movieman1957

>The trick is, you have to listen. So what does your current top ten favorite westerns list look like? Hiya "Frankie" Listening all the time. My list this week includes - 1. "The Big Country." 2. "Westward The Women" 3. "The Searchers" 4. "Winchester '73" 5. "Silverado" 6. "The Tin Star" 7. "Red River." 8. "7 Men From Now." 9. "The Man From Laramie." 10. "She Wore A Yellow Ribbon." Subject to change by whatever I watch this week. (What does that say that I have more Mann the Ford fims?) And yours?

April: *SPOILER TOO* Jean's accent doesn't bother me as the west was full of immigrants and I just take it that she still had the family trait. Although when she mentions the King of Spain gave the land to her grandfather (or great grandfather) that is a different stroke. She and Peck do make a nice couple. They are more natural with each other, to me, than he was with Baker. One thing I think is good is that Heston's attitude towards Peck changes after their "meeting." Though Heston tries to Bickford out of the what he wants to do he still can't stop himself from accompanying Bickford. You're probably right about Baker as everything she wants out of Peck seems to already be part of Heston. Also a shout out to "Ramon." (Alfonso Bedoya.)

April: Since you brought it up what is your opinion of "The Big Country"? I saw it on our local PBS station Saturday even though I have the DVD. I like it. It's big, it's sprawling and I think it's a pretty good story. Grant you, there are enough sotry lines for three movies but they are pretty well together. Peck's character is a strong man in that he won't alter his way of thinking to serve other people's interest. He may wind up doing what they want (ride the wild horse, fight Heston) but he is going to do it on his terms. Really good cast. Ives, Bickford, Baker, Simmons, Connors (surprisingly nasty) in addition to Heston and Peck make it worth the time. The only drawback for me is that Baker disappears too suddenly. She and Peck break up and she's gone. The film is helped by good locations and still memorable music score. It's a BIG movie. Chris

>"Laid-back"? So that's what we are. So can "laid-back" guys run at the mouth? Actually, I am on the laid-back side... and the talkative side. Laid back guys can run at the mouth but we have to be good in what we say lest others think us boring. Talk away.

Claudette was starring with Rex Harrison in the "The Fisher King." I can hardly remember anything about it but it might have been one of those late life romances. I was too busy being mesmerized to notice much about the play. I'm thinking how cool it was that I was seeing them in person.

It technically doesn't count but Claudette came out of retirement (for a film project) to do "The Two Mrs. Grenvilles" for TV. (1987) I've mentioned it before but I saw her on stage in the early 80s. What a treat.

> I once watched the Quiet Man (which I do like) in a hotel room with a bunch of filmmakers on location (who had never seen it before) and they ripped it to shreds! I recall the comment, "Everything's a medium shot!" No wonder. Look at the mess most of the current directors turn out. It's not always about the most fun camera angles. Sometimes script and acting and a good story help. They would do well to learn that lesson. "How Green Was My Valley" is a terrific film. A fine drama with great performances.

>Have I mentioned that I'm boring? I'm also quite individualistic. I never really cared what the "crowd" was doing or what was seen as accepted by society. I still don't. I don't mind being the only one, even if it means I'm the lonely one. Well, here I thought I was the only one like that. Boring? I think I'm part of the club too. Although to put a positive spin on it I'd say we were "laid back." Your dull and sober friend, Chris

I think Wayne became a better actor handling much more complex characters, at least in his westerns. Maybe that is the process of getting older and more experienced. For me in "Stagecoach" you get a good hearted guy with a past. A good character but he doesn't seem overly complex. You can almost dismiss, I think, his role in "The Long Voyage Home" as, I remember, it was mostly a minor part. "They Were Expendable" gives him some weight but he is not really placed as the star, at least not more important than Montgomery. Through the trilogy Wayne gets more complicated. He has more issues in his character's life. More complex relationships. Wayne/Fonda. Wayne/O'Hara. Wayne vs. himself in "Yellow Ribbon." Of course, by the time we hit "The Searchers" Ethan is probably a psychiatrist's dream or nightmare depending on your outlook. ("The Horse Soldiers" doesn't really advance anything character-wise.) "Liberty Valance", well you've covered that. The non-westerns were certainly more relaxed, maybe fun. For the underlying theme of "The Quiet Man" it is, or seems, a fun film. "Donovan's Reef" is straight fun. I haven't seen "The Wings of Eagles" in some time but I know Ford poked a little fun at himself before the film got into the meat of the story. Theirs was a complicated relationship I think. Ford was a mentor. I gather he was also a bit of a father figure. He could be really cruel but off the set they enjoyed each other and I think on the set they came to trust each other. Trust lets you do a lot of things. I hope that is close enough to what you were looking for Lynn.

