movieman1957

I don't remember exactly how long it is but the scene must run somewhere around 8 minutes. It looks like part of it is improvised. The dialogue hesitates a little and the business with the cigars help it seem oh so natural. It's great. I don't remember what they talk about but it may not be important. This all came to me when I watched one scene from "Lord of The Rings" and it was just two people talking and over three minutes or so there must have been 15 to 20 cuts. There was a two shot, a profile two shot, alternate shots of each actor, back to a two shot, etc. It got to be quite annoying. I thought just put the camera in front of them and be still.

Even in *Two Rode Together* one of my favorite scenes happens early when Stewart and Widmark sit down at the side of the river and do their thing. Ford puts the camera in the river and just watched them. No cuts, no pans no movement. You just get to watch two great actors at work. I thought new directors should watch that scene so they know you don't have to cut a shot just for the sake of doing a cut.

Kathy: I'm glad I could help. I often wonder if what I say makes sense to anyone else. The only thing I might add is "The Horse Soldiers" doesn't figure much like "GWTW." Towers character has a large house and there is an important early scene there once they leave they are pretty much gone. It then becomes a kind of character study of Wayne/Holden and Wayne/Towers. She comes to see how the war affects the soldiers and the tragedy rather than any glory of it.

While you make a good point and this is certainly a day to be remembered TCM, I think, covered similar territory on Veteran's Day. They also do a first class job on Memorial Day.

Civil War films are a rather small group. I find that films (and maybe some of the history) treat individuals differently than armies. Clearly each side is out to destroy the other. Not only for the purpose of the war but the quicker they win it the sooner they get to go home. The films follow mostly three avenues. They follow a group of soldiers that could be from either side. I think "Red Badge of Courage" and "Glory" might be good examples. A popular model is a family caught in the war. "Shenandoah" and "Friendly Persuasion" and even "Gone With The Wind" go there. And sometimes they are where the war just ended and dealing with soldiers readjustments. "Rio Lobo" is a film where soldiers of both sides come together after the war to recover a stolen gold shipment as I recall. Few deal with the true carnage of the war. "Andersonville" which was fine TV film deals with the horror of POW camps. "Glory" also hits that spot. In that sense I don't think "The Horse Soldiers" is all that different on its basic story. It follows a group of soldiers deep in enemy territory with a nearly impossible job. I do think the scene where they have the battle in the street and its aftermath make good use of the open charges that accompanied some of these battles. Also, the scene following it where they have Southern captives and some of them start talking and Holden, maybe, knows one of their officers and tries to engage in a conversation with him. That is when the enemy becomes real and for a moment they are people not soldiers. You might recall the opening scene of "Dances With Wolves" had the scene where both sides are trying to capture the cow and for a moment there is a good natured competition between them. It is short lived. For a good representation of the battle and both sides view check out "Gettysburg." Some find it stilted dialogue but I think it a reflection of the way they spoke. The action scenes are intense and fill you with a sense of the human cost and waste of these battles. It was an ugly and devastating war. The most costly happened less than an hour from my home and having visited Antietam it was indeed an awful day.

One thing I took away from watching each team was their on screen relationship. They were, to me, quite different. This may have had to do with their off screen relationship but not so sure. L&H despite their frustrations with each others characters were always loyal and best pals.Hardy would boil to the point where you would think he couldn't stand another minute with Laurel but he knew that he was his most loyal friend. They were often more loyal to each other than to their movie wives. The depth of the friendship adds humor because nothing will separate them. Off screen they were good friends. Stan did most of the work. Ollie played golf. That arrangement suited them both. A&C always struck me, funny as they were, as being together out of necessity, Their loyalty seemed born out of need more than desire. If it makes sense Abbott put up with Costello. Their wasn't the underlying love that L&H shared. My understanding was A&C were not that close and at one time had a big falling out. I saw a "This Is Your Life" episode for Lou where Bud came on as a guest. He came out just like any old high school friend would have. It must have hurt Bud since he was such a big part of Lou's career to be treated in such a mediocre way. Bud even acknowledged a problem between them, hoped it was over and was shuttled off to the couch. Too bad. Of the two I much prefer L&H.

In case you can't see me I am bowing before you as I am not worthy. This is deep insightful prose you have written and is as good as anything you have shared. If I may attempt a couple of things to add (or subtract as the case may be) - Constance Towers as her goofy Scarlett, for me, is mocking the group at her home. I think she does this out of contempt and out of an attempt to make them think her stupid to later listen in on their meeting. Her dress and attitude comes fully from knowing they haven't seen a woman and plans to be as much a distraction as she can. Later, as you so eloquently point out, she comes around not only to Wayne but also to see more clearly the situation that has gone on around her for too long. Holden was perfect for the part. No one may have played cynical like Holden and he does it well for the entire film. He probably is to be the reasonable one in all this by pointing out the futility of what goes on and the frustration that his profession is being used in this way. (It reminds me of the doctor in "Kwai" saying "Madness" at the end of that movie. Maybe that movie helped Holden get this part.) I have no idea how Wayne and Holden got along off screen but there is plenty of tension on it. I like your idea on the skirmishes of the battles. So many were so futile and so devastating. By near the end of the war (as most losing sides have done) they collect the youngest ones out of desperation. The scene you comment on where they spank the boy I think speaks to soldiers weren't always soldiers. It wasn't always about doing away with the enemy. The fact that these were two groups from the same country fighting each other may also lend weight to Wayne's attitude. How pointless it must have seemed to some. But even in the war their is honor among the enemies. They, at times, treat each other with honor and respect and if they find out they had something in common then they forgot who they were for a time. That is part of what makes that war so fascinating. "The Horse Soldiers" is not high art but a pretty good film. There are many typically Ford themes and it is easy to see it is one of his films. Not nearly so eloquent but I thought I'd share a few things. Now if I get to watch it again....

