lzcutter
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Posts posted by lzcutter
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"You got a choice, Dishwasher. Either you get out of town, or tonight you be out on that street alone. You be there, and don't make us come and get you. "
This film introduced me at a young age to Lee Marvin. I have loved him and his voice ever since. I miss him and wish that he had a longer life.
Thank the Lord this film was made in black and white.
If it had been made in color I think it would be a very different film.
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I never found out why they used nitrate.>>
Fred,
I think one reason that nitrate was the studio norm despite the fact that safety film was available early in the 1930s was because the nitrate stock had a higher silver content in it than safety film. With a higher silver content, you get deeper colors in black and white photography. Black and white nitrate film projected on a carbon arc projector is a thing of beauty. The same film on safety film looks good but it has a more luminous quality to it on nitrate.
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Can you tell me whether the stuff on the cutting room floor was usually recycled in some way, or just destroyed? >>
The film wasn't recycled in today's meaning of the word but some musicals numbers that were cut from one film would find their way into another musicals starring the same stars so in that sense, it was recycled.
If we do have outtakes of material from before 1960, why was it kept, exactly?>>
Ayres,
There is outtake material prior to 1960 but not as much as there should be. Screen tests, outtakes and some alternate endings still survive but by and large, most of the material was likely melted down for its silver content during WW2 or destroyed in one of the many "clean out the vault, we need more room" edicts from the front office.
Safety film was in wide use by the early 1950s, so we tend to have more outtake material available from then on. However, it was often mislabeled or misfiled. Some of it, no doubt, found its way into the hands of private collectors.
MGM has the reputation of having the most complete silent and classic library because back in the early 1960s the studio began transferring their older nitrate based films to safety films (they had their own lab so I'm guessing the costs were able to be absorbed more easily).
But they had a vault fire in the mid-1960s that destroyed many of their negatives, including the nitrate negative of London After Midnight.
The Freed Unit at MGM and the editors that worked on the musicals likely went the extra mile to keep the negative and sound elements of musical numbers that had been cut in case they might come in handy in the future.
Warner's Star is Born is probably one of the more famous examples of material being kept and of being lost. The movie was cut after its initial release because of the running time. When Ron Haver and the AFI wanted to restore the film to its original length as a tribute to George Cukor, Haver went on a treasure hunt through the vaults of Warner Brothers and talked to some of the old time editors and vault employees.
He was able to find some of he original elements, mainly the soundtrack, but over the years the film elements had largely been lost. Haver resorted to using production stills to cover the missing picture. There were times when the soundtrack was missing but alternate takes were available that he was able to use.
I think for the most part that it is a miracle that any outtakes, bloopers, screen tests and cut material survives because before the release of That's Entertainment and the creation of Home Video, this material was usually deemed to have no shelf life and easily discarded when the need for shelf space arose.
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He's on TCM right now:
Liberty Valance
Well, Dude....
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If you take two-and-a-half hours to tell a story that could have been told in 90 minutes (such as Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl) then that's bad directing. Or a combination of bad directing and bad editing.>>
I would add bad shooting script as well. Black Pearl, for me, was almost unwatchable. There was the short scene in the middle of the film between Orlando Bloom and Bill Nighy that was great. If the movie had been about that story, I probably would have enjoyed it. As it was, it was interminable.
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Nikon,
Relax, the TCM you know and love returns on March 5th.
It is the annual 31 Days of Oscar Salute that as a loyal TCM viewer you no doubt remember is a month filled with Oscar nominated and winning films from all decades.
For more information, do a search in this forum for other threads on the subject.
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A studio print was one that was not usually circulated and rarely left the lot. Because they were not usually circulated and were not part of the rental inventory back in the day, these prints were often pristine and the color (including black and white) was crisp and gorgeous.
When I was in college and we did tributes to Gene Kelly and others, we would ask for studio prints for the evening that the celebrated stars were to be honored.
They are sometimes referred to as vault prints.
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Not a repertory theater in the conventional sense but in Las Vegas in the original MGM Grand Hotel (now Bally's) was one of the great movie theaters.
It was downstairs. There was a jewelers, a fine art gallery, a crafts store, probably some sort of souvenir store, the Memorabilia store that had lobby cards, pictures, posters and lots of cool movie stuff for sale. They had costumes on display and even some props.
And then there was the movie theater. Though indoors, it had a marquee. The bill changed every week. Inside, there were plush love seats with a small table in front of you. You could press a button on the front of that table and a cocktail waitress would come and take your order.
The best part: they played studio prints of classic MGM films. Each screening included a cartoon and a newsreel (often the famous anniversary lunch promo). Everything from early talkies to the Wizard of Oz to the War years to Freed Unit musicals. Once a year they would bring out the big four: Gone with the Wind, 2001, Dr. Zhivago and Ryan's Daughter.
