laffite
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Days Won
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Posts posted by laffite
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*did you ever did get a chance to re-visit Bette Davis' great performance in "THE LETTER" since your posting two weeks ago?*
CineMave, thanks for your interest. Your reminder sent me to my archives but the copy I have is unwatchable. I'll probably wait for TCM or maybe I'll order it from Flix.
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Silas Marner
foam
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*but I wanted to tell you that I rented "The Cherry Orchard" with John Gielgud and Peggy Ashcroft and it blew me away.*
Hi Jackie!
Me too! Peggy Ashcroft does some of the finest acting I've ever seen. If you got this from Netflix then you may have been sent the double feature, the one that has a second BBC version of the play done 20 years later (in which Dench plays the Ranevskaya,) on the other side of the disc. If so, did you watch it? I thought the comparison was interesting. Dench does this role her own way but she can't match Ashcroft, IMO. And, of course, Ian Holm. There is almost something comically over done about his Petya but I like how he did it, with much verve...such intensity, such idealism, no wonder Judi leaps into his arms and says, "Oh, how wonderful you said that" after one of his fiery verbal effusions. And, yes, Judi is so young...and adorable. And what energy! The production is full of energy.
*Finally I understand Chekhov!*
Oh, I wish I had your confidence! I'm not clueless but I never know whether I have it all with stuff like this.
This is such a great play! There is a movie of same made in 2001 with Charlotte Rampling and Alan Bates as the orchard owners that I like a lot. They have a few scenes at the beginning that I guess are meant to provide a little backstory (Ranevskaya in Paris, e.g.) that works okay, but the movie settles down and more or less presents the whole play in order. Both Rampling and Bates are great. You might want to try this. Timothy Spall is very interesting as Ephidov, who endures "misfortunes" every day, poor Ephidov!
I could go on and on, but I'll stop. I'm thinking of starting a thread about stuff like this, BBC productions, miniseries, drama done with film, period pieces, blah blah...what do you think? I've just watched The Mayor of Casterbridge, a 2001 ca A&E miniseries that was quite engrossing. *ButterScotchGreer* recommended "The Little Minister" a BBC playhouse production that I thought was magnificent. A play by J.M. Barrie ("Peter Pan"), beautifully realized. I have on my Netflix short list the opening installments of The Flame Trees of Thika and The Mayor of Casterbridge (again!), the latter different from above, a longer miniseries, and starring the great Alan Bates as the main character, Henchard. I love this stuff.
Here, the link below, is that scene with Petra and Anya in the garden, in which Petya looks at the orchard with a frisson and says, "You're cherry orchard frightens me." Oh, Petya, the "perpetual student" as he is referred too (Is this where that expression comes from?)
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#19
Man: What are we eating, watermelon, pizza, or a pancake?
Woman: Beats me, the picture's not too clear. I wish they'd tell us.
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Stalag 17
nw: inhere
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Alien 3
nw : natant
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*And my chief "distresses" are usually in the form of below-75 degree weather, so I trust*
*you to be at the ready at my first clarion call.
*Je suis votre serviteur!
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Witness
nw : perspicacity
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*Is this modern day knightly gallantry?! Torturing me with tales of your palmy weather while I suffer in hundred below temps!*
*OK it's in the low 60s but to me that's cause for suffering.
*My Knight Gallantry begins to atrophy when temperatures rise about 75 degrees. I'm a fair weather Knight. I'll trade you my 90s for your 60s, any day.
_Note to potential Damsel's in Distress'_. Do not be captured and pealing for help if the temperature is above aforesaid 75 degrees. I will be occupied sitting in front of the fan having a cool one. Sorry for the inconvenience.
*How hot is it in Needles?
*Beats me. But it was 103 in Death Valley earlier today.
Currently in S.D.:
*90 d*
*17 h*
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If you have a mouse with a roller, hold the CONTROL button down and move the roller back and forth and the screen will zoom in and out accordingly.
If you have a mouse _without_ a roller, hold down the CONTROL button and hit the button (next to Backspace) to make screen _zoom in_ and hit the - (minus) button (to the left of the button) to _zoom out_.
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*93 d.*
*11% h.*
Not too often that we get to moan about the heat because even if hot it is usually hotter somewhere else. Now, San Diego seems one of the hot spots of the nation. B-) It's even hotter right now that Phoenix. And Houston, Dallas, etc. (92 in Phoenix). The official weather station is on the coast where temperatures are less extreme, so there are inland points East that are quite a bit warmer. The Santa Ana condition is evident from the low humidity reading. Fire weather, but so far no problems.
(On a whim, I just check Los Angeles, and sure enough it is 95. They always upstage us up there.
If it's hot down here, it's alway hotter up there. If it rains a whole lot down here, it always rains more up there. Stupid Los Angeles. -
*bonjour mon gentille pirate!*
Guten Tag Meine Butterscotcherin!
>Okay, I can take it. Nothing but Gator Ade today. (Ugh. Pirates don t like the word Gator. Captain Hook, you know.) I know you won t mind though if I have a little wine.
*ooh ooh what kind of wine is it? no, no, no! i wont allow it! it can be gulped down just as easily as your rummy! no! im hiding that too! and to think that i was going to take pity on you for your hand being eaten. heehee!*
Ah, but t'was not my hand, t'was the Captain Hook. Are you not a Peter Pan Scholar? Why was a clock in the croc's stomach? Was Hook holding a clock in his hand when the crock struck? Or did the crock bite the hand when the clock struck. Confusion City.
