daddysprimadonna

For the record, I LOVE her. Me too, and I bet lots of people do. I was a bit surprised to read that at a festival of her films that was recently held in, I think San Francisco, it was noted that a group of men regularly sat in the front seats and stared intensely at Norma in her roles. I kind of didn't expect that she would appeal to the modern masculine aesthetic for women. She's certainly very feminine without being a drip about it, the kind of woman you could appreciate for her femininity but also know that she'd hold her own with the guys. She seemed independent enough that she would have her own life and career and not sufficate a guy, but would never be the type to say "men, who needs 'em?". I would've thought that men these days would appreciate those aspects of Norma, if they hung around long enough to learn of them. I just didn't think that many younger men would hang around that long-she's undeniably beautiful, even though she worked magic to achieve the illusion of perfection, but she's nowhere near the image of the modern sensibility of "sexiness" ( long blond hair, tan, overly pouty mouth, that unsubtle kind of sexiness-you know what I mean). She's much more elegant than that. But she also looked quite at home in "sports casual". Norma is just such a paradox, you never quite figure her out. That must be a lot of the fun and appeal of her.

Why can I not access My Watches? Everytime I click on the link for them, the connection times out and won't let me access them. It only happens for that page, and it was working just fine last night. Also, the "Search" function isn't allowing me to adjust the date for the searches. The menu box won't drop down when I click on it. Finally, what happened to the "Preview" option? I often need to my preview my posts to be sure that I correctly used symbols and things for bolding, italics, posting an image, etc. Thanks for your replies! Melanie

Would y'all please excuse me for noting, off-topic, that there seems to have been a plethora of actresses in the silent days named "Mae"? It must've been the "Tiffany" or "Amber" of its day

I knew what you meant, sorry my reply was unclear She was indeed a huge star in her day, but sadly, until recently, has either been unremembered, or wrongly remembered. I don't really understand why this is so. My theory is that her personal life was happy and stable enough for the most part, that she wasn't as concerned with a "legacy" as some other stars and therefore never took strenuous steps to cement it.

"Immortal Beloved" about Beethoven. It takes a lot to make me cry at a movie, and I never fail to cry at the crossed wires that ruined lives in this one. It's based on an actual letter written by Beethoven, but my understanding is that in reality, it's speculative as to whom it's written to. The scenario in the film is a realistic possibility based on his real life. If it's the true one, it's sad beyond belief.

I agree. I certainly wouldn't want a fluffy uninformative "fangurl" piece about Norma. I've read the two excellent biographies about her, and she led quite an interesting life, both pre-stardom and during, for one who was so relatively untouched by scandal. It's my understanding from some short articles I've read (sorry, no links, just my memory) that there is some renewed interest in Norma amongst classic film lovers. I don't know how much this applies to the public at large, but I'd say that I'm not a particularly educated "insider" lover of classic film, and she's been my favorite star for some years now, even before the revival of her career. I'd be interested in the perspective of someone with a larger view of this, as to whether or not interest in her is widespread enough to merit a documentary. Surely if Thalberg did, Norma would? How many other than core classic film fans could've been interested in Irving Thalberg? Or was the "angle" on him a bit different? After all, she's not Mae Busch or something (no disrespect intended to Mae Busch or her fans! )

Well then help me pester TCM to put one forward , LOL PS-I love documentaries too! Message was edited by:Melanie

Thanks I almost seem to vaguely remember the Lillian Gish one, but I may be somehow confusing it with a large book called "The Movies, Mr Griffith, And Me". I can't believe that I wouldn't remember that, as I've always adored the ethereal Miss Gish. (Though she must've been sturdier than she appeared, from the accounts of the filming of "Way Down East".) I bet the PBS website would have it (I hope? ) I have both of the Dietrich and both of the Garbo documentaries taped. They were all excellent! I learned a lot of things about Marlene Dietrich to admire and respect as a human, not only as an actress. She undertook some great risks and discomforts in WWII for her adopted home (the US) and the Allies. That could not have been easy, as a German with immediate family still there. I have a new respect for her as a person since seeing that documentary. Message was edited by: Melanie

