lzcutter
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Posts posted by lzcutter
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FredC,
Thanks for the screen cap of Mary Jane Edwards' grave marker.
As it describes her as a "good wife and mother", I think that indicates that she was Ethan and Aaron's mother.
I don't think the math works out to have her be their sister and still be a "good mother".
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> Leslie Halliwell summed it up best in his Filmgoer's Companion. "On it's original release this film about the resettlement of ex-servicemen in a small American town seemed like an enduring classic. A generation later the mood of the time was impossible to recapture and much of the film seemed humdrum."
A generation later we were in the midst of a war that was the complete opposite of WWII. As one who lived through that era, it felt like light years away from the country's reaction to WWII. That had more to do with the circumstances of the war as well as the era.
It took us as a country many years to move beyond the fallout from that war.
But even then, the universal theme of sacrifice that is at the heart of BYOOTL was still there even if we (the country at large) didn't always recognize it or always apply that theme to those returning from the war the way we (again the universal we) should have.
Since then, a valuable lesson was learned that the theme of sacrifice should apply to all returning vets.
But it is up to us as a people to realize that.
Edited by: lzcutter on Aug 4, 2012 9:46 PM
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How about one of your favorite films, *Somewhere in Time* ?
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> I don't get what you're driving at?
My original reply was to filmlover. He wrote that his posts were delayed in posting and he thought he might be on moderated status.
My original reply to him as that Michael probably would have let him know if he was being moderated and the delay he was experiencing was likely due to the technical bug that has been plaguing this board for the last week.
>filmlover,
>I think Michael would let you know if you were on the moderation list.
> As for the delay, there's a bug in the system that is causing non-moderated posts to be delayed and it is taking time for them to show up in the threads.
> There's posts about it in the Tech forum and there's a post from Michael about it in the Announcements forum.
>It's been happening off and on now for about a week or so.
You then replied with this:
> I'm not talking about the technical delay...I'm talking about posts being moderated and not showing up for hours at a time. The technical delay is only a few minutes.
The bottom line is I'm not questioning that your posts are being delayed because you are on moderated status.
My responses from the beginning have been about the technical delay that those of us not on moderated status are experiencing. And that delay is can be up to ten to fifteen minutes today.
But your responses seem to question that I don't know that or I am questioning that.
I am very aware that they are two different things. I was only trying to assure filmlover that the delay he was having in posting was a problem that many of us are having and is not related to him being on moderated status.
Edited by: lzcutter on Aug 4, 2012 4:02 PM
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There's some sort of technical bug that is causing a delay in posts appearing.
There's a post from the WebAdmin about it in the Announcements forum.
He's also posted that TCM Web is aware of the problem and working on solving it.
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> THINK we'll ever see these films on TCM? Have we seen these films on TCM?
Yes, many of the silents and classic era films featured in both the book and the documentary from the book have aired on TCM, unedited.
The summer of 2007, as part of their *Race and Hollywood* series, TCM spotlighted *Screened Out: Gay Images in Films* and ran films twice a week.
June 4th, 2007:
5:00 PM Algie, the Miner ('12)
5:30 PM The Monster ('25)
7:15 PM Exit Smiling ('26)
8:45 PM The Broadway Melody ('29)
10:45 PM Way Out West ('30)
12:00 AM The Office Wife ('30)
1:15 AM Stage Mother ('33)
June 6th, 2007:
5:00 PM The Sign of the Cross ('32)
7:15 PM Our Betters ('33)
8:45 PM Double Harness ('33)
10:00 PM Queen Christina ('33)
11:45 PM Wonder Bar ('34)
1:15 AM The Sport Parade ('32)
June 11th, 2007:
5:00 PM Hell's Highway ('32)
6:15 PM Ladies They Talk About ('33)
7:30 PM Caged ('50)
9:15 PM So Young, So Bad ('50)
11:00 PM The Strange One ('57)
1:00 AM Women's Prison ('55)
June 13th, 2007:
5:00 PM The Big Combo ('55)
7:00 PM Suddenly, Last Summer ('59)
9:00 PM Reflections in a Golden Eye ('67)
11:00 PM Gilda ('46)
1:00 AM The Maltese Falcon ('41)
June 18th, 2007:
5:00 PM The Uninvited ('44)
7:00 PM The Picture of Dorian Gray ('45)
9:00 PM Voodoo Island ('57)
10:30 PM The Haunting ('63)
12:30 AM The Seventh Victim ('43)
June 20th, 2007:
5:00 PM Manhattan Parade ('31)
6:30 PM Sylvia Scarlett ('36)
8:15 PM Turnabout ('40)
9:45 PM That Touch of Mink ('62)
11:30 PM The Producers ('68)
1:00 AM Designing Woman ('57)
June 25th, 2007:
5:00 PM Tea and Sympathy ('56)
7:15 PM Advise and Consent ('62)
9:45 PM The Children's Hour ('61)
11:45 PM Walk on the Wild Side ('62)
2:45 AM Victim ('61)
June 27th, 2007:
5:00 PM Staircase ('69)
7:00 PM The Fox ('67)
9:00 PM The Boys in the Band ('70)
11:15 PM The Killing of Sister George ('68)
The co-host was author Richard Barrios.
