jarhfive
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Posts posted by jarhfive
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Fedya...Hello.
I hope these guys=>
paid Loew's/MGM a fee for making millions of dollars from THEIR idea.Rusty
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"Triple berry bread"? Anyone heard of seven bean soup? Yesterday for lunch, one of my co-workers brought something called seven bean soup. My co-worker advertised the soup as "no gas". Mmm...it was delicious. In fact it was so good, I had about a half liter of the stuff. About three o'clock in the afternoon, I discovered her advertisement was false. I need more enzymes. Anyone?
Rusty
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***Spoilers Ahead***
moira,
Thank you for the kudo...I'm choking up here. Okay, I'm better. Now, here is another submission. Similar to Jon's "prey for a day" movie marathon, I encountered two movies having the same plot, two consecutive days...a pure coincidence.
A quick description of the plot..."the report of my death is premature".
Sunday watched "The White Sister". Helen Hayes hears news of fianc? Clark Gable's death. Hayes responds to the news by marrying Jesus. Clark returns, finds Hayes, attempts to woo her away from the nunnery...Jesus wins. This movie was released in 1933...I think, the year the production code was adopted. The moment Helen Hayes was handed her trial habit...the rest of the movie was simply going through the motions.
Monday watched "Today We Live". Joan Crawford, Gary Cooper and Robert Young in a lover's triangle. Young engaged to marry Crawford for about twenty years. Latecomer Cooper enters Crawford's life. Crawford wants long term relationship with Cooper. Cooper responds by getting the hell out of there...signs up to fight in WWI. Cooper reported dead during flight training. Young hooks up with Crawford for long term relationship. Surprise...Cooper returns from oblivion. Cooper hooks up with the now married Crawford. Young has the decency to die and pave way for Cooper and Crawford to live happily ever after.
A note about "Today We Live". I caught Robert Osborne's after movie comments before I watched the movie. His note about the "composing a telegram" style of dialogue made it very difficult to watch this melodrama and NOT laugh. "Composing a telegram" style means removing half the pronouns and most of the conjunctions from the script.
A couple of other movies using the same recycled plot.
"Tomorrow Is Forever". Orson Welles returns from the dead to find wife Claudette Colbert married to George Brent. Welles mopes around Colbert's house a bunch and splits.
"Move Over, Darling". Doris Day, James Garner, Polly Bergen in a lover's triangle. Oh, throw in Chuck Conners and make it a lover's quadrangle. Played for laughs...this time Doris returns from the dead.
One more. The fairly recent Tom Hanks movie "Cast Away" from 2000. The plot, "Hanks returns from dead to find wife remarried and what do I do now" is a sub-plot. The real plot is the blatant Fed-Ex advertisement. I'm kidding, but this movie is really a story of Hanks survival as a castaway...spending only a few minutes of screen time with my recycled plot. Still, the "return from the dead" plot is available for viewing. So, I include here.
I don't know...can you think of any more "report...premature...my death" movies?
Rusty
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NZ,
Quote:
"#3 - Monster's Ball - successful hype gave Halle Berry her Best Actress Oscar (one that should have gone to Nicole Kidman for Moulin Rouge). The story is dull, boring and frankly, without much shock value"
I disagree with you regarding the shock value of "Monster's Ball". Specifically, one scene. The son's suicide scene is presented in such a matter of fact manner, it was very shocking to this viewer. I don't think I will ever forget those couple of minutes of "Monster's Ball"...and the way I felt after watching the character shoot himself in the head.
Rusty
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***Possible spoilers ahead***
This is a great topic.
I bet my next submission has the greatest density of recycled plots. Density defined as number of movies having my plot divided by period of time plot was in vogue. I am talking about the years, oh...about 1950 to early 1960s. My recycled plot is a "1950s sci-fi movie". I just looked up American International Pictures on IMDB. Between 1953 and 1963 the production company distributed 157 films. I estimate 25 percent of AIP pictures recycled the 1950's sci-fi story. My recycled plot was used so much, I think it is appropriate to detail the plot in a pseudo-mathematical manner, as follows:
Constant: Male protagonist, sturdy character and quick witted.