But what s this? You re hiding my wine too. Ouchy!
Hide the wine! Hide the wine!
For Butterscotchgreer is looking to find,
Satisfied not with the rum absconding
The wine, the wine, now abducting
O woe is me, O rue the day
When that ole Butterscotchgreer
Steals the wine and takes it away
Who knows where, shedding no tear
>Oh you are a clever one ButterScotchGreer, what are we supposed to make of that maybe you hooked on the end
*well i thought i would leave it open for any funny thoughts. i love seeing people use their imaginations. its so exciting! you especially have an imagination i must say! honestly! heehee!*
Well, yes, sometimes. I thought maybe that guy pinched the waitress, like those Italians are famous for doing, although you are probably not so fond of Italians right now seeing how that Gino treated your Helen.
Too bad that Caroline Evers wasn't a muwaha-muwaha girl then. Boy, look at this. She coulda pulled one of these on pool ole Gino and he would have handed over that baby in no time. I think we should bring Helena into our muwahaha maunderings, she certainly looks the part.
>If you keep this up we may have to take your butterscotch candies away.
*thats not fair! hey, at least my butterscotch candies get me going throughout the day and dont get me drunk like your rummy does!*
I spiked your butterscotch candies with real rum. No wonder they get you through the day. You should be getting tipsy every time you have one of those seeming innocuous little candies. Maybe you can t tell the difference. Your just so happy all the time, you can t even tell.
*why, the impertinence! heehee! you haven t the right to take my butterscotch away from me!.....i draw my fake machete on you!*
Now, do you think I m gonna be afraid of a fake machete. Especially of someone who is drunk on spiked butterscotch candies.
*hey, my fake machete is just right for me! if i had anything sharper in my hand i would poke someone's eye out inadvertently silly goose!*
Well, you re not supposed to poke someone s eye put inadvertently, you re supposed to do it on purpose. And here I was, getting ready to offer you a permanent position on my galleon Girl Machete Corps. If you re gonna be on my ship, you can t be a sissy (even if you are a girl).
*on second thought i might take that into consideration for a smelly ol' pirate. heehee! just because pirates think "fussbudgets" are too sissy, doesnt mean they actually are. when dealing with little ol' me, youll have to deal with that. heehee!*
Well, gee, gosh golly darn, I m really afraid of a fake machete being carried around in a I love lucy purse. Sorry, Murgatroyd Greer, that doesn t sound like a whole lot to deal with. ( course stealin my rum and wine is a different story
)>I let you go, don t you remember? Once I found out that it was a fake sword you had, you started to cry and said you wanted to quit fighting so you could go home and watch Hannah Montana. So I said okay because I wanted to go to a cave and drink rum.
*you lie! you never let me go! you always tie me up and make me walk the plank leaving me as a damsel in distress so my handsome gary or mr. darcy can compete to save me.*
I m sorry to have to break this to you Miss Happy Chuckles, but gary and darcy are not coming to rescue you because you haven t chosen which one you like the best. You don t think I m gonna let you off the hook with that one, do ya?
*thats okay, danny is coming to the rescue!*
Danny? Uh, who s Danny? Is this another one of your beaus? Oh, Daaaarcy? Oh Gaaary? MissScotchie is flirting with someone new.
>Okay, I ll go sit in the corner and learn how to spell. Now, let s see, how does that go again, s-u-p-e-r-d-u-...
*it isnt used for sulking silly! its used for when you dont know what to say and then extraordinary things happen...its true! i tell no lies. heehee!*
I know that, chickadee, I m not sitting in the corner because I m sulking. I had to go the corner because you fired me as your main speller, remember? So I sat in the corner to practice my spelling but it s no use cause I ll never learn to spell the superduper word.
S-u-p-e-r-d-u-p-e-r-l-a-l-a-p-a-l-o-o-z-a
Is that right? Can I come out of the corner now?
>Liver and Lima Beans. Ewwwwwwwww!! When Laffite dies and goes to hell the devil is going to be standing there with a plate of liver and lima beans and say, Dinner time. Muahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
*finally i have something on you!! liver and lima beans, well i happen to agree with the liver. yucky. heehee! laffite will never go to...down there....that is unless he kills the innocent damsel in distress. shame on you!
*Yes, you re right, you got something on me and if I ever had to eat liver and lima beans, it would be the absolute end. Not even the finest rum could save me. And yes, laffite IS going down there. I am the master of dastardly deeds and that guy down there is cookin the liver and limas. Yech. Has my fair, the Butterscotch, ever done a dastardly deed?
>You mean you knew that! I thought I was giving you some esoteric info and that you would be very impressed and say, My, oh my, laffite, laffite, you are so smart. Doggone it!
*yes, but you always give me knew and exciting information that i dont know! i learn from you every day!...not good things neccessarily, unless you think drinking and swordfighting is for my good. heehee! you are smarter than i am, thats for surely!*
No, it s not for surely. When I was 18 (ooh, my head hurts for thinking back that far) I was a lost soul, I did not have your awareness nor your unabashed way of expressing yourself nor your quickness of thought. You re way ahead of me, gal.
>Now you re calling me a softie again. Do I have to go out there and do a bunch of muhawawa stuff to prove to you that I m a valiant and fearsome pirate.
*well i havent actually seen you pull out your sword on me yet. heehee!*
Well, I ve been easy on you so far. But If I ever really get mad at you, you sure better watch out! I have a new sword that I need to try out and I may have to use a certain butterscotchie person I know to see if it cuts good enough.
