lzcutter

Fred, Reconstructions have only happened on a small number of films. "Greed", "Sadie Thompson", "Lost Horizon", "Star is Born", "Magnificent Ambersons" and "Touch of Evil" are the ones that come readily to mind and only because the elements no longer exist to return the film to its original release length. To say that film preservationists will willy-nilly start including them in films such as "Gone With the Wind' and "Kane" only serves to mock the hard work that those working in film preservation do. Given the high cost of preservation and restoration, a reconstruction is not undertaken lightly. Barring a vault fire or other diaster, you are not going to see still pictures cut into "Gone With the Wind" or any other film that has undergone modern day preservation. However, given the number of films turning to dust and goo in film vaults everywhere (see the posts about the commentary on Spartacus), you are likely to see more of them as more of our national film heritage disappears. And for the record, the majority of people working in film preservation and restoration today are men and women who have a deep love for movies, a good sense of film history and a deep appreciation for them as well. You tend to imply that they are little more than over educated UCLA students studying film theory and practising that theory on cinematic classics and that is simply not the case.

I am very aware about alternate takes and footage that hits the cutting room floor and the amount of film that is shot and never makes it into the movie. The reason stills are used in reconstruction is because the film elements do not exist any longer (including alternate takes). Right or wrong, the studios often re-cut films after their initial release. The footage that was excised over time found its way to the dumping yards and land fills of Los Angeles. On many black and white films that footage was melted down for its silver content during WW2. The only way people years from now will work to restore those reconstructed films to their all film glory is if the elements somehow, someday, turn up in some out of the way place or foreign archive and, in the case of sound motion pictures, the excised sound tracks can be found. Greed is eighty years old and still no footage has turned up, neither has footage shown up for "Lost Horizon" or for "Star". As Johnny pointed out, the final reel of "Sadie Thompson" dissolved into goo making it impossible to use. Should the film never be shown or should stills be used to reconstruct the final reel. Studios did not know there was ever going to be a market or an interest in alternative takes or alternative endings or all the wonderful things that make up DVD extras features. When they needed the shelf space, they threw stuff out, including trims, printing elements and anything else that was deemed past its prime. Still photos are used when no known elements exist to use. As for Cukor he was in support of Haver's efforts using stills on the reconstruction of "Star". Message was edited by: lzcutter

Johnny, Thanks you for your articulate post. I wanted to also say that George Cukor never watched "A Star is Born" after Warners edited down the version that originally premiered. In the mid-1980s, Ron Haver (working with Warner Bros and the AFI) began the search for the missing elements in hopes of finding them and restoring "Star" to its original glory. Cukor was involved with this and helped by giving Haver access to his notes, scripts etc. Some elements (mainly sound) were discovered (for the entire story one should read Haver's book) but the majority of the cut film scenes were not. Haver chose to use production stills in place of the lost film so that the story could be told the way that Cukor had originally envisioned. Cukor by all accounts was excited to see the finished restoration. He had long maintained that one of the biggest problems with the cut down version was the loss of James Mason's heartbreaking performance. In fact, many believe that Mason may have won the Oscar that year had the Academy been judging his performance in the original release. Cukor died the night before he was to see the restoration. But, luckily, thanks to Ron Haver and everyone else working on the restoration, we are able today to see the beauty and heartbreak of Cukor's original version. "Greed" and "Lost Horizon" were just as mythic in terms of lost footage that had been cut from the original. Once again, because a still photographer was on the set doing their job, we today have reconstructions that show us the original intent of the filmmakers. Is it a perfect solution? No. But until those lost elements show up in someone's attic, a foreign archive or in a freezer in the Yukon, (and we should never say never because there is always hope, no matter how small), these reconstructions are better than not having them at all. As with all things, you can always choose to watch something else if reconstructions are not to your liking while the rest of us will enjoy them. It's all about choice. Message was edited by: lzcutter

Mongo, All the medical examiner's office is saying is they don't suspect foul play. Will probably have an update this evening after the evening news and will report if they are saying anything new.

Fred, Not trying to con you into liking anything. Just trying to make the point that the schedule for February is always like this because of the salute to Oscars and that this February is not an anomaly. It is not the beginning of the end nor the doom of TCM. It is the salute to Oscar. If you think they are junk, you can always vote with your remote. Others will choose to watch them. The choice is yours.

