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28 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Good to know they may be back.

Yeah, keep your eye on the schedule. Stranger is Fox, so would think they would've rented it for more than one showing....

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TO EDDIE MULLER, if you check in & just read all these, WHY NO MAGNICENTLY DIRECTED, B & W CINEMATOGRAPHY-(won that *OSCAR), WRITING., ACTING,etc & It's ZITHER MUSIUC BY ANTON KARRIS, IS NEVER AMONG YOUR POICKJS OF THE UKLTIMATE FILM NOIR EFFORT  "THE THIRD MAN" THOUGH?

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15 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

I just re-watched Where The Sidewalk Ends, with Dana Andrews, Gene Tierney, Gary Merill, Karl Malden, and Craig Stevens. And I was impressed again with Gary Merill's performance as the hood Tommy Scalise. So I got to checking IMDb. He did make quite a few more noirs right after Where The Sidewalk Ends but we never see them, that I can remember on TCM.

Another Man's Poison (1951) with Bette Davis, and Emlyn Williams

Phone Call from a Stranger (1952) with  Bette Davis, Shelley Winters, Michael Rennie, Keenan Wynn, Warren Stevens, and Craig Stevens

Night Without Sleep (1952) with Linda Darnell and Hugh Beaumont.

The Human Jungle (1954) with Jan Sterling, Regis Toomey, Chuck Connors, and Emile Meyer

Others that I have seen are  A Blueprint for Murder (1953), Witness to Murder (1954) and the Transitional Noirs The Savage Eye (1960), and The Incident (1967). 

 

TO CIGAR JOE,  whats your own personal opinion of "THE THIRD MAN" though?

 

Or, "VERTIGO" "REAR WINDOW" ":BLUE VELVET" "THE MALTESE FALCON" (l94l) & OF COURSE "CHINATOWN?

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5 hours ago, spence said:

TO CIGAR JOE,  whats your own personal opinion of "THE THIRD MAN" though?

OK had to go back to the places where I usually put down my thoughts to get your answers.

The Third Man - It's not overrated at all, think about it, English, German, and Russian spoken no subs, a great International Noir if there ever was one. One of my faves 10/10.

Here is the link to the full review of Blue Velvet

As far as Chinatown, I haven't seen it it either for quite a while, my impressions of it comparatively to Classic Films Noir is that it was flooded with light with way, way too many day shots. First and foremost it's a Private Eye Film that is more of a Film Soleil those sun baked, filled with light, desert/tropical Noir/Neo Noirs. 

Fits in with Ace In The Hole, Bad Day At Black Rock, Inferno, Desert Fury, The Scarf, The Hitch-Hiker, Jeopardy, RageDelusion, Kill Me AgainNight MovesTo Live and Die in L.A., The Hot SpotFargo, Mulholland Falls, Siesta, Private PropertyNo Country for Old Men, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, The Wrong Man (1993) even Detour if you think about it.

So I'd say it was a PI film first and foremost, its only nod to the dark side is with the revelation at the very end. On the flip side Farewell My Lovely (1975) is a far more Noir Private Eye film.

I haven't critically written about or looked at either Vertigo or Rear Window for a while but both are hovering in my memory around 8-9/10.

The Maltese Falcon (1931) First off this is the first go round for Hammett's novel Director was Roy Del Ruth, and  Maude Fulton along with Brown Holmes, and Lucien Hubbard wrote the screen adaptation. The film stars Ricardo Cortez as Sam Spade, with Bebe Daniels as Miss Wonderly, Dudley Digges as Caspar Gutman, Otto Matieson as Dr. Jole Cairo, and Dwight Frye as Wilmer Cook. 

By now Bogart, Lorre, Greenstreet, and Elisha Cook Jr. own the parts of Spade, Cairo, Gutman, and Wilmer. But I'll give a shout out to Cortez  for playing Spade as the "ladies man" he comes across as in the book, he's believably slimy and duplicitous, screwing his partners wife, probably doing Effie the secretary, and doing Miss Wonderly who is played convincingly slutty by Bebe Daniels who has also been doing just about everybody also. Daniels is head over heels better than Mary Astor as Miss Wonderly.  That said the rest '41 cast is better all the way around.

As far as story this version shows a little bit more of the tale than The Hayes Code wouldn't let be shown in the 40s. You get a more sexual Wonderly you see her suggestively naked in a tub, you see her pulling up her skirt and showing her bankroll hidden in her stocking top, later she submits to a strip search in Spades kitchen.

