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TomJH

Racism in Trump's America

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Trump is very consistent in giving his honest opinion, for example immediately after the Merck guy quit, etc. I think we can assume that Trump's honest opinion was given on Saturday -- meaning no criticism of his support base: Nazis, K K K, and white supremacists. 

 

That's one thing we know: Trump's real feelings are the immediate ones; not the somewhat more civilized ones that someone obliges him to do and that he grudgingly gives later.

 

I agree.   To me the open question is how will the deplorable members of his base interpret his conflicting comments.   My guess is most will assume Trump still supports them and only called them out because the evil media and RHIOs pushed him to say insincere comments  (especially if he doesn't fire Bannon).  

 

So I assume most people on 'many sides' will assume Trump's latest comments are insincere,  but for very different reasons.  

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I just saw this article:

 

North Carolina woman confronts man flying Nazi flag at his home

 

A North Carolina woman who confronted a man flying a Nazi flag outside of his home says she felt the need to stand up to his show of hate in the wake of violence that erupted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.
 

 

 

Thoughts? I'm conflicted: Yeah, the guy is deplorable for flying the Nazi flag, but it is his right to do so on his property. The woman who confronted him also posted his home address and work address so that others could harass him. These tactics I cannot condone or agree with.

 

I thought it was amusing when he was later asked by a reporter why he flew the Nazi flag, he said because his two previous Confederate flags were stolen, so he replaced them with the Nazi flag since no one wants it!

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WAIT! Did I just hear Jimmy Dore here say, "Do YOU think it's possible that Obama supporters and Trump supporters, SOMETIMES THE VERY SAME PEOPLE, can get together and...." ???

 

REALLY?!!!

 

Gee Jimmy, I wonder not ONLY how freakin' infinitesimal THAT number of people might be, BUT also why you'd even think mentioning such a questionable "statistic" should even be MADE???

 

Oh, THAT'S right. It's so you can once again use such a questionable thought in service to that questionable anti-establishment on-going rant of yours that "there's no real difference at all between the two major American political parties".

 

(...well dude, this just goes to show ya why EVERY freakin' time somebody around here posts some video of yours, I find your tired old shtick less and less impressive)

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I just saw this article:

 

North Carolina woman confronts man flying Nazi flag at his home

 

A North Carolina woman who confronted a man flying a Nazi flag outside of his home says she felt the need to stand up to his show of hate in the wake of violence that erupted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.
 

 

 

Thoughts? I'm conflicted: Yeah, the guy is deplorable for flying the Nazi flag, but it is his right to do so on his property. The woman who confronted him also posted his home address and work address so that others could harass him. These tactics I cannot condone or agree with.

 

I thought it was amusing when he was later asked by a reporter why he flew the Nazi flag, he said because his two previous Confederate flags were stolen, so he replaced them with the Nazi flag since no one wants it!

 

So, bottom line here...this freakin' hillbilly SOMEHOW believes that flying a flag outside his home which he SAYS doesn't represent his thoughts or opinions is a rational thing to do, huh?!

 

(...man...some freakin' "patriots" we have in this country, HUH?!...well, I sure as hell hope there are at least SOME self-professed "patriots" in this country who are rational and educated enough to know that two plus freakin' two ISN'T and NEVER will be five!!!)

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A North Carolina woman who confronted a man flying a Nazi flag outside of his home says she felt the need to stand up to his show of hate in the wake of violence that erupted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.

 

Thoughts? I'm conflicted: Yeah, the guy is deplorable for flying the Nazi flag, but it is his right to do so on his property. The woman who confronted him also posted his home address and work address so that others could harass him. These tactics I cannot condone or agree with.

 

I thought it was amusing when he was later asked by a reporter why he flew the Nazi flag, he said because his two previous Confederate flags were stolen, so he replaced them with the Nazi flag since no one wants it!