I'll try again: February is TCM's annual salute to the Oscars. Nominated films from all decades are run as TCM salutes Hollywood's favorite golden boy. If you've been watching TCM for years then this is not a surprise to you nor is it the end of TCM or the AMC-ification of TCM. It is simply the annual TCM Salute to the Oscars called "31 Days of Oscar". And yes, it does spill over into the first week of March. Why? Because there are not 31 days in February. Message was edited by: lzcutter

Another comment worth noting was the fact that 50 % of all "old" movies will be forever lost, as they are already beyond the point of digital restoration, according to people who dealt with the restoration of "Spartacus". It made me very sad to hear that. >> When you add that to the number of silents and early sound films that have been lost, the number becomes almost overwhelming. Film preservation and restoration should get much more support from the arts community than it does. The American Film, like the blues and jazz, is one the greatest gifts in the 20th Century to come from America. That we value it so little says a great deal about what a disposable society we have become. It is shameful, given the big dollars in Hollywood, that preservation organizations still have to go around with their hats in their hands begging for money to save our national treasures. And it seems, there is never enough money given to make a dent. It is truly sad.

TCM needs to hire some old film makers to work on their restorations, people who know what they are doing, and kick out the youngsters who are mutilating films by adding the colorization and still photos.>> Fred, The majority of men and women working in film preservation and restoration are middle aged. For the record, TCM did not restore "Lost Horizon" or "Greed". Turner helped with the reconstruction of "Greed". UCLA Film Archives restored "Lost Horizon" and the late Ron Haver of the Los Angeles County Art Museum was the main guy (working with Warner Brothers, AFI and George Cukor) behind the reconstruction of "A Star is Born". It is not 20 years old that in charge of film restoration though I think you like to believe that. There are times when you are very insightful and helpful when you post. But lately, it seems like you enjoy posting to stir the pot. Either way, I'm retiring from this banter with you because it really serves no purpose other than to stir the pot and there's enough of that going around here that it doesn't need my contributions. null Message was edited by: lzcutter null

Fred, The original eight hour cut of "Greed" is, as I'm sure you know, considered one of the most sought after "lost" films. The controversy over Von Stroheim's vision vs Thalberg's decision on cutting the film down is a controversy that is still debated to this day. In 1999, Turner helped with this reconstruction of "Greed". The stills are all that remains (at least that we know of), and using them here at least gives us the closest idea to Von Stroheim's vision that we are likely to ever have (barring the film or neg being found someday). The tinting is used on the photos here where the film was hand tinted. As a film professional and film buff, I am sure you know the different tints that were used in silent films and why they were used. Many people would give their eye teeth to see Von Stroheim's eight hour version or even the four hour version. Sadly, as of now, those two cuts are lost to history. This reconstruction is all we have and while reconstruction of films utilizing photos where the film no longer exists is not for everyone there are many who have come to a better appreciation of Cukor's "A Star is Born" and Von Stroheim's "Greed" because of these restorations. Message was edited by: lzcutter

Cornstarkel and Fred Whether you consider them classics or not, the bottom line is they were nominated for Oscars in one category or another so the Academy thought enough of them. That's why they are being shown on TCM in February because it's TCM's annual salute to Oscar, hence "The 31 Days of Oscar". From the first movies nominated back in the 1920s till the movies nominated last year, all are eligible to be shown on TCM during Feb. Every year we go through this. If you don't believe me check way back in the forum archives. You'll see this is not unusual nor the end of the TCM.

Fred, It is annual 31 days of Oscar salute that TCM does every year. The fun this year is in playing the game to figure out what each day's theme is. But really, they've been doing this salute for years and is not evidence or further evidence that TCM is doomed. Message was edited by: lzcutter

I would have no problem with a Jack Webb night. (By the way, how many movies did he make? I can think of a few, none very distinguished or classic.)>> RC, If I recall correctly, I think there may be rights issues with some of the Webb movies. I vaguely recall that he helped finance some of them and thus shared ownership. Perhaps Mongo or one of the others conversant in film rights can tell us the skinny on the this.

The other thing that "Rocky" had going for it was its rags to riches story. Back then everyone seemed to be aware that Stallone had written the film and held out to star in it and wanted to direct it. Only little United Artists would take a flyer on the guy and even then they didn't let him direct it. They offered him a great deal of money if he would relent on starring in the film but Sly hung tough. If I remember the story correctly, houses were mortgaged and the movie had to be made for less than a million dollars if Stallone was going to star in it. But the publicity about how he had worked so long and tried so hard to get someone to bankroll the film resonated with everyone back then (and that was back in the day when publicity campaigns for the Oscars were much more tame and not as costly as they are now). It was one of the moments in filmmaking when all the elements came together. Also, this was the 1970s (and I don't want to start a political thread on this okay???) and after Watergate, Vietnam and everything else, the country really was looking for hero and the struggle of Rocky Balboa (and by extension, Sylvester Stallone) resonated with a great number of people back then.

