Palmerin Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 The story of CHARIOTS OF FIRE in Puerto Rico was really ridiculous. Movie managers, aware of how boring it was, waited until after the Oscars to release it, praying that its Oscars would deceive the public into thinking that it was a good movie. The public was NOT deceived; everybody in PR hated it. If Hudson wanted so badly to do a movie about the Paris Olympics of 1924, why didn't he film the story of gold medalist swimmer JOHNNY WEISSMULLER, who had a really interesting life and a really memorable career, instead of wasting all that money and resources on two nonentities whom nobody remembers??? This misFIRE has not improved with time; quite the contrary. Which leads me to my question: how many movies do you recall that were universally panned when they came out, but which now have vastly improved reputations? I know, for example, that Roger Corman was once dismissed as a cheap maker of trashy schlock, but now he is very well respected, and several of his cheapies are now admired as true classics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedya Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I'm sorry the people of Puerto Rico have such lousy taste. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dargo Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 Actually Palmerin, while I'll admit I think CHARIOTS OF FIRE was always a BIT overrated, as yes, I always found it's pacing a mite slow, this film was anything but "universally panned"...especially by the film critics of its time and even today. (...it actually might be one of the first cases in which the now seeming gulf between "what the film critics like" and "what the general public likes" made it presences felt) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess of Tap Posted January 10, 2017 Share Posted January 10, 2017 I was living in London when Chariots of Fire was first released. People over there were simply going crazy over it. They sold tickets in advance. You couldn't get in to see it and the lines were so long. That's all anybody ever talked about. I don't really have an opinion on the film- - but could it be that people with different historical and cultural perspectives view films differently? However, a great film should have universal appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gorman Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I think the 1982 Richard Brooks movie "WRONG IS RIGHT" starring Sean Connery has improved over time. Connery plays an international reporter attempting to demonstrate he's a serious journalist and not just a shallow, globe-trotting pretty boy. There are a lot of plot threads going on concurrently. Better to just watch the movie instead of me trying to describe it here. Other cast members are Katharine Ross, Hardy Kruger, Robert Conrad, George Grizzard, Rosalind Cash (she plays the Veep), G. D. Spradlin, Leslie Nielsen, Robert Webber, Dean Stockwell, John Saxon, Ron Moody. Runs 117 minutes. Rated [R] SCAVENGER HUNT (1979), which is apparently coming to DVD and Blu-Ray for the first time very soon, makes me laugh more now that it did when I first saw it in the 1980s. Richard Benjamin trying to talk his way out of a thrashing by a biker gang (lead by Meat Loaf) cracks me up. He was trying to steal a foxtail from the back of a motorcycle and got caught. Rated [PG] I'll have to think of some more . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedya Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Connery plays an international reporter attempting to demonstrate he's a serious journalist and not just a shallow, globe-trotting pretty boy. Does he know the difference between an ism and a kangaroo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Gorman Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 I've got a kangarism living in the woods behind my cabin if that's any help. I feed it daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 The story of CHARIOTS OF FIRE in Puerto Rico was really ridiculous. Movie managers, aware of how boring it was, waited until after the Oscars to release it, praying that its Oscars would deceive the public into thinking that it was a good movie. The public was NOT deceived; everybody in PR hated it. If Hudson wanted so badly to do a movie about the Paris Olympics of 1924, why didn't he film the story of gold medalist swimmer JOHNNY WEISSMULLER, who had a really interesting life and a really memorable career, instead of wasting all that money and resources on two nonentities whom nobody remembers??? This misFIRE has not improved with time; quite the contrary. Which leads me to my question: how many movies do you recall that were universally panned when they came out, but which now have vastly improved reputations? I know, for example, that Roger Corman was once dismissed as a cheap maker of trashy schlock, but now he is very well respected, and several of his cheapies are now admired as true classics. The opposite happened here: British films, Masterpiece Theater and Merchant-Ivory hadn't really taken hold yet in 1981, so Chariots was taken as highbrow elegance at the time. Also, that early in the 80's, we weren't yet buried in red-state athletes saying "Thank you, Jesus, for my Super Bowl win!", so Eric Lidell racing for his faith seemed like a rather noble thing to be made the theme of the movie. (Think the film may have been produced as an "inspirational" film, before inspirational-studios sports movies also became dime-a-dozen.) It just LOOKED good at the time. Should Raiders of the Lost Ark have won?...Not really, but nice to be nominated. Should On Golden Pond or Reds have won?...Lord, no. And MST3K-indoctrinated fans still joke about Roger Corman without ever having seen "Masque of the Red Death", "The Intruder", or "X: the Man with the X-Ray Eyes". As for "Movies that have improved with time"?