 

I'm not so conflicted about that. I think the "I-don't-agree-with-you-but-I'll-defend-to-the-death-your-right-to-do-it" has gotten out of hand. On the other hand, if he has the right to put up a symbol for all to see, that is the symbol of an entity that killed thousands of Americans and other allies; then she has that same right to post his addresses.

 

Many of those right wingers are originalists when it comes to the U.S. Constitution. There was not unlimited freedom of speech in that time, so by those standards, it's ok to limit certain expressions.

 

I also think that all the privacy stuff that people talk about relative to the Constitution is via loose interpretation. It's not explicit, so that she's free to post his information. His flag, which can be seen beyond his property, incites people; her posting of his information may do the same.

 

Think of it like a bad smell on his property, or a gas leak: it may be on his property, but its implications go beyond.

 

Germany is a free society, but they do ban much of the paraphernalia of naziism, even though many of their soldiers died in World War II. We should do the same with the symbols of Naziism, and of the Confederacy. 

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I also think that all the privacy stuff that people talk about relative to the Constitution is via loose interpretation. It's not explicit, so that she's free to post his information. His flag, which can be seen beyond his property, incites people; her posting of his information may do the same.

 

Think of it like a bad smell on his property, or a gas leak: it may be on his property, but its implications go beyond.

 

I also considered this. Like a neighborhood association thing, or property value issues, where a city or county can issue citations if the conditions on your property have a negative effect on the property around it. Going after him in that way I can go along with.

 

I also read elsewhere today about the online effort to sift through the photos of the event in Charlottesville and ID any of the Unite the Right marchers, and then to try and get them fired from their jobs, or kicked out of their schools, or in any other way publicly shame them. 

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"This is a portrait of the most common Obama-to-Trump voter: a white American who wants government intervention in the economy but holds negative, even prejudiced, views toward racial, ethnic, and religious minorities. In 2012, these voters seemed to value economic liberalism over a white, Christian identity and backed Obama over Romney. By 2016, the reverse was true: Thanks to Trump’s campaign, and the events of the preceding years, they valued that identity over economic assistance."

 

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/voter_study_group_and_why_obama_voters_defected_to_trump.html

 

This group sounds familiar...

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“Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.” 

― Groucho Marx

 

 

Hmmm...lemme see if I can now squirm my way out of this little corner I've seemed to have painted myself into here, HIGHWAY.

 

I, AND Jimmy said Obama and Trump "SUPPORTERS", now didn't we?! And so, there's a BIG difference between someone who might cast their vote while holding their nose for a candidate AND those who "support", as in actively, such a candidate, RIGHT?!

 

Take ME for instance. I voted for Hillary while "holding my nose", but I would NEVER call myself a "supporter" of her's.

 

(...so how'd I do?...and btw, thanks for the Groucho quote there, dude)

 

;)

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Hmmm...lemme see if I can now squirm my way out of this little corner I've seemed to have painted myself into here, HIGHWAY.

 

I, AND Jimmy said Obama and Trump "SUPPORTERS", now didn't we?! And so, there's a BIG difference between someone who might cast their vote while holding their nose for a candidate AND those who "support", as in actively, such a candidate, RIGHT?!

 

Take ME for instance. I voted for Hillary while "holding my nose", but I would NEVER call myself a "supporter" of her's.

 

(...so how'd I do?...and btw, thanks for the Groucho quote there, dude)

 

;)

 

Dargo--

 

You're a man after me own nose clip.

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Guy hears about a poll and believes it without question.

Too funny.

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HIGHWAY--the "crossover' voters story was covered by the mainstream website centerforpolitics.org in June 2017--the estimates from your posted video (9.2 million) to the websites estimate (8.4 million) vary, but regardless, I hope they are happy with the fool they helped elect.

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A new generation of white supremacists is emerging — and they are 'very good at organizing'-

 

"....A large number have adopted a very clean cut, frat-boyish look designed to appeal to the average white guy in a way that **** robes or **** regalia never could. Interviews show that at least some of these leaders have spent time in the U.S. armed forces.

