MattHelm

TCM has serials for sale, including pre-orders for Superman ... http://turnerclassic.moviesunlimited.com/product.asp?sku=D52357

I forgot about those typewriter things. Too bad you couldn't rewrite the copy into a word document. You could start your own website on serials and other films with what you know. Did these guys have a great sense of humor looking back at the way how some things were made then? I would love to have asked Crabbe about the scene in either the first or second (?) Flash Gordon collection, where he fights that creature with the lobster claws in the cave, and then they cut to a long shot of a four-year-old in a Flash Gordon suit, to make the creature look huge. These guys must laugh about stuff like that.

Well, I'll say this, Filmlover had quite an opportunity when he interviewed Buster Crabbe and Tom Steele. That must have been a great privilege. I'd love to read them. Maybe he could start a thread and cut and paste the interviews in them. Maybe in weekly installments in the spirit of the serials. How about it filmlover, I think everyone would love to read them.

I would like to address one more thing ... I'm referring to the universal zodiac signs only, and not the Chinese zodiac. Like the Chinese take-out says, "No substitution!"

Hi, sugarpuss. I'm glad you're back for more. The way I set it up so that you can base your movies on any aspect of the zodiac sign you choose, leaves you with so many possibilities that even if everyone chose the same sign, there would be lots of different movies in everyone's schedule. Of course, there could be some of the same, but that has happened in every Challenge since we started, anyway. Some of us just think so much alike when it comes to classics. I hope the usual suspects join us again, and of course, anyone else who's never tried their hand at it and would like to.

Gerb and filmlover, go ahead and talk all you want about serial-related books, etc., on here. It's educational and has kept the thread lively.

Here are the reference websites all in one post to make it easier for people. Zodiac signs: http://www.astrology-online.com/persn.htm Serial sites: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial http://www.volcano.net/~themaverick/ser-****.html The TCM Library References: RKO Radio Pictures - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0041421/ Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0020206/ Warner Bros./First National - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0026840/ Further details on what studio/years comprise the library, courtesy of coffeedan: http://forums.turnerclassicmovies.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=67884&start=15&tstart=0 Birthdays by mongo: http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=12703&start=2925#206254 http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=82491&start=315

Gerb, Anything you're willing to share with us on the serials would be much welcomed. And feel free to join the Challenge and submit a week's programming. If you can whip up a spreadsheet with 231 serial titles and info, this should be a cinch for you. Here's another site I just stumbled on with more serial titles: http://www.volcano.net/~themaverick/ser-****.html You've just got to love anything titled Zombies of the Stratosphere.

Hi filmlover, I'm glad you're in. We'll have to use the cone of silence for this. By the "sign's duration" I mean that your week should fall sometime within whatever zodiac sign's period, that you choose. For example, Sagittarius' period goes from Nov. 22 to Dec. 21, so someone who chooses that sign would schedule a week anytime between those dates. And naturally, they would schedule whatever birthdays that fell within that week. I apologize, my description is confusing. Using Sagittarius as an example, you could schedule a movie (and/or shorts) based on that sign's looks, like a movie with a centaur, a movie about a horse, or one that involves archery. You could also choose a movie based on one of the sign's traits ... they're natural teachers or philosophers, so you could schedule a movie about a teacher or a philosopher. It's elemental sign is Fire, so you could also schedule a movie that involves a fire or has fire in the movie's title. This way there are thousands of possibilities. And when everyone presents their schedules, they should clue us in on why they chose each movie and what traits and elements they based them on. This site below is much more informative on the zodiac than the other one I've linked. It goes into depth about each sign and if you scroll all the way down, it lists the birthdays of all the famous people who share(d) that sign, which will be very useful for those scheduling birthday tributes. http://www.astrology-online.com/persn.htm Filmlover, that would be great if you could help with any questions regarding serials. And thanks for the link, there are lots of good titles to choose from on there. Now you're both our official Now Playing designer, and our serial historian.

