk may be good for tv weathercasts but not for getting quality in any circumstance by not allowing people to vent justly.

Sometimes I feel the same way, Jimmymac!

Don't sugarcoat it, Rayban!

I always enjoyed the story about the gang who hung out with John Barrymore, like Flynn and company, stealing his body after he died and setting it up somewhere to be regaled by the group, sitting comfortably in a chair, as they partied in the edifice. Can't remember the whole story, but I might have read it in that book "Goodnight, Sweet Prince" or "My Wicked, Wicked Ways" but not sure. I think Gene Fowler was there but not sure about friends like Fields and Decker or Carradine.

Thanks, Ray but I just don't buy it. One cannot just go on credits or the typical background story about such things. Let's use for example the case of the famous "Twilight Zone" episode, called "The Eye of the Beholder". According to the credits, noted Actors Studio graduate, Maxine Stuart, was chosen to do all the scenes as the bandaged Janet Tyler, since she had a notable throaty and very intense voice. At the end of the episode, as we all know, the bandages come off, and the "ugly" Janet is revealed to be the beauteous, Donna Douglas of Elly Mae fame on "The Beverly Hillbillies". The "ugly" [but to us very handsome guy from the home for the unsuitable and unsurgically possible victims of their unattractiveness] fellow comes in to tell Janet Tyler [who is now being played by Donna] that she will enjoy her new home and she says something like "Why are we like this?" or whatever, and of course it was thought that she was dubbed by Maxine, since their voices are not the least alike. But in actuality, Donna Douglas supposedly had been listening all during the filming and was able quite effectively to mimic the very unique voice of Maxine, and the production crew decided not to do the voiceover as a match, and left the voice of Douglas in. I always wait for this moment to listen and see if it really sounds right, and Donna does an excellent rendition, in fact much closer to Maxine's voice than the voice in the MF sounds like Greenstreet. Even this legendary story have some detractors but the version about Douglas has been confirmed by many, though maybe not Stuart. So, I rest my case...and won't stop searching till I find definitive proof, or maybe contact Gutman from beyond the grave!

You got it, Hoganman! Should we just believe all that we read in books and movie magazines or dig in when things don't seem to fit the bill? Movie mysteries are all around us, just waiting to be cracked open. Like for example, who is the Billy Gray listed in the credits of "Some Like It Hot" since it definitely does not seem to be the darling Bud Anderson of "Father Knows Best" fame. What exactly is stuck on the lamp in the bedroom scenes in "Dracula" with Helen Chandler. So many mysteries, so little time but I will uncover who was really the voice at the end of MF someday I'm sure. Thanks for your most sage post!

Hmmm...so the script says: "GUTMAN [hoarsely] It's a fake!" Are you implying, Sundance that it was father of actor, Lee Hoarsely, who played Matt Houston on tv? Oh wait, he spelled it "Horsley". Never mind...

Now that makes sense! I hate to brag but I have really great voice identification skills. I was the only one in my family who could tell on the phone, which twin was calling of my two cousins, who not even their mother could tell apart on the phone. And of course, I can usually tell celebrity voices on tv commercials plus I won 100 bucks once for betting a guy that the person singing the song, "Don't Let Go" was not Elvis, so hearing that Wilmer might have thrown his voice in the area of the falcon, makes a lot of sense. Thanks, Vautrin!

Though groggy, I still should be able to tell the difference between Nick and Dennis, but when I think of them back then I do think they sort of resembled each other with the blonde locks and all. Of course, Dennis lived a lot longer. Is the name Sundance, in honor of Redford, the film festival or Earl Holliman of the tv show, "Hotel de Paree", if you don't think it is too personal a question?

I have all three of those books too, and when written he really did have a good handle on what constituted a "cult" film, with things like "Deep End", "A Boy and His Dog" et cetera.