Bette and Joan

[Hibi]

LOL. I havent read any Bette bios lately. WIsh I could remember where I read that. Maybe it was discussed on TCM?

[im4cinema2]

I don't know about you, but I find myself laughing a lot watching this.  Did you catch the one when Mamacita mentions Germany in 1937, "When Hitler was in power?"  or when Joan tells the Morris Agency "to go f.....,themselves?" If you haven't seen it yet please watch. You'll have a good laugh.  I'm sure they'll repeat it. I'm sure BD and Christina gave their blessings.

[RoyCronin]

I see on Amazon that publishers are re-releasing Joan's two books, the 1962 autobiography  "A Portrait of Joan" and the 1971 "My Way of Life"....the latter is a hoot to read, if you want to know how to emulate the early-70s fabulous NYC Joan.

 

 Also, Shaun Considine's "Divine Feud" is out in a new edition, updated with new photos, presumably from the show?

[Hibi]

I see on Amazon that publishers are re-releasing Joan's two books, the 1962 autobiography  "A Portrait of Joan" and the 1971 "My Way of Life"....the latter is a hoot to read, if you want to know how to emulate the early-70s fabulous NYC Joan.

 

 Also, Shaun Considine's "Divine Feud" is out in a new edition, updated with new photos, presumably from the show?

 

 

The Divine Feud is a riot. A lot of second hand gossip that cant be proven, but you hope is true!   A must read for any Bette/Joan fans......

[Dargo]

VERA CRUZ?

 

The most I remember about that one is how amused me and my step brother were over how WHITE Burt lancaster's TEETH were! 

 

 

Sepiatone

 

 

"Yes, thanks for noticing! The Pepsodent people

once asked me to be their TV spokesman, but I

turned them down! Ha, ha, ha, ha!" 

[Princess of Tap]

 

"Yes, thanks for noticing! The Pepsodent people

once asked me to be their TV spokesman, but I

turned them down! Ha, ha, ha, ha!"

 

This photo will definitely bring back the nightmare that I had at 10, when I first saw Vera Cruz!

[Dargo]

This photo will definitely bring back the nightmare that I had at 10, when I first saw Vera Cruz!

 

While I understand your reason for this due to your earlier posting Princess, I ALSO understand that MOST women would have very DIFFERENT kind of dreams whenever they see a picture of and then think of Burt here!

 

[Swithin]

Critic's Notebook: The Faux Feminism of 'Feud'

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/critics-notebook-faux-feminism-feud-988848

[GGGGerald]

Critic's Notebook: The Faux Feminism of 'Feud'

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/critics-notebook-faux-feminism-feud-988848

 

This author doesn't quite get what's going on in this series. She talks about how strong these actresses were. And how they were artists plying their craft and wanting to do better and better work. That's not what this show is about. 

 

This is about how the Hollywood system "wouldn't allow" such artists to do their best work on a regular basis. To show them as strong and viable stars would be a bit anachronistic. In the 30's and 40's yes. But, by 1962, they were just scraping by. I would be nice to remember them in their prime years. Everyone, if the stick around long enough will reach that point where they aren't the stars they once were.

 

And most aren't ready for it at all !  

 

I see on Amazon that publishers are re-releasing Joan's two books, the 1962 autobiography  "A Portrait of Joan" and the 1971 "My Way of Life"....the latter is a hoot to read, if you want to know how to emulate the early-70s fabulous NYC Joan.

 

 Also, Shaun Considine's "Divine Feud" is out in a new edition, updated with new photos, presumably from the show?

 

This is one of the reasons I was excited that this show was coming on. I don't expect this series to answer every question nor give us every minute fact of their lives. This show is about entertainment, and to me its entertaining. But, more importantly it can spur people to be interested enough to be autobiographies and watch documentaries and learn more for themselves. That's where a person can become not just a fan of those two but, of classic films in general. 

 

How many times have we seen a documentary or PBS show and at the end it says "If you want to learn more about "xxx", and they give you a list of books and other reference  ? I see this the same way. Just one source of information. Not "THE"  source.  

[RipMurdock]

All I can think of watching the Bette part chewing up the scenery like the real Bette, is actor Patrick O'Neal. I think he cooled Bette's jets. Too bad he is not being portrayed in the ensemble.