Variable: Source of competence at battling peril range from none discernable (Steve McQueen in "The Blob", 1958) to world class (Walter Pidgeon in "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea", 1961).
Constant: Female protagonist, sturdy character and loud pipes.
Variable: Source of competence at battling peril range from none (female protagonist's father victim of peril) to a lot (discovered peril during her scientific studies).
Constant: Female protagonist takes dim view of male protagonist.
Variable: Amount of time for female to "get with the program" and understand male protagonist should take charge of their perilous situation.
Constant: Male and female protagonist are thrown together as a team. First to fight the peril. Second as lovers.
Variable: None.
Constant: Peril is extra-ordinary.
Variable: Peril is any extraordinary thing the writers can think up--giant spiders, giant leeches, giant locust, giant reptiles. Plus...invaders from Mars, invaders from Venus, invaders from another galaxy, invaders from other dimensions, invaders from the future, invaders from the past.
Constant: Peril is sent to oblivion.
Variable: Means of dispatch range from ordinary (salt water in "Monolith Monsters") to unusual (liquid nitrogen in "The Blob") to ridiculous (you insert a movie title here).
I could detail more constants and variables, but you get the idea. Sorry about my sparse use of movie titles. My computer is having a bad time with the IMDB web site.
Rusty
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Sandy,
I have "The Oklahoma Kid" on disk. I am going to have to spin the DVD and check out Cagney's "enormous hat". Since experiencing Lois Lane's outsized headwear (the first Superman serial), I have been on a big hat kick...I might even call my hat thing an obsession. I must see this huge Cagney hat. Thank you for mentioning the hat.
Rusty
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Hello SPTO,
"Patton" is an interesting choice for favorite movie. Not my favorite movie, but I rank George C. Scott's performance as Patton my number one (number one equals best) acting job for the big screen. I won't detail my reasons.
SPTO...welcome to the TCM forums.
Rusty
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moira,
Good topic.
My first recycled plot first turns up in the early 1940s and is shelved for 40 years...making another appearance in the 1980s. I think the plot probably reflects something happening in American society during these two time periods. Specifically, move from the rat race of city life to the tranquility of the boondocks. Other plot elements follow:
*One married couple...children optional.
*One country house...usually close to collapsing.
*Hired local folk...may or may not be competent, but usually take married couple to the cleaners.
*Country neighbors and nearby townfolk...bumpkins are usually portrayed as eccentric, but smart. Smart like a fox.
*Move to country leads to a lot of marital dissension, but by end of movie marriage bond is stronger than at start of movie.
"George Washington Slept Here" from 1942 and "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" from 1948. I own the book, so I know "Mr. Blandings" is based on a novel written early 1940s. Forty years later, "The Money Pit" from 1986 and "Funny Farm" from 1988. All the movies are situation comedies. I think "Funny Farm" is probably the funniest of the bunch. I got a kick out of the scene in "Funny Farm"...wife decides to plant some stuff in front of the country house and digs up a human skeleton.
Oh yes, mid-way between the 1940s and 1980s movies was the similarly plotted television show..."Green Acres". Now, that bit of entertainment was funny.
My other recycled plot started, I think, with the movie "Airport" and was recycled for the next ten to fifteen years. Plot follows:
*An albumation of famous players. I made up the collective noun "albumation", because the newspaper advertisement for this type of movie usually had pictures of the famous players displayed like a photo album.
*Famous players divide up into two groups. Group one in some sort of peril. Group two responsible for rescue of group one.
*At end of movie, group one always has fewer famous players than start of movie.
*Probability of group one die off is always in the order...arrogant first, oldest second, not married third and jewish fourth. Children always survive. Single parents always survive.
*Producer Irwin Allen is usually involved with movie production.
*Nature of peril is usually a force of nature, but not always.
I am thinking of another recycled plot, but I need to collect some information. Leave for later.
Rusty
Message was edited by:
jarhfive
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Fred,
I don't know about your local news stations, but two (of four) local broadcasters in my area have a bottom of the screen scroll during the local news. The bottom screen scroll is one third advertiser's box. Are you telling me this is not requested by the station's advertiser, but the advertiser's box is the idea of the television station's marketing department? OH THE HUMANITY.
