lzcutter

February 23, 2007

Izcutter, you make some fine points, but tbh, there's a lot of different interpretations that could be derived from the historical facts about the 60's.>>

I thought I was adding to the posts about why musical films failed to catch on with the public from the mid 1960s to the early 1970s. I apologize for interjecting some of my real life experiences from those years since you yourself asked for replies from those of us who were there.

<

We can disagree about whether it died in the early 60's or late 60's, or even later, but it's just a minor point in the big picture.>>

Well, thanks Ms. Moderator, I guess that closes

the book on this thread.

We'll just all move along now.

February 23, 2007

Jack,

I posted this in the General Forum about "The Gang's All Here" and it probably bears repeating here. I didn't realize that Cinemascope had posted in both places.

Here's my post:

According to a film archivists group that I belong to the situation is not quite as dire as the story paints.

There was a CRI (color reversal interneg) that was made in the 1970s from the original nitrate elements. Most everyone is in agreement that the CRI is badly faded.

However, four IB prints were made during this same time. Two are in private hands. Of these two, one is in better shape than the other. The one in better shape, as I understand it, has been screened at the Egyptian in Hollywood and at the Film Forum in NYC. Fox decided not to use this IB print (though it was offered) when they authored the DVD for "Gang". This print is legitimately in private hands because in the 1970s, this gentleman legally licensed the film back in the 1970s for reissue.

The other privately held print was a mint, unprojected print that was finally screened. When it was finally screened, it was damaged. I would hope that someone would have noticed the damage being done and hopefully it was limited to only one reel (and hopefully not the entire reel).

Of the other two prints, both belong to Fox. One is thought to have been junked and the other is what was used for the DVD.

The better of the two prints in private hands was offered to Fox for the box set but Fox declined.

Many of the archivists have viewed the screen captures on the dvd beaver site and some are of the opinion that perhaps the problem was that colorist went for a more 'modern' look instead of the saturated technicolor look and that is why the color seems off in the film.

Either way, the good news is that a good IB print of the film in all its saturated color does exist.

Fox just chose, for unknown reasons at this point, not to use it.

February 23, 2007

He has spoken of cutting his teeth with those films and learning about direction, but I don't think he helped or claimed to help Leone. >>

But one would hope that he had some ideas for his character that perhaps Leone had not considered.

A good director will listen to the suggestions of his cast and crew. Whether he decides to use them is another story. But he will listen.

Perhaps, Leone listened and let Clint use some of his ideas.

February 23, 2007

Izcutter,

Did you read what he said? He said all of his films were "horribly directed." I'd certainly never say that about a director who has passed on, it seems tactless at best and downright mean-spirited at worst. He did make some fine films, even if they're not everyone's cup of tea. Were some of his movies flawed? I wouldn't dispute that, but I'm not going to totally lambast the life work of any filmmaker unless I could have shown them how to do it better. Anyone who couldn't have shown them how to do a better job should just shut up, myself included. >>

Yes, I read what he said. As for Josh Logan, the one film he directed that I truly think is a good film (actually exceptional) is Mr Roberts. But it's hard to go wrong with the play and Fonda recreating his Broadway role.

The one thing that perhaps needs to be remembered here is that this a message board.

People are entitled to their likes and dislikes. You may not always agree with them and you may not like the way they word it, but they are entitled to their opinion.

February 23, 2007

Anne,

They were difficult times. Other than the Civil War a hundred years earlier, can I think of a decade that was so decisive for us (the bigger us) as a country.

All these years later, I try to hold no grudges for whatever side someone was on (Robert McNamara excepted).

The turmoil of the 1960s effected parts of the country differently and it effected us all differently.

Today, all I know for sure is that there were some things worth standing up for and there were some things worth fighting for but all of us that came of age from the early 1960s to Watergate, we were shaped in large part, by the things we believed in, the choices we made and the times we lived in.

I'm glad I came of age during that time as I like to believe that it made me a better, more tolerant, if more jaded, human being.

February 23, 2007

It's a generational thing... by the 60's a lot of young people were listening to the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan... they probably weren't very interested in old-fashioned musicals.>>

There is a big difference in the early 1960s and the late 1960s.

In the early 1960s, Broadway and Hollywood were both producing good musicals. My Fair Lady, The Sound of Music, I Do! I Do! and many others. America, as a country and as society, were for the most part still quite optimistic and living large.

