Jump to content

 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Sign in to follow this  
rayban

Horror Cinema's Scariest Children!

Recommended Posts

The film loses me with the kiss. I think it takes everything in another direction and the ghost story is radically redefined (but not in a way that totally makes sense). I was rather disappointed they'd resort to such a cheap stunt, especially since there is no evidence that this is what Henry James intended in the original source material. Made it seem like everything else in the movie was false, done to camouflage the fact they wanted to flirt with pedophilia. It's shocking and not in a very progressive way-- in a sick way.

Jarrod -

 

In the film, there is no question that Miles is a depraved child.

 

He was expelled from school, because he had "done things" to the other boys.

 

The kiss, I think, shows the lingering evil influence of the boy's tutor, Peter Quint.

 

It is Peter Quint, not Miles, who is kissing the governess.

 

Through Miles, Peter Quint is very much - "alive".

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jarrod -

 

In the film, there is no question that Miles is a depraved child.

 

He was expelled from school, because he had "done things" to the other boys.

 

The kiss, I think, shows the lingering evil influence of the boy's tutor, Peter Quint.

 

It is Peter Quint, not Miles, who is kissing the governess.

 

Through Miles, Peter Quint is very much - "alive".

 

Well, that's a way to look at it...but isn't it a stretch? I don't feel there's evidence in Henry James' original text that the tutor had been sexually demonstrative with the boy. The molestation angle seems to be a mid-20th century interpretation, and an idea the makers of the film apparently shared. But I don't think it's necessarily what James intended.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, that's a way to look at it...but isn't it a stretch? I don't feel there's evidence in Henry James' original text that the tutor had been sexually demonstrative with the boy. The molestation angle seems to be a mid-20th century interpretation, and an idea the makers of the film apparently shared. But I don't think it's necessarily what James intended.

We don't know what kind of "relationship" Quint had with the boy- there are hints of perverse sexuality-Quint is evil and likes to enjoy corrupting all innocents.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eloy de la Iglesia directed an adaptation of  " the Innocents"  in which he the governess is now played by a man.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't know what kind of "relationship" Quint had with the boy- there are hints of perverse sexuality-Quint is evil and likes to enjoy corrupting all innocents.  

 

We don't exactly know if his corrupting of innocents had anything to do with sex. That's a modern interpretation. He could have enjoyed giving children sweet foods they shouldn't eat. Instead of pedophilia, the haunting could be related to childhood obesity. We can take any work-- by an author who is no longer alive to defend his or her writing-- and transpose our own ideas about evil on to it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eloy de la Iglesia directed an adaptation of  " the Innocents"  in which he the governess is now played by a man.

Eloy De La Iglesia was notable for his contributions to gay cinema.

 

And he had a long association with Gonzalo Goicoechea, with whom he co-wrote several films.

 

He and GG produced a highly controversial version of "The Turn of The Screw".        

 

He is best-known in this country for his 1978 film, "The Deputy".

 

He is also responsible for Spain's first openly gay film, "Hidden Pleasures" (1976).

 

THE EXTREMELY GIFTED SPANISH FILM DIRECTOR HIMSELF -

 

iglesia_eloy_1.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't exactly know if his corrupting of innocents had anything to do with sex. That's a modern interpretation. He could have enjoyed giving children sweet foods they shouldn't eat. Instead of pedophilia, the haunting could be related to childhood obesity. We can take any work-- by an author who is no longer alive to defend his or her writing-- and transpose our own ideas about evil on to it.

Yes I agree that we are looking at the story through a 21st century perspective- but that is what makes Henry James novel such a classic - the ghost are  acting out their perverse relationship by using the children- a supernatural form of  abuse which is truly chilling -

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I agree that we are looking at the story through a 21st century perspective- but that is what makes Henry James novel such a classic - the ghost are  acting out their perverse relationship by using the children- a supernatural form of  abuse which is truly chilling -

 

I'm still not sure if perverse is the right word. I see it as a story about fear and manipulation. Not exactly perversity.