And another thing. The two local broadcast stations are owned by the same piece of s*** company. And, the company is not even local...the headquarters are located in another state. Owning more than one television station in the same geographical area should be illegal. And, I will tell you why. My sister in-law works for one of the television stations and she is pretty much tied down to her present job (she can't move for a lot of reasons). She is tied down to her present job, no matter what sort of crap the television station's owners dish out to their employees. Why? Because the number of VHF and UHF stations are limited to a handful for any geographical region...I guess, signal non-interference reasons. Maybe, digital only mandates for broadcast stations will change the number of local television stations...more likely, no changes.
Rusty
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Dewey1960 says,
Quote:
"You might want to check out the novel IN A LONELY PLACE by the great mystery writer Dorothy B. Hughes (she also wrote RIDE THE PINK HORSE and THE FALLEN SPARROW). The book has a very different ending than the film!"
I bought the novel "In A Lonely Place" a couple of years ago. I understand the plot of the novel is completely different than the movie. I understand the book is probably one of the first novels to use, as first person narrative, the thoughts of a serial killer. I also understand the book is compulsive reading. Now, why do I write "I understand"? Because my information is second hand. I bought the book, my wife read the book, my wife told me the "In A Lonely Place" story.
Right now, I am placing on my "things to do in 2007" list...read "In A Lonely Place". Dorothy Hughes a really good writer? I guess I will find out for myself...sometime in 2007.
Rusty
Message was edited by:
jarhfive
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The TCM December spot sort of reminds me of an "Old Navy"...maybe, a "Target" stores advertisement.
Fred...is the TCM ad similar to a 1950's commercial? If 1950's style is again popular...I want to see some dancing popcorn boxes and smiling soda cups on my television.
Let's all go to the movies...
Rusty
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I think advertising during the program is how advertisers "beat" the skip through functions of digital recorders. Of course, the DVRs are advertised by satellite and cable companies as a rental item..."add our DVR to your subscription and you can skip the commercials!". Meanwhile, the programs the satellite and cable companies present for your viewing are loaded up with commercials during the programs.
Same sort of deal as the incoming caller identification service sold by telephone companies. Meanwhile, the same telephone companies sell machines to make private the outgoing calls for telemarketing companies.
Ironic...yes?
By the way, one thing TCM usually does is present their programming using the same frame aspect ratio as the original movie. I thank TCM. Yesterday, I watched a bit of "Master and Commander" on FX channel. My God, the storm sequence was an incomprehensible blur of scenes (pan and scan presentation). How dare FX s*** all over one of the best movies made in the last twenty years.
I agree..."OH THE HUMANITY".
Rusty
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lynn,
Thank you for your detailed reply to my December 15th message. I have another couple of questions. Oh, boy...
First. I've been spot reading Neal Gabler's "An Empire Of Their Own" and I thought it was worth noting Gabler's note regarding the removal of single frames of film by Warner Brothers' editors. You know, to "pep up" scenes. Trademark Warner Brothers "rat-a-tat-tat", indeed. By the way, "spot reading" equals jumping around the pages of a book. My brain is too old to do anything linear...like read a book from first page to last page.
Second. I caught a few minutes of an "American Chopper" episode...the theme was, "let's all visit the Chopper production company". I think it was Piligan Productions(?). Several of the production company employees interviewed were editors. Based on who was interviewed at the production company, I think more than half the employees are editors. Not surprising, considering the hundreds of hours of filmed material reduced to a few minutes of broadcast material. My question. The world of professional editing, would the job of reality program editing be considered the salt mines of the profession? Please note, I think ANY job as a film editor would be...well, one helluva great job.
More questions. If a person works as a film editor, using a scale of one to ten. "Ten" employment is..."I'm the guy Steven Spielberg ALWAYS uses as his film editor". Is the job, "I chisel a mountain of material into an anthill of product and I'm told by my boss to go back and redo half of my work". Is the "mountain to anthill" type of work (film editor) a nine, five, three, or one on my "Spielberg editor" scale?
