daddysprimadonna

> > "Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. > It's what the fellow said - in Italy for 30 years > under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, > and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, > Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In > Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 > years of democracy and peace, and what did that > produce? The cuckoo clock." from The Third Man. it's > really long but it makes you think and it's kind of > funny. > I love that one,I'll have to memorise it.

LOL In response to the original question,the silent era(Lillian Gish,a true artist-anyone who lets their hair and hand trail in sub-freezing water for endless time while actually floating on an ice floe hoping the lead actor actually makes it to her before the ice goes over the waterfall-that's peerless dedication. She was the most dedicated,but many artists of that era performed dangerous duties for the sake of the picture,and we're talking the early days of movies here,before the glory and riches). Second,the pre-Code era-those absolutely sophisticated pictures with Norma Shearer-to paraphrase,"a new kind of woman in a new kind of film",hehe.(What she actually said in "A Free Soul" to Clark Gable was "a new kind of man in a new kind of world"). And "The Divorcee"-she was breathtaking,as was the plot-she calculatingly "balances the account" with her husband when he cheats on her,and the scene of her coming home in the taxi with Robert Montgomery before it happens-the look on her face-with her eyelids half-lowered and that hat/scarf wickedly tilted across her brow-you knew she meant business. There'll never be movies like that again.

> would still like to see a regular feature for > TRANSITION MOVIES.... they get the LEAST air time on > TCM..... 1927-1932 remains a fascinating period for > Hollywood films with all kinds of new stars, silents > stars talking, musicals, hybrid silents with talking > sequences, etc. Osborne could do a neat bio on the > early talkie stars and delve into talkie/transition > history.... I TOTALLY agree with that,would love to see more from that era,and pre-Codes(that kind of overlaps,doesn't it). And more Norma Shearer!

I'm looking forward to seeing this. I have to admit,I'll be more interested in seeing how the "glamor treatment" was done for the stars,than the special effects-type make-up---aging,monsters,and all. I want to know what kind of make-up they used and how they used it back in those days to make the women look so perfect.I want to know about some of the ways they dealt with any "flaws"(Joan Crawford's freckles,Norma Shearer's eyes,that kind of thing) the stars had when the make-up people were getting them "ready for their close-ups":) I hope they show some of that. I remember reading that Norma Shearer used a make-up for the camera called "Silver Stone 1" by Max Factor,that was the lightest,and that it had bits of silver in it to make her complexion appear more porcelain and luminous on film.I read that it was in her contract that no one appearing in a picture with her was allowed to use any make-up shade within so many shades of hers,so that someone said once(it's been variously attributed to Mrs Patrick Campell,Joan Crawford,and others) "here's Norma and her cast of Ethiopians",LOL. But she certainly looked lovely in her movies.

I read somewhere that "Hollywood Revue of 1929" is on laser disc,but darned if I can find it,and I've scoured the Internet. I love Norma Shearer,and would like to own it especially for the balcony scene from "Romeo and Juliet" that she does with John Gilbert,first as written,and then in a jazz-age slang version. I've seen clips from this film,but never the whole thing,and I'd also love to see the dance and song that flapper-era Joan Crawford does. Joan Crawford-singing???!!! LOL!

Nostalgia Family Video and its affiliated site,Hollywood's Attic,has some gems,including old TV series and obscure early talkies and silents.

The only thing that I've ever actually seen Laura LaPlante is "The King Of Jazz", the early talkie revue featuring Paul Whiteman. I thought she was great in it,especially a number called "My Bridal Veil" or something like that(I need to watch that tape again,it's just great-when is someone going to come out with "Hollywood Revue of 1929" on VHS or DVD? I just bought "Paramount on Parade"-can't wait to see it!)

I've noticed that Dolores del Rio wears a lounging pajama outfit in "Flying Down To Rio" that a very young Betty Grable later wears in the "Let's Knock Knees" number from "The Gay Divorcee".

I did think that some of the post-Code,like twin beds for married people,etc,were silly. But you don't see people feeling like they need to show the actors going to the bathroom in the name of "realism" in most films-now they do have to go sometime,don't they? The characters in the movie? Have to go to the bathroom? But most directors seem to realise that we'll understand that without it being shown in graphic detail. So a lot of the sex shown in movies,just didn't need to be there. It's just prurience. That's one reason why today's actresses will never have the glamor of the great stars of the silver screen-no mystery. I guess it's not possible in today's world,we don't have the innocence anymore to believe these are glamorous beings from another planet. We know better now. Thanks a lot,"Confidential" and "Enquirer",et al!

