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Racism in Trump's America


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1 minute ago, NipkowDisc said:

I do not fear such a great joy. I utterly reject the nonsense that I if I support trump I am a racist. I do not believe he is one either. it is a very short-sighted mistake to defend the aquad because they are anti-Israel and pro-terrorist.

it is not anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel but it is rather anti-American to be anti-Israel. deplorables have long understood that

in a few days these four women will again be disrespecting Nancy Pelosi which is very funny.

:D

You don't like the US elected leaders;   you should go back to where you came! 

Oh,  and it isn't anti-American to be anti-Israel.   AND you're doing the same as the squad here;   labeling someone with a negative label because you disagree with their policy stance;  you just call folks anti-American while the squad calls people racist.

 

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3 hours ago, Princess of Tap said:

The mooch is a proud Italian American.

He used to show up on Chris Cuomo's (another proud Italian-American) show every once

in a while but I haven't seen him lately. Maybe he went into the olive oil business.

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1 hour ago, NipkowDisc said:

I do not fear such a great joy. I utterly reject the nonsense that if I support trump I am a racist. I do not believe he is one either. it is a very short-sighted mistake to defend the squad because they are anti-Israel and pro-terrorist.

it is not anti-Semitic to be anti-Israel but it is rather anti-American to be anti-Israel. deplorables have long understood that

in a few days these four women will again be disrespecting Nancy Pelosi which is very funny.

:D

I'm a Democrat progressive realist. As an American Jew proud of his heritage but not religious, I don't want to get into the whole Israel situation, because it is way more complicated than anyone realizes, and I resent non-Jews making political capital out of it.

I do think, however, that Trump is shrewd in forcing (the great) Nancy Pelosi into defending the four women. In a practical political sense, the state of Florida is important to whomever wants to win a national election. For Democrats to win the state, they need a huge turnout from and the support of the large Jewish community in the southeast of the state. Those are older people, who remember the holocaust. They're smart people, and they would on the one hand understand that Nancy Pelosi had to defend the four women. But on the other hand, it is a reminder to them that these far-left women represent something that they are wary of. And as a result, the Democrats may just have lost Florida and the 2020 election.

 

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Trump Is Most Racist President Since Andrew Johnson, Says Historian Jon Meacham

"....... Meacham, who has written several presidential biographies, was reacting on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews to Trump's racist tweet about progressive Democratic congresswomen..........

 

"It's long been said, President Reagan said it quite well, that America is the one place on earth that is not about a birthright. It's about the ascent to an idea," Meacham said.

"An idea that was written in one of the most important sentences ever in the English language, that all men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

"We didn't apply that fully then, we haven't applied it fully now. But that journey towards a more perfect union is the story of the country.

"And what the president's done here is, yet again, because he did it after Charlottesville and I think he did it, frankly, when he was pushing the birther lie about President Obama,

is he has joined Andrew Johnson as the most racist president in American history."

Meacham cited Johnson's state message that "African-Americans were incapable of self-government and relapsed into barbarism if they weren't closely supervised." ...........

 

Meacham pushed back against the criticism of Trump that his remarks are un-American, saying the country must take responsibility for the president it elected.

"When people say, 'This isn't who we are,' that's not true. It is who we are.

It's who we are on our worst day and it's pointless to try to expiate ourselves from what Trump has been saying," Meacham said.

"There is a complicity, there is a national complicity in this, and the way America moves forward is 51 percent of the time we're with Lincoln instead of Andrew Johnson."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-racist-president-andrew-johnson-historian-tweet-1449449?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&utm_source=Twitter

<_<

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12 hours ago, Swithin said:

I'm a Democrat progressive realist. As an American Jew proud of his heritage but not religious, I don't want to get into the whole Israel situation, because it is way more complicated than anyone realizes, and I resent non-Jews making political capital out of it.

I resent Jewish Americans telling non-Jewish Americans that we don't have a right to be against Israel.   Israel is NOT part of the USA and isn't a secular nation.   The USA should only support secular nations. 

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44 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I recent Jewish Americans telling non-Jewish Americans that we don't have a right to be against Israel.   Israel is NOT part of the USA and isn't a secular nation.   The USA should only support secular nations. 

That's not what I wrote. (Btw, Did you mean resent?) Having opinions about it and expressing them is different from making political capital about it.  Btw, Israel is a secular democracy, those there are religious fundamentals who would prefer that Israel would be a formally religious state -- just as some evangelicals would prefer that the United States be a formally religious state.

It's the inconsistency that I think troubles a lot of Jews. Where is the outrage against India for the way they treat their "scheduled" tribes? There is actually a whole group fighting on behalf of the tribes: the Naxalites. Other countries are similarly nasty; but it is Israel that seems to take center stage in the discussion. The bottom line is that Christians have a deeply -- and almost unconscious -- need for every Jew to be like their favorite Jew: Jesus. And so when Jews behave just like everyone else, it touches a very deep nerve.