In Bogart's film, Wonderly comes off like a cold fish, she may have loved Spade she may not have. We'll never know. In this version, however, it's made clear, in a prison visit by Spade (that is not in the book), that she actually did care for him. 

This version seems to have more interesting sets but I'll have to watch the '41 film to compare before I can say definitely one way or the other. 7/10

Satan Met a Lady (1936) is a parody of the first version, Bette Davis plays the Wonderly part and Warren William plays Ted Shane filling the Spade part playing it like a con man, the Gutman part is played by a woman and they are all after the "Horn of Roland" in this version. The rest of this cast is forgettable. It does have a nice denouement in a downpour with the ship filling in for the La Paloma burning off shore.  5/10

Here below is what I wrote in 2012 about The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Its way more Hard Boiled than Noir.

The Maltese Falcon its not at all very dark, but it does have some stylistic touches i.e., shadows imposed by an elevator cage on the face of Mary Astor in her final shot for instance, and some nice camera angles, but none of it is very exaggerated as Noir will get later on in the cycle. 

TMFalcon03.jpg

Huston's film is the third time the Dashiell Hammett novel was filmed, the 1931 version actually told a bit more of the story and showed Spade as a real ladies man  as in the novel. This version (Hayes Code shackled) tones down the sexuality of Spade and the soiled dove quality of Brigid that the novel makes pretty obvious, it also eliminates Spade's strip search of Brigid near the end of the film.  

In the 1931 version the opening scene shows a pair of female legs adjusting her dress and walking out of Sam Spade's office followed by Spade (Ricardo Cortez) adjusting the pillows on the couch with the definite implication that hanky panky had been taking place. His relationship with Miss Wonderly seems to be sexual for sure and there's no question about his affair with partner Miles Archer's wife Iva. The 1936 "Satan Met a Lady" Betty Davis-William Warren vehicle changes quite a few elements but the story has basically the same dynamics.

You decide Astor or Daniels

1941 Astor

TMF.jpg

1931 Daniels

In tub

TheMalteseFalcon31bathtub.jpg 

strip search

TMfalcon31BB.jpg

legs

TMFalcon31BB01.jpg

There is no denying the iconic status of Bogart as Spade, Lorre as Cairo, Greenstreet as Gutman, or Elisha Cook Jr. as Wilmer, but I did like Bebe Daniels a whole lot better in the '31 turn than Mary Astor in this film. 

TMfalcon02.jpg

Having just read the original Black Mask Pulp version recently I can say that there really hasn't been a perfect version of The Maltese Falcon yet, though its going to hard trying to top certain aspects of this version.

This Warner DVD has a commentary by Bogart biographer Eric Lax, and a Warner Night at The Movies Short Subject Gallery that I haven't watched yet so I'll reply again after I do so. 8/10
 
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5 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

OK had to go back to the places where I usually put down my thoughts to get your answers.

The Third Man - It's not overrated at all, think about it, English, German, and Russian spoken no subs, a great International Noir if there ever was one. One of my faves 10/10.

Here is the link to the full review of Blue Velvet

As far as Chinatown, I haven't seen it it either for quite a while, my impressions of it comparatively to Classic Films Noir is that it was flooded with light with way, way too many day shots. First and foremost it's a Private Eye Film that is more of a Film Soleil those sun baked, filled with light, desert/tropical Noir/Neo Noirs. 

Fits in with Ace In The Hole, Bad Day At Black Rock, Inferno, Desert Fury, The Scarf, The Hitch-Hiker, Jeopardy, RageDelusion, Kill Me AgainNight MovesTo Live and Die in L.A., The Hot SpotFargo, Mulholland Falls, Siesta, Private PropertyNo Country for Old Men, Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Garcia, The Wrong Man (1993) even Detour if you think about it.

So I'd say it was a PI film first and foremost, its only nod to the dark side is with the revelation at the very end. On the flip side Farewell My Lovely (1975) is a far more Noir Private Eye film.

I haven't critically written about or looked at either Vertigo or Rear Window for a while but both are hovering in my memory around 8-9/10.

The Maltese Falcon (1931) First off this is the first go round for Hammett's novel Director was Roy Del Ruth, and  Maude Fulton along with Brown Holmes, and Lucien Hubbard wrote the screen adaptation. The film stars Ricardo Cortez as Sam Spade, with Bebe Daniels as Miss Wonderly, Dudley Digges as Caspar Gutman, Otto Matieson as Dr. Jole Cairo, and Dwight Frye as Wilmer Cook. 