The Civil Rights Movement had its harrowing moments but finally it looked like we were going to get past the Civil War and Jim Crow finally.

The Cuban Missile Crisis gave everyone pause. But, when it was over, we went back to the Space Race, listening to early rock and roll and still living large. Vietnam was happening but not yet on everyone's radar.

Then JFK was assassinated and Vietnam escalated, the riots in Watts and other major cities.

The music began to change, the Beatles when they first came to the States were basically a pop group (a good group but their early songs were really pop).

Bob Dylan and the folk movement gave way to Dylan going electric and the sounds coming out of Los Angeles and San Francisco sounded less and less like the Brill Building and Tin Pan Alley sounds.

As those who came of age in the mid to late 60s and even into the early 1970s, the predominant music became the songs that are now golden oldies. Not everyone who was a hippie took drugs and not everyone who listened to the music of that time was a hippie.

By 1968, JFK, Martin Luther King, Jr and Bobby Kennedy were dead. We were mired in Vietnam and the Tet Offensive helped seal the fate of the Vietnam war.

Every night on the news there were more stories of the horrors of the war over there.

By 1969, musicals weren't as popular as they had been just six years earlier. Why? Because the country was different. There weren't many high points in 1969 besides landing a man on the moon.

Families were torn apart by politics and Vietnam. It seemed that good leaders were likely to meet their fate with an violence. Charles Manson and his family brought the "love" generation to a screeching halt. Watergate reminded us that no one, not even the president, is above the law.

After living with and through all you would think we would have wanted escapism when we went to the movies.

Hollywood found out the hard way, that unlike previous generations, we didn't want escapism. We wanted movies that more reflected our lives and the times we were living in.

We were growing as a society and the movies had to grow with us.

February 23, 2007

It could be a nice idea, but could they get the rights to use the footage from past ceremonies? >>

I would think that they could do a partnership with the Academy on this and include interview footage with winners and nominees from the Turner Archive Project.

I would think the Academy would be quite a willing partner. Now, whether or not Paramount and Universal and the other studios want to play nice regarding the footage from nominated films and winners is another story.

But, it would definitely be worth investigating I would think.

The major drawback regarding footage of the awards is that there may not be footage of every years ceremony until the Awards debuted on television. Even some of the early television ceremonies may no longer exist.

From the 1960s on it seems like most broadcasts do exist but prior to that, it would be worth checking out.

February 23, 2007

Holly Hunter and David Straithern in The Firm.

They were so good in that scene at the end of the film that I wish the movie had been about the two of them.

February 23, 2007

My question however, is Was February always oscar month?>>

The Oscars used to be the last Monday in March so TCM's 31 Days of Oscar used to be in March.

A few years ago, the Academy decided to move the Oscars to the last Sunday in February.

When that happened, TCM moved their Oscar salute to February!

February 22, 2007

Cinemascope,

I don't understand how Johnm saying he doesn't like Paint Your Wagon and other Logan directed films is being disrespectful of the dead?

Paint Your Wagon has some fine moments in it (I saw it on its original release and watched it just last month).

That said, it is a mess of a film and as the director, Logan is responsible for that.

February 22, 2007

i seem to have a noticeable lack of (not as many) Davis, Crawford and Bogie movies in recent months. But since i don?t keep statistics I cant tell if that is mere perception or fact.>>

In November, TCM had a salute to John Ford all month long.

In December, Gary Cooper was the star of the month.

In January, Jean Arthur was the star of the month and we began to see premieres of the Columbia Film Library that TCM now has access to.

This month we have had Detective Story, Sunset Blvd, She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, Liberty 'valance, Cinema Paradiso, Shane (a premiere), The Professionals, Flower Drum Song and many more.

We have seen just as many studio classics from Davis, Crawford and Bogie and all the others that we always have.

Upcoming highlights include the six recently found RKO films, more Columbia premieres, a month long salute to Kate Hepburn and John Wayne on the occasion of their 100 birthdays, a salute to Laurence Olivier, a salute to Marlon Brando including screening of "Streetcar" and "On the Waterfront".

TCM has always from the very beginning taken a big tent approach to the films it shows, including films from the silent days to the 1990s, foreign films and documentaries.

TCM is also the only channel where you can see films uncut, commercial free and in their original aspect ratio.