There must not be one, or I have to think that TCM would've shown it by now. (BTW, I certainly agree that we don't get to see enough of the lovely Norma ) I'm actually glad that hasn't been made about already, in past years. I don't think it would've done her justice, because it's only in recent years that she's really begun to be appreciated and respected again, and not seen only as "Mary Haines" from "The Women". Her daring pre-Codes are being seen again, and it's just being understood again what a refreshing and unique, not to mention deserving, actress she was. For too long she was slandered with the canard that she got by with being Thalberg's wife and playing saintly housewives. What a complete misapprehension that is of her on-screen persona for most of her career, and what an injustice if a documentary had been made based on it! I wish that TCM or someone would do one about her that gives her the credit she deserves.I think that she could step into many contemporary roles without missing a beat, while outclassing them all in the process.

How about a documentary about Norma Shearer? It's not as though we're awash in information-books, etc-about her. There seem to only be a couple, as far as I know. She was such an important and legendary star in her day, plus the tie-in to the movers and shakers behind MGM--Thalberg and all. I can't believe she doesn't deserve her own documentary if Thalberg did. She certainly is as intriguing and relevant a part of Hollywood history as Garbo, Crawford, or Dietrich. She did after all set the trend in the Thirties for the liberated complicated woman. And while I'm asking for a favor-please show the Mary Pickford one again! Does anyone know if there is a Lillian Gish documentary out? There should be. She was one of the first Hollywood artistes and had a long career. Gloria Swanson would be a fascinating subject also.

I have most of my favorites taped, at least the ones not yet released on DVD (someday I'll learn to work my DVD recorder, VHS-to-DVD converter). The ones I don't yet have, I haven't ever seen on TCM (such as Norma Shearer's "Trial Of Mary Dugan", Crawford's "Letty Lynton"). The couple of times TCM has shown "Chance At Heaven", the screening went screwy and messed up my tape, darn it!! Even so, I still watch some of them on TCM when they're shown, such as "Gone With The Wind", Norma Shearer movies, early Joan Crawfords( Dancing Daughters, etc), and pre-Code specials such as "Complicated Women", even though I have them all. It's an event to me watch them with other viewers and hear Mr Osborne's take on the movies, and discuss them here (though I haven't watched much TCM in ages, due to my disgust at the turn in the movies shown). I watched "Student Prince" Sunday night even though I have it just because it's such a treat to hear the trivia about the movie, and share the movie with other viewers. And "Gone With The Wind" on TCM is an event for me, no matter how many special DVD sets I have. I just have to watch it with other fans.

I enjoyed watching that little short, and "The Student Prince Of Old Heidelburg" which followed. I was able to pretend for a short while that it was the old TCM.

So, Fred, I'm curious, in your opinion, which of the video versions of GWTW do you think comes closest to what the movie looked like in theater screens in 1939? I wonder about that too Very interesting and informative posts, everyone-makes me realise the difference between a fan (me, LOL) and an aficianado!

Academy ratio? What is that? I am lost when y'all start talking technical movie talk, LOL, but that one sounds interesting!

Nope, not going to watch, haven't seen any awards shows in years. I never really did watch, just random glimpses while surfing around, but never just intentionally set out to watch. Formerly, it was just that I wasn't usually very interested, now it's both that and that I wouldn't watch on principle. Awards shows, for my taste, have become cheapened anyway, thanks to MTV awards, VHI awards, etc. They're meaningless. But I wouldn't be interested anyway, all the movies I care about or watch (with maybe 11 exceptions) were all made well before my time.

True, subtlety in most things is an under-rated and unappreciated quality these days, and integrity is often considered a weakness, if not down-right foolishness. People are so afraid of others mistaking "kindness for weakness"-the ultimate sin nowadays is to be considered weak, not to be considered unkind.

