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Complaining


AndreaDoria
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Recently we've been talking about this, just a little bit, on several threads.  I would love a real discussion about the pros and cons of dissent, negativity, criticism or complaining, what ever you want to call it.

 

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My opinion is that criticism is vital for all art forms.  Most artists, be they  actors, painters, singers or "other," are either poor and unknown or worshipped and paid millions.  How do we decide who gets to be in which group, if not from public praise and criticism?

 

If all someone wants to read is praise then there are fan sites for that purpose.  I find those sites extremely boring even if I love the actor. I think, on this board where we watch and discuss all types of films, we should feel free to say, "I HATED IT!"  or, " I think she's overrated," or "He's a terrible actor," and let the  people who love them respond with all the vigor they can bring to the argument.  But just telling people not to complain?  We aren't children in the 'do be a smiley bee' world of Romper Room and we aren't criticizing your grandchildren, so give us a break.

 

As for specific criticism of TCM. We love it or we wouldn't be here.  They're getting a free test group in us and if we're complaining about the wine commercials,  or  the number of westerns,  or anything or anybody else, then they might actually benefit from knowing what we think.

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AndreaDoria--The exchange of opinions and praise/criticism of movies is why some of us are here.  Useful, directed criticism that brings about change is another.  Two minor examples,:  In one of the threads about Tiffany Vasquez (TV), several posters remarked she ought to look more relaxed, and should sit while introducing a film.  The Saturday after those posts, TV did just that; whether that helped or not I couldn't tell.  Second example: In 2015, ComCast in East TN showed Horrible prints of "Barry Lyndon"(BL) (1975).  I posted after each showing about the awful prints, and mentioned I turned the television away from TCM.  In the first showing of BL in 2016, ComCast showed a virtually New print.   I complained, and change was brought about--however unimportant/important.

 

Agreed, we love movies and TCM, and TCM gets free daily feedback from us about their programming, etc.  Criticism and praise belong on these boards.  If it's not movie related, there's always the Off-Topics forum.

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AD, I personally have never had a problem with others expressing an opinion about someone or something and either positively or negatively, however when they do and then later are challenged to give just a few reasons for their holding such opinions but instead just resort to the ol' "well, everybody's entitled to their opinion" stance and instead of giving those requested reasons, well, THAT'S the kind of thing that will result in my pretty much writing that person off as someone incapable of engaging in intelligent discourse and debate.

 

(...well, THAT and when they're constantly one of those "hot and cold" types where their opinion of whatever the subject might be is of the "extremely good" /"extremely bad" variety, and which to me shows a lack of the appreciation for any "grey area" of the subject, and which might result in a better understanding between those involved in any discourse/debate)

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Recently we've been talking about this, just a little bit, on several threads.  I would love a real discussion about the pros and cons of dissent, negativity, criticism or complaining, what ever you want to call it.

 

----------------------------------

 

My opinion is that criticism is vital for all art forms.  Most artists, be they  actors, painters, singers or "other," are either poor and unknown or worshipped and paid millions.  How do we decide who gets to be in which group, if not from public praise and criticism?

 

If all someone wants to read is praise then there are fan sites for that purpose.  I find those sites extremely boring even if I love the actor. I think, on this board where we watch and discuss all types of films, we should feel free to say, "I HATED IT!"  or, " I think she's overrated," or "He's a terrible actor," and let the  people who love them respond with all the vigor they can bring to the argument.  But just telling people not to complain?  We aren't children in the 'do be a smiley bee' world of Romper Room and we aren't criticizing your grandchildren, so give us a break.

 

As for specific criticism of TCM. We love it or we wouldn't be here.  They're getting a free test group in us and if we're complaining about the wine commercials,  or  the number of westerns,  or anything or anybody else, then they might actually benefit from knowing what we think.

Well said.   I think where criticism goes to far is when someone links their criticism to others;  e.g.  only a bozo can't see that Raft is a wooden stiff.      To me that type of 'linking' crosses into the troll territory,  especially when one does so at a forum where they know their opinion is a minority one (e.g. a 'we love Raft' thread).

 

As Dargo also said some degree of substance is useful;  Not to defend one's POV (that shouldn't be necessary), but to assist others in understanding the basis for one's POV.      

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In one of the threads about Tiffany Vasquez (TV), several posters remarked she ought to look more relaxed, and should sit while introducing a film.  The Saturday after those posts, TV did just that

 

Aren't those wraparounds filmed in advance? Probably weeks ahead. So she would have already recorded the segments where she appeared more relaxed, before people complained on the message boards. 

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Aren't those wraparounds filmed in advance? Probably weeks ahead. So she would have already recorded the segments where she appeared more relaxed, before people complained on the message boards. 