 

Sometimes we (as audiences) are trying to find things in the texts that aren't there or were never intended to be found. Of course, Hollywood is known for loose adaptations and re-workings. But there's something to be said about being authentic and true to the source material. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a classic short story - and Henry James does not spell it all out in no uncertain terms - but it is certainly open to all kinds of interpretation - and let us not forget that it was adapted for the stage by William Archibald (a gay man) and it was adapted for the screen by Archibald and Truman Capote (another gay man).

 

But the ghosts are very "real" - and the governess wants that relationship with the uncle.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My feeling about the Eloy De La Eglesia version of "The Turn of the Screw" is that it is probably a lot gayer than Jack Clayton's "The Innocents".

 

Otra_vuelta_de_tuerca-559214664-large.jp

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a classic short story - and Henry James does not spell it all out in no uncertain terms - but it is certainly open to all kinds of interpretation - and let us not forget that it was adapted for the stage by William Archibald (a gay man) and it was adapted for the screen by Archibald and Truman Capote (another gay man).

 

But the ghosts are very "real" - and the governess wants that relationship with the uncle.

The ghost are real - but the movie (not the book) is a psychological horror about how the governess is projecting her own desires on to the children- specially Miles

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My feeling about the Eloy De La Eglesia version of "The Turn of the Screw" is that it is probably a lot gayer than Jack Clayton's "The Innocents".

 

Otra_vuelta_de_tuerca-559214664-large.jp

I saw it and the male governess angle doesn't quite work- there is a lot of Catholic guilt and yes some gay subtext- Iglesias did have an eye for male beauty

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw it and the male governess angle doesn't quite work- there is a lot of Catholic guilt and yes some gay subtext- Iglesias did have an eye for male beauty

How did you manage to see it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree, Eloy De La Iglesia did have an eye for male beauty -

 

"THE DEPUTY" - his first release in the United States -

 

hidden-pleasures.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Corey Feldman as little Tommy Jarvis in "Friday The 13th: The Final Chapter" -

 

yes, little Tommy Jarvis did manage to kill Jason -

 

friday-the-13th-the-final-chapter.png?w=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How did you manage to see it?

I saw it on some Spanish language movie channel- was it ever released in English?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw it on some Spanish language movie channel- was it ever released in English?

No, I do not think so.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jarrod -

 

In the film, there is no question that Miles is a depraved child.

 

He was expelled from school, because he had "done things" to the other boys.

 

The kiss, I think, shows the lingering evil influence of the boy's tutor, Peter Quint.

 

It is Peter Quint, not Miles, who is kissing the governess.

 

Through Miles, Peter Quint is very much - "alive".

Yes, I felt that Miles was acting out of what he had seen and been taught by Quint. All of his flirting and the shocking kiss were behaviors he had been taught to adopt by a man he looked up to and wanted to be like. Perhaps after the sudden death of this "father-figure" in his life and the trauma of finding his dead body, Miles tried harder than ever to be like Quint and was simply being affected by the ordeal. By the end I was convinced that some situations may have even been exaggerated in the governess's mind. I don't think the children were being controlled by ghosts, only that the children missed Quint and Miss Jessel (explains why Flora was dancing by the lake, she just missed her old governess) and were acting out because of bad behaviors they had learned while the two were still alive.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I saw a magnificent production of a revival of the play on Broadway that was directed by Harold Pinter and starred Claire Bloom.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't exactly know if his corrupting of innocents had anything to do with sex. That's a modern interpretation. He could have enjoyed giving children sweet foods they shouldn't eat. Instead of pedophilia, the haunting could be related to childhood obesity. We can take any work-- by an author who is no longer alive to defend his or her writing-- and transpose our own ideas about evil on to it.

I did not feel that the movie was hinting at abuse, I had gotten the impression that Quint and Miss Jessel had been engaging in innapropriate activities right in front of the children and that Quint had taught Miles some course language during the time they spent together, but not that he had done anything to Miles, only that he and Miss Jessel had been rather indiscreet. However, the film is very ambiguous and open to interpretation, I think that's what makes it so good, it can be pondered and discussed and there are many different ways to see it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I felt that Miles was acting out of what he had seen and been taught by Quint. All of his flirting and the shocking kiss were behaviors he had been taught to adopt by a man he looked up to and wanted to be like. Perhaps after the sudden death of this "father-figure" in his life and the trauma of finding his dead body, Miles tried harder than ever to be like Quint and was simply being affected by the ordeal. By the end I was convinced that some situations may have even been exaggerated in the governess's mind. I don't think the children were being controlled by ghosts, only that the children missed Quint and Miss Jessel (explains why Flora was dancing by the lake, she just missed her old governess) and were acting out because of bad behaviors they had learned while the two were still alive.