>I put incorrigible in that word game in General Discussions but you were apparently not logged on to answer it. You were probably doing something useful, like playing tennis, or something.
*actually i was practing waving around my fake machete. heehee!*
Haha, my funny girl, that made me laugh.
>Singing songs of fair, like it says in your poem. Don t you remember your poem, silly one! Poets are supposed to remember their poems. You rise from the sea and suspend yourself in air while you sing beautiful songs just like in The Knight and Knave of Swords, the book. See?
*well excuse me! ill remember to remember my poems next time. goodness! a girl forgets a couple lines and the next thing you know someone's making her walk the plank.*
No. That s not a walking-the-plank offense. Forgetting lines means that you have to write a thousand times: I will not forget my beautiful lines of poetry ever again. Then you have to peel potatoes for a week. (Watch out for those pinkies though, we don t want anything to interfere with your fake machete practicing.)
>Talk about ranky stanky. I am like Pigpen. I am affixed with the stink of many ages&All you have to do is hold your nose all the time.
*then i wouldnt be able to breathe! i think you can take a bath, b/c you want girls to give you hugs dont you? girls dont like when their pirates smell ranky stanky. heehee!*
There was once a pirate laffite
Who had nary a bath for a week
He was so ranky stanky
There was no hanky panky
Because no girl could suffer the reek.
>Elizabeth: I have half a mind to send darcy over there to punch you in the nose but he s out in the back yard practicing his archery because he s such a bad shot.
*...but darcy was just being modest for her. he really can shoot ya know.*
Are you sure about that? He looked pretty perturbed to me. So you re saying then that Darcy purposely let her win so that he can butter her up. That s condescending to her. I think that Elizabeth should give him a good slap across the face for that. Who does he think he is anyway patronizing poor Elizabeth that way. Especially after he thought her such a low class little snit. Liz should forget all about Darcy and go find Smithy. At least Smithy doesn t play silly games like Darcy. He just doesn t know who he is. Boy that Greer sure knows how to pick em.
>ButterScotch, ButterScotch, I cannot tell a lie. There is no suspense whatsoever if I know what s going to happen.
*well where's the fun in that? honestly! you need to learn how to forget a movie.*
There are some I wish I could forget.
*heehee! im not going there with video games. goodness! my family is mostly made up of boys so i know what video games are. golly!*
What are they? I ask you this in all seriousness. I don t like video games and I ve never even played one all the way through and if I have my way I ll never get near one. Bleah!
*...okay here's the one you NEED to see! i think you will love it!! The Little Minister (1975). i love it love it love it!! its one of my favorites from helen on TV. she got me talking Scottish/Shakespearean at the same time with that movie. heehee! she is so gorgeous in it too. this is actually a rare case in which i love the remake...*
I have it! It came from Netflix and there is a bonus, i.e,. a second program, The Philanthropist. Did you see that one? Anyone, as of the moment, I haven t seen them but I will shortly.
*i love the lucy van pelt picture. cute! i still think she and you make a lively couple.heehee!*
O Butter, you know how to get to me, don t you? Ooooooh, you are a meanie to say that! I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate Lucy. Why, if I capture her Iand cut her up with my new sword and then fry her up and feed her to the crew. And Schroeder will send me an email thanking me for having lucy for dinner because now he can concentrate on Beethoven, and I ll email him back and say, you re welcome, but my crew was sick for three weeks.
>...And here I am, crazy as a loon, just like you, and we can live happily ever after in this crazy house, cause we are so crazy about each other. And then she ll say, Oh Smithy, Oh Smithy, Oh Smithy, about a hundred times. And then in the next scene, they ll be a baby. We don t need to see the how of it because these things just happen in sappy movies like this. And they lived happily ever after. The End.
*you got it all mixed up! great intetions, but you did it wrong! heehee! a little less craziness and drama, and just more hugs and kisses, and then ill be happy. they HAVE to show the baby too. its a must! heehee!*
Okay, then&no more speeches. Nothing but hugs and kisses. But it s going to be an awfully boring movie. Hugs and kisses only go so far.
>Well what do you think. Should I eschew this grisly life of a pirate and go to Hollywood and write screenplays?
*youre getting there!*
You mean I m not there yet? Geez, I think I ll go back go a-plunderin.
My next screenplay is going to be nothing but hugs and kisses. At least I know I ll have one fan.
>Yes, I know. We were all waiting for him to say that most important thing, Oh, by the way, Margaret, I ve been meaning to tell you, you look just like this woman I once knew, her name was&oh, what was it now&Pauleen, or Palo Alto, or something like that. Anyway, most uncanny the resemblance. What did I think of her? Well, she was sort of&whatever. Well, have a good time in the country.
*i dont think he would do that! if he did recognize her, he wouldnt let her go on that train. even though he didnt get it anyway and she was going off, didnt you see it in their eyes?*
Oh, is that what that was? I thought those were cataracts.
>There was once a man who was Smithy
>Who could talk but was nevertheless quite pithy
>Came along Paula divine
>He now talked all the time
>And they fell so much in love in a jiffy.
*AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!! thats so cute! i love that one!!!! well if you arent ready for screen writing, youre ready for song writing!*
Actually these are limericks. Limericks are often saucy but I stick to sappy ones because I know that hugs-and-kisses Butterscotcher likes those kind
There was once a woman named Paula
Who danced at the local Music Hall-a
A man she named Smithy
Whom she longed to be with-y
So that together they just might in love fall-a
My limericks are bad and just for fun, but there are some dandies. Here is a famous one written, I believe, a long time ago by I know not who:
*The Pelican*
A wonderful bird is the pelican
His mouth can hold more than his belican
He can take in his beak
Enough food for a week
I'm damned if I know how the helican
>I have forgotten about butterscotch over the years.