As Shakespeare so brilliantly wrote in the words he gave to Shylock: "The villainy you teach me I will execute."

 

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2 minutes ago, Swithin said:

That's not what I wrote. (Btw, Did you mean resent?) Having opinions about it and expressing them is different from making political capital about it.  Btw, Israel is a secular democracy, those there are religious fundamentals who would prefer that Israel would be a formally religious state -- just as some evangelicals would prefer that the United States be a formally religious state.

It's the inconsistency that I think troubles a lot of Jews. Where is the outrage against India for the way they treat their "scheduled" tribes? There is actually a whole group fighting on behalf of the tribes: the Naxalites. Other countries are similarly nasty; but it is Israel that seems to take center stage in the discussion. The bottom line is that Christians have a deeply -- and almost unconscious -- need for every Jew to be like their favorite Jew: Jesus. And so when Jews behave just like everyone else, it touches a very deep nerve.

As Shakespeare so brilliantly wrote in the words he gave to Shylock: "The villainy you teach me I will execute."

 

I know you are very knowledgeable so I'm surprised that here you act so clueless.  Here in the USA Israel gets more criticisms than India for treatment of minorities,  because Israel is like the 51st state while India is just a far off country.     That was my overall point;  Israel does take center stage in US political discussion.   To me Israel is just another country.     With the EU Israel should take center-stage since select EU countries are responsible for the entire 'mess'  (mainly Germany and Britain).    

The only reason the USA treats Israel like the 51st state is because of myth loving Christians that believe in some so called second coming.     

 

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

    With the EU Israel should take center-stage since select EU countries are responsible for the entire 'mess'  (mainly Germany and Britain).    

The EU should send all the Salafists to Israel. Let Netenyahu deal with them.

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1 hour ago, hamradio said:

Like an atheist explain how this most tiny of nations originally surrounded by enemies- GREATLY outnumbered manage to win lop sided wars and still exist today.  By all logic this country shouldn't be around.  No American soldier has ever fought any of their wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel

israel_and_the_arab-israeli_conflict_-_b

EU Christians created this new country as a way to deal with their guilt for killing millions of Jews.    Muslims didn't cause the Holocaust. 

 

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16 hours ago, NipkowDisc said:

I do not fear such a great joy. I utterly reject the nonsense that if I support trump I am a racist. I do not believe he is one either. it is a very short-sighted mistake to defend the squad because they are anti-Israel and pro-terrorist.

You may not be a racist but by supporting Trump you enable him to spread his racist message across the land, divide people and give rise to his fellow racists which is a great danger to society.  Let's face it, the white supremacists in America love Trump for a reason.  Now they can all come out of the woodwork.  Any Trump supporter should be ashamed of themselves for this reason alone.

And calling the squad pro-terrorist is ridiculous trolling.

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I know you are very knowledgeable so I'm surprised that here you act so clueless.  Here in the USA Israel gets more criticisms than India for treatment of minorities,  because Israel is like the 51st state while India is just a far off country.     That was my overall point;  Israel does take center stage in US political discussion.   To me Israel is just another country.     With the EU Israel should take center-stage since select EU countries are responsible for the entire 'mess'  (mainly Germany and Britain).    

The only reason the USA treats Israel like the 51st state is because of myth loving Christians that believe in some so called second coming.     

 

Thank you for thinking I am very knowledgeable, even if you think I'm clueless on this topic.  I don't think I'm clueless. I suppose whenever a country has a large, long-standing, contingent of immigrants of a particular persuasion, a special relationship develops. (At a certain point in New York's history, you'd think Ireland was another U.S. state.) But a country has allies, and there tends to be special connections with those allies. I think many American Jews would prefer a more liberal administration in Israel. (When Boris Johnson becomes the UK's PM, Trump will have several of his friends, like Netanyahu and Putin, running key countries.)

For me, history did not begin in 1948. A larger approach is that Jews never try to convent people to our religion, and certainly not forcibly. Two of those four congresswomen who have criticized Israel's behavior probably owe their own religion to the brutal conversions to Islam of earlier centuries, including the killing of priests of the old religion (often pagan) and the forced conversions of masses of people. The violent Arab invasions of the Levant led to the forced conversions of people in Palestine. American black Muslims don't want to hear the fact that, long before a single slave was brought to the U.S., the Arab Moslems controlled and managed the slave trade in Africa.

Just as I, an American Jew, would like to see Israel managed somewhat differently by the Israelis, I would also like Ilhan Omar to see what she can do to make the country she came from -- Somalia -- more tolerant of other religions. Somalia is brutally Islamic, with no tolerance for other religions. Now there's a country with an implacable state religion.