Exactly. Anyone who's old enough to get,will,and if they don't,maybe they shouldn't. Don't get me wrong-I love the pre-Codes,and they were pretty racy-towards the end,right before the Code was really enforced,there was even some screen nudity(Jane swimming with Tarzan is one example). But they knew they never needed to show people "having at it" for adults to know what happened.It takes a lot more ingenuity and imagination to show what kind of relationship people had-romantic,gangster's moll,etc-without showing them having sex.And really,once you've seen two people having sex,you've seen it.If that's all you're interested in seeing,there's a whole industry geared towards it.

I have a commercial VHS copy of "A Free Soul" and "The Divorcee" (forget when/where I got them,but have had them for years),but would love to have DVD copies. I'm desperately seeking "Trial of Mary Dugan", "Strangers May Kiss",and "Let Us Be Gay"-also the silent where she plays a dual role(forget the title right now). I'd also love to find,or even see on TCM, "Hollywood Revue of 1929".So many great films to see-so little access!

Hellooooo Antar!(just remembering a scene from the revue film "King of Jazz",the part with skit about the drunken man and the goldfish,where he says "hellooooo Ella! hellooooo Emma!" LOL) What've you been up to? I've missed these boards soooo much,I couldn't get logged in for the longest! Still watching TCM here,and still crossing my fingers that some day they'll break out some new films,in particular some more early Norma Shearer movies. Have you seen stellabluegirl? "Hey Steee---llllaaaaaaaa!" LOL! Love your new username-I just didn't have any imagination last night when signing up for the new boards,and couldn't get my old name back-I want it back;(

I love Intoloerance,I don't think any modern film maker has ever touched it for sheer magnitude and spectacle-Cecil B de Mille came close. And the tying together of four different stories,and the inter-cutting,was brilliant. Griffith was more prescient than he even knew to make this film-add mine to the opinion that it's disgusting that his name was removed from the Lifetime Achievement Award-to ignore this man's contributions to the science and art of film-making,as the man who nursed cinema from one and two reel nickolodeon novelties to many-reel full-fledged story-telling,using eye-views that weren't derivative of theater,is just stupid and wrong.

I'm glad that I found a copy of BOAN to buy many years ago,otherwise I have a feeling that I would never have had a chance to see this legendary piece of cinema history,and I would have had a huge piece missing from my understanding of the evolution of film technique.

dredagain,I agree with your whole post,and I don't see how singling out BOAN for censorship,and as you say,filtering it through today's social mores,instead of on its film merits,is any different than doing the same to contemporary movies-people are always defending sex,nudity,or violence in today's movies because of artistic freedom and the right to tell the story-and they have a point.If I don't like it,I don't have to watch it(and I don't). BOAN was a ground-breaking film on its techinical merits,and Griffith was a ground-breaking director-it's the height of hypocrisy to try to tell the history of film-making while ignoring his contributions-strictly on their merits as film history. It really compares to the days of the Soviet Union when history was rewritten to support the Stalinist POV-otherwise known as revisionism.

lzcutter,in a strange way I agree with both you and the original poster. Today's stars,especially the women(heck,as a previous poster stated,I can't even keep track of the guys-they're too much of a muchness) don't have the individuality and allure and glamor that the women of Hollywood's Golden Era had,but it's precisely BECAUSE those women WEREN'T natural,or at least ever publicly seen as such.Take,for instance,my favorite lady Norma Shearer-she had eyes that were too small(not in real life,just for the camera,especially when compared to the standard ideal of the time as exemplified by Gloria Swanson,Joan Crawford,etc-now we're talking what the camera loves,not what looks good in plain old daylight),one had a cast,she had thick ankles and her legs were NOT her ticket to fame.She did have beautiful poreless fine skin,thick chestnut hair,a peerlessly flat tummy,and a perfectly patrician profile. As an actress,she knew her stock-in-trade-part of that being her physical assets.She knew how to play up the good ones,and camoflauge the bad ones. To look as beautiful as she did on camera,all that took time and thought-she was known as a perfectionist when it came to lighting,placement,etc. She knew her lines-AND the cameraman's job too,LOL. Neither she nor MGM would have ever let her be seen for broad public consumption in anything less than a flattering setting. As with all the stars of that day,I suppose that's what gave them their mystique,and their constant perfection.I personally prefer their approach to today's.

At any rate,it takes more imagination and ingenuity and wit to imply the sex,than to just show it. And it works out better in the end that way,because the adults will be savvy enough to get it,and the kids could still watch and enjoy the movie on its face,and have the implied sex still be over their heads,where it should be at their ages(well then again,maybe not,these days-LOL-they'd probably "get it" before their parents did...on second thought,no LOL,it's actually kind of sad-nothing left to discover-no period of innocence and expectation-no romance...)