 

Many belong to new organizations like Vanguard America, Identity Evropa, the Traditionalist Workers Party and True Cascadia, which have seen their numbers expand dramatically in the past year. Most of these groups view themselves as part of a broader “alt-right” movement that represents the extreme edge of right-wing politics in the U.S.

 

These organizations exhibited unprecedented organization and tactical savvy.......

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/a-new-generation-of-highly-organized-white-supremacists-is-emerging-2017-8

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I also considered this. Like a neighborhood association thing, or property value issues, where a city or county can issue citations if the conditions on your property have a negative effect on the property around it. Going after him in that way I can go along with.

 

I also read elsewhere today about the online effort to sift through the photos of the event in Charlottesville and ID any of the Unite the Right marchers, and then to try and get them fired from their jobs, or kicked out of their schools, or in any other way publicly shame them. 

 

So who determines what type of symbol or flag will have a negative effect on surrounding property values?     E.g.   couldn't people in a neighborhood claim a BLM flag has a negative effect?    As Israeli flag?   A Palestinian flag?    A cross?    A PETA flag?  etc.... 

 

I wouldn't want local city or county officials to decide and of course neighbors can't be the arbitrator

 

Note that this was an issue a CA colleges.   Jewish students claimed the Palestinian flag was offensive to them.   This lead to any showing of support for the plight of Palestinians being deeded offensive to Jewish students.     Luckily the Jewish activists didn't prevail but they are still trying to use the 'if it is offensive to us,  it is a hate crime' to ensure pro-Palestinian voices are silenced and pro-Palestinian students and teachers kicked out of the school only for their political views.

 

So to me this sounds all to similar to the law Congress proposed that would make it a crime to participate in an economic boycott of Israel (something you were against if I recall correctly).

 

In addition passing such laws plays right into the hands of the alt-right:  they cry under the BS claim that the laws are stacked against them.   BUT if such laws are passed that violate their 1st amendment rights,   that claim would no longer be BS.  

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So who determines what type of symbol or flag will have a negative effect on surrounding property values?     E.g.   couldn't people in a neighborhood claim a BLM flag has a negative effect?    As Israeli flag?   A Palestinian flag?    A cross?    A PETA flag?  etc.... 

 

I wouldn't want local city or county officials to decide and of course neighbors can't be the arbitrator

 

Note that this was an issue a CA colleges.   Jewish students claimed the Palestinian flag was offensive to them.   This lead to any showing of support for the plight of Palestinians being deeded offensive to Jewish students.     Luckily the Jewish activists didn't prevail but they are still trying to use the 'if it is offensive to us,  it is a hate crime' to ensure pro-Palestinian voices are silenced and pro-Palestinian students and teachers kicked out of the school only for their political views.

 

So to me this sounds all to similar to the law Congress proposed that would make it a crime to participate in an economic boycott of Israel (something you were against if I recall correctly).

 

In addition passing such laws plays right into the hands of the alt-right:  they cry under the BS claim that the laws are stacked against them.   BUT if such laws are passed that violate their 1st amendment rights,   that claim would no longer be BS.  

 

Yes, what you say is what I was getting at with my initial posting of the story. I think most (I would hope all, but who knows) of us can agree that Nazism is reprehensible and that we don't want it around us. And so it makes it easier for people to take what would otherwise be viewed as drastic action in order to combat it. My worry when it comes to issues of punishing speech and expression has always been what if the paradigm shifts and something that you don't consider as reprehensible as Nazism becomes the next target by an empowered group. The proposed law against boycotting Israel is a great example, as I am 100% in support of that boycott as long as the current treatment of Palestinians continues, but some are trying to make that a crime.

 

Nazism and racism are abhorrent and anathema to me, but unless specific illegal actions are taken, I have trouble treating them as a crime. I was speaking to someone earlier this evening about this issue, and they have the opposite view. They think that these groups have been allowed to fester and grow for too long as it is, and that action should be taken to crush them, either through labeling them terrorist groups and prosecuting them as such, or some other, extreme measures. When I brought up the "what if..." scenario, she said she didn't care, that some groups and ideas were too repugnant to be allowed in the public arena. And I responded that that kind of attitude will of course lead to more violence, to which she replied that violence used to destroy evil was justified and necessary, now as it was in 1941. And just to clarify, this person is not an angry or violent person. But that's the kind of thinking that is being generated by this debate.