Perhaps it is not that TCM is changing its format but perhaps your perceptions.

February 22, 2007

However I would rather they showed tons of reruns of the Classic Movies they do have access to from the (30s-60s)>>

Really??

Because there are threads on this message board from folks who don't like the repeat viewings of some films each month.

TCM has 720 hours each month to fill with programming. I can imagine the howls of indignation that would go up if 360 (or more) of those hours were repeated viewings.

People would stop watching TCM and the channel would likely go off the air.

February 22, 2007

I for one will if not already stop watching the channel until it resumes its great programming of classic movies of (30s-60s) exclusively with may be the odd movie from the 70s. >>

Mr Dash,

As a loyal viewer of TCM you surely realize that it is the 31 Days of Oscar salute that runs every year from February 1st until March 4th.

This programming highlights Oscar nominated and winning films from all decades. This salute has been part of TCM's yearly line-up for ten years that I know of .

Every year this message board is filled with threads just like yours decrying the selections and every year on March 5th, TCM returns to its regular programming of classic films from all decades.

Unfortunately, since you are no longer watching TCM in the upcoming weeks you will be missing the six recently recovered RKO classics that TCM scoured the globe for, numerous Columbia premieres and other gems.

February 22, 2007

Matte artist extraordinaire, Peter Ellenshaw, has passed away. Before computer generated backgrounds came along, backgrounds were often created with paint and glass and Ellenshaw was the master craftsman. He worked for much of his career at Disney.

Among his more famous films Stairway to Heaven, Black Narcissus, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, Mary Poppins, Treasure Island, Island at the Top of the World, Darby O'Gill and the Little People and many more.

Here's his obit from the LA Times:

Peter Ellenshaw, 93; Oscar-winning special effects artist for Disney

By Dennis McLellan, Times Staff Writer

February 15, 2007

Peter Ellenshaw, an Academy Award-winning special effects artist who worked on Disney classics such as "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," "Darby O'Gill and the Little People" and "Mary Poppins," for which he won his Oscar, has died. He was 93.

Ellenshaw, who also was a renowned sea and landscape artist, died of age-related complications Monday at his home in Santa Barbara, said his son, Harrison.

The British-born Ellenshaw's more than 30-year association with Walt Disney Studios began in 1947 when he was hired in London to do matte paintings for Disney's first live-action film, "Treasure Island" (1950).

In 1953, he was brought to California to work on "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea," for which he created several matte paintings of Capt. Nemo's secret island base of Vulcania.

He went on to do matte paintings and other special effects for more than 30 other Disney films, including "The AbsentMinded Professor," "Pollyanna," "Swiss Family Robinson," "The Happiest Millionaire," "The Love Bug" and "The Black Hole." He also did matte paintings for Disney TV fare, such as "Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier," "Zorro" and "Texas John Slaughter."

"He's one of the titans of visual effects in an era before people took visual special effects for granted," film critic and historian Leonard Maltin told The Times on Wednesday.

Unlike the digital special effects of today, Maltin explained, "a matte painter literally painted on panes of glass that, when suspended properly in front of the camera or double-exposed, give a perfect illusion.

"So when you see London Harbor full of tall-masted schooners in 'Treasure Island,' that's an Ellenshaw painting. When Mary Poppins sails over the rooftops of London, that's an Ellenshaw painting. And when Davy Crocket rides down the path to Washington, that's an Ellenshaw painting."

Ellenshaw also contributed to the design of several rides at Disneyland and painted the first map of the Magic Kingdom, which appeared on early postcards and souvenir booklets at the Anaheim theme park.

"Peter was a Disney legend in every sense of the word and played a vital role in the creation of many of the studio's greatest live-action films from the very beginning," Roy E. Disney, former vice chairman of the Walt Disney Co., said in a statement. "He was a brilliant and innovative visual effects pioneer who was able to consistently please my Uncle Walt and push the boundaries of the medium to fantastic new heights."

Born in London on May 24, 1913, Ellenshaw moved to Essex, England, with his parents and two sisters during World War I, when he was 3. He later recalled seeing German zeppelins in the sky.

"My mother put us under the kitchen table while they were overhead and gave us pencils and paper to draw with," he recalled in a 1980 interview with The Times. "After the age of 4, I learned to draw airplanes; in fact, that got me interested in art."

