lzcutter

"The Lion of MGM" by Scott Eyman about L.B. Mayer. Be prepared to have myths shattered. "Print the Legend" also by Scott Eyman on the life and films of John Ford. "Get Happy" by Gerald Clarke on the life of Judy Garland "Original Story" by Arthur Laurents

Fred, Thanks for the info. I swear I only heard one voice over (not by Orson Welles) over the Overture. I listened to the entire Prelude music thinking there might a voice over there but alas, no luck, then came the Overture music. By the time the movie started, I was ready to bail. It's a fun film with a lot of over-the-top moments but coming after the great, but very different in tone, Ox-Bow Incident, I couldn't switch gears that fast this evening. BTW, what happened to our cheat sheet on the side for replying? It was here earlier today.

I know Robert Osborne said that it was Orson Welles delivering the voice-over but his writers must have it wrong. That wasn't Orson Welles' voice.

One of the things that may play to our favor, as posters here on the board, is that our numbers vs. the number of viewers and fans that TCM has is rather small. Something that might be worth exploring is what do the people who post here most want to get out of the weekend? The chance to meet one another or the chance to see movies on the big screen or is their something we are missing? Because we are such a small group of hearty (or would that be hardy) fans, there may be some special events that could be planned just for the website junkies in addition to the larger convention for viewers and the general public. Just throwing ideas out here. The Cinemateque (or however they spell it) has a mailing list and does promote their screenings in the various daily newspapers and the weeklies here in LA. In addition, the Egyptian is one of the oldest movie theaters in Hollywood. Pre-dates Grauman's Chinese by a couple of years. In fact, Sid G opened this one first, then built the Chinese (which is within walking distance). The theater suffered a great deal of damage during the 1994 earthquake and was threatened with demolition until the Cinemateque came along and worked out a deal for it. The large auditorium has a stage and a state of the art sound system. While it is not as large as the original auditorium, with the balcony it can seat quite a few people. The smaller theater is also located in the main builidng, off to the side. The Pig and Whistle is right next door has private rooms that can be reserved for luncheons and cocktail parties. I went to the Cinecon luncheon that was held there back in 2005. There may be some promotional tie-ins that could be done with the Academy as well as UCLA Film and Television Archives, especially if Robert Gitt were on the Preservation Panel. Another panel that might provide cross promotion would be to do one with George Feltenstein and some of his crew from Warner Bros Home Video talking about the difficulties of bringing some of the classic era films to DVD as well as rights and legal issues.

Chip, You have a PM!