That is all.
Rusty
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Peter Holden as the cute, tow-headed tyke Donald Vance in the movie--"The Great Man Votes" (1939). Peter Holden's performance suggests he might have a successful child actor career as THE cute, tow-headed tyke. I think he was terrified (I guess, right out of the movie biz) by the dipso-maniacal John Barrymore. Emphasis on "maniacal".
Rusty
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Any Preston Sturges movie made during the time Preston owned "The Players" restaurant. First half of the 1940s. I hear Preston Sturges sometimes ended the shooting day at around noon and treated his fellow employees to meals and drinks from his restaurant.
Rusty
Message was edited by:
jarhfive
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I'm a little late reading this topic, but when I saw "George", I thought George Costanza...strange, huh?
I like George Clooney the actor, but what about Clooney the movie director? If you rent the DVD of director Clooney's movie "Confessions Of A Dangerous Mind", you can hear George talk about making the movie. George Clooney's remarks have a lot of film production detail. An interesting audio featurette of the DVD. Recommended.
And what about George Clooney's aunt...Rosemary Clooney, hmm? Boy, Rosemary could really belt out a song...yes, indeed. Love that Clooney style.
Rusty
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Mr. Helm,
This is the most difficult pick of all the challenge votes. The three submissions are excellent...a lot of thought went into creating each schedule.
The goal of "all Warner Brothers" for a week is...well, impossible to pull off. Yet, Filmlover produced a week of programming. I love Warner Brothers' movies. I watched "Naught But Nice" this morning and I said to myself (this morning), "I love Warner Brothers movies". I would watch most of Filmlover's week.
Wait...there's more.
Kyle's schedule is terrific...very clever. And I learned the meaning of Richie's middle name...is that bit of trivia true? Hey...TCM...send to my television a week of Kyle's movies...okay?
More...
My pick is the Sugarpuss schedule and...I will tell you why. Yes, I have watched many of the movies on his/her schedule. The Sugarpuss programming is Sugarpuss favorites. I like the idea of personal, "movies I like to see" programming...so, I pick Sugarpuss schedule.
Rusty
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Thanks all for responding to my questions message from December 11th.
I understand why no answers to my question(s) regarding amateur attempts at film editing. After all, when you can talk about "M" and "The Third Man" and "Wagon Master" and "Treasure Of The Sierra Madre" and hundreds of other really well produced films, why spend one second thinking about "Godmonster", or "Manos", or "Eegah",or any other crappy stuff.
Anyway. I thought of a couple of other questions since the 11th. Between the 11th and now, one of my questions has been asked and answered. Specifically, I wondered how a person gets a job as a film editor. The reason I wondered about employment (no...I am way too old to start another job!)...when I was a teenager I had thoughts of a career as a sound engineer. During my teen years, for a couple of years, I "hung out" at a recording studio located outside Denver. Well, I learned the primary path to a career as a sound engineer was (big surprise)...engineering school. A degree in electrical engineering. Bah. I took one semester of chemical engineering at a highly regarded engineering school (at that time, it was THE college major) and I discovered engineering was difficult. I mean, a REALLY DIFFICULT curriculum. So much for teen dreams...
Fred Dobbs explanation of the 180 degree rule was very good, but I had to draw a diagram of "person looks left...camera view more than 180 degrees...person appears to look right", to understand the concept. The 180 degree rule is a good example of work details not considered until a person actually DOES the thing.
Now, my first question. Okay. So, the editor has pieces of film, or digital video data files. The editor has pieces of sound media, or digital audio files. How are the pieces of media, or digital files assembled? Does the director/ assistant director/ assistant of the assistant director have a "work list"? The work list a sort of spreadsheet...run time versus piece of picture and sound? Does the director/ assistant director work in the editing lab (one on one) with the film editor? I guess what I am asking...what sort of communication between the filmmaker and the film editor?