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> I'm not talking about the technical delay...I'm talking about posts being moderated and not showing up for hours at a time. The technical delay is only a few minutes.
And I wasn't talking about moderated posts, I was talking about the technical problem that is causing delays in regular posts posting to threads.
That's why I used the word *non-moderated* in my reply (which you quoted) to filmlover:
"As for the delay, there's a bug in the system that is causing *non-moderated* (emphasis added) posts to be delayed and it is taking time for them to show up in the threads."
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> krieger, I must be on the same list. I post and it doesn't show until sometime later.
filmlover,
I think Michael would let you know if you were on the moderation list.
As for the delay, there's a bug in the system that is causing non-moderated posts to be delayed and it is taking time for them to show up in the threads.
There's posts about it in the Tech forum and there's a post from Michael about it in the Announcements forum.
It's been happening off and on now for about a week or so.
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> Am I on the right track?
Star,
You are indeed. When the film was first released most critics didn't pick up on the back story between Ethan and Martha. But, as we Ford lovers have discovered, Ford often layered the back story into his films but it can take multiple viewings for the depth of the stories to reveal themselves.
Each time we watch *Liberty Valance*, *Yellow Ribbon*, *Stagecoach*, *They Were Expendable* and other films, we find other layers to peel away.
That's one of the joys of watching Ford films. You can watch them over and over and still discover little gems within the stories.
I think Martha and Ethan were sweethearts years ago before the film starts. He left and Martha was heartbroken. Aaron was there, probably being helpful, attentive, taking care of the land and those homesteading it (The headstone in the cemetery that Debbie hides next to is for Ethan and Aaron's mother, who was killed by marauding Comanches when she was 41).
With no word or letters from Ethan, she probably realized that he wasn't coming back and so she chose to settle down with Aaron despite the fact that still loved Ethan.
She buried those feelings for Ethan deep inside of her and set about making a life with Aaron. Ethan returned at some point when Lucy was just a small girl. He and Martha probably realized on that trip that they still had feelings. Rather than act on them, he went off to the War.
When he returns this time, they do a good job of keeping those feelings buried. But you can see that they still care about each other, especially the look on Martha's face when Ethan kisses her forehead and the care she gives his fancy, Johnny Reb coat when Clayton comes to get him for the posse.
The song that plays over the opening and during the scene with Martha and the coat is an old folk tune called Lorena. It was a favorite of Confederate soldiers and tells the story of a man who still longs for his dead wife.
Ward Bond tries to steal the scene by making the Reverend so uncomfortable but your eyes stay on Martha as she realizes that yet again, she must let Ethan go.
PS- Thank you for the kind words. I do appreciate it.
PPS- I've long wondered if Lucy is really Ethan and Martha's child but Ethan left before he knew Martha was pregnant. Left alone and with a child on the way, she turned to Aaron who had long cared for Martha but had been overshadowed by his brother.
Here's a link to a thread where we had a lively discussion about speculating about various pieces of the back story:
http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?threadID=125066&tstart=0&messageID=8069511#8069511
Edited by: lzcutter on Aug 3, 2012 7:21 PM
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Roy,
I love this film! It's one of my favorite gangster films. I was fortunate enough to see the original director's cut before Warners pulled the film and tried, what was it, two or three different recuts.
As I recall, there was the original director's cut which ran 269 minutes and became known as the European version because (like *The Wild Bunch's* original cut) it only played in Europe.
The original US cut which ran 229 minutes.
One official recut included putting all the scenes in chronological order which all but destroyed the story that Leone was trying to tell and cut the running time to 139 minutes (shades of *Heaven's Gate* ).
The outcry, as I recall, from the artistic community was big. I remember Sheila Benson, then critic for the LA Times calling this recut of the film the worst film of the year.
It took about six years for the original US cut to be re-released and released on VHS.
The film debuted at Cannes in 2010 with more footage restored and a running time of 245 minutes.
The Film Foundation is said to be working with Leone's children on restoring the film to Leone's original cut.
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> I had Rio Bravo on in the background today, and I noticed that nothing much happened in it.
FredC,
A lot actually happens in this movie:
A man (John T. Chance) refuses, despite the opinion of the majority around him, to give up on his friend.
A man (Dude), who years before climbed deep into a bottle, finds redemption with the support of friends.
Two men (Dude and John T. Chance) discover that those you side with (Stumpy, Colorado and Feathers) can certainly surprise you and even save your life when needed.
A town is saved from being turned over to a wealthy, corrupt, power-hungry land baron (Nathan Burnett) by three misfits (Dude, John T. Chance and Stumpy) and their small group of friends (Feathers, Colorado and the hotel owner and his wife).
A murderer, Joe Burnett, is brought to justice.
And a town learns a valuable lesson about good vs evil, the law and friendship by the time the fadeout happens.
But, it's more a character study (albeit with lot of good humor) than more dramatic westerns.
Howard Hawks wanted Elvis for the role of Colorado but the US government and Col. Tom Parker had other plans for the young singer.