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Yes, what you say is what I was getting at with my initial posting of the story. I think most (I would hope all, but who knows) of us can agree that Nazism is reprehensible and that we don't want it around us. And so it makes it easier for people to take what would otherwise be viewed as drastic action in order to combat it. My worry when it comes to issues of punishing speech and expression has always been what if the paradigm shifts and something that you don't consider as reprehensible as Nazism becomes the next target by an empowered group. The proposed law against boycotting Israel is a great example, as I am 100% in support of that boycott as long as the current treatment of Palestinians continues, but some are trying to make that a crime.

 

Nazism and racism are abhorrent and anathema to me, but unless specific illegal actions are taken, I have trouble treating them as a crime. I was speaking to someone earlier this evening about this issue, and they have the opposite view. They think that these groups have been allowed to fester and grow for too long as it is, and that action should be taken to crush them, either through labeling them terrorist groups and prosecuting them as such, or some other, extreme measures. When I brought up the "what if..." scenario, she said she didn't care, that some groups and ideas were too repugnant to be allowed in the public arena. And I responded that that kind of attitude will of course lead to more violence, to which she replied that violence used to destroy evil was justified and necessary, now as it was in 1941. And just to clarify, this person is not an angry or violent person. But that's the kind of thinking that is being generated by this debate.

so what is the difference between your friend and the alt-right white nationalists who also believe that their violence is justifiable for their cause?

 

I wonder what her views on freedom of expression and assembly are. :lol:

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They have now found definitive documentation from 1927 showing that Fred Trump was arrested during his participation at a K K K demonstration/riot in Queens, NY.

 

Life father, like son.  

 

Trump-KKK-wonkette.jpg

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I just saw this article:

 

North Carolina woman confronts man flying Nazi flag at his home

 

A North Carolina woman who confronted a man flying a Nazi flag outside of his home says she felt the need to stand up to his show of hate in the wake of violence that erupted during a white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.
 

 

 

Thoughts? I'm conflicted: Yeah, the guy is deplorable for flying the Nazi flag, but it is his right to do so on his property. The woman who confronted him also posted his home address and work address so that others could harass him. These tactics I cannot condone or agree with.

 

I thought it was amusing when he was later asked by a reporter why he flew the Nazi flag, he said because his two previous Confederate flags were stolen, so he replaced them with the Nazi flag since no one wants it!

 

Well if he can't fly his, she shouldn't fly hers.  First Amendment rules in this country (leftist thinks it ONLY applies to them)

 

I'm not condoling that hateful symbol though! :angry:

 

 

By the way shouldn't people find the red flag just as disgusting?

 

flag.jpg

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Well if he can't fly his, she shouldn't fly hers. First Amendment rules in this country (leftist thinks it ONLY applies to them)

 

I'm not condoling that hateful symbol though! :angry:

 

 

By the way shouldn't people find the red flag just as disgusting?

 

flag.jpg

 

 

Tsk, tsk-- So now you're a big proponent of freedom of speech.

 

Next you'll be saying it's okay to burn the American flag.

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Tsk, tsk-- So now you're a big proponent of freedom of speech.

 

Next you'll be saying it's okay to burn the American flag.

 

I don't like flag burning but...

 

Excerpt...

 

Currently, flag burning is not illegal in the United States.  The Supreme Court of the United States in its decision from 1969 has ruled that the burning of the flag is protected by the First Amendment. However, the person who burnt the flag can be found guilty of a misdemeanor for starting a fire without a permit.

 

http://helawdictionary.org/article/is-flag-burning-illegal/

 

 

If this becomes the law of the land then it's a different matter.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Desecration_Amendment

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