--You could do a whole THREAD about former 80's, quote-fingers, "flops" that are now beloved by generations....Starting with "Clue: the Movie": Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamradio Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 "Citizen Kane" (1941) flopped on it's release and is now considered one of the best films ever made. Can't improve any better than that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 Palmerin, your mistake was to inject such a lengthy and needless story concerning one movie that suffered in a different social culture. And WHY at the time it might have. And the result was that this almost became a CHARIOTS OF FIRE thread rather than what you may have intended. But...back to basics... IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE , when IT came out and like KANE didn't do so well either. But NOW, it's America's BELOVED CHRISTMAS MOVIE. AND a highly regarded "classic". Sepiatone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmerin Posted January 11, 2017 Author Share Posted January 11, 2017 The opposite happened here: British films, Masterpiece Theater and Merchant-Ivory hadn't really taken hold yet in 1981, so Chariots was taken as highbrow elegance at the time. Also, that early in the 80's, we weren't yet buried in red-state athletes saying "Thank you, Jesus, for my Super Bowl win!", so Eric Lidell racing for his faith seemed like a rather noble thing to be made the theme of the movie. (Think the film may have been produced as an "inspirational" film, before inspirational-studios sports movies also became dime-a-dozen.) It just LOOKED good at the time. Should Raiders of the Lost Ark have won?...Not really, but nice to be nominated. Should On Golden Pond or Reds have won?...Lord, no. 1982 was a very N~ON~O=UNDISTINGUISHED year; I would have voted for ATLANTIC CITY because I love Burt Lancaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingrat Posted January 11, 2017 Share Posted January 11, 2017 It just LOOKED good at the time. Should Raiders of the Lost Ark have won?...Not really, but nice to be nominated. Should On Golden Pond or Reds have won?...Lord, no. My sentiments exactly. The late 60s and the 70s were a great era for Masterpiece Theater, however, with The Forsyte Saga, Upstairs Downstairs, and I, Claudius, among others. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skimpole Posted January 12, 2017 Share Posted January 12, 2017 Here are the English Language movies from 1930 to 1991 that have clearly improved over time (twenty five years being I think good enough for perspective) The Man I killed Hallelujah I'm a Bum Sylvia Scarlett Make way for Tomorrow Helzapoppin' I Walked with a Zombie The Three Caballeros Detour Yolanda and the Thief From the Day Forward Monsieur Verdoux Good Sam The Small Back Room The Set-up Colorado Territory Thieves Highway Alice in Wonderland (Disney animated version) The Prowler The Steel Helmet Limelight My Son John The Lusty Men The Marrying Kind The 500- Fingers of Doctor T Pickup on South Street Johnny Guitar The Night of the Hunter The Man from Laramie It's Always Fair Weather Invitation the Dance The Sweet Smell of Success Vertigo Touch of Evil Murder by Contract A Time to Love and a Time to Die Wild River The Young One The Manchurian Candidate Heaven and Earth Magic The Trial (Orson Welles) Help! Chimes at Midnight Ice Tora! Tora! Tora! Deep End The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes The Ballad of Cable Hogue Zabriskie Point A New Leaf Avanti Winter Soldier Pink Flamingoes The King of Marvin Gardens Badlands O Lucky Man! The Friends of Eddie Coyle Scarecrow Monty Python and the Holy Grail The Rocky Horror Picture Show Providence Killer of Sheep The Shout Quadrophenia The Human Factor The Shining Time Bandits Cutters Way Four Friends Pink Floyd: the Wall Blade Runner The Man with Two Brains The King of Comedy My Brother's Wedding Twice upon a Time Videodrome Once upon a time in America The Cotton Club Love Streams Brazil Clue Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer Absolute Beginners She's Gotta Have it Down by Law Inner Space Housekeeping Distant Voices, Still Lives Enemies: a Love story Queen of Hearts Mountains of the Moon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmerin Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 And MST3K-indoctrinated fans still joke about Roger Corman without ever having seen "Masque of the Red Death", "The Intruder", or "X: the Man with the X-Ray Eyes". How do you like THE ST VALENTINE'S DAY MASSACRE? It came out in 1967, the same year as Penn's BONNIE & CLYDE, and, like the latter, was heavily criticized for its violence. I myself found it very absorbing, even though it has a feature that still turns off many people: except for the pitiful mechanic played by Bruce Dern, practically all the characters are damned miscreants who richly deserve to get whacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 How do you like THE ST VALENTINE'S DAY MASSACRE? It came out in 1967, the same