     I noticed that both Tiffany and Michael Feinstein took my advice and began to sit on the sofa while giving their

wraparounds. Now if they could only look more relaxed. Perhaps it will come in time.

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     I noticed that both Tiffany and Michael Feinstein took my advice and began to sit on the sofa while giving their

wraparounds. Now if they could only look more relaxed. Perhaps it will come in time.

 

Not sure if they're taking anyone's advice. I think they're just doing what feels natural as they become more comfortable hosting these segments.

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Not sure if they're taking anyone's advice. I think they're just doing what feels natural as they become more comfortable hosting these segments.

 

I was being facetious. I probably should have put an "LOL" at the end of my comment so viewers knew I was joking.

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Original Post: They're getting a free test group in us 


 


:D

 

Anyone who thinks corporate TCM is reading this message board for opinions is sadly mistaken.

That's why anyone should recognise midnight's comment was a joke.

 

It's actually really funny watching fans implode on internet message boards trying to impress who they think is reading....
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Original Post: They're getting a free test group in us 

 

:D
 
Anyone who thinks corporate TCM is reading this message board for opinions is sadly mistaken.
That's why anyone should recognise midnight's comment was a joke.
 
It's actually really funny watching fans implode on internet message boards trying to impress who they think is reading....

 

 

And isn't that what the TCM Inner Circle was all about?

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Original Post: They're getting a free test group in us 

 

:D
 
Anyone who thinks corporate TCM is reading this message board for opinions is sadly mistaken.
That's why anyone should recognise midnight's comment was a joke.
 
It's actually really funny watching fans implode on internet message boards trying to impress who they think is reading....

 

TCM has a staff of around 45 people, many of them in marketing.  I would be surprised if at least one of them isn't charged with keeping an eye on media responses, including the internet.   On the other hand, I seriously doubt if anyone is writing posts with the intention of impressing those people.  That's an invention of your own imagination -- something else that's  really funny.

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TCM has a staff of around 45 people, many of them in marketing.  I would be surprised if at least one of them isn't charged with keeping an eye on media responses, including the internet.   On the other hand, I seriously doubt if anyone is writing posts with the intention of impressing those people.  That's an invention of your own imagination -- something else that's  really funny.

 

Not exactly sure what you mean by 'impressing those people' but people here post recommendation about TCM's programming,  the ads, the host, etc...   assuming that someone that works for TCM reads these and passes them on to TCM decision makers.  Sound like the intention here is to impress (influence) TCM decision makers (those people).

 

E.g. someone recommends a specific film they want TCM to show.   After TCM shows the film, I have actually seen post from that same person saying 'hey, TCM listen to me and showed that film'    (I believe it is just a coincidence that the film was shown).    

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E.g. someone recommends a specific film they want TCM to show.   After TCM shows the film, I have actually seen post from that same person saying 'hey, TCM listen to me and showed that film'    (I believe it is just a coincidence that the film was shown).    

Hmmm ... what if there are no coincidences?  do do do do  ....

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     I noticed that both Tiffany and Michael Feinstein took my advice and began to sit on the sofa while giving their

wraparounds. Now if they could only look more relaxed. Perhaps it will come in time.

U think they changed because of U coments? LOL!

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Original Post: They're getting a free test group in us 

 

:D
 
Anyone who thinks corporate TCM is reading this message board for opinions is sadly mistaken.
That's why anyone should recognise midnight's comment was a joke.
 
It's actually really funny watching fans implode on internet message boards trying to impress who they think is reading....

 

Tikisoo is right as usuall lissen up.

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E.g. someone recommends a specific film they want TCM to show.   After TCM shows the film, I have actually seen post from that same person saying 'hey, TCM listen to me and showed that film'    (I believe it is just a coincidence that the film was shown).    

 

Yes, I smile at those comments. Most likely, it is nothing more than a happy coincidence. 

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Tikisoo is right as usuall lissen up.

All I said was that TCM had a free test group in us.  I didn' t say they were hanging on every word or even reading the boards (although I think it's possible) just that we were here and free of charge. 

 

How ever stupid my remark was, I thought it was rather  rude of Tiki Soo to quote it and laugh at it and go on to say how  funny some of us  are. 

 

 The two of you may well be "right as usual," but there are ways to disagree with some one without acting like Nelson Muntz..

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Not exactly sure what you mean by 'impressing those people' but people here post recommendation about TCM's programming,  the ads, the host, etc...   assuming that someone that works for TCM reads these and passes them on to TCM decision makers.  Sound like the intention here is to impress (influence) TCM decision makers (those people).