*how could anyone forget the flavor of butterscotch?!*
Uh, excuse me? I spend most of my time on the main, ya know? I can t just go down to the corner grocery and pick up some butterscotch candies, okay? Butyou re just a girl who can t say no to butterscotch and flits around all day waving a fake machete and goes to Austin City Limits and all that. You re just a regular girl living a regular life and you have butterscotch all around you all the time. Why, heck, you name is even butterscotch. For goodness sake, course you re not gonna forget. Sheesh. (I hope you re on the next ship I plunder cause I think I would like those rum-spiked ones,)
>But, but, she s not real either. She s in a movie. Princess Diana was real. (but I know what you mean )
*no buts! she is too real! noone can convince me otherwise! so thou can goist throw thyself into the fake poison. heehee!*
Buttercup was not real. She was a made up princess in that book that Peter Falk was reading to his nephew. So there
>"Virtue
>Can hurt you."
*thanks for putting that in my head for the rest of the day. heehee!*
A Camel s
a mammal.
Is that one better? It s very educational.
>Well, I thought you might know a few of those, since you were practicin Sinatree songs.
*I do know them*
Do you mean you knew those Sinatree songs I put up there for you to fill in. But why didn t you answer them? Well, good thing for you that was just an meaningless pop quiz instead of a Plank Pop Quiz Challenge, cause if you do not answer a Plank Pop Quiz Challenge, we re talkin plank, girl. It s not a nice thing to watch a semi-sweetybudget like you walk the plank. (You would be a full sweetybudget but all that waving around that fake machete has me worried.
)>In my speech class in college, we had 50 people in the class. The next meeting there were only 12. She scared the heck out of us by telling us what a fussbudget she was going to be. She had to cut the class down to size because it was too large.
*! that story is funny! heehee! my speehc teacher tried to do the same, but he ended up being a great teacher and everyone actually enjoys his class. he cant fool us, he's a softire underneath it all...like you! the other day he told us all to stand up and tell the person next to us to happy birthday to my teacher, and before we said it to each other he told him happy birthday altogether! he was so surprised! heehee! not a normal college class, you'd think. heehee! then he promptly asked us what kind of speech it was. of course we all got it right. heehee!*
Well, it s evident that you all have that teacher wrapped around your collective pinkies.
>Goo, goo. Goo, goo. Maman, maman, donne-moi un bon bon. Goo oo,
>J ai faim, j ai faim, wah wah, whaaaaaaah&goo goo google goo. >Goo?
*pure shakespear darlin'.*
To goo or not to goo.
>Remember when we were talking about Bacall and Bennett. And so I leave with this. Does this picture mean anything to you?
*hey i know that picture! you sly pirate you!*
Convince me. Tell what movie it's from, for instance, okay? Tell me a little or no more butterscotch candies for you,
A bientot, mon amie
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>Could you tell me what you mean by ?normal? character?
*...im not at all bashing her, i think her acting abilities show to make her very versatile, and thats good. that just says your a great actor or actress, but her make-up is what freaks me out mostly and her characters. heehee!*
Okay, got it?and no, I did not think you were bashing her. I think of Helena in those early movies when she played those sweety pie roles like Angels and Howard?s End, etc. And I don?t know much some of the later ones, though I did see Fight Club where she had a sexy role and a character who was a little on the strange side. I saw the first Potter movie but I don?t remember that she was in that one. What movie is the screencap you posted where she is wild-eyed and gesturing wildly? She looks like she might make a rather effective muwahahaha girl.
Anyway, you?ve got me interested in her. Can you recommend something you like in one of her later roles? Did you see Sweeney Todd? Did your mom like it?*dont you think Lilia was sane too? i mean if you think about it, it really wasnt her fault, any of it*
Yes, she was sensible. I guess I was thinking of those among the ?conspirators,? when I singled out Caroline.
*i do think it all comes down to the different traditions and cultures clashing together because of the marriage. i understodd that Gino was very used to Italians and his own ways of doing everything, but its like he shut his mind off when it came to her life, i mean isnt marriage about giving to each other?*
I think that?s the way it?s supposed to be, by our standards anyway. But at that time in Italy, the husband gave the orders and the women obeyed them. Mutual giving the way you mean does not seem to a part of the Italian marriage at that time.
*its like her didnt care what she wanted, granted i respected that he TRIED to give her a tea party at first, but that didnt last very long, b/c he didnt understand it like she did in her own culture. i mean she was right when she said, "if you wanted an Italian wife, then you should have married one, but you married me instead." he didnt even take that line into consideration when he should have, he shut his mind off her opinions and was being stubborn.....okay so if i took into consideration the fact that this is set in the early 1900s, i can understand that women were suppose to follow their husbands in what they did, especially the Italians, BUT that still doesnt give Gino the right to treat her like he did.*
Not by our standards, no. But if we can believe that the movie, or more, importantly, the original novel (the movie follows the novel closely), is depicting Italian society as it really was, then we have to at least accept it, even though personally we may be offended by it. Unfortunately, by the standard of the time, I believe he was within his rights although by any reasonable moral code, he probably wasn?t. Unfortunately, that doesn?t help Lilia.