[Hibi]

I seem to remember reading he tried to strangle Bette during the production........(Iguana)

[LornaHansonForbes]

I seem to remember reading he tried to strangle Bette during the production........(Iguana)

Yeah, they went into it in pretty graphic detail in the TCM produced documentary STARDUST THE BETTE DAVIS STORY.

 

Honestly, it painted such an unflattering overall picture of Bette that it actually kind of turned me off to her for a couple of years.

[Hibi]

Yes, not one of her better moments.

[rosebette]

This author doesn't quite get what's going on in this series. She talks about how strong these actresses were. And how they were artists plying their craft and wanting to do better and better work. That's not what this show is about. 

 

This is about how the Hollywood system "wouldn't allow" such artists to do their best work on a regular basis. To show them as strong and viable stars would be a bit anachronistic. In the 30's and 40's yes. But, by 1962, they were just scraping by. I would be nice to remember them in their prime years. Everyone, if the stick around long enough will reach that point where they aren't the stars they once were.

 

And most aren't ready for it at all !  

 

 

This is one of the reasons I was excited that this show was coming on. I don't expect this series to answer every question nor give us every minute fact of their lives. This show is about entertainment, and to me its entertaining. But, more importantly it can spur people to be interested enough to be autobiographies and watch documentaries and learn more for themselves. That's where a person can become not just a fan of those two but, of classic films in general. 

 

How many times have we seen a documentary or PBS show and at the end it says "If you want to learn more about "xxx", and they give you a list of books and other reference  ? I see this the same way. Just one source of information. Not "THE"  source.  

When I think of the careers of the actresses in Bette and Joan, Susan Sarandon and Jessica Lange, who are still getting good roles although they are in their 60s (older than Bette and Joan were at the time of "Whatever Happened?"), Meryl Streep,  and many others, as well as the proliferation of television networks and Internet streaming channels that offer good roles for older women,  I realize that while the industry is still ageist and sexist, women have indeed come a long way.  Meryl Streep wasn't making "B" pictures once she was past 50 -- she was getting major roles in major films.  

[Hibi]

Yes, that's true. Your career isnt over now once you hit your 40s like it was back then......

[Arturo]

When I think of the careers of the actresses in Bette and Joan, Susan Sarandon and Jessica Lange, who are still getting good roles although they are in their 60s (older than Bette and Joan were at the time of "Whatever Happened?"), Meryl Streep, and many others, as well as the proliferation of television networks and Internet streaming channels that offer good roles for older women, I realize that while the industry is still ageist and sexist, women have indeed come a long way. Meryl Streep wasn't making "B" pictures once she was past 50 -- she was getting major roles in major films.

 

There are always exceptions to any rule. One classic era actress that continued to get strong roles well into the prime (and then some) of her life......Katherine Hepburn. A combination of luck, persistence and even financial security can keep one able to hold out for important roles in prestigious productions. The opposite can lead one to accept lesser film roles, cheapening their brand in the process.

 

As for Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, I remember reading that Lange and other mature actresses took roles in American Horror Story, etc. Because they were no longer considered viable in lead roles in theatrical films. While tv roles may no longer have stigma they once had for film stars, and there are so many outlets these days,things haven't changed much for older actresses in that regard.

[Swithin]

There are always exceptions to any rule. One classic era actress that continued to get strong roles well into the prime (and then some) of her life......Katherine Hepburn. A combination of luck, persistence and even financial security can keep one able to hold out for important roles in prestigious productions. The opposite can lead one to accept lesser film roles, cheapening their brand in the process.

 

As for Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, I remember reading that Lange and other mature actresses took roles in American Horror Story, etc. Because they were no longer considered viable in lead roles in theatrical films. While tv roles may no longer have stigma they once had for film stars, and there are so many outlets these days,things haven't changed much for older actresses in that regard.

 

I watch the beginning of Kelly Ripa most mornings. Now that Michael has left, Kelly has a variety of hosts. But never anyone old. You can be male or female, but to co-host with Kelly, you must be relatively young and pretty.

 

British television shows are much better at featuring older characters.