Welcome to ... REVENGE OF THE TCM CHALLENGE! Whoever dares accept the Challenge must do so at his or her own peril, for the ?dead-line? is Midnight (EST), Sunday, December 9, 2006. The voting begins directly after, so choose your weapons carefully, as there can be only one survivor come the Witching Hour on Sunday, December 16, 2006. For all else, the end will be swift and painless. This Challenge?s themes ? Horror-scope Participants shall each choose a zodiac sign to act as the basis of his or her programming for one evening. However, this will affect the rest of your week?s schedule, as you must choose a week within that sign?s duration (Sun.-Sat.), which means you?ll also be selecting your birthday tributes that fall within that respective week. So, you may want to take that into consideration when choosing a sign. On the night that you program your zodiac movies, when possible, you can choose movies that literally depict that zodiac sign in likeness (or any one of its parts if it?s a hybrid), but they can also be based on any of the traits associated with that sign (artist, thinker, leader). They can also reflect whatever elemental properties the sign represents (earth, wind, fire, water). Your night?s choices may be an a la carte of all of the above; they don?t have to just pertain to a likeness, trait or element, you can mix them all up to make the night more interesting. But please give all of us an explanation of why you chose each movie, and what likeness, trait or element it represents. Below is a link to a website that explains all the astrological traits and elemental stuff. http://www.cjwinters.com/astrochars.html (no, I?m not into all this nonsense) Guest Programmer from the Grave With the guest programmer pool getting shallower as time goes on, and with less living classic stars and filmmaking veterans willing to come out of the shadows of retirement to present us with an evening of their favorites ? we?re left with little choice but to get the shovels out. Each one of you will dig up an actor, director, cinematographer, etc., anyone in the business who has passed, clean them up a little, and prop them in the chair across from Robert Osborne for a night. Granted, we don?t know what movies they would choose for an evening, so you can: a) Schedule a night of that person?s films (which helps if you have trouble choosing between stars for your star of the month). Or, schedule one or more movie of his or hers, and then use the rest of the night to program any movie within the TCM library that you want (or use one or more of your two premieres up). This would allow you to show your favorites without having to adhere to a set theme for the whole night, by passing them off as your guest programmer?s picks. (In the past Challenges there have been movies that I wanted to use, but they didn?t fit any of the themes I chose, and ones that I had to omit because I picked too many movies for a night?s theme and couldn?t fit them all into the time constraints. This may help out people who run into similar situations.) Saturday Serial Killers Although the Superman serials come to their demise in December, I?m resurrecting the concept of having weekly serials being shown on Saturdays, in the alternate reality that is ? the Challenge. So, each participant will choose five consecutive chapters (or episodes) of a serial to be shown on Saturday morning (10-11:30AM EST). You can choose any one you want regardless of whether it?s in the TCM library or not. I?m interested in seeing what everyone comes up with. I?m in the process of looking up a definitive website to offer reference for those of you who aren?t familiar with serials and the many titles. Coming very soon. (My theme titles are only meant to add a fun Halloween inspired twist to the Challenge?s rules, since I sat down and wrote this out today. You can all create your own theme titles in your schedules and not have to use Horror-scope, Guest Programmer from the Grave, etc., like we have been doing all along.) As stated, the deadline