Yes, I agree with you, the children aren't being controlled by the ghosts, but the ghosts are ever-present in their minds and lives.

 

You do have to wonder, though - if the uncle had cared about the children, and been deeply involved in their lives, would there had been a Peter Quint and a Miss Jessel?

 

The fact that Jack Clayton got Michael Redgrave to play the part causes me to think that Jack Clayton laid a lot of blame at the uncle's doorstep.

 

Not only in terms of the children's long and on-going neglect but in terms of the governess' need to make an impression on the uncle.

 

Perhaps he is the real "villain" of the piece.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I agree with you, the children aren't being controlled by the ghosts, but the ghosts are ever-present in their minds and lives.

 

You do have to wonder, though - if the uncle had cared about the children, and been deeply involved in their lives, would there had been a Peter Quint and a Miss Jessel?

 

The fact that Jack Clayton got Michael Redgrave to play the part causes me to think that Jack Clayton laid a lot of blame at the uncle's doorstep.

 

Not only in terms of the children's long and on-going neglect but in terms of the governess' need to make an impression on the uncle.

 

Perhaps he is the real "villain" of the piece.  

"The Innocents" is a psychological horror movie/ghost story.  It all depends on the viewer are the ghost possessing the children or the children just acting out the dead humans behavior.  If you see a staging of Britten's opera based on the book- the sexual nature of Quints and Mile relationship is more explicit. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody seemed interested in my post about Corey Feldman - he was cast as little Tommy Jarvis in "Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter".

 

And the franchise chose a child to kill off Jason Voorhees!

 

Given the violent nature of the franchise, I find it very interesting that the filmmakers chose a little boy to kill off such a maniacal creature.

 

Perhaps that choice seemed really and truly SCARY.

 

friday13th42.jpg?w=625

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nobody seemed interested in my post about Corey Feldman - he was cast as little Tommy Jarvis in "Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter".

 

I didn't comment on it, because I haven't seen that particular film. But I like Corey Feldman.

 

I lived on the same street as Corey back in 2003-2004. That's when I was on North Harper in West Hollywood. I'd walk my Pomeranian to a nearby dog park, and sometimes he'd be pulling up in his car. His apartment building was three down from mine. I talked to a lot of actors and musicians in that neighborhood, but I never went up and talked to him-- probably because he usually seemed in a hurry or else a bit distracted.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't comment on it, because I haven't seen that particular film. But I like Corey Feldman.

 

I lived on the same street as Corey back in 2003-2004. That's when I was on North Harper in West Hollywood. I'd walk my Pomeranian to a nearby dog park, and sometimes he'd be pulling up in his car. His apartment building was three down from mine. I talked to a lot of actors and musicians in that neighborhood, but I never went up and talked to him-- probably because he usually seemed in a hurry or else a bit distracted.

Did you ever read his book on his life in Hollywood - "Coreyography"?

 

And will he ever reveal the name of the man who raped a very young Corey Haim.

 

I am sure that Hollywood insiders know this pathetic individual's name.

 

Supposedly, he still maintains an elevated status in Hollywood circles.

 

Natalie Wood was raped as a young woman by a top Hollywood star.

 

And her mother told her that she must never reveal the name of this man.

 

Or else her film career would probably be destroyed.

 

Corey Feldman might feel the same way about revealing the name of Corey Haim's rapist.

 

I recently saw Corey Haim in "Murphy's Romance".

 

And I just felt that it was a shame that such a lovely child could have been "tainted" in this way.

 

According to Corey Feldman, the amount of men in Hollywood who like young boys would actually surprise you.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

© 2020 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...