You even got a printed one page program listing the actors and the crew and a synopsis.
All that for $2.00. It was movie heaven here on earth.
We also had a Cinerama Dome but that's another story.
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Needless to say, I am so disappointed in
TCM's influx of post 50's movies which
not only can I rent, but also watch on
TNT and a lot of other stations.
In my opinion, TCM is selling out and losing
the wonderful uniqueness this station
was founded for. >>
Stardrops,
It is The 31 Days of Oscar Salute on TCM going on now through March 4th.
Come March 5th it is back to the big tent approach that TCM has always had: all films from all decades.
March, April and May are filled with never before seen on TCM premieres from Columbia, Universal and Paramount. A 100th Birthday salute to Kate Hepburn, John Wayne and Larry Olivier. A Salute to Marlon Brando.
So, hang in there.
As for post-1950s films that you can see on other channels, TCM is the only channel that will show them commercial free, uncut and in their original aspect ratio.
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I should also add Singin in the Rain and Cinema Paradiso to my list.
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Dfordoom,
Hearts of the West with Jeff Bridges, Blythe Danner, Andy Griffith and Alan Arkin
Nickelodeon Peter Bogdanovich's valentine to the silent film directors and stars that he knew.
What Price Hollywood, A Star is Born with Janet Gaynor and
A Star is Born with Judy Garland.
Sunset Blvd, SOB also And Starring Pancho Villa as Himself.
Finally and most especially Kevin Brownlow's wonderful documentary Hollywood.
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I would hope this wouldn't discourage you from the boards or classic films. It's a wonderful topic and you did nothing wrong - please continue your enlightening posts and participation on the board. This should be an "inclusive" site for everyone to enjoy not an "exclusive" site for only long-time posters. >>
Very well said, mythoughts. I, too, hope that newclassic comes back and continues to post to the board.
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Well, you're right, it isn't always easy to take the less popular stance.
But sometimes it just sorta comes naturally!
>>But, sometimes, there is a fine line between taking an unpopular stance and continuing to bait other posters (even if you use smiley faces) because they don't agree with you.
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I am referring more to the "I hate this actor/film/genre/director/producer..." kind of stuff that has absolutely nothing constructive to say.>>
I tend to avoid reading them. Sometimes I will quickly browse just to get a feel for the thread but over the years here, there are just some threads that aren't of interest to me.
Luckily, there are many more that are.
As for the negativity threads, they will always, in varying degrees, be a part of this message board.
Sometimes taking a stand on a negativity thread is worth it. There were a few last year that I was glad I stood up and took the unpopular stance. But with any luck we won't have those type threads this year.
You have to decide which battles to fight and which ones to let go. Not every thread has to be responded to.
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Sorry I don't think I've ever associated "Joe Six-pack" with any stereotype, just another way of saying "average Joe", or someone who watches even classic movies the same way they'd watch Spider-Man 2.>>
Which is fine. However your posts often seem to convey that you find this objectionable.
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I don't know if it's always been there but I do think there's been a great deal of negativism in the boards lately, and a lot of it is started by posters who (oddly enough) have just registered... coincidence? I don't know but it just seems mighty odd. >>
It's always been here. Last year at this time we started debating the negative topics almost from the first of January until the end of the Oscar Salute in March. I don't think a month went by last year that it didn't come up.
This year, so far, there seems to be less negativity.
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So why can't they just watch the ones that make them happy, and let others enjoy the movies they don't like?>>
Because its a message board and people like to talk with others about the films they are watching. Many folks have been here long enough that this has become a community to them. They sometimes watch a film for the first time not knowing if they are going to like or not, but do so because someone here they respect suggested that it might be worthwhile. Often they like the film, sometimes they don't.
Sometimes they will post that they watched a film and just don't understand why the film is so beloved. So others respond and tell them why. Sometimes they end up agreeing to watch the film again and give it another try and sometimes they aren't swayed.
I can't possibly do a good job of explaining this unless I should spend 90 minutes to 2 hours writing a carefully thought-out essay -- which in the world of bulletin boards is simply stupid to even consider. So I just point the way to another essay that's already been written, and that probably makes a lot of points that would in any event be somewhat similar to what I would write.>>
Some folks will read it and learn from it. Others will be left wanting to know why you like this film so much. It doesn't have to be long, eloquent or even well written as long as i comes from your heart.
I have, and time and time again it all comes down to the same thing on the boards -- "Bwaaaaaaa I don't like this! I don't like that!!! Mommy make TCM show me what I do like!".>>
It's the nature of this message board, I'm afraid.
Oh and how do you differentiate between calling the average person a "Joe Six-pack" and your simply saying they are non-buffs/non-professionals?>>
Joe Six Pack, to me at least, has a sterotypical connotation and I don't consider the folks here to be that sterotype.