I think one of the great crimes of history was the Islamic invasion of Persia and the forced conversions of Zoroastrians to Islam.  Priests of that noble religion were tortured; religious books were burned; many Zoroastrians fled to India, where to this day they are known as Parsis (Freddy Mercury was one). 

History is a continuum. You can't ignore the brutality of the past, especially if you are quick to criticize the much more moderate brutality of the present.

 

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48 minutes ago, Bogie56 said:

You may not be a racist but by supporting Trump you enable him to spread his racist message across the land, divide people and give rise to his fellow racists which is a great danger to society.  Let's face it, the white supremacists in America love Trump for a reason.  Now they can all come out of the woodwork.  Any Trump supporter should be ashamed of themselves for this reason alone.

And calling the squad pro-terrorist is ridiculous trolling.

All People who support trump are not  necessarily active racists.

But you could absolutely say about them that the issue of racism or the result of racism or whatever racism is is not important to them. In other words they can support a racist because they don't see racism as something crucial enough to be concerned about.

If it doesn't affect them personally, or really any close personal friend or family member-- then why should they care?

So oh, you can say they lack empathy or they have no moral values which allows them to be concerned about other people who are not in their own closed Circle or their own ethnic group or race.

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12 hours ago, mr6666 said:

Trump Is Most Racist President Since Andrew Johnson, Says Historian Jon Meacham

"....... Meacham, who has written several presidential biographies, was reacting on MSNBC's Hardball with Chris Matthews to Trump's racist tweet about progressive Democratic congresswomen..........

 

"It's long been said, President Reagan said it quite well, that America is the one place on earth that is not about a birthright. It's about the ascent to an idea," Meacham said.

"An idea that was written in one of the most important sentences ever in the English language, that all men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights.

"We didn't apply that fully then, we haven't applied it fully now. But that journey towards a more perfect union is the story of the country.

"And what the president's done here is, yet again, because he did it after Charlottesville and I think he did it, frankly, when he was pushing the birther lie about President Obama,

is he has joined Andrew Johnson as the most racist president in American history."

Meacham cited Johnson's state message that "African-Americans were incapable of self-government and relapsed into barbarism if they weren't closely supervised." ...........

 

Meacham pushed back against the criticism of Trump that his remarks are un-American, saying the country must take responsibility for the president it elected.

"When people say, 'This isn't who we are,' that's not true. It is who we are.

It's who we are on our worst day and it's pointless to try to expiate ourselves from what Trump has been saying," Meacham said.

"There is a complicity, there is a national complicity in this, and the way America moves forward is 51 percent of the time we're with Lincoln instead of Andrew Johnson."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/trump-racist-president-andrew-johnson-historian-tweet-1449449?utm_medium=Social&amp;utm_campaign=NewsweekTwitter&amp;utm_source=Twitter

<_<

Woody Wilson wants a recount.

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3 hours ago, hamradio said:

Like an atheist explain how this most tiny of nations originally surrounded by enemies- GREATLY outnumbered manage to win lop sided wars and still exist today.  By all logic this country shouldn't be around.  No American soldier has ever fought any of their wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Israel

israel_and_the_arab-israeli_conflict_-_b

How did the Nazis manage to conquer a large chunk of western Europe in a few months?

Obviously, God was on their side. :)

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23 minutes ago, Princess of Tap said:

All People who support trump are not  necessarily active racists.

But you could absolutely say about them that the issue of racism or the result of racism or whatever racism is is not important to them. In other words they can support a racist because they don't see racism as something crucial enough to be concerned about.

If it doesn't affect them personally, or really any close personal friend or family member-- then why should they care?

So oh, you can say they lack empathy or they have no moral values which allows them to be concerned about other people who are not in their own closed Circle or their own ethnic group or race.

As you say, maybe concerns about racism are not high on some people's agenda but they are still enabling it by transferring power to those that propagate it.

And just as an aside I have read many many anti-muslim posts over the past few years from the chap that claims he is not a racist.  He lumps all muslims together and that in my book is racist.  Do Muslims claim ALL white people are white supremacists?  One chap around here suggested dropping a nuclear bomb on the Arab countries and he was serious.

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8 hours ago, Vautrin said:

How did the Nazis manage to conquer a large chunk of western Europe in a few months?

Obviously, God was on their side. :)

I can't believe you just made such an outrageous comparison. Israel is a speck on the map compared to Germany.

Have you studied history, Hitler managed to over run Europe due to several reasons.  First the inept League of Nations that had neither the resolve or backbone to counter Hitler early on when he invaded the remainder of Czechoslovakia.

Second he had a superior army, tanks, other equipment.  The Luftwaffe was top notch, while other countries had outdated tanks and planes not to mention tactics that has hardly changed since WWI and before.  The new German tactic of blitzkrieg caught everyone off guard and gave no time to counter attack with the forementioned outdated equipment. Germany was the first to use air superiority to rule the sky and deny other nations the same.