By now Bogart, Lorre, Greenstreet, and Elisha Cook Jr. own the parts of Spade, Cairo, Gutman, and Wilmer. But I'll give a shout out to Cortez  for playing Spade as the "ladies man" he comes across as in the book, he's believably slimy and duplicitous, screwing his partners wife, probably doing Effie the secretary, and doing Miss Wonderly who is played convincingly slutty by Bebe Daniels who has also been doing just about everybody also. Daniels is head over heels better than Mary Astor as Miss Wonderly.  That said the rest '41 cast is better all the way around.

As far as story this version shows a little bit more of the tale than The Hayes Code wouldn't let be shown in the 40s. You get a more sexual Wonderly you see her suggestively naked in a tub, you see her pulling up her skirt and showing her bankroll hidden in her stocking top, later she submits to a strip search in Spades kitchen.

In Bogart's film, Wonderly comes off like a cold fish, she may have loved Spade she may not have. We'll never know. In this version, however, it's made clear, in a prison visit by Spade (that is not in the book), that she actually did care for him. 

This version seems to have more interesting sets but I'll have to watch the '41 film to compare before I can say definitely one way or the other. 7/10

Satan Met a Lady (1936) is a parody of the first version, Bette Davis plays the Wonderly part and Warren William plays Ted Shane filling the Spade part playing it like a con man, the Gutman part is played by a woman and they are all after the "Horn of Roland" in this version. The rest of this cast is forgettable. It does have a nice denouement in a downpour with the ship filling in for the La Paloma burning off shore.  5/10

Here below is what I wrote in 2012 about The Maltese Falcon (1941)

Its way more Hard Boiled than Noir.

The Maltese Falcon its not at all very dark, but it does have some stylistic touches i.e., shadows imposed by an elevator cage on the face of Mary Astor in her final shot for instance, and some nice camera angles, but none of it is very exaggerated as Noir will get later on in the cycle. 

TMFalcon03.jpg

Huston's film is the third time the Dashiell Hammett novel was filmed, the 1931 version actually told a bit more of the story and showed Spade as a real ladies man  as in the novel. This version (Hayes Code shackled) tones down the sexuality of Spade and the soiled dove quality of Brigid that the novel makes pretty obvious, it also eliminates Spade's strip search of Brigid near the end of the film.  

In the 1931 version the opening scene shows a pair of female legs adjusting her dress and walking out of Sam Spade's office followed by Spade (Ricardo Cortez) adjusting the pillows on the couch with the definite implication that hanky panky had been taking place. His relationship with Miss Wonderly seems to be sexual for sure and there's no question about his affair with partner Miles Archer's wife Iva. The 1936 "Satan Met a Lady" Betty Davis-William Warren vehicle changes quite a few elements but the story has basically the same dynamics.

You decide Astor or Daniels

1941 Astor

TMF.jpg

1931 Daniels

In tub

TheMalteseFalcon31bathtub.jpg 

strip search

TMfalcon31BB.jpg

legs

TMFalcon31BB01.jpg

There is no denying the iconic status of Bogart as Spade, Lorre as Cairo, Greenstreet as Gutman, or Elisha Cook Jr. as Wilmer, but I did like Bebe Daniels a whole lot better in the '31 turn than Mary Astor in this film. 

TMfalcon02.jpg

Having just read the original Black Mask Pulp version recently I can say that there really hasn't been a perfect version of The Maltese Falcon yet, though its going to hard trying to top certain aspects of this version.

This Warner DVD has a commentary by Bogart biographer Eric Lax, and a Warner Night at The Movies Short Subject Gallery that I haven't watched yet so I'll reply again after I do so. 8/10
 

I haven't seen the 1931 version in quite a while.  I found the 1941 Maltese Falcon dripped with atmosphere, one of the things about it I like most.  Astor's performance was very self-conscious, but it suited the film perfectly.  Bogart's Sam Spade knew she was untrustworthy, but he still had doubts at the end, or perhaps he pretended to have doubts.  The mind games both played against each other were a treat.     

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:13 AM, ChristineHoard said:

Eddie said Joan and Steve Cochran may have had a dressing room dalliance maybe to make Vincent Sherman jealous.  Shame on Joan if she didn't - Steve was HOT!

On another superficial note, I liked Joan in her swimsuit and cover-up and I definitely liked Steve in his swimwear.

I looked up the actress who played David Brian's wife.  Edith Evanson also played the housekeeper in ROPE.

Kent Smith was a nice looking guy and decent actor and quite good in this role (he is in CAT PEOPLE, too), as everybody was (great casting).  He sort of reminds me of Bruce Bennett - a serviceable, dependable actor.