They are people who like classic, studio era films, just not all of them.
They are people who like film from all decades and all genres.
They are people who have immersed themselves in film all their lives and they are people who have immersed themselves in other careers and professions.
They are retired, working, in college, unemployed, single, married, divorced, widowed, straight, gay, in short they are people who all share a common interest in film.
Message was edited by:
lzcutter hoping that by putting it in bold it won't look like one long run-on sentence.
Message was edited by:
lzcutter
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We've already lost possibly half of all pre-1950 movies to the ravages of time, so every single film that is left is absolutely priceless!!! >>
Yes, it is a crime that so much of our film history has been lost to the ravages of time. Every film deserves to be saved, the good and the bad.
<>
But the posters here have found something that makes them happy, classic films. They enjoy many of them and some of them they find dull as dishwater.
That doesn't make them wrong.
They appreciate (and not) films differently than you do.
Many people find Citizen Kane to be boring and don't understand why so many critics and film buffs call it the best film ever made.
Try to understand where they are coming from and instead of berating them, tell them what it is about Kane that you (not Roger Ebert) love.
Try sharing your enthusiasm for a film with them instead of calling them Joe Six Pack and beating them up because they aren't on the same wavelength as you.
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How about this...
"you take the blonde I'll take the one in the turban.....grooowwwfff">>
Cheyanne,
That would be Igor (long I) to Victor Frankenstein in Young Frankenstein.
One of my favorites.
You have a Private Message by the way.
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Jack Cardiff, James Wong Howe, Gregg Toland, Stanley Cortez, Gordon Willis, Sven Nykvist, William Daniels, Vilmos Zsigmund and Dante Spinotti (The Last of the Mohicans).
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Because there's a lot of times when I think I've heard just about everything when someone new comes in with some variation of the old whine...
I hate this movie/actor/actress/director/genre/TCM/the programmers>>
Unfortunately, the longer you post here the more you have to get used to that whine and learn to tell the difference between a whiner and someone that is genuinely interested in the thread topic they started or are responding to.
Stifling their interest serves no purpose.
<>
Yes, it does, but it is a topic that gets discussed here almost every week of every year. It's been a topic of discussion since I got here back in around 2003 or 04 (my later registration date is the victim of software glitches that occured here back in early 05. The bug was quickly corrected but left some of us with new registration dates). I suspect it has been a topic around here even in the early days when Mongo and others first initiated this board.
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The majority of posters here do appreciate the classic films but not on the level you do. That doesn't make them wrong and to make them feel that way makes them feel stupid and inferior.
They appreciate the films for different reasons than you do but they still appreciate them. You feel that every film ever made has some merit. You are to be commended for that attitude.
But not everyone shares your enthusiasm and knowledge on every film. But these posters are to be appreciated because there are times when they look at films and see things that you might not have considered.
Knowledge is a two street and many of the posters here are willing to share if you would but take the time to listen.
Many of them have been here many years and some just a few. You, yourself, are a relatively new poster.
The majority of people who post here are good folks and they are smart, maybe not in films and film history, but they are smart.
Give them a chance to share their insights with you instead of always jumping to the conclusion that just because they don't like a classic film that makes them somehow less intelligent or a troll.
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It is the classic-film equivalent of the trolls who show up at Star Trek, LOTR or SW forums only to say how horrible those movies/TV series are, and how everyone who likes them is a loser>>
But he didn't call anyone a loser for liking the films. He posted that he himself was disappointed in them and why.
Jumping on relatively new posters for posting subjects you don't agree with is only going to run more new people away.
Not everyone watches films the way the way that people who live and breathe film do. You are to be commended for your knowledge of film history and films.
But berating other people because they don't look at films from all the angles you do is not helping them to appreciate those films. It is causing them to feel unwelcome here and have second thoughts about posting here.
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The Encore Western channel does get some good westerns and some good documentaries.
However, they too often show pan and scan versions of films that should be seen in letterboxed format.
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Who says TCM Programmr doesn't listen to us. Upcoming films that posters have been clamoring for:
The Missouri Breaks (movielover11 should be in heaven with this one, The Men, Streetcar and Waterfront).
Audie Murphy fans alert The Quiet American
Spaghetti Western fans: My Name is Nobody
And English mystery fans: Some Miss Marples
And a collection of short films!
Plus the Brando docu (the reason there is no time listed is they likely don't have a complete running time yet), the Cannes Film Festival doc, Hepburn and Wayne as Stars of the Month and Olivier remembered too.
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Was nitrate film recycled?
in Information, Please!
Posted
Cinesage,
Thanks for the correction on that! I appreciate it!
On a side note, do you know if the new Billy Wilder theater in Westwood will be able to project nitrate? If so, I'm thinking it will be a new fangled 35mm projector and not an old carbon arc.
But maybe not?