for this Challenge is Midnight on Sunday, December 9, 2006. This extra week is to make up for the time we?ll all be taking off during Thanksgiving. For everything else, the rules are the same from last time around, and from the Challenges prior to that. (I?m going to take my cue from Kyle and plagiarize him, as well as path40a and lzcutter) If anyone has any questions, feel free to ask in here or by PM. 1. Choose a Star of the Month - their films can consume one evening (usually 3-4 movies) 2. Have a theme for the other evenings (e.g. link at least 2, and preferably 4, films with some common attribute); each evening should begin at 8 PM ET. 3. Use tcmdb.com or imdb.com to get running times so that you don't exceed 24 hours/day of programming for the week. You can fill in the "blanks" with Private Screenings and/or other short features, which you don't have to list if you don't want to, but try not to exceed 10-20 minutes between films (lest you lose your audience) 4. For this Challenge, one can also program any film of one's choosing for the "Silent Sunday Nights" (12AM Sun. EST), "TCM Underground" (2AM, 4AM EST ? two movies back to back) and "TCM Imports" (2AM EST) without regard to having been previously shown on TCM. One is free to premiere any appropriate films for these showcases. 5. During the rest of the week, one can "premiere" two films to make their debuts on TCM. [That means altogether there?s the potential to choose 7 premieres counting the 2 regular premieres, 1 Silent Sunday, 2 Undergrounds, I Import and 1 serial] All other films during the week should come from the TCM "library" - MGM, RKO and pre-1949 Warner Bros. - or have been shown previously on TCM. 6. Choose a TCM Essential to run on Saturday night at 8 PM ET and Sunday night at 6 PM ET Optional (other things TCM staff members do regularly) 7. Recognize actor's birthdays and/or do other unannounced tributes and film linkages during some of the days 8. Provide some range of genres and/or release dates in your selections (e.g. Comedy, Western, Musical, Romance, Historical, Biographical, drama, noir, silent etc. & films from the 20's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, etc.) 9. Though the programming of past staples such as Darkness After Dawn, Syncopation Station and Lone Star Cinema seem to have been dropped, feel free to include them in your schedules. 10. Include some well-known classics like Oscar winners (or nominees) and/or movies that have been added to the National Film Registry (e.g. to draw new viewers to the channel) 11. Choose a TCM Essential to run on Saturday night at 8 PM ET and Sunday night at 6 PM ET 12. Consider including a film-related documentary during the week. 13. Feel free to use any public domain films to augment your schedule. 14. As for voting, as path40a first stated in the original Challenge voting rules, you have to have been a member as of the time of this Challenge?s announcement, 11/01/06 (All Saints Day), to be eligible to vote for this Challenge?s winner. Unless, of course, you?re a new member to the boards who decides to participate in the Challenge, and get your week?s schedule in by the 12/09/06 deadline. Voting will commence as of 12:01AM on 12/10/06, and end at 12AM on 12/16/06. Winning the Challenge will be a great early Christmas present, and hosting the next one will be a great New Year?s resolution (one that others will have to fulfill). ?Allez Cuisine!? The TCM Library References RKO Radio Pictures - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0041421/ Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0020206/ Warner Bros./First National - http://www.imdb.com/company/co0026840/ Further details on what studio/years comprise the library, courtesy of coffeedan: http://forums.turnerclassicmovies.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=67884&start=15&tstart=0 Birthdays by mongo: http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=12703&start=2925#206254 http://forums.tcm.com/jive/tcm/thread.jspa?threadID=82491&start=315