>Gino loved her. I don?t recall anything specific that suggested that Gino married her for money though we may have license to think that may have been a consideration. But despite his behaviour towards her, which was determined by culture and not by his sentiments, there?s ample evidence that he did, in fact, love her. That?s partly what makes him interesting, he wasn?t a meanie, per se, and the way he tried to shake her back to life tells us something too.
*then why did he cheat on her?*
Uh, do you always have to ask these intelligent questions? You?re making poor laffite?s head spin with all these zingers. If you keep this up I may have to go for the rum.
*i would like to know how she figured tht out myself, but anyways, heehee!, or was that what they all did back then? i really dont know so i can assume, but if i really loved someone i wouldnt cheat on them. or am i missing the point, sometimes i tend to do that. heehee!*
No telling how she knew, she might have simply intuited it. Still, how can you love someone and cheat on them at the same time? It?s possible, I imagine, but it may not be the quality of love we would all approve of.
*but they really did look happy together, thats what i couldnt understand....*
Early on they did?there were a lot of scenes at the beginning where they were shown as being very happy, but later?
*after she said to her little daughter in that letter that she was more miserable than she had ever been before,*
When she said this, it was right after that pivotal scene when she went out alone and upon returning had that exchange with Gino in which she learned that he was cheating. Remember, he just looked at her and laughed, and she said somewhat incredulously, ?You?re laughing?? and he approaches her and says, ?I didn?t know you even knew, let?s not talk about it any more,? still laughing. Remember the expression on her face when he said that? It was a sort of acceptance, not the kind that says, ?Oh, that?s a relief, now I?m happy,? but the kind says, ?What can I do?? So yes, she was very unhappy after that, shortly thereafter we see her in the church, rising from the pew, holding her abdomen, obviously pregnant, but looking very forlorn and unhappy.
*when she was having the baby, Gino went to her side and she put her hand on his head and they talked sweet to each other and then they kissed before he left the room. thats what got me.*
*do you think her love for Gino was still as strong after the all the things that happened to her before she died? i mean, i could see in her face that she was hurting BECAUSE she was still in love with him, in my opinion, and thats why she was scared, b/c she couldnt stop loving him. im guessing that why she put up with everything, but when she had the baby, her body finally couldnt handle it anymore, b/c she was so miserable to the point of burning out. but maybe im wrong, thats the impression i got anyway.*
Was Lilia?s love as strong for Gino at the time of her death after all that went on before? Who knows? They seem to be okay. The movie probably wants to think their love is strong enough. We have to go on what they show us. Their bedside rapport just before the baby was born seemed positive. My feeling is that they loved each other at the end but there were problems. Gino probably still kept mistresses and Lilia was still unhappy about that and church as well as being cooped up. But the movie never touched upon these things again. And I thought it was simply a physical breakdown that caused her death but there is nothing wrong with your idea that she may have been just too unhappy inside and perhaps gave up. This seems more poetic and in a rather sad way.
*it really sounded weird when Gino told her he had been praying for a boy and then she answered him with, "you?re a boy yourself." he said back," we will be brothers." why would he think that of his own son? well later in the movie i think he realized that it was his own son, but then it was just weird he said that.*
This is Gino?s boyish charm coming out, rather a fanciful to say, yes, but he was being a bit cute there. Just as later he says to Caroline that the baby must be with him and with not his parents because the latter ?would separate our thoughts,? mean his and the baby?s. There is something very child-like in the way he sees things.
*i was talking about at the end of the film when caroline was talking to phillip. i dont think gino accepted that his baby died....didnt he like try to jump Phillip and kill him?*
Yes, but wasn?t that when Gino first discovered that the baby was missing? Remember when he was groping the floor looking for the baby, almost like an animal. He was sort of in that first stage of apprehension and grief, and the fight followed directly after. (I thought it strange that Phillip would say, ?Well, he did die in my arms, you know,? which was supposed to mean what? That should have infuriated Gino even more. And it probably did.)
But yes, when Caroline and Phillip were talking at the end of the film, there was a sense later that Gino found closure rather quickly when Caroline said something like, ?He doesn?t seem to care,? or something like that. And Philip says something like, ?Well, he knows he?s been happy before and that there is a good chance that he?ll be happy again.? Gino seems to have this capability for moving on and not holding grudges. Philip says in the same conversation, ?I?ve never been so fully forgiven,? and then goes on to explain how Gino lied to the authorities to save his (Phillip?s) neck.
*i got confused when Caroline said to drink from the same milk vase to settle it. that was really random, maybe it was them to share and realize life itself.*
Well, I think you hit it. There is something symbolic about drinking milk from the same vase and I think it might even refer to a specific incident in the bible, though I?m not sure. There is cleansing and mutual forgiveness at play, though Gino?s plight seems much more the difficult one. The scene seems a little artificial in a movie so realistic but it works (for me).
*why did Caroline faint in the first place...when she did that, i was like, "what happened?" was it because she saw the chest of a man in the 1900s when that didnt happen unless you were married? or was it because he said something about dropping hot cigars ashes on someone? i think he was being sarcastic wasnt he?*
I think she fainted primarily because she was somewhere where she wasn?t supposed to be?and then suddenly being discovered. I mean, here she is in a man?s apartment unannounced. When he suddenly walks to within proximity and then turns and looks straight into her eyes, it was too much for her. But, as you point out, the fact that he was in a stage of undress and at the same time making that crude remark about dropping hot cigar ashes on the baby might have jolted her as well. And yes, he was just talking in a teasing way, he would not have done that, IMO.