 

E.g. someone recommends a specific film they want TCM to show.   After TCM shows the film, I have actually seen post from that same person saying 'hey, TCM listen to me and showed that film'    (I believe it is just a coincidence that the film was shown).    

impressing like in showing off probly.

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Regardless of who may or may not be reading whatever is written, I agree with AndreaDoria completely.  Especially when someone's thoughtful response leads to my changing my mind on an actor's work in a particular movie or in a movie I can't seem to sit through.  I'll probably give it another chance if I read something intriguing enough.  Because I watch movies - I don't analyze them as I'm watching them and I like it when someone points out something I missed.  It's, as always, all in the way it's handled.  I tend to completely disregard comments that are rude.  Usually, I don't finish reading them because I'm looking for something else entirely, but not necessarily agreeing with my point of view.  Anyone who's raised a teenager knows when to quit listening.

 

So - I've always enjoyed the beauty of Robert Osborne's work -  he was there at the time when the actors we love were working .  He has that great knack of seeming to impart some little secret about a movie and the actors, and he only shares one or two at a time.  Then a couple of years later he would give us a little bit more introducing it again.  I don't mind either Ben M. or Tiffany, but we all know they weren't adults during that period or even alive yet.  It's that connection to the past that I miss now.  Also, he's very respectful at all times.  I notice the younger hosts tend to talk about themselves or interject bits about themselves, little asides that are not so great.  When Osborne did this it was from personal memory (as far as I an remember, correct me someone, if that's not true).  

 

You know, your Uncle Bob sure can't tell the family stories as great as grandpa could because he was only 5 when it occurred.  That sort of thing.  (my complaint for the day!) 

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My complaint is about not showing enough foreign films (in fact not showing them now for months), or showing them stealthily through the night, like the very welcome but impossible to watch Brigitte Bardot festival (the best movie Contempt shown at 5am).  OK, I thought, there is still ON Demand in Comcast- but the Contempt clearly never made the cut.  Moreover, it is not even on TCM.com>  Why is that?

 

Then I tried to see any of these movies on my TV through On Demand.  All of them I peculiarly listed to last 1 minute, and can't be marked to appear on my Recently Viewed list to resume watching.  OK, I thought, let's  just watch them one by one - but even this is impossible!   The sound is interrupted by the silence every 2 minutes or so, and instead of the beautiful French I was hoping to hear there are bits of pieces of sound.

 

Altogether, a very frustrating and unrewarding experience unworthy of the divine Brigitte, and a cultural desert for the viewers who like to see a foreign movie!

 

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AndreaDoria said:  I thought it was rather  rude of Tiki Soo to quote it and laugh at it and go on to say how  funny some of us  are.

 

I'm sorry you found my comment rude, that certainly wasn't my intention.

 

While it may seem logical (to us) the message board is a "test group" opportunity for TCM, corporations don't waste time on their loyal customers, they spend their energy trying to win new customers over, to strengthen the brand. 

 

I seriously doubt if anyone is writing posts with the intention of impressing those people. 

 

If you pay attention and read between the lines, you'll find some regular posters who want nothing more than to be "discovered" for their amazing talent and knowledge of classic film and invited as a guest host, research, reviewer or something or other. 

 

The Rupert Pupkins of the internet.

It's common in message boards - especially those in the entertainment industry. 

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I look at TCM this way....

 

I look at my cable guide "grid" to see what's on TCM that night.

 

If there's something that looks interesting to me, I'll tune in.

 

If not, then I don't.  Simple as that.

 

I have a favorite restaraunt.  I like the food and the choices on the menu.  There's eateries I DON'T care for.  Either due to my not having a taste for the particular cuisine, or there's not many choices on the menu.

 

Don't like a song playing on the radio?  Change the station, or put in a CD.  Same thing with television. 

 

And my mood at the time is another factor.  Maybe I'll watch TCM because there's a movie on I'm not familiar with but  figure there's no harm in checking it out.

 

And....WHO am I that TCM HAS to cater to my particular tastes and whims?  My Grandmother used to often cite:  "No one person should think themself the yardstick by which everyone else should be measured."   And I knew she meant that it goes for ME as well!

 

 

Sepiatone

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And....WHO am I that TCM HAS to cater to my particular tastes and whims?  My Grandmother used to often cite:  "No one person should think themself the yardstick by which everyone else should be measured."   And I knew she meant that it goes for ME as well!

 

 

Sepiatone

 

Yep Sepia! And MY mother used to tell ME regarding these same sort'a things, "Yeah. And people in Hell want ice water too, kid!"

 

She of course was ALSO the lady who used to tell me when the proper occasion had arisen, "Ya know. You ought'a be on the stage. There's one leaving tomorrow morning. Don't miss it."

 

(...ah yes, good ol' Mom...how I miss her shtick)

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