 

For maturity and sophistication, we'll never get a group like this again:

 

[Princess of Tap]

There are always exceptions to any rule. One classic era actress that continued to get strong roles well into the prime (and then some) of her life......Katherine Hepburn. A combination of luck, persistence and even financial security can keep one able to hold out for important roles in prestigious productions. The opposite can lead one to accept lesser film roles, cheapening their brand in the process.

 

As for Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, I remember reading that Lange and other mature actresses took roles in American Horror Story, etc. Because they were no longer considered viable in lead roles in theatrical films. While tv roles may no longer have stigma they once had for film stars, and there are so many outlets these days,things haven't changed much for older actresses in that regard.

Arturo--That's an excellent observation!

 

In my opinion, Katharine Hepburn has to be the exception that proves the rule. She was a very beautiful woman, but she never played Conventional roles ever. She was always playing head-strong women, intellectuals, old maids,professional women-- women who were rebellious and single-minded. And, of course, she was that way in real life. But what one person like Katharine Hepburn gets to do is not really typical of what the average person or even the above-average actress was able to get away within Hollywood at any time during the Golden Era or after.

 

As you mentioned, she was wealthy. And she was able to buy her contract off at RKO when she became box office poison. Then she was extremely well-educated, so that when she did have a hit on Broadway, Philadelphia Story, she knew how to negotiate the business contract to make the perfect come back at MGM.

[LawrenceA]

As for Jessica Lange and Susan Sarandon, I remember reading that Lange and other mature actresses took roles in American Horror Story, etc. Because they were no longer considered viable in lead roles in theatrical films. While tv roles may no longer have stigma they once had for film stars, and there are so many outlets these days,things haven't changed much for older actresses in that regard.

 

Lange was largely done with the big screen when she decided to do American Horror Story in 2011. She hadn't appeared in a theatrical release since 2006's little-seen Bonneville. After she won an Emmy for the HBO movie Grey Gardens in 2009, she thought she'd give TV another chance with AHS, although it was in a supporting role. It proved very successful, garnering her an Emmy and a Golden Globe, and she became the focus of the next few seasons. 

 

Sarandon still had (and has) a big screen career, although mainly in supporting parts, or the occasional lead in an indie film. But Sarandon has aged exceptionally well, without using a lot of severe plastic surgery, too. 

 

Off the top of my head, the only actress of their generation that still has a thriving big screen career is Meryl Streep. It may be better now for older actresses, but not as good as it is for the older actors.

[LornaHansonForbes]

good article here:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2017/03/31/how_hbo_s_big_little_lies_out_feuded_ryan_murphy_s_feud_bette_and_joan.html

 

this quote nails it for me:

 

"FEUD finds Bette (Susan Sarandon) and Joan (Jessica Lange) getting together for a drink after a day of shooting; they trade monologues about their difficult childhoods and their complicated mothers. It’s a smoothly engineered scene, but less good drama than a well-meaning history lesson—explicit and talky, with dialogue too stiff for even Sarandon and Lange to fully cut through. Like the rest of the show, it doesn’t explore their dynamic so much as explain it."

[GGGGerald]

 

 

 

For maturity and sophistication, we'll never get a group like this again:

 

 

When Game Show Network aired "What's My Line" years ago, it was always at 11pm or later. "Black and White Overnight" they called it. Then had to stop because they couldn't get sponsors. When Buzzr picked it up lately, they did the same thing.

 

But, Buzzr finally did the smart thing and did market research to find out what their fans wanted to see. Come to find out, the old black and white game shows are what  people were interested it in. And they didn't watch before because they were on too late at night. Now, they are prime time viewing. 

 

It seems that even in 2017, people are still interested in a bit of class in their entertainment.  

[LornaHansonForbes]

(still waiting for the Dorothy Kilgallen movie.)

[im4cinema2]

LornaHansonForbes be patient. I'm writing the script about Dorothy Killgallen.

[im4cinema2]

This may very well have been one of the last pictures Robert Osborne may have seen before his death.  People in the industry get to see works before the general public.  I wonder what he thought if he had.

[GGGGerald]

(still waiting for the Dorothy Kilgallen movie.)

 

I know you're not a fan of this particular series. But, if it spurs more interest in old Hollywood scandals and mysteries, that would increase the odds of such a movie being made. And maybe you'll like that one.

 

I would be very interested in how such a movie would handle her demise.