year as Penn's BONNIE & CLYDE, and, like the latter, was heavily criticized for its violence. I myself found it very absorbing, even though it has a feature that still turns off many people: except for the pitiful mechanic played by Bruce Dern, practically all the characters are damned miscreants who richly deserve to get whacked. I saw that movie on the same bill with "Bonnie and Clyde". Likd it then and still do. The mechanic getting "whacked" didn't bother me though. I knew well that many undeserving people "got it" back in those times among those characters. Sepiatone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midwestan Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 My sentiments exactly. The late 60s and the 70s were a great era for Masterpiece Theater, however, with The Forsyte Saga, Upstairs Downstairs, and I, Claudius, among others. I, Claudius was one of my favorite shows on Masterpiece Theater. I also liked Traffik, To Serve Them All My Days, The Jewel in the Crown, and currently, Sherlock. I do wonder why PBS dropped "Theater" from the title though. Now, it's simply known as "Masterpiece". Of course, it may not have been a PBS decision to do that, but I'm still curious nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palmerin Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Here are the English Language movies from 1930 to 1991 that have clearly improved over time (twenty five years being I think good enough for perspective) The Man I killed Hallelujah I'm a Bum Sylvia Scarlett Make way for Tomorrow Helzapoppin' I Walked with a Zombie The Three Caballeros Detour Yolanda and the Thief From the Day Forward Monsieur Verdoux Good Sam The Small Back Room The Set-up Colorado Territory Thieves Highway Alice in Wonderland (Disney animated version) The Prowler The Steel Helmet Limelight My Son John The Lusty Men The Marrying Kind The 500- Fingers of Doctor T Pickup on South Street Johnny Guitar The Night of the Hunter The Man from Laramie It's Always Fair Weather Invitation the Dance The Sweet Smell of Success Vertigo Touch of Evil Murder by Contract A Time to Love and a Time to Die Wild River The Young One The Manchurian Candidate Heaven and Earth Magic The Trial (Orson Welles) Help! Chimes at Midnight Ice Tora! Tora! Tora! Deep End The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes The Ballad of Cable Hogue Zabriskie Point A New Leaf Avanti Winter Soldier Pink Flamingoes The King of Marvin Gardens Badlands O Lucky Man! The Friends of Eddie Coyle Scarecrow Monty Python and the Holy Grail The Rocky Horror Picture Show Providence Killer of Sheep The Shout Quadrophenia The Human Factor The Shining Time Bandits Cutters Way Four Friends Pink Floyd: the Wall Blade Runner The Man with Two Brains The King of Comedy My Brother's Wedding Twice upon a Time Videodrome Once upon a time in America The Cotton Club Love Streams Brazil Clue Henry, Portrait of a Serial Killer Absolute Beginners She's Gotta Have it Down by Law Inner Space Housekeeping Distant Voices, Still Lives Enemies: a Love story Queen of Hearts Mountains of the Moon Very interesting assortment; I'll definitely explore it. Gracias. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 I recently, in another thread, mentioned the film THE SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, another movie that sunk at the box office when it came out, but over time became considered one of the finer films from it's era. Personally, I think it's one of both Lancaster's AND Curtis' finer performances. Sepiatone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslow_Leach Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 And MST3K-indoctrinated fans still joke about Roger Corman without ever having seen "Masque of the Red Death", "The Intruder", or "X: the Man with the X-Ray Eyes". Don't paint with such a broad brush, Eric. You can lose nuance, especially on such a relatively small canvas. Besides, Roger Corman made many finer films than "X". You mention "Masque", but what about "A Bucket of Blood", "Little Shop of Horrors", "Haunted Palace" and "Pit and the Pendulum"? At the same time, "Teenage Caveman", "It Conquered the World" (Spoiler: "It" did not), "Gunslinger", "Swamp Diamonds"- These are not great films. The appeal of making light of some samples from Roger Corman's body of work wasn't to denigrate the prolific legend, but to roast him. And many, many MST3k fans who are also fans of B-Movies and Psychotronic Films accord Roger his due respect. I mean, c'mon, have you SEEN a Roger Corman interview? The man pokes fun at himself. He's in a wholly unique position: He's fully aware of the impact he's had on modern cinema while embracing the fact that he turned out reels of profitable schlock. Coleman Francis? Now that was a different matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Don't paint with such a broad brush, Eric. You can lose nuance, especially on such a relatively small canvas. Besides, Roger Corman made many finer films than "X". You mention "Masque", but what about "A Bucket of Blood", "Little Shop of Horrors", "Haunted Palace" and "Pit and the Pendulum"? I mean, c'mon, have you SEEN a Roger Corman interview? The man pokes fun at himself. He's in a wholly unique position: He's fully aware of the impact he's had on modern cinema while embracing the fact that he turned out reels of profitable schlock. Seen, no, but I've HEARD his DVD commentaries to X and Masque-- Unlike some of his shlock-fan bashing, he's