 

In a previous Noir Alley presentation from this year which co-starred Steve Cochran, Eddie Muller recounted Cochran's life in Hollywood and his strange, untimely death.  Eddie said he was dishing with Mamie Van Doren about who some of the Hollywood 'studs and duds' were.  Van Doren said without a doubt, she'd put Cochran near the top of the list as one of the legendary studs in H-wood.

Edith Evanson also played one of Irene Dunne's sisters in 'I Remember Mama'.  She also played a small, but crucial part to the plot of 'The Big Heat', as the secretary to the mechanic who worked on Glenn Ford's car before said vehicle was blown to smithereens and claimed the life of his wife.  I've seen her in several other films on TCM.  She may have had limited range, but the roles she played were done well by her.

Agree with you about Kent Smith.  Like many other Hollywood stars, he was good enough to get enough work to earn a decent living, even though he wasn't considered an "A-lister".

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On 10/16/2018 at 9:53 AM, LornaHansonForbes said:

Not sure if you have seen MRS. PARKINGTON (1945)- but AGNES MOOREHEAD plays rather a similar role in many ways, I think the PUHtreeSHUH character in THE DAMNED DONT CRY was there as a suggestion of that.

I seem to recall a line that alludes to some gambling debts her character has incurred and thus why she is indebted to Castleman, but it's not hard to think of a connection.

So, you're talking about Selena Royle, right? The one who kind of makes-over "Ethel" into "Lorna" ?  (By the way, nobody's mentioned the Pygmalion aspect to this film. True. the "artist"/make-over person is a woman, and she doesn't fall in love with Ethel /Lorna. But then, a man is also involved as a kind of Professor Higgins character, no less than George Castleman. Between the two of them they transform Ethel into a "lady".  Ok, maybe it's a stretch, but that's what occurred to me when I was watching it...)

Anyway, I think Selena Royle bears a striking resemblance to Ann Harding, at least when the two ladies were middle-aged. In fact, I was convinced the "Pat-tree-shah" character was played by Ann Harding, til everyone here mentioned Selena Royle. But both women have the same kind of look and style.

Selena Royle:

Image result for patricia longworth the damned don't cry

 

Ann Harding:

Image result for ann harding

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Seems I'm either too late or too early for the party here half the time. Early, today, I guess. Oh well....

So, I enjoyed The Hunted. I do have a few quibbles. Like the pacing, which I thought was a bit slow a few times. Especially that first scene where newly released Laura Mead (Belita) is waiting for police detective Johnny Saxon (Preston Foster) in his apartment, Saxon walks in, and we get what seems like an hour of the two of them being cagey with each other, sort of discussing how he arrested her and therefore caused her to get four years in prison, despite her declarations of innocence. Ok, I get it that they were in love once, and each feels betrayed by the other. And, as Eddie pointed out, that scene's got some good moments, like when Belita is standing by the rain-washed window, the shadows of the rain drops falling gently down her face. Nice. But when I start wondering when a scene's going to end, it's a sign it's been going on too long, at least for me.

Another quibble:  Preston Foster is way too old for Belita. Yes, I know, it's a long-standing thing in movies, the man is always older than the woman in a romantic pairing. But Preston seems more like he'd be a father figure for Belita, rather than her lover. I like him, and he's a venerable player from the classic film era; but maybe they could have cast - oh, I don't know, someone like Van Helfin, or even Dick Powell - these guys were older than Belita, but not 23 years  worth of older.

I know Eddie mentioned this age difference in his intro.

I'll save any other thoughts for another post, since I've decided my posts on this thread are too long. One at a time  ?

 

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Just skimming the page above. Lots of good stuff. One comment to make; 'hard-boiled' isn't usually noir. Noir usually takes 'average joe' type characters and thrusts them into difficult situations. Detectives are 'hard-boiled' because they're trained to be; they get that way from experiences in the course of their jobs. They hardly ever crack-up or get shaky; they've seen it all before; its all routine for them.

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missw's comments on The Hunted, part 2  (how's that for self-aggrandizement?):

I'm afraid I was a bit negative, in my earlier post about this movie, with my "quibbles". There were lots of things I liked about it. For instance, the cinematography ( like the aforementioned rain at the window), and the dark streets - Laura/Belita was right to want an escort to walk her home at night.  (I'm going to refer to her as "Belita", because when I say "Laura", I think of the much more famous noir Laura.)