Thanks Kyle. I was just joking, and am glad that these will be available to own and whatever other goodies that may come with them.

Oh, no...you mean crass commercialism? I'm all for crass commercialism, except when it raises my hopes and just stomps on them. The T in TCM should stand for Teasing.

Rusty, I thought it had something to do with both my serials and your Hurrican Express serials, plus a couple of other threads on the subject, but filmlover pointed out that WB is releasing the Superman serials on DVD soon. These end in December, so I guess it's just to promote the DVDs. But if tcmprogrammer takes a look at this thread and the popularity of the serials expressed here, maybe they'll consider making them a regular part of the weekly programming. And I have to thank you Rusty, I forgot that Soupy Sales ever existed until you mentioned him. I guess that what happens when there's no more Merv Griffin or Mike Douglas shows. Gee, at my school the only celebrity we saw was Don from Lost in Space, but he was a substitute teacher and I guess that doesn't count. We drove him nuts asking him if he and Judy ever messed around in a closet on the Jupiter 2.

David Goyer who wrote and directed Blade:Trinity has written the script and will direct The Flash movie. Don't know when though. He says that Barry Allen and Wally West will both be in this movie, while there are also rumors that the first Flash, Jay Garrick will be The Flash in it.

It was great that they incorporated Brainiac and the Flash into the show, especially the race Barry and Clark had. They've also had Aquaman and Cyborg as guest characters. It's not so much that they've introduced more DC characters into the mix that made it less Dawson Creek-esque, it's probably the fact that the usual characters have either gotten real jobs or taken on more responsibilities, which is like kryptonite for the whole teen soap thing.

Now you'll have to tell us how to find you in that episode. You reminded me of The Sopranos where Christopher is looking at a house to buy and when he looks at one of them he says, "Whoa, stately Wayne Manor." I like the Lois on Smallville. The show has been getting more interesting since it's dropped its Dawson Creek element and is focusing more on other DC characters. If you don't watch it, the Green Arrow is on there for at least part of this season.

You're right filmlover, Lois did exist before the radio show, I think I was thinking about Jimmy Olsen. I've heard some of those Superman/Batman (and Robin) team-up radio shows. They're great.

A lot of people don't realize that a lot of today's Superman lore was born on the radio. The Daily Planet, Lois Lane, Perry White ... these aspects of the story were created for the radio adaptation of the comic, and stuck with all subsequent versions.

Those of you who liked these Superman serials, should contact TCM and ask them to make serials a permanent part of their Saturday schedule. There are so many great serials that cover so many genres, that TCM would never run out of fresh material. TCM should incorporate the serials because they are an important part of cinema history. My father talks about going to the movies as a kid in the 40s, and he remembers the experience of watching the serials more than the actual features shown with them. A lot of kids went to the movies just to see the serials and how they turned out, each week. I think they're just as important and legitimate as silent movies or any other genre that TCM showcases each week.

The new Challenge coming soon ...

Thanks sugarpuss, Glad your back online and back to the 21st century after getting a taste of frontier life. I hope you do have the time to participate in the next Challenge. Maybe you can incorporate some of your new swearing combinations into your schedule.

This is not to slight Betty, because I really like her, but I'm afraid she had a big insecurity problem going on during the shooting of Annie. I say this because Ethel Merman was basically a broadway star, she made a few films also, but why would the Hollywood co-stars and crew prefer a broadway person over one of their own? And as Bob said before the movie, this was Howard Keels' first starring musical role, so he certainly had no grand illusions about himself yet, in fact what she thought was dislike, was probably fear on his own part. She definitely was insecure, in general. In Osborne's interview she said that she was still terrified to do interviews. It could be an insecurity issue about Annie, but she mentioned that no one even applauded her after takes which was common practice, and I think still is. I get the feeling that Hutton and Garland had the same insecurity problems, only Hutton was able to tear herself away from the main component of that problem ... Hollywood. One interesting thing about the Ethel Merman rivalry was the line up of features that night. Like you said, there was Annie, which Merman did on Broadway. Then there were the anecdotes in the interview where Hutton said she wasn't invited to its premeire in NY because of Merman, and that of Merman bumping her only musical number that Hutton had when they appeared together on stage years before. Then they had The Stork Club on that night, where it was thought that Betty's character was having a fling with the owner, Sherman Billingsley. In real life, Merman was having a fling with the real Sherman Billingsley.

The thing I found interesting, and sad about her involvement in Annie Get Your Gun, was that the cast treated her so horribly. I never knew that. Also, she said most of Hollywood didn't like her because they thought she was sleeping with her producer. Even though she wasn't ... as if that was a novelty in Hollywood. Hutton seems like a better person than most from her era.

I'm glad you're In Like Flint for the next Challenge. I was thinking it would be best to do the next one in November because December would be chaos trying to fit it in for most people.

Thanks itsart2too2, The guest programmer idea was Kyle's brainchild and made this Challenge very enjoyable. If you count both Challengers and their guest programmers, this one had the most participants out of all the Challenges. I don't know if I'm going to use the guest programmer idea since it's been done, or if I'm going to come up with a variation of it. I haven't decided yet. We'll know on November first. Speaking of which, is that too early to start another one? I know much of the week of Thanksgiving will be blocked out by everyone, so we could add an extra week onto it and set the deadline the end of the first full week of December. That way for those posting later in the month, you have time to get the tryptophan from the turkey out of your system and the crazy uncle out of your house.