Dean Martin was playing Las Vegas when he got the call to be at Hawks' office next morning. He chartered a plane after the late show (they typically ended about 1:30 am) to fly back to Los Angeles and showed up on time for the interview.
The original outfit Martin picked out for Dude was your typical celluloid cowboy type. Hawks reminded him that Dude was a drunk who had been on a bender for a few years.
Martin listened to what Hawks had said and went back to wardrobe.
He returned to Hawks office in the outfit that he wore in the movie. According to Angie Dickinson, Martin wore the outfit everyday he was on the set and it wasn't washed until Martin finished all the scenes he wore the outfit in.
I'm sorry you didn't like the movie. I find it one of the most fun (and enjoyable) films Hawks made with Wayne.
As always, your mileage may vary, as I like to say.
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Screenplay writer and playwright Gore Vidal has died:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Gore-Vidal-celebrated-author-playwright-dies-3752123.php
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> That is not true.
Then your "man" must be posting in your absence.
Here's a link to the thread from 2009 when either you or your ",man" were having posting problems.
http://forums.tcm.com/thread.jspa?messageID=8300989
> With all my double posts, I would have about 40,000 if that were true.
Fortunately for all of us, TCM Web ultimately took care of that posting problem.
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Joe,
Thanks for spotlighting France Nuyen in your birthday roll call. I really enjoyed her on St. Elsewhere back in the 1980s.
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Star,
Did you know that RG was good friends with James Coburn? Later in his life, Coburn suffered from crippling arthritis. He credited RG with helping him overcome the extreme effects of the disease and helping get back on his feet and back to work.
Here's a link to an interview where he credits Armstrong with saving his life:
http://thehollywoodinterview.blogspot.com/2008/02/james-coburn-hollywood-interview.html
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There's a forum about the TCM Cruise here and includes recaps and lots more information:
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> It's the director's job to create a finished product through the process of editing, making choices, establishing his vision in a final statement - whatever considerations need to be made. Once the film is settled upon as that which will be seen in theaters by the masses, that's the movie forevermore
And what happens when a film is released and the studio makes cuts to it after the official original release?
There were multiple studio releases of *Heaven's Gate*, *Blade Runner*, *Once Upon a Time in America*, *Brazil* among others.
Or what happens when film makers like George Lucas continue to make changes to their films thirty five years after their release? The original versions of the original *Star Wars* trilogies are no longer available to cable stations for rental/lease because Lucas continues to make changes to those films and the original releases are no longer available.
All any one is asking that you post descriptions of the scenes you feel were deleted from the broadcast versions of films TCM aired.
That doesn't make you or the OP a TCM apologist. That makes you concerned viewers.
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> dark blue wrote: There must be a manner of ensuring such quality control if you're in the business of knowing movies and showing movies
Part of the problem is the films themselves. Many pre-codes were cut after the Production code took affect in 1934. It's possible that the cut versions are all that are available when TCM makes the rental/lease deal.
Warner Archives has a year-long moratorium on their selections before they can appear on TCM which means that if there is a restored version available thru Warner Archives, depending upon it's DVD release date, it may not yet be available to TCM.
Many films were edited when film packages were sold to television channels back in the 1950s and depending on the film, not all of those films have had all of their footage restored yet. The print of *Marty* that circulated on TCM a few years ago was missing a crucial scene between Betsy Blair and her parents after she returned from meeting Marty.
A keen eyed poster posted here about it (and may have contacted TCM directly, it's been a few years). That spurred TCM to look into the matter and now they broadcast the more complete version.
Other circumstances include studios recalling films after their initial release and recutting them. This happened often in the late 1960s with films that had overly sexual or violent content that critics responded to. So, it's possible if you saw a film on its initial release and its missing scenes, that may be why. The recut version may be all that remains or the studio may have shelved the original version and it's not available for rental/lease.
So, if you (darkblue and the original OP) feel that TCM has aired a film that is missing scenes, you can contact them via email, snail mail or post about it.
Be aware, as we have seen here often, posters often remember scenes from films that were never there in the first place.
Your mileage, as always, may vary.
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There was also a long stretch a few years ago when his posts would double post to the board. Those all counted towards his post count despite the fact they were duplicates.
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> It's an MGM film so you would assume that it is in the Turner Library and available for airing.
It might be worth remembering that just because a film exists in the former Turner Library that Warner Bros now controls, a digital print of that film may not yet be available for Warner Bros to rent to TCM.
WBros has a large catalog of films in their library and I believe that George Feltenstein has said in interviews that it will take time for that to happen.
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It sounds like *Johnny Belinda* starring Jane Wyman as the girl and Lew Ayres as the doctor who befriends her.
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That's Buster Keaton in the pork pie hat next to Peter Lorre.
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Or the original *Outward Bound*.
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> I don't know anything about TNT,and TBS never watch them,but are you sure that AMC upconverts all its programming??
Up until at least last year they were.
With the success of their original programming, they may have bitten the bullet and gone to true HD in the last year.
TCM. NEED YOUR HELP
in General Discussions
Posted
It looks like actor Eric Roberts when he was much younger.