I also believe that Melanie did know how Scarlett and Ashley felt about each other, but she was wise enough to know that it would never be a threat to her, and that it wasn't really love on either of their parts. She knew that for many reasons Ashley would never leave her(one reason being that she knew that he truly loved her better than he knew), and she was generous in realising just what Scarlett had really done for her, and that Scarlett would never be able to take Ashley, judging from the help(if grudging) that Scarlett always gave to her. Scarlett had a stronger sense of duty than she herself realised. Also, I think that she subconsciously operated on the principle "keep your friends close, and your enemies closer", although she didn't consider Scarlett either an enemy or a threat. I think that Melanie knew better than either Scarlett or Ashley that Ashley really loved her, and that Scarlett's and Ashley's feelings for each other were based on lust. She certainly recognised that Rhett loved Scarlett before anyone else did.

Thanks lzcutter, and you even anticipated my question-what print are we seeing?-before I asked I have a DVD set of GWTW, but it's not the special set-I need to get that one. Which do you consider the truest to the original release(not to David Selznick's later ideas, but to the original release)? My goodness, you are knowledgeable on the film technology! And now that you mention it, I do remember your post from last year on this.

Of course, those principles had never gone very deep with Scarlett in the first place. She understood the forms well enough, but she had never understood the substance behind the forms of ladylike behavior. Rhett had her number right from the start-the war simply brought out Scarlett's qualities more than would have been even remotely acceptable before the war. Not that I'm denigrating Scarlett, but it always seems to me that Melanie took the higher, if harder, road. Melanie and Ashley (and Rhett, for that matter) were all insightful enough to realise just what was being lost (in melanie's case, would be lost, if the women didn't hold the line). They all dealt with that fact in different ways, but they all could see it. Scarlett really couldn't, she never realised that the glamor and graciousness of their former life was built on more than just style. She was kind of plebeian in that sense-the book makes it more clear, the difference between Gerald O'Hara, and Scarlett, and the southern aristocrats, such as her mother Ellen, and the Hamiltons and Wilkses.

Hi Larry Exactly-the book makes it even more clear that others, especially after the war, turned to Melanie because they recognised both her integrity and her humanity. Survival is difficult enough even when you jettison your ideals and principles, it's even more difficult when you don't. Melanie never compromised, but she always had the milk of human kindness to temper her uncompromising principles. Even Scarlett, in one of her introspective moments, realised that she regretted having compromised on many things, and that she wasn't the great lady, the true lady, that her mother had been. Melanie stood firm.

I love the music in this movie! I especially love the harp and organ in the intermission music, and the old songs-I love "Beautiful Dreamer" and "Swanee River". The music is so gentle and evocative.

I do think that the color filming in GWTW is a marvel, especially when compared to the garishness of some Technicolor films done in the Fifties. (I like that garishness in a couple of them, it "suits", but not in all of them). I wonder if GWTW was originally filmed this way, or if the print has faded? It doesn't seem like a mere faded version, the color is still vibrant, but it's got light and shade, instead of just full-on in-your-face color. I love the olive-green and brown tones in some of the scenes.

Thank you, and you can call me Melanie, it's really my name, and DPD is a mouthful (So you se, I have a stake in seeing that the GWTW Melanie gets her just due, LOL-I was named for her by my daddy). I am in no wise well-versed in film technology, but lzcutter is, and I also would be interested in the answers to your questions. I can say, that in my opinion, GWTW is the kind of epic film that really needed to be filmed in color. I don't feel that way about just any movie-Casablanca is quite suited to B&W, and I love B&W films. But GWTW really needed to be filmed in color, in my opinion, and I am grateful that it was, however it came to pass! Message was edited by: me (dang nabbit again!) daddysprimadonna

She was undoubtedly a force to be reckoned with in all her scenes One of my most favorite "debates" re: GWTW is the question of Melanie Hamilton Wilkes. So many people dismiss her as being weak compared to Scarlett, and I love to argue that she had a deep and quiet courage, a consistent unyielding inner strength, that Scarlett lacked. It always rather surprises me that people can watch this movie (or read the book) and come away with the impression that Melanie was weak. Her style of courage was subtlety, not bravado, but it was certainly present. Message was edited by: spelling, of course,LOL daddysprimadonna

I think she's wonderful as Mammy, but she doesn't quite steal the movie, to me. But it certainly woudn't be the GWTW I love without her in it