Now why don't they bother with acquiring a fresh batch of films??? LOL! (the poster formerly known as daddysprimadonna-has anyone seen Antar or stellabluegirl?)

I'd like to have a dress like the gorgeous white bias-cut silk negligee she wore in "Riptide". Designer Adrian called them "Norma's Nightgowns" because she had a different one for every movie in that time,to showcase her flat tummy and great shoulders.She kept in shape by swimming-on screen,she came across as a "boudoir girl', but she was pretty athletic in real life.Her legs weren't her best feature-as she herself said to photographer George Hurrell when he took the gorgeous pictures of her that she showed to Thalberg in order to convince him that she was glamorous enough to play the lead in 'The Divorcee"-Thalberg was her husband,and he needed convincing???!!!-but she had beautiful luminous skin and a a perfect profile. Maybe the swimming was why she still had firm arms in her later years.

NARS makes a "Jungle Red" polish, I know,because I searched everywhere till I found one,hehe. I adore Norma Shearer,she's my absolute favorite,and I pray that someday soon TCM will show "Let Us Be Gay", "Strangers May Kiss", "The Trial of Mary Dugan", and some of her silents other than "He Who Gets Slapped" and "Student Prince Of Old Heidelberg". I've read both the Norma Shearer biographies,and they were good-the Gavin Lambert seems better to me. The Quirk one seems a little more tabloid-ish. I think she got lost in the shuffle for a while because for a time,society was into "deconstructing" legends and heroes,a la "Mommie Dearest"(that spiteful book,which I recently read was probably begun BEFORE Joan died,and may have been the reason she left X out of her will),and Norma didn't give them much in the way of scandal off-screen. Her pre-Codes weren't seen much,so people didn't realise what a trailblazer she was as a "new woman". It's a shame,but at least her private life post-Hollywood seems to have been happy,which is more than can be said for a lot of stars when the parade's gone by.

I've wondered about that also. Maybe because he wanted his leading ladies to quickly establish the fact that they were cool and aloof,and the grey suit was an image shortcut to doing so?

Thanks Antar and bggalaxy I just couldn't log in to save my life for the longest time,I don't know what the problem was. Glad to be back,and this is a great topic I'd love to see "Our Dancing Mothers" on TCM! I love the flapper silents! "Broken Blossoms" and "Way Down East" with Lillian Gish are four-hanky(at least!) movies,also,and one that TCM showed recently, "The White Sister" with Helen Hayes,the one where she thinks her fiance has been killed in WWI and takes the veil, and must remain true to her vows when it comes to pass that he survived. Can you imagine anyone these days taking the veil,much less remaining true to their vows without copping excuses as to why they should they be allowed to break them? And it was cool that her fiance understood and respected the strength and seriousness of her vows. PS Please forgive any incoherency that I may post, I'm on a new pain med for back and I feel all woozy,hehe

And "Our Dancing Mothers". Alice Joyce(what a beautiful woman she was!)plays the neglected wife and mother,Clara Bow plays the spoiled flapper daughter,I forget who plays the husband.They are always going out and leaving her alone,and taking it for granted that she's there for them,and likes to stay home and be an old-fashioned homebody,which she would if they wouldn't neglect her and use her. She finally has enough of their selfishness and neglect and walks out. The scenes of her at home alone patiently waiting for a little of their time while they're out whooping it up are so sad,and I want to cheer for her when she finally sees that they'll never change and decides to live her life. Even then they're still more concerned about themselves(but what about me mother? I'm still just a girl and I need you) than they are about her.

Also, "So Proudly We Hail"-the one with Claudette Colbert, Veronica Lake,Paulette Goddard,etc,as nurses at Corrigedor and Bataan. When the Japanese overrun the area,Veronica Lake sacrifices herself so that the other nurses can escape.

"Immortal Beloved"-hands down my favorite movie that always makes me cry,when Beethoven's secretary reads the "lost" letter to Joanna after Beethoven's death and she realises that the wires got crossed all those years ago and Beethoven was trying to get to her at their rendevous spot but the coach wheel broke and he was late,and she thought he wasn't coming,and so she left,and when he arrived he thought she just got tired of waiting and left.The anguish on her face while she's reading the letter is heart wrenching. He hated her after that,and she married his brother. He was awful to her all his life after that,and after he dies and the secretary got the letter and gave it to her and she read it,it was so sad because she realised what had happened and all those wasted years and all that pointless hatred. The music from the movie is of course wonderful-it's one of my all-time favorite favorite movies and every time I watch it my heart breaks for them both and I cry buckets.Isabella Rossilini(sp) is great in it too. Ever time I see it I wish I could go back and throttle that stupid old woman innkeeper for putting the letter under the napkin on the tray so that Joanna didn't see it.