April: I saw your post on "The Horse Soldiers" but haven't the time to read it. Will check it out later. Me

HEADS UP Sunday Dec 7 at 6:45pm Encore's Western channel is showing "Wesbound" with Randolph Scott. It is the one that is always missing from the Boetticher/Scott showings.

At least they are synchronized.

Lynn: I typed it in the data base search and it doesn't show being listed. I think the programmer was trying to get it but I guess it didn't work. I've thought it odd since, I believe, it is an RKO film.

> {quote:title=ILoveRayMilland wrote:}{quote} > That is funny! Most people seem to completely forget about *"Holiday Inn"* , it's most annoying. Was it Bing singing it at the piano? Yes.

I noticed a mistake on NBC last night when they were promoting a special on Holdiay Moments (or something close) where they will be showing favorite moments from movies and I think TV shows. They showed a clip and mentioned it as being from "White Christmas" but it is really a clip from "Holiday Inn" with Bing singing "White Christmas." A big clue was the clip was black and white but it's funny they couldn't get that right.

It's not a rant. It's a fine thing that you can share something like this with us. You will be in my prayers as you go through this tough time. You check in when you can. If we can't be a refuge from the trials of this life then we are of little use. This is a great group and you will get as much support as you need. Take care of your mom but please take care of yourself. All the best Chris

Nothing that has caught my attention yet. They don't go backe like TCM but they will have things back to the 60s. Once in awhile a little farther back but not too far. The good thing is that more often they are showing things in widescreen.

Encore Mysteries? Not in some time. Once upon a time they played several of the "Prime Suspect" movies and "The Avengers" TV show (B&W pre Diana Rigg version.) Plenty of other stuff. Not much anymore. It seems to be part of the package I have that gives me Indiplex and Retroplex. Also Enocre has the best On Demand selection of any channel on my TV.

"One good swing of an ax and you can split a brain too. No doctor should be without one."

April: The worst abuse of previews is on USA network. (In know we're talking premium vs. commercial TV) but we are big fans of "NCIS" and the rerums are constantly being filled with promos for "The Starter WIfe." It is so often and so obnoxious that they couldn't pay me to watch that show. I don't care if it is good they have burned me out just from the promos. Now, back to talk about westerns.

I watched the documentary that came with the DVD and the cop that Tennison is based on told her to never let them see you cry. She meant if the men saw her she would be considered too soft and by extension not worth being the boss. That carried over to everything. BTW, thanks for the pictures.

>all in all did you like it? what was your view on the relationship between helen and the girl? I did like it. Everyone's life is so complicated and sad. For all the hard work Tennison did and success she was able to attain she is ultimately pretty unhappy. She feels guilt. She feels bad about her dad, nieces and sister and I think the way things turned out. She was always a drinker of sorts but I think this all dove her to the degree she went. She is old (retiring) and alone. I think the relationship with the young girl grows out of a respect for the girl initially and I think her own child would have been about her age if she had kept it. The girl is filling a void. Jane made choices. To not keep the baby was one. She presents it matter-of-factly but I donn't think she feels that way. It was a very well done show, as are they all. She is a great character. Too bad it couldn't have ended a little happier for her.

Not that one. I did see one a year or two ago where Albert Finney played Churchill. That was pretty good. It is more about him and his family but Finney is terrific. Caine as Stalin? Wow. ("When Lions Roared" is the name.)

History and Geography were as good as lunch for me. I did very well in Civics, which I think they now call just U.S. Gov't, and very well in U.S. History as well. If you want a good WWII documentary that is more of a straight educational type check out "The World At War." It is long, about 22 hours. It is made by the British so it id from their point more than ours. It dates from 1970 and what makes it interesting is that nearly everyone they interview was involved. US governement officials to German infaantry soldiers to Japanese pilots. It is very interesting. I caught some of Burns special when it was on last year adn while I found it interesting it wasn't the approach I was looking for so I didn't stick with it.

You make a good point about her drinking becoming a larger part of her life. Since it happened after the girls showed up (or at least when I noticed it) I put it more to her frustration with Spig but, yeah, it would have been a factor. What's up next?

I haven't seen "Cheyenne" in a long time so I look forward to that. I didn't so little of "The Rifleman" was on DVD. I think they just played it to death. They must have come full circle. I'll bet it will be back on again.

April: That figures. I looked through pages of both "Ramble" threads and this one before I went. The search didn't even help. I would agree with the scene where they lose their son coming at a point where he is still having some fun, so to speak. What gets though is nothing more is made of it. I didn't expect it to be a burden in the film but if it was that important it would seem to come up again. It just struck me odd how quicky it came and how seemingly unimportant it was in the rest of the film. I think Ford is at aleast being realistic about the ambivalence you speak of. It was obviously an important part of his life but after all it is a huge bureauocracy so things don't always make sense. Thanks for letting me dredge it up again.