"Editors" is a great topic, because 1) it is interesting and 2) "cutting" is so important to the quality of any movie or television production. I think a good example of the importance of editing is the modern "reality" television program. For instance, consider the show "American Chopper"...a pretty darn good program. Performing a little calculation--if three cameramen film for eight hours a day, five days a week, three weeks to create a forty minute episode...that makes 21600 minutes edited to 40 minutes. A 540 to 1 ratio of discarded versus kept footage! Obviously the "kept" moments are carefully picked in order to create the episode. The editors (has to be several editors to go through all the footage) must have very specific ideas regarding the look and feel of the final product. For a well produced television program, the editors must be very talented at choosing the very few moments (out of a mountain of source material) to successfully transmit to the audience the idea of the television program. I mean, just think about all the crappy reality programs polluting the television schedule. I very much believe, unsuccessful (crappy) reality shows are often...bad editing of not so bad subject matter.
That is all.
Rusty
Message was edited by:
jarhfive
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**Spoiler Ahead***
I saw this movie theatrical first run...with my mother. About two-thirds of the way through, I jokingly said to my mom, "they all did it". Thinking aloud about who done it while watching a whodunit was standard operating procedure in my family. Picking the correct perpetrator(s) was unusual. I'm afraid I ruined the movie for everyone sitting around us (the theater was pretty full...as I remember).
The Albert Finney/ Wendy Hiller q&a was great.
Rusty
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Jon,
Look for the RIP "3dimensional" short. Stick around for the end credit tribute to Busby Berkeley (Esther Williams?)...I saw it last night and laughed my a** off. Really, my a** is aol...uh, awol.
What to look for? Deco...deco...deco!
Rusty
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klondike,
Remember this scene from "In This Our Life"?
Roy (Olivia DeHavilland) asks Parry (Ernest Anderson) what he wants to do with his life. The question comes after Roy notices Parry reading a law book. Parry responds to Roy's question with a heartfelt and sincere monologue about his dream to go to law school and make a better life for himself and his family. The moment Parry starts talking we see Roy get this far away look on her face. Oh, is Roy concentrating on what Parry has to say? Is Roy thinking, "law school...and law profession...what a fine goal for a young man..."? I don't think so. After Roy finishes his speech, Roy responds by saying something like, "oh...isn't that nice" and...she drifts out of the store. Damn, Roy was not listening to Parry...at all! Jeez...
Rusty
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Oh, this thread is great. I was planning on posting my message as a topic and hope an experienced editor might look at and answer my questions. This is the place to ask...I know at least one professional editor looks at this thread. So, here goes...
I just finished watching "Godmonster Of Indian Flats". Okay, I paid no attention to Netflix reviewers warning me, "not even worth kitsch value...the title of the movie is the one worthwhile thing about this movie...don't bother renting...really, don't bother renting this movie". Oh no, I had to find out for myself "Godmonster" is really, really bad...amateurish in every way. Now, crude production never automatically cancels my interest in a movie, but "Godmonster" is crude, incomprehensible and annoying. Enough about "Godmonster", the movie. Now, my question about something I noticed in the movie "Godmonster".
One of the hallmarks of poor production appears to be non-sequiter editing. For instance, what happens every few minutes in "Godmonster" are scenes spliced together with no thought of comprehensible transition from scene to scene. For instance, a scene of people at a carnival will run for a few minutes and...suddenly, the scene is some scientist talking into a dictaphone and the scientist scene picks up in the middle of a sentence. "Huh?...what happened?" Watching low budget movies, I have noticed a lot of..."old scene switch to new scene right in the middle of new scene action". Incompetent editing and lack of ability to maintain continuity records are two obvious reasons for non-sequiter editing. I am wondering, do filmmakers have dramatic composition in mind when non-sequiter film editing is performed? Maybe, keep the audience on the edge of their seats using jarring scene changes? Thinking about film editing (not using digital techniques), is splicing two pieces of film together so that one scene "fits" with the next scene difficult for the inexperienced filmmaker?
One more question...a technical question. In the old days, before digital techniques, how was sound continued from one strip of film to the next strip of film? For example, sound in one scene is heard in the next scene...often, as a segue from scene to scene. Obviously two different pieces of film are spliced together, but the soundtrack (runs along the edge of the film...right?) spans the film cut. Is the soundtrack edited separate from the visual frames...sound and picture combined after cutting?