*thats basically how i reacted when i heard her say that. i thought to myself if Caroline actually said those words. momma said she was right, and i told her that was so mean to say. heehee! but it was as if Phillip didnt know how to express emotion for himself.*
You didn?t reference the above, but I?m assuming you?re talking about the ??inside you are dead, dead, dead,? that Caroline says to Phillp. It?s true what you say, Phillip seems a little less in touch with himself whereas Caroline seems to know herself and what?s going on with the situation better than Phillip.
*do you think Phillip had a liking for Caroline?*
It?s possible but it wasn?t developed at all. The story was about Gino and Lilia, and much less about Caroline and Phillip, although there were intimations. But just when we think that maybe a rapprochement is about to happen with Caroline and Phillip, Caroline hits us with this bombshell about Gino, ?I love him, I love Gino,? and later says, somewhat sentimentally, I think, ??and if I can?t talk to someone about him from time to time, I will surely die.? (quotes are approximate). But as I mentioned in my opening post, there seemed to a possibility at the very end of the movie that they may one day get together.
(It doesn?t seem to me that they would be a great match though. She?s smarter than he is and is always a step ahead. I think she would get tired of him. He?ll say something and she snaps impatiently at him. Even after she said, ?I love Gino,? he says something with regard to loving him as well, and she barks at him, saying something like, ?Your not listening to me, you?re not understanding what I?m trying to say,? and in the train station, still in Italy, she says to him, ?Where?s Harriet?? and he says, ?I don?t know,? and then she looks exasperated for a moment and says, ?Well, don?t you think you should find her?,? and he kind of goes, ?Ah, yes,? and looks like some absent-minded professor and goes off with the camera showing her facial expression as she looks at him walking away, totally exasperated. (notice the music here). I thought that funny but I think that because she is so clearly in the driver?s seat with exchanges of the sort, that she might lose interest in him. And then the way she lets him have it in the church, whoa! She?s too smart for him. Just me.)
*i loved that opera scene! is that what it is called? i couldnt figure it out.*
Hmm, not sure what you mean here. Is what called? Do you mean aria? You might already know this but an aria is a solo in an opera, like ?Nussun Dorma,? for instance. I?ll find out the name of the aria that the fat lady sang, very famous, very beautiful.
*i started laughing so hard when Harriet stood up to "shush" the audience. they didnt seem to care and kept on cheering. i love it! i wanted to "shush" harriet throughout the whole movie. heehee!*
So you thought that Harriet was a little bit funny, then? Me too. That?s what I like about fussbudgets? They overdo everything to comic effect?sometimes. If they get too bothersome I may have to employ my machete or perhaps make ready the plank.
But she was kind of over-the-top funny it some spots.*yes, i bought the DVD off Amazon.com i couldnt wait anymore for it to come on TV. i wanted it too badly. heehee! the Countryside was verybeautiful, and i had always wanted to go to Italy and now i want to go even more. SIGHS! heehee! what did you think about the scenery?*
Well you?re a princess of a gal to go out and buy that and I?m so glad you did. I hope you think it was worth it?and it sounds like you and your mom liked it?I hope my recommendation helped you decide to buy but of course we can?t neglect your boundless enthusiasm for the inimitable Miss HelenM and it was probably only a matter of time before you got it anyway?
Thinking back, there doesn?t seem a lot of scenes with the camera lingering and gushing over the countryside but there were glimpses here and there and the local color was always evident. That?s one thing about Phillip, he sure likes the beauty of italy. That incorrigible ole fussybudget Harriet couldn?t care less.
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Borrowing MissG's screencap, there is something wrenching about this face
and what she is saying. With that look on her face how can anyone not
worry about her. If anyone needs rescuing it's this sweet young thing. She
looks so lost and so sad, it almost makes me weep. Why, if I could, I would
go right in that frame, put my arm around Nell, and say, "Come on, let's go
get some coffee and you can tell me all about it." Now, in case you might
think that I have designs on this young thing, just perish the thought.
I am considering only her welfare. Yes, even though she is adorable
beyond any normal human imagination, all I want is her happiness.
Laffite the Compassionate
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night people
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jack klugman
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next word: *sanguine*
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Every four days is about right. You did fine.
//
18
*Woman*: "Honey, I like getting our picture taken but I'm confused. I don't think we have any children...do we?
*Man*: "No, but don't say anything yet...we may be in 'The Twilight Zone'."
*Baby*: "Who's that funny looking man over there talking about the "signpost up ahead." I don't see no signposts.
do-do-do-do-do-do-do...
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*_RE: Where Angels Fear To Tread (1991)_*
*okay i have to tell you what i thought of it..........if you dont mind that is. heehee!*
Ho ho, I am delighted that you saw this film and I think real nice that your mom saw it too. And that you want to share your thoughts.
*some of this may be some what of a spoiler for where angels Fear to Tread, for other who are reading this*
Oh, good point?and the same for below, my spoilers are even worse, so please don?t read the below if you haven?t seen this one. I would say to you, in fact, in the words of Caroline Abbot, ?I forbid you! I absolutely forbid you!? Oh those English!