Ginger, We have had a wonderful collection of precodes thanks to Robert Montgomery being the STOM! Plus, silents coming up like "Souls for Sale" and the restored version of "Greed". Not to mention the Shelley Winters tribute. Last couple of months have brought us Bing Crosby, documentaries on Merian C. Cooper and Budd Boetticher, the restored King Kong, Christmas in Connecticut, Christmas Story, and other goodies including a "An Evening with Cary Grant" and two night's ago a show about Judy Garland.

Mongo, As always you are correct. I should have typed that James Mason should have won. His performance in that film is heartbreaking. Thanks for catching my error!!!

1954: Grace Kelly over Judy Garland (A Star is Born) and James Mason didn't even get a nomination.

Larry, Thanks for the interesting history on the Romanovs. Speaking of the Romanovs... Totally unrelated to the family but did you ever dine at Romanov's here in Los Angeles? If so, can you tell us a bit about it?

However, I will certainly let you know if and when I'm in LA >> Larry, I'll be here!

Sam, It was orginally produced by PBS for its "American Masters" series. I saw it on PBS about a year ago. It is definitely worth recording. Had some great footage and some great quotes as I recall.

Larry, Next time you make it down here to Southern California, I hope you will let me know. Would love to get together with you for lunch, dinner or drinks (or all three!) and share our love of old Hollywood and movies! Your pal, Lynn

Larry, Wanted to let you know that I visited the Autry Museum in Griffith Park yesterday. They had a terific exhibit honoring Sergio Leone. Did you or Mongo know that the dusters the bad guys (Jack Elam, Woody Strode and the other guy) wear in the opening sequence to "Once Upon A Time in the West" were the same ones worn in "Liberty Valence"? Leone found them on a rack at Western Costume (back when WC used to be in Hollywood). Anyways, the real point of my post is this: One of the regular exhibits has the piano from the Doheny Mansion. The upright with the Indian Scene painted on the front. It is a beautiful piece and the display they have it with compliments it very well. Just wanted to let you know! Lynn in Sherman Oaks

Laura, There are many reasons why Fort Apache is considered an Essential. It is the first of three films that became known as Ford's "Cavalry Trilogy". The other two are "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon" and "Rio Grande" and it is here with Fort Apache that he sets some of the basic themes and frameworks that will play out in the other two and in his other westerns.. Also, this film allows Henry Fonda a rare role of being the antagonist and he plays it with his customary expertise. Also, SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Given that Thursday's character has hubris, arrogance and pride the ending is not the customary "happy ending" that is typical of many films from that era. Also, it allows Ford to explore the themes of men versus orders. The end scene with Wayne and the reporters will be visited again in "The Man Who Shot Libery Valence" with the coda "When legend becames fact, print the legend." Finally, the supporting roles are filled with those who will make up the Ford Stock Company in his films throughout the 1950s and Ford gives George O'Brien (a old friend who had a falling out with Ford years before) a wonderful role. "Fort Apache" shows a maturity on Ford's part after his experiences in WW2. Ford began his love with westerns and a common thread runs through his westerns from his silent epic "The Iron Horse" through to "Cheyenne Autumn". He begins with the western frontier and in each film shows how the West was changed with advancing pioneers, the military who braved the unknown often in hostile territory, the toll it takes on their families and how often it humanizes them to the very enemy they have taken a vow to defeat, the brave men and women who lived on the edge of civilization and ultimately the cost of that progress on the Indian tribes and always the struggle between right and wrong and good and evil. Having made the mythic westerns, he shows us in"Liberty Valence" what happens when myth and reality collide and the picture behind that collision is heartbreaking. Each step of the way, Ford became more assured as a filmmaker and reached the top of the pyramid in terms of being a filmmaker. "Fort Apache" is a essential stop along that story.

Ralph, Thanks for thinking of me. I posted about Tony and Shelley on Mongo's "Gone Without Fanfare" (as Larry so sweetly pointed out). I've been laying low due to all the animosity that has sprung up on the boards over the Miyazaki films, anime in general and the constant TCM is turning into AMC posts. As for where is the tribute to Shelley that one poster below asked about. TCM has rescheduled this Monday for their day long tribute to our beloved Shelley. She'd probably say "Why go to the trouble for me" but I would hope we would all reply because we want to thank you for all the wonderful roles you gave us over the years.

Fred, RE: The Fifth Element and why it was filmed at a historic bank in South Dakota. Star of the movie, Bruce Willis, at the time lived in Idaho and that may have had something to do with the choice of location.

Boy, is this a strange coincidence. Imagine Shelley Winters and now Anthony Franciosa dying within a few days of each other.>> Larry, As I recall they had a very stormy, short marriage. Do you suppose they ever kissed and made up and are now sharing a drink with James Mason?