I LOVE this idea.>> Chip, I have a feeling a number of people like this idea as well. I know I do. I produce a Roundtable/Panel Discussion series as part of my preservation work and the ideas just started jumping out of my brain. You'd want to locate the host hotel(s) near the official cinema, hopefully walking distance.>> The Silent Movie Theater on Fairfax isn't going to be big enough, I fear for the attendance this will likely generate if they open sales up to the public (after TCM posters and fans have had time to secure their own). The Cinemateque at the Egyptian (where they have screenings of older films as well as the home of Cinecon here in Los Angeles) has two theaters. The larger auditorium with a balcony and a smaller theater that might be perfect for the Panel Discussions. Though if they did one on Film Preservation with David Shepard, Kevin Brownlow and Robert Gitt (and possibly Marty Scorsese) they would likely sell out on that one and require the big room. There are two hotels nearby. The Hollywood Roosevelt, home to the first Oscar ceremony, and the nearby, newer Renaissance. Both are walking distance to the Egyptian. There is a subway stop at Hollywood and Highland as well making it easy for some of us who live here to get there by subway. In addition, there is the Pig and Whistle and Miceli's nearby for those who want to grab a quick bite between movies or discussions. There is no nearby hotel near the Arclight on Sunset or the Billy Wilder Theater in Westwood (at least none that I can think of). The conference should begin Friday with a get acquainted cocktail party, say 6-8; this way travelers arriving later don't miss anything too major. I'd end Sunday night, with perhaps a low-key farewell breakfast Monday morning for those who stayed over Sunday. This way travelers could still get the major activities in Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and potentially fly out Sunday night --- again, if you are in NYC or LA, hotels can be pricey, and the difference between two and three nights could be a deciding factor for some.>> Excellent point. In addition to the screenings, I'd like to see occasional panel discussions on various aspects of classic films. The film studies departments of the city's universities could be very helpful here, and the students of their classes would also benefit from all of these activities.>> Perhaps get UCLA Film and Television Archives involved as well. I'd schedule a group social activity in each day in which TCMers could get to know each other, each of which could hopefully be hosted by someone like Robert O, Ben M, etc.>> The "get to know each other" aspect shouldn't be underestimated as that will be part of the big draw for a number of people, the chance to meet up with and talk with the faces behind the names. I would love for Friday night to be a meet and greet not only with posters but some of the staff of TCM as well. I'm being so detailed to show you guys that it ISN'T a pie-in-the-sky dream. It's actually workable, and could be put together at a price that many fans could afford. It would take 7 months to a year to put together right --- that would mean everything from committing celebrities to appear to arranging sponsor hotels, cinemas, airlines, and even official vodkas for the cocktail parties. Maybe I'll contact TCM with a real proposal. No matter what, I hope someone from TCM is reading this and gives it a thought.>> You and me as well. Love bouncing ideas back and forth. Message was edited by: lzcutter

Robert, Never mind!! I see that Dobbsy was able to help you! Message was edited by: lzcutter

Frankie, Wow! You sure know how to make a girl swoon. Don't ever try that line of "I don't know anything about movies, Miss Lynn" on me again! I didn't believe it after your wonderful dissertation on Vertigo and I don't believe it after your very thoughtful critiques of The Searchers and Liberty Valance. Now, i beg you, please go watch Harvey, more Ford films and be sure to watch Ox-Bow Incident tomorrow if you missed it in December. I love it when you talk movies. Message was edited by: lzcutter

ANOTHER SPOILER for The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance .************************************ MissG has said previously that Ford liked to create back stories for his characters that might or might not come to the fore. At the end, something has happened. Something unspoken is there, as solid as a wall between Rance and Hallie. Does Hallie love Tom? Or does she love the memory of Tom as he might have been? What made Hallie change her mind over the years? Might it have been the lie that Rance didn't tell, but accepted the consequences of? Would she love Rance even to this day if he had told everyone that Tom Donophon killed Liberty? More questions at the end of the movie than at the beginning. I like that.>> Jack, I think that Hallie did love Ranse but I think she was also in love with the idea of life beyond Shinbone. It matters not to Tom that Hallie doesn't know how to read but it matters to Hallie. As much as she loves Pete and his wife, I think the young girl in Hallie dreams of a different, perhaps better life. Ranse Stoddard arrives and with it the possibility of learning not only to read but of the world outside her small community. Ranse makes a big point of telling everyone "Nobody fights my battles" but in the end, someone else does. And Ranse, caught up in the moment, allows the lie to perpetrate when he accepts the nomination as the man who shot Liberty Valance. Part of me thinks that Hallie knew from the moment she sent Pompei to get "Mr. Tom" that Donaphin would step in. She likely thought that Donaphin would step in and fight Ranse's battle for him. Did she know he would do it from the shadows? The other part of me thinks she did not initially know, but as she and Ranse move on their lives, she must have heard via letters and trips back to Shinbone of how Tom's life spiraled out of control. There were probably whispers (there always are) that Ranse hadn't done the actually shooting. When she did find out, it put some distance between her and Ranse. No longer was he was he stand-up guy who got lucky with a shot. He was the guy who helped (along with her) to destroy someone who had once meant a great deal to her. She dreamed of having a better life but that better life did not provide her with the love and security she was dreaming of in Shinbone. She likely felt way out of her element not only in the social circles of Washington DC but at the Court of St. James as well. She was after all, just an orphan girl from Shinbone. I think as Ranse moved higher up the ladder and become more full of himself (he is quite the blowhard when we meet at the top of the movie talking with the newspaper men), Hallie began to wish for that simpler life that she had disdained so long ago. I think she came to understand that she might have been happier marrying Tom but it was too late to change any of that. As she grew more distant from Ranse (surprisingly, there is no mention of their children- did they have any?), the past, as it often does, begins to take on a rosier shade. I think she also came to understand the role that Ranse played in Tom's downfall but she would always have to live with the reminder that she was one that sent for "Mr Tom" and put the play in motion. By the time she arrives in Shinbone, she loves both men very much. Only at the end, when Ranse talks of retiring and giving up his public life, does she begin to warm up to him again. But a part of her will always love the man who shot Liberty Valance.