*this was the first movie i had seen with Helena Bonham Carter as a normal character. heehee!...i thought she was very sweet actually, but i was somewhat confused with her character toward the middle of the movie. i never got if she was some sort of relation or just good friends with Lilia(helen).*
Could you tell me what you mean by ?normal? character? I find that an interesting comment (seriously) and would like to know what you mean by that please. Yes, she was normal in that she has the most sense than any of the characters. She keeps us all sane, in fact?everyone else is on a tangent.She is the vicar?s daughter and she is a known by the Herritons and is counted as a friend especially to Lilia. She accompanies Lilia to Italy at the beginning and actually encourages Lilia to marry Gino, ?if you really love him,? an idea that the Herritons would find horrible. She goes to Italy the second time because she has designs on the baby but later agrees to work in concert with Phillip and Harriet. I love her and her character in this movie. Yes, very sweet.
*when Lilia was having the baby, you could see she was so miserable and sad with her life and her husband Gino was so cruel to her. he, basically in my eyes, abused her. i didnt get it. he was cheating on her, yet he wanted to keep her locked away like some precious valuable.*
It?s important to remember that this is 1900ca. The novel on which this movie is based (of the same title), shows the clash of cultures and is meant to criticize the hubris of the English. Yes, he abused her by any reasonable standard but he is bound by his own culture. When poor Lilia wants to go for that walk and he blocks her, saying, ?I cannot let you go out alone. My friends will laugh at me,? he is telling the truth. And having tea parties (Lilia?s dearest wish), is just not done in Italy. Her duty was to stay in and be an ?Italian? wife. Although we wince of his treatment of her, if we?re honest, we know that he is acting the only way he knows how. He can?t let her go out alone, out of the question. Remember too just before the baby was born, we see the men smoking cigars and playing cards and the women in the chapel praying. That how it was. Lilia was made to become a Catholic because that?s women did because it gave them something to do.
*but i think he really did love her, just not as a man would know how to love. he was a mere boy and didnt know how to love yet. i was in tears when she died after handing the baby to him. i mean its like she just gave up; she couldnt handle it anymore, and you could tell right then that he did love her, but only to an extent?*
Gino loved her. I don?t recall anything specific that suggested that Gino married her for money though we may have license to think that may have been a consideration. But despite his behaviour towards her, which was determined by culture and not by his sentiments, there?s ample evidence that he did, in fact, love her. That?s partly what makes him interesting, he wasn?t a meanie, per se, and the way he tried to shake her back to life tells us something too.
*when Caroline told Phillip that Gino was only after Lilia's money and didnt care at all about the baby, i dont think that was all the way true.*
Are you talking about the end of the film? I remember Caroline saying something like, ?It?s almost as if he didn?t care about the baby at all,? after the baby had died, partly because (she is thinking) Gino seems to accept it and move on (and in a way that an English person could not do, she may be implying), but that was something she said in passing. Or are you referring to something earlier? But no, I don?t think she believed that at the end. And we can see that she became convinced that he loved the baby, especially in that scene that began when she fainted (referred to below).
*i was on pins and needles the whole time! you see what happens when you get greedy and kidnap a baby. honestly, that judy davis! i got so sad when it happened.*
When Harriet and Philiip are in the carriage with the baby there are some bits of conversation and Harriet says something like, ?There was no one there, there was no one there,? meaning Gino?s house. She may have gone there with the intent to negotiate but ended up just taking the baby when Gino was nowhere to be seen. But just earlier she had surprised upon Phillip and Gino?s conversation in the cafe whereby they had mutually conceded that further negotiations were out of the question and Gino would keep the baby and Phillip, Harriet, and Caroline would return to England. Overhearing that, Harriet might have gone to Gino?s, knowing he wasn?t there, in an attempt to steal the baby. In either case, only Harriet could have done this. We can give the English (in general) a pass on that one. Neither Phillip nor Caroline would have gone so far as to actually steal the baby, IMO.
*i had momma watch this with me, and when caroline said, "phillip, would you rather the baby be in a home where he is loved, but brought up wrong, or be in a home where he isnt loved, but brought up right?" thats line made momma's eyebrows raise and i said," wow! thats an interesting line." its still bothering me. heehee!*
Your momma knows when to raise her eyebrows. That line by Caroline probably sums up the whole movie, the clash of culture. The English are rich and have all the manuals on how to rear a child but somehow in the process overlook the most important thing, providing the child with a true loving regard. The Italians are poor and have no elaborate construct for rearing a child but will love the child to distraction in a most elemental and natural way. At least, this is what I think Caroline meant by that line. And, of course, such a statement would not apply to England and Italy today. That line by Caroline was delivered in the midst of another fine little speech by Caroline. Phillip blithely says that he will have one more meeting with Gino and if that doesn?t work, they?ll pack up and go home and at least can say that they tried. Caroline, who is the most clear-eyed among these English, berates him for this. ?But that?s not doing anything?? meaning that they are not there to try something and build an excuse for failure, they are there to actually get the baby. ?Phillip, on the outside you are full of all kinds of good intentions but on the inside you are dead, dead, dead!? Oooh, that gets me (weep weep), oh that Caroline doesn?t mince words. That was so dramatic for me! She might have been addressing all of England! Phillip is brought to earth by this and delivers that reflective speech, i.e., ?I seem to glide through life?and if something ever happens in life I?m not there.? (These are approximate quotes. I wish I had the DVD to refer to
)*Lilia's in-law family were all wackos. they basically all treated Lilia like she wasnt alive, they didnt even acknowledge her to her own daughter when she got married or had a baby. you didnt lie when you said they were great fussbudgets. phew! heehee!*
Yes, they looked down on her. She is an in-law and they never quite accepted her. When she became widowed, they ?took her in? and this trip to Italy was supposed to be good for her. And they didn?t tell Lilia?s daughter because of this hyper-exaggerated notion that the ?slightest shock? (---Mrs Herriton), to a nine year old could ?ruin her life forever.? Harriet is the real fussbudget of the movie. I mean she is quite possibly worse than that Lucy Van Pelt.