An educational series provided by Kyle on the heels of the one provided by Lynn, this is too good.

If I could quit dreaming I might get a decent night's sleep. They are just plain stupid.

Gee, for not having anything to add you sure added plenty. No more nonsense about what you think you don't know. I knew you'd seen too many movies not to have something grand to say. Thanks for writing it.

We don't have to. I almost forgot about Costner since it was made close to the same time as "Tombstone." You can substitute "Hour Of The Gun" or any of the other many films. Too bad Cooper didn't do Earp.

>I named my car Muskrat Suzie The group America also had a hit with it too. The question is now where is Muskrat Sam?

It's very kind of you to say. I'm not sure I had the myth pegged like Lynn wants it but it is what I thought about it. The myth could be the overall myth of the history of the west. That might be a little harder to hit for those of us not so well educated with its actual history. Earp is a character who, though real, has reached a certain level in the conciousness of people that may be more than what he was. He is a legend. Is it warranted to this degree? Maybe but often the truth lies somewhere in between. (Mind you, I'm not saying anything against Earp. I don't know his history well enough. He's just the example.) Is Ford's treatment of the Cavalry myth? Community? Family? Maybe that is more Lynn's point. An interesting thing to do, since we are talking about "Clementine", would be to watch it and "Gunfight At The OK Corral," Costner's "Wyatt Earp" and "Tombstone" and discuss the differences with each film and whatt we know of the history. I don't know.

April: "Stalking Moon" is kind of a remake of "Trooper Hook." Ben mentions it in his post film notes on the recent broadcast. He at least implies a remake as he says that we liked "Hook" then we should check out "Moon." Just something to keep in mind as you watch them. Chris

The most interesting aspect of the myth is in the presentation. In "Liberty Valance" it is told in a series of flashbacks. In "Ft. Apache" the myth comes at the end and the very end at that. Both cases take a situation and basically lie about it. The idea is then to perpetuate the lie. I would imagine the myth would be to take something that someone did and then elevate its importance or impact or the more it is told some more gets added on but in both cases the events have been twisted especially in "Valance." Wayne's reaction in "Ft. Apache" puzzled me because at the end he is now taking up where Fonda left off inpsite of the fact that he couldn't stand the man and thought what he was doing was foolish if not idiotic. At least his motives are in the best interest of the Cavalry. Stewart made his whole career on a lie in "Valance." I think he feels bad about it but after a while it is too late and he can't really get out from under it. Stewart's motives are in his best interest.

>Coffee, cigarettes, and alcohol have never appealed to me. I also can't stand the smell of beer. Consequently, I've never tried one. As a kid we had a neighbor (one of the other kid's father) loved playing football with us. The trouble was he usually had a beer before he came out to play. Standing in a huddle with someone with beer breath is tough. Now my brothers-in-law have great fun trying to be the first one to ask me if I want a beer. It's juvenile on their part but I guess they think the same since I won't drink one. You always have to line up your cereal by cover art? You must have some big cabinets. Chris

If you mean the "real life" opening in the morning that is "That's Life" (according to a an old discussion.) If you mean the animated one that is like the old "The Sunny SIde of Life" opening, I'm not sure about and would have to check. You might contact TCM directly. Hopefully someone will be along for you.