Static fortifications i.e. the Maginot Line was old school, the Nazi's simply went around them.

quote-fixed-fortifications-are-a-monumen

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16 hours ago, hamradio said:

I can't believe you just made such an outrageous comparison. Israel is a speck on the map compared to Germany.

Have you studied history, Hitler managed to over run Europe due to several reasons.  First the inept League of Nations that had neither the resolve or backbone to counter Hitler early on when he invaded the remainder of Czechoslovakia.

Second he had a superior army, tanks, other equipment.  The Luftwaffe was top notch, while other countries had outdated tanks and planes not to mention tactics that has hardly changed since WWI and before.  The new German tactic of blitzkrieg caught everyone off guard and gave no time to counter attack with the forementioned outdated equipment. Germany was the first to use air superiority to rule the sky and deny other nations the same.

Static fortifications i.e. the Maginot Line was old school, the Nazi's simply went around them.

 

If you don't like the German example, how did 19 guys with box cutters manage to

bring down the WTC twin towers? Allah smiled kindly on their efforts. There is no more

reason to ascribe Israel's military success to supernatural efforts than there is to ascribe

the success of 9/11 to them. To be cold-blooded about it, the Palestinians failed to kill

enough Jews early enough to save themselves from their eventual fate. Now, due to

that error, they live as semi-slaves.

 

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Israel has been militarily successful because it has the wealthiest nation with the largest military-industrial complex in the world behind it.  The United States has provided massive financial (public and private) support for Israel, but more importantly has provided low or no cost massive military equipment.  Since day one.  We were first nation to recognize Israel and no telling how much secret military aid was provided starting then.

True, we did not send American forces as we did in Korea, Vietnam, the Middle East and so forth because Israel did provide sufficient, motivated personnel.

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Naperville Gas Station Clerk Fired After Altercation With Hispanic Customers

Carolina Buitron said she her family were victims of discrimination when they stopped at the gas station for chips

 

......Carolina Buitron said she and her family, some of whom were visiting from Mexico, were victims of discrimination when they stopped at the west suburban gas station for chips. The family said they were speaking Spanish when the cashier asked them to leave because they were “illegals.”

"He started asking about my cousins, if they were illegal, family or friends, are they adopted," Buitron said,

......it shows him asking the group if they are citizens and telling them “ICE will come.”

A second video shows the cashier and another customer telling the group “you have no rights.”

"They got into an argument and things were said that shouldn’t be said,".......

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/naperville-gas-station-clerk-fired-hispanic-customers-video-chicago-illinois-512891321.html?_osource=SocialFlowTwt_CHBrand

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Now some trump supporters are self-appointed vigilante bigots.

trump sets a bad example with his racist prejudice, but he also sets a bad example of no respect for the law and the independent judiciary.

The result is a police investigation, the suspension of the clerk and a comment from the mayor of Naperville:

"Hate has no home in Naperville".

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1 hour ago, Princess of Tap said:

Now some trump supporters are self-appointed vigilante bigots.

trump sets a bad example with his racist prejudice, but he also sets a bad example of no respect for the law and the independent judiciary.

The result is a police investigation, the suspension of the clerk and a comment from the mayor of Naperville:

"Hate has no home in Naperville".

Like we have discussed I consider these events to be positive ones for race relations.    In the vast majority of cases the clowns who perform such acts end up losing out (e.g. getting fired) and look like fools and a-holes.   That is a positive message to send to other potential clowns. 

PS:  In my daily hike today when I saw anyone of 'color' I said "hello,  I'm glad your here".    Oh,  and my wife is still angry.    A few years back she got into it with one of her closes friends (a party-gal who married a multi-millionaire and became a fan of Rush),   when discussing the minimum-wage she told my wife 'you can go back to where you came'.    (meaning Italy).

 

 

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17 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Like we have discussed I consider these events to be positive ones for race relations.    In the vast majority of cases the clowns who perform such acts end up losing out (e.g. getting fired) and look like fools and a-holes.   That is a positive message to send to other potential clowns. 

PS:  In my daily hike today when I saw anyone of 'color' I said "hello,  I'm glad your here".    Oh,  and my wife is still angry.    A few years back she got into it with one of her closes friends (a party-gal who married a multi-millionaire and became a fan of Rush),   when discussing the minimum-wage she told my wife 'you can go back to where you came'.    (meaning Italy).

 

 

 James, and did these people look at you and say the same thing?

I've had quite a few  Americans in my lifetime of East Asian ethnicity or descent tell me that they're often asked where they come from.

My best friend in graduate school was a 3rd Generation Japanese-American. Her family had been interned during the war. She told me that this was a common experience for her-- people treating her and approaching her as if she wasn't a real American citizen.

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