Judy Davis probably overplays the fussbudgetism a bit but she still delivers a great performance as Harriet. *what i couldnt understand was that caroline ended up falling in love with Gino. how did that happen? goodness me!*
This was meant to be a surprise. I don?t think we were necessarily meant to see that coming. But, it doesn?t come as a shock either if we think back. First of all, Gino is charming. He was very nice to her. When she faints in his apartment, she recovers and terribly embarrassed, saying, ?I must go and you are busy.? He is all over her with genuine regard and care ?You must rest?and I am not busy.? He is so gentle with her. In that ensuing conversation she becomes convinced that Gino loves the baby and that affects her. Remember, at first she says, ?I forbid you, I forbid you,? (Oh, the English) when he says he?s going to remarry, but when Gino says to her with utmost sincerity, ?I?m not marrying her for the money. I don?t care about the money. I?m marrying her for my son,? she believes him, utterly,?and so do we. And then that magnificent scene when she helps with the baby (note the music here), with the bath (is that a cute baby, or what?), it?s not difficult to sense a connection with her and Gino. It was quite a nice little domestic scene and this is why she was mortified when Phillip walked in on them. Here she is, supposedly with the intent of helping to get the baby away from Gino and she is playing mama. When Phillip catches up with her in the church, Philip admits, ?He is rather charming, isn?t he?? and she answers slowly and with meaning, ?Very.? She is in love with Gino, that scene with Gino in the apartment did it, IMO. But it?s much easier to see in retrospect than actually draw that conclusion at the time (although perceptive viewers might certainly have guessed it.)
*i have a question for you. when Lilia was telling Phillip, "this time i marry for love" do you really think she loved Gino? and did that mean that she didnt love her late husband? i got confused!*
She adored Gino. As to her previous marriage, it was apparently a loveless one. Either it was a marriage of convenience or she might have just chosen badly. Whatever it was, she didn't love her first husband. But she did love Gino.
*i understood what you meant by this movie having gorgeous music. it was breathtaking and the opera scene was hilarious! i loved the song she was singing. i wonder what its called, if its a real song. i am going to get this soundtrack sometime! i love the musical score!*
The music is by Rachel Portman, who won an Oscar for Cider House. The music in Angels is great in it?s own right but the way it is integrated with the action is very moving too. If you still have DVD, watch the beginning scene at the train station with Caroline saying goodbye to her father. Listen to the music as the action unfolds. The music begins at that point and then crescendos as we see the train pulling out of the station, Philip and Harriet running alongside the moving train yelling things to Lilia as they wave, and culminating with Caroline and Lilia hugging each other on the train as it pulls away from the station. Just brilliant! Almost a set piece in itself. The music is wonderful in this way throughout.
I?ll get you the title of the aria. It?s very famous and from an equally famous opera, Lucia de Lamoormoor, by Donizetti.
And what did you make of that insufferable fussbudget Harriet actually standing up and turning to the audience and saying ?Shush, shush,? during the applause and then saying outrageously, referring to the opera, ?Where is Walter Scott in all this, that?s what I want to know. Where is Walter Scott?? This is almost over-the-top tongue in cheek but the point is driven home again how the English are so egocentric with regard to the rest of the world. (To the popular English reading audience of that time, Sir Walter Scott?s novels were the most widely read)
*all in all, it was a pretty interesting story, with GREAT acting, but i didnt like how it ended.it wasnt my usual beautiful sappy ending.*
No, but there may have been a hint of it. Caroline refers again to her love for Gino and Phillip says to her, ?Maybe it will pass,? and she gives him that ?yeah right? look, then says, ?Well, if it does, you?ll know soon enough,? and then he rather awkwardly but honestly says, ?Thank you,? and that final hug. I have to admit, I really lose it, what with that music and the train going by and the mother coming and yelling, ?Phillip?? (though without being able to see him) and then that final hug, I thought it was just wonderful.
*heehee! granted it is a great movie to watch over and over again as long as im ready for fussbudget extremes.*
Do you own the DVD? If so, you can watch again. I think there?s a lot to it and the performances are so good. And we haven?t mentioned some of the beautiful countryside. If you have any further comments about his, please air them. I?m so glad you watched it. If you don?t agree with something I wrote, please post it. Sorry this was so long, drat!
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Winds of War
A MERRY WAR or FUNNY DIRTY LITTLE WAR
Message was edited by: laffite
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the odd couple
voluptuary
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terms of endearment
panache
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deep in my heart
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_FilmFatale wrote:_
*.. or by the swimming pool*
*...or if you prefer here sitting still*
You know the It Girl, right? Well, MM is the Anywhere Girl.
She seems to look nice wherever she is.
(I'm not able to watch Youtube but I gather
that was a montage of beach scenes)
_MissG wrote:_
*Did you just call me Spot White?
*Gosh, MissG, I'm not sure. If it's something good, then yes
I'm not sure what Spot White is...but it has a nice ring
to it.
*
If it's hot down here, it's alway hotter up there. If it rains a whole lot down here, it always rains more up there. Stupid Los Angeles. 
The First Film That Comes to Mind...
in Games and Trivia
Posted
All's Quiet on the Western Front
raucous