His father died while Ellenshaw was still young and his mother married a gardener who worked on an estate. To help support the family, Ellenshaw dropped out of school at 14 and spent the next six years working on cars in a garage while continuing to paint.

By then living in the small town of Oxbridge, near the London film studios, he became friends with renowned matte artist Walter Percy Day, who eventually offered him a job. From 1935 to 1941, Ellenshaw worked as an uncredited assistant matte artist on a dozen films, including "The Thief of Bagdad" and "Major Barbara."

Ellenshaw served in the Royal Air Force during World War II, and then worked as a matte artist on "Black Narcissus," "Stairway to Heaven," "Quo Vadis" and other films.

After doing special effects and the production design on the 1974 Disney adventure-fantasy "The Island at the Top of the World" ? for which he shared an Oscar nomination for best art direction ? Ellenshaw and his wife moved to Ireland, where he painted landscapes for a couple of years before returning to California.

From then on, he did only occasional film work, including the 1979 Disney space adventure "The Black Hole," for which he shared an Oscar nomination for best visual effects.

Ellenshaw, who also shared an Oscar nomination for art direction for the 1971 film "Bedknobs and Broomsticks," came out of retirement for the last time to do matte paintings for the 1990 film "Dick Tracy."

Bobbie, Ellenshaw's wife of 58 years, died in 2000. In addition to his son Harrison, who is a visual effects artist, Ellenshaw is survived by his daughter, Lynda Ellenshaw Thompson, a visual effects producer, and two grandchildren.

Funeral services will be private. Instead of flowers, donations may be made to Direct Relief International, 27 S. La Patera Lane, Santa Barbara, CA 93117.

February 22, 2007

Yes, but I think since TCM is a classic movie channel they should try to get Louise Brooks movies if they don't already have them. >>

Sweetbaby,

One of the problems is that most of Brooks American films (before she went to Europe) were done for Paramount.

The good news, Paramount still owns its silent Film Library.

The bad news, Paramount still owns its silent Film Library.

Paramount Home Video is notorious for ignoring its silents. (How long have we been waiting for Wings?).

Hopefully one of these days Paramount will realize that there is money to be made by restoring their silents and making them available to TCM and on DVD.

The other problem is that Lulu made some films for Fox as well before it became 20th Century Fox. 20th Century Fox had a vault fire at their Eastern lab many, many years ago and a great number of its silents were lost in that fire.

February 22, 2007

Moira mentioned this title in a post of hers a few days back. There is a book with this title.

But I have been thinking about skylines since reading Moira's post.

What films do you think best depict certain cities?

Manhattan the film may not be one of my favorite Woody Allen films but New York City sure looks beautiful in that film.

February 22, 2007

Also, Robert Wise was the original editor OW had chosen (he had also edited Citizen Kane, it was after the sneak previews that RKO ordered Wise to make the changes they saw fit. >>

Yes, I know Wise was the original editor. I should have said brought back inside of wording the sentence the way I did.

February 22, 2007

In all fairness to Orson Welles, we should note that The Magnificent Ambersons was taken away from him and and majorly edited>>

We should also keep in mind that OW left for South America to scout locations for a film he wanted to do on the Carnivale in Brazil. That film never got off the ground and when Welles returned to the States, he found out that Magnificent Ambersons had been sneaked and performed poorly. So, RKO brought in Robert Wise to re-edit the film in hopes of bigger box office.

Ambersons was only Welles second film and many believe his ego and his eccentricities got the better of him. He should have stayed until Ambersons was finished and he should have been here to fight for the film after the bad previews.

John Ford and others noted over the years that Welles was often his own worst enemy when it came to working within the studio system.

I love Ambersons and I mourn its missing footage each time I see the film. To me, even in its truncated form, this is Welles at his best.

I just wish he had been wiser in choosing his battles.

February 22, 2007

Does anyone know how much a commentary track adds to the production costs of a dvd? Lynn, Kyle, anybody?>>

Moira,

I don't think its for lack of finding someone to do the audio commentary nor is it likely that the cost of the commentary would be prohibitive.

This is a Sam Goldwyn production and according to imdb was released by RKO and MGM later released the Home Video.

As both RKO and MGM libraries are under the care and feeding of Warner Bros. (at least pre-1986 MGM films), I am at a loss as to why Warners has not released this on DVD with extras.

Tis a puzzlement.....

February 22, 2007