Tech, This happened back around the turn of the century when Academy moved the Oscar ceremony from March to February. TCM had a month-long salute to Racism in Film in 2006 that was one of the high points of their over all programming in recent years. Last month they had an evening of films from filmmaker Charles Burnett including his seldom seen Killer of Sheep. TCM is often highlighting films such as Hallelujah and other films from the 1930s and 1940s with similar themes so it might be worth keeping an eye on the upcoming monthly schedules.

think the only real likable character in it is Martin Pawley. I think this is very deliberate on Ford's part.>> Jack, I agree! In the beginning of the film, there is the possibility that Ethan will be a good and likable character. After all, Martha has loved him silently for all these years and he has returned to home and hearth after all these years. But with the massacre of his family and the kidnapping of Little Debbie, something in Ethan snaps. It was likely there buried deep for a long time but could have been brought up to the surface and or close to the surface with his service in the War. He has that haunted look when he arrives at the homestead of a man who has seen far too much killing (and probably participated in too much of it as well) which comes rushing back to him when he finds Martha's remains. The fact that Ethan is unlikable, I think, is one reason why some folks have a hard time with this movie. We are so used to Wayne being likable, even Dunston in Red River is not as ruthless, dark nor as dogged as Ethan is. SPOILER ALERT FOR LIBERTY VALANCE I also agree with you about Hallie coming to regret not marrying the man who really did shoot Liberty Valance.

I've always thought that Nathan Brittles and the way he mourns his wife in Yellow Ribbon is the character Kirby Yorke would be become later in life when he lost his beloved Kathleen. Though the movies were never meant to be sequels to one another, if you watch them: Fort Apache, Rio Grande and then Yellow Ribbon you can almost see the thread that really does tie them together thematically. As for The Searchers, well, they are two very different movies. Wayne gave us (and Pappy) a glimpse of how dark a character he could be in Red River and The Searchers certainly takes it to a whole new level. There are traces of that darkness in Tom Donaphin as well in Liberty Valance

For the first convention, I could see it being a long week-end as I think that's probably about what most folks could afford to do both time away from home/jobs and considering the expense. I very much like the idea of Roundtable Discussions with the staff of TCM and with some of our favorite stars as well as a smattering of screenings. I would love to see a Roundtable discussion on Film Preservation (perhaps with David Shepard, Kevin Brownlow, Robert Gitt and would love Marty Scorsese to be there too). Another topic I would like to see addressed is Legal Issues and the problems that TCM Programmers face when putting the schedules together. I think a Roundtable like this would help us all understand the process much better. Perhaps the Cinemateque at the Egyptian would be willing to be a partner? They have the two theaters, the nearby Pig and Whistle and/or Miceli's for eating and the nearby Roosevelt and Renaissance for those who need lodging.

lz, I thought SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON was indeed wonderful. Ben Johnson was a revelation.>> BG, Glad you enjoyed Yellow Ribbon. It is my favorite of the Cavalry Trilogy. Did you pick up on the backstory between Brittles and Quincannon. It is one of my favorite moments in the film and almost a throw away. Ben Johnson was a rodeo rider and steer roping champion whom Ford 'discovered' and put to work. He and 'Dobie' Carey are very good in Wagonmaster with Ward Bond. He is heartbreaking as Sam the Lion in The Last Picture Show. Glad you enjoyed Yellow Ribbon and look forward to hearing your thoughts on Liberty Valance.