We understand perfectly about the pea soup. What really has me concerned is the pepper on the ice cream. This may be the weirdest thing I've ever heard in a conversation of food. I have some quirks but they pale in comparison. I can't stand the smell of coffee. I've hated it since I was a kid. At our family reunions all my aunts and uncles, etc. (except my father) sat around and drank the stuff while smoking cigarettes. It didn't matter how hot the weather was they had to have it. (For irony my wife works at Starbucks.) Cereal boxes go in so I can see what it is and fit comfortable on the shelf. Grape jelly on pancakes is a fine substitute for syrup. Burnt anything is yucky for me. Chocolate rules.The fridge is adequate. Anything chocolate is acceptable at any time of day. Breakfast tastes better when it is for dinner. We'll ignore your hair..... for now.

I think you mean John Burke. He was pleasant enough but I'm not sure how knowledgeable he is about film. Frankly, for any of this is if they are looking for someone to just read the intros you could get just about anyone. The thing I think helps Robert O. be so successful is that there seems to be a good deal of him in his pieces. If you are looking for someone with some knowledge who can write and deliver with a style his own that is a whole different matter. Maltin would seem a good choice. He did the commentary on the TCM released Laurel and Hardy DVD and some other DVD intros so why not.

>Do you or movieman have any comments about the Hatfield character? What was at the heart of his interest in Mrs.Mallory and just what was the deal with that cup anyway? My first thought about Hatfield was is he being her protector or is he looking to win her affections. My initial thought was the latter but I think as the trip went on he did become more of her protector. He became less pompous, I thought, after the baby showed up and maybe his death scene humanized him in a way that might not have manifested itself in another scene. Even his last act was to be chivalrous to Mrs. Mallory by "saving" her from the Indians but also ignoring Dallas, if you will, by only having the one bullet. He was, to me, the most complex character.

Molo: You bring up a good point about the humor. It is much more subtle and integrated than most other films. Mostly Buck provides it with his innocence but I found it funny how he was constantly being interrupted by others. It was as if they needed to hurry up his thought. I did pick up one mistake in that on the river crossing with the classic shot from on the wagon the camera shadow got in the shot. Not very noticeable as I hadn't noticed it before.

How odd seeing "****" here. Having just spent the last month going through the "Cracker" series (interesting title as we've been talking food) I am reminded of their fondness for that term. It's a good strong word. Bonus points for using a fresh term.

From the back of the class: I think the real strength of this film is the characters. There is not much going on (in a western sense) until we are almost an hour into the movie. The lesser characters of Peacock (Donald Meek) and Gatewood provide little except fot the others to play from. No one can remember Peacock's name and he does little more than give Boone an ample supply of whiskey on the trip. Gatewood is pure and simple a blowhard. Doing everything he can to demand everyone aid what amounts to his getaway. The real interest is the bookend effect of Ringo/Dallas and Hatfield/Mrs. Mallory. They each in their own way fulfill the same roles in the relationship but it is carried out quite differently. The men are chivalrous but only to their own lady. (Though Wayne clearly gets along with everyone.) Hatfield/ Mallory is cordial and refined but also smug. She doesn't want to be there and makes no bones about letting others know it. Hatfield essentially is her guard dog (self imposed) and only wants to do what is best for her regardless of how it affects others. Ringo is mindful of Dallas being a lady and takes appropriate action to remind others whether their lack of manners is on purpose or not. He is not so self centered with only Dallas as Hatfield is with Mallory. George Bancroft is fairly normal. Andy Devine's "Buck" grows up to be Linc Appleyard. Thomas Mitchell, I think, despite his drunkenness holds the middle ground. Though he is weak he knows how to be responsible and comes to it when he should. Monument Valley is indeed a star. Ford makes it apparent from the titles. Long shots dwarf the wagon and people. It's not too obvious but it's like finding a new toy and making the most of it. John Wayne shows that all those years making those lousy "B" movies paid off. His character is not much different than those but Ford has certainly polished Wayne's performances. Trevor is wonderful and it makes you wonder why those sorry women would throw her out except that, despite her job, she is clearly the most attractive and fun woman in town. In the end anyone can find happiness. Some are never as good or bad as they seem. Original disaster film? I'm not sure. Different people on here for different reasons all going for different reasons. Mostly determined to get to Lordsburg but the argument goes to how soon and under what conditions. Great stunts. Yakima Canutt is great. He once said any Indian would shoot the lead horse but then you wouldn't have an exciting chase and no end of the movie. I guess I should stop for now.