That is all.
Rusty
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Interesting discussion in this thread regarding, "how could Germans, Austrians, Czechs, Poles, etcetera allow the death camps to exist...and deny knowledge of same decades after the end of World War II?"
"Shoah", a documentary from 1985, includes interviews with people living near Nazi concentration camps. "Shoah" is a 500 minute documentary (8 and 1/2 hours) and includes interviews with surviving victims, witnesses, participants and bystanders of the Holocaust. The part of "Shoah" I remember was the interviews with bystanders...those people who lived near concentration camps while the Holocaust was taking place and old enough to remember the Holocaust. The interviews of bystanders part of "Shoah" takes place in Poland.
When first questioned, the interviews with people living near concentration camps claim no knowledge of mass murder in the nearby camps. The filmmaker spent much time pressing the issue of, "what did you know, what did you not know" with interview subjects. I remember one fellow in particular...a farmer living next to a road where thousands of people travelled on their way to a nearby death camp. At first, the farmer claims ignorance of the fate of all those thousands of people. The interviewer persists with his questioning and, after a few minutes, the farmer "comes clean". He passes his right hand across his throat, silently indicating...yes, I knew they were on their way to their deaths. Interesting he could not say, "yes, I knew...", even four decades after the events.
"Shoah" is available as four DVDs and is worth finding and watching.
Rusty
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Last night, watching a broadcast of "Detour" (directed by Edgar Ulmer) triggered a memory of a tiny film moment in another Ulmer movie--"Tomorrow We Live". TCM broadcast the movie a couple of years ago and the whole movie was pretty funny (not intented to be a comedy).
Here is the set-up for my tiny moment. Ricardo Cortez is a gangster nicknamed "The Ghost" because he survived so many bullet wounds. Cortez's character may be a survivor, but he is the most ineffectual big time gangster I have ever witnessed in the movies. Mr. Ghost spends much of the movie warning other characters, "do that again and you will be sorry!". Ghost threats...pretty much empty threats. Anyway, his number one henchman, Shorty, is played by a guy named Rex Lease. Rex is physically huge...he has the look and moves of a professional wrestler. Shorty is sort of weird...hard to describe the way Shorty is presented, but here is my tiny example. Shorty enters the office of his boss, "The Ghost". Shorty is leading one of the other characters into the office. Entering through the office door, Shorty swings his arm in a wide arc (something like a game show hostess displaying prizes) and in an overly dramatic voice announces, "his nibs". "His nibs" follows Shorty into Ghost office.
I know, does not sound like much of anything...in context, it was a very funny moment.
Rusty
Recycling
in Hot Topics
Posted
Fedya,
Continuing my message here, because text and pictures don't mix very well.
Here is a Van Heflin story.
Van Heflin was born someplace in Oklahoma. My mother lives a few miles outside Oklahoma City. I visit her about six times a year. My mother loves classic movies and has watched hundreds of movies. In fact, only one time have I mentioned a movie I had seen she could not remember watching--"Arsene Lupin". Otherwise, she knows 'em all. When I visit her, the conversation always includes talk about classic movies. Well, more than half the time (during these old movie conversations) mom will mention "Van Heflin". And every time...EVERY TIME...I tell you...my mom will say, "Van Heflin...you know, Van Heflin is from Oklahoma". Now, my reply could be...I roll my eyes and say, "yes...mom...I...know...Van...Heflin...was...from...Oklahoma". And reply to mom in a "so tired" tone of voice. But no, I don't reply to my mom's, "Van Heflin...born in Oklahoma" as if I had heard that bit of info a thousand times. I'm nice. I reply, "really...mom, tell me more". After all, she is my mother...
My wife has experienced the same Van Heflin conversation about a hundred times. So, if we are watching TCM and Van Heflin appears on our television screen, we will (in unison) say out loud, "you know...I hear Van Heflin is from Oklahoma". The recent TCM Van Heflin day? We said out loud (in unison), "you know, I hear Van Heflin is from Oklahoma" about fifty times. After all, we are crazy...
Rusty