not a low-rent huckster trying to make six movies in three days, or a delusional loser believing the ending of Teenage Caveman was going to win the Nobel Prize. Corman's a smart director, and aware of the director's job at Amer. Int'l in the 50's, namely, to deliver a movie on time, under budget, and make it resemble what the poster and title promised. Apart from that, the director was left alone to pursue whatever higher statement he wanted the movie to make and cut whatever production corners were necessary, and Corman had ambitions to enjoy his relative independence with a bit of artistic indulgence. (As he describes the ending of X, "There you have it, folks, Greek tragedy at the drive-in.") As for Bucket and Shop (and MST3K's kidding of "The Undead"), I put those down to Charles B. Griffith's talent for consciously tongue-in-cheek scripts, which were more on display when Corman founded New World and produced "Death Race 2000". (The current Roger Corman has slipped a bit in to lazy self-aware Asylum-wannabe camp ever since producing cable and direct-video movies for Epix and SyFy--In response to those dopey humorless Lionsgate "Death Race" remakes in the 00's, Corman's current trailers for the consciously tongue-in-cheek "Death Race 2050" are more in tradition, but you can see he's gone over the edge kissing up to his reputation.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslow_Leach Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 As for Bucket and Shop (and MST3K's kidding of "The Undead"), I put those down to Charles B. Griffith's talent for consciously tongue-in-cheek scripts, He couldn't have done "A Bucket of Blood" without Griffith, but the film is as good as it is because of Roger's attention to detail. He and Griffith energized each other, but Roger drew on his experience as a fringe player on the periphery of the Beat scene, and his eye and ear were sound. He and Griffith incorporated into the film incidents and scenarios the two had witnessed either together or independent of the other. (Only Griffith's name is on the screenplay credit, but Corman had a good bit to do with this one's story.) In my opinion, Roger's direction hit all the right notes with "ABOB". Mood evocation, atmosphere, pacing, humor, shot selection- he was dialed in. He made prettier movies, to be sure, but "A Bucket of Blood" is one of his most effective. Remember- Charles Griffith also wrote "Gunslinger". So not every screenplay he wrote elevated Roger Corman's work. You've got to see some Corman interviews. He's a joy to watch. Ben Mankiewicz did a fine job with his segments for TCM. But there are Corman interviews and docs out there. (The best are when he doesn't take himself too seriously. I love it when he discusses his relationship with American International Pictures, especially when he allows himself to be candid about his "bosses".) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslow_Leach Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 "Peeping Tom" is higher regarded now than at the time of its release, and I am of the opinion that its psychology holds up much better than "Psycho"'s. John Carpenter's version of "The Thing" is often cited as one of the great sci-fi/horror films of the modern era. Neither audiences nor critics felt that way back in 1982. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristineHoard Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 "Peeping Tom" is higher regarded now than at the time of its release, and I am of the opinion that its psychology holds up much better than "Psycho"'s. John Carpenter's version of "The Thing" is often cited as one of the great sci-fi/horror films of the modern era. Neither audiences nor critics felt that way back in 1982. Audiences and critics may not have liked THE THING but I sure did; saw it twice in the theater and I've got the DVD. It's great; I love the original, too, very much. Carpenter's version came out around the same time as ET and audiences wanted their aliens cute and cuddly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Audiences and critics may not have liked THE THING but I sure did; saw it twice in the theater and I've got the DVD. It's great; I love the original, too, very much. Carpenter's version came out around the same time as ET and audiences wanted their aliens cute and cuddly. No, we just wanted our Carpenter movies coherent and non-icky--We hated "The Fog" because we expected it to be another slasher film after "Halloween", hated "Halloween III" because it didn't have the killer in it, and, to be fair, hated "Big Trouble in Little China", because, seriously...the script's goofy enough as it is, Kurt, what's with the voice? But then, it was 1982, and we also hated Blade Runner for being muddled and impenetrable, we didn't get the jokes in "Dead Men Don't Wear Plaid" except for the coffee and tongue-shaving jokes, we hated "Tron" because we thought it didn't have enough Pac-Man in it, and, IIRC, everyone back then insisted Gandhi or Paul Newman should win the Oscar because Best Picture shouldn't have cute and cuddly aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepiatone Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Personally, I felt that Carpenter's BIGGEST embarrassment was THEY LIVE! Actually, MY biggest embarrassment too, since I've just now admitted I WATCHED it. Sepiatone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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