The Legend of Bagger Vance is one I like very much but I'm not much of a golf fan.

Cinemaven, Robards is incredibly sexy as Dash Hammett in Julia as well. For the record, I was noticing how sexy he looked in the pics. In the West, the director's cut, is one of my favorite films. Without the director's cut, you are left wondering what ever happened to Cheyenne. He just up and disappears with no explanation.

Sugarpuss, You want to be sure that your blog is RSS compatible as that makes a difference. Also, you want the titles of your pieces to be specific enough that search engines will pick them up. An example would be: Movie I Love (too generic) To Kill a Mockingbird- My favorite film (better for getting hits) Also, you want tags for each piece you write as well as that helps search engines to find you and helps others find you as well. Also, you can publicize your blog on other classic movie sites to get those readers to visit your blog and to tell their friends. It's usually slow starting out but traffic to your site can improve very quickly and dramatically. You can PM me if you'd like to discuss this more!

Let's make a new rule. If a movie is less than 20 years old, it shouldn't be shown on TCM.>> Metro, When it first began broadcasting in 1994, its mission statement was films from the 1920s to the 1980s. After it reached its tenth anniversary, it updated its mission statement to include film from the 1990s, so this is an issue that, if you feel that strongly about it, should be taken up directly with TCM.

Mongo, You are going to make BenW plotz with joy!

"Go home, Jake. I'm doing you a favor." Lt. Lou Escobar, Chinatown Actor Perry Lopez, 78, passed away this week from lung cancer. Here's a link to his obit in the LA Times: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-passings17feb17,0,5488014.story Also, actor David Groh, better known as Joe, the man who married (and divorced) Rhoda, passed away earlier this week: http://www.latimes.com/news/obituaries/la-me-groh14feb14,0,4956661.story Message was edited by: lzcutter because without that pronoun the quote makes no sense.

Kenneth, I agree, keeping it updated is the key and requires some thought and time. Anyways, here's mine from Friday and the movies and theaters of my past: http://tinyurl.com/283bx3 Message was edited by: lzcutter because tinyurl.com is my friend.

Mark, What is the title of the documentary? Have you tried Amazon?

If you're interested in learning more about the vastly underrated and under-appreciated Finlay, you can catch the bio I wrote of him (and many of the films' other actors) in the Anchor Bay edition of the THREE/FOUR MUSKETEERS DVDs bonus features.>> CSJ, They are two of my favorite movies from the 1970s. I will keep an eye out for them from Anchor Bay as I would very much like to read some of your writings.

Chinatown for the Los Angeles of orange groves, bungalows and neon LA Confidential for the Los Angeles with the Carthay Circle Theater, stars at the Formosa Cafe and that wonderful home that David Straithern lives in. Chaplin for the rollicking early days of Hollywood when it was a much smaller town and orange groves and dirt roads were everywhere. Roger Rabbit for the working Red Car trollies. Ocean's Eleven (the original) for the Las Vegas Strip of our collective memory.

"On November 27, 1868...the US Calvary, commanded by Lieutenant Colonel George Armstrong Custer, launched a suprise attack on Black Kettle's Cheyenne village on the Washita River in Oklahoma. The village's 51 lodges housed the survivors of the 1864 Sand Creek Massacre. They did not consider themselves at war, but their attackers had orders to kill everyone they came upon....Two of Custer's scout's estimated from 40 to 75 women and children killed.">> In addition, the Indians warned Custer that should he ever march on them again, they would kill him. They remained to true to their word when he marched into the Valley of the Little Big Horn. It's in the book: Son of the Morning Star: Custer and The Little Bighorn by Evan S. Connell