Eddie had a few things to say about Belita and her acting style. I actually find her ok as an actor. That hesitancy, a feeling that she doesn't "commit" to her lines, goes with the kind of character she plays. (I'd kind of liked to have heard her speak with her native English accent, but unless it was hard core Cockney, maybe it would have made her seem too posh for her character...) 

Anyway, whether by accident or unexpectedly good acting, Belita keeps us guessing as to her character's sincerity pretty much right to the end. We never know for sure if she is innocent until the very very end. She was like this in that other Belita vehicle on Noir Alley a few weeks ago, The Gangster. I think it's partly her odd acting style, and partly her looks: although she is pretty, it's in a non-traditional way, not classic beauty, she looks kind of vulnerable somehow. This makes her sympathetic to the audience, and works for her in terms of keeping us unsure as to what she's really all about.

SPOILER :  I do think, as Eddie suggests, that the "happy ending" feels a bit stuck on. I agree it would have made a better film, and certainly a more noirish one, had Belita killed Foster's character, not just nicked his arm. Then, in true noir fashion, the protagonist would have ended up dead, and the formerly innocent character would have ended up in jail, probably death row, for a crime that this time she actually did commit.

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Good comments Miss Wonderly on The Hunted, which I enjoyed - far more than The Gangster.  There were times when they took too long to get through a scene.  Perhaps we are too used to fast paced Noirs or ones with lots of activity?  I think Belita was fairly good in this and right up until the end I could have accepted her innocence or guilt.  My wife asked what skating had to do with the movie and my response was that it took the place of the obligatory song in many other movies of the period. Also that Belita was an Olympic skater.

Belita seemed to have more vitality than Preston Foster, but then he never does have much.  Of course the role didn't call for much vitality.  Appreciated the brief scenes near the end with Charles McGraw.

As for the happy ending, is there a rule that Noirs have to have depressing endings?  After all, Ann Miller goes off with Jim at the end of Out of the Past, which would lead to a much happier life than going off with Jeff Bailey.  Yes, I know the "stars" died in the end, but still....

I think Eddie's intros and outros are well done in this series.  While the movies are entertaining, his comments make them much more meaningful.  

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A new noir sub-genre--ice skating noir. Too slow and talky for the first hour. Things

improved a little when the lawyer was killed and Belita went on the run. I didn't think

she did any of the crimes she was accused of since she was one of the most mild-mannered

noir ladies around. Some of the visuals were good, but overall this thing was on the dull

side. And that corny Hollywood ending. I would complain about it more but I saw it coming

when Foster opened his apartment door, yep she'll be in there and she was. And couldn't

this poor guy even afford a bedroom? And Belita in The Cherry Orchard? Would have loved

to have seen that. 

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7 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

And that corny Hollywood ending. I would complain about it more but I saw it coming

when Foster opened his apartment door, yep she'll be in there and she was. And couldn't

this poor guy even afford a bedroom? And Belita in The Cherry Orchard? Would have loved

to have seen that. 

I saw the ending coming as well, especially since she had broken in to his apartment once already.

I too wondered why a police lieutenant was living in a no bedroom "apartment."

What is the Cherry Orchard?  Must have missed that.

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1 hour ago, TheCid said:

 

....What is the Cherry Orchard?  Must have missed that.

It's a play by Anton Chekhov, the Russian dramatist and short-story writer from the late 1800s. He also did Three Sisters and Uncle Vanya.  He's mostly known for his plays.  It is funny to think of the somewhat stiff Belita acting on stage in this famous piece of Russian literature. Wonder if she had the director add in a skating scene? Nah, might have been kind of hard to set up an ice rink on stage. And what if she'd fallen off ( as apparently she actually did once, hence the injury Eddie spoke of....)

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2 hours ago, TheCid said:

I saw the ending coming as well, especially since she had broken in to his apartment once already.

I too wondered why a police lieutenant was living in a no bedroom "apartment."

What is the Cherry Orchard?  Must have missed that.

I'm guessing a lot of film buffs saw that one coming, though it's more of the usual romantic

comedy ending. No big deal.  Her spending the night in his place was a bit interesting, but of

course they couldn't do anything with it at that time. Eddie mentioned in his outro that Belita

was in a few plays after her movie career ended, including Chekhov's The Cherry Orchard. I

don't think they could have put an ice skating scene into that one.

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The Hunted was the first film on Noir Alley I was sorry I watched. Usually I can find something of merit to keep me watching, but not this one. I wound up ffing through a bunch of dialog scenes (I wasnt watching it in real time) A lot of long, boring conversations between Belita and Foster (who himself was super boring) The film only got interesting towards the end. I think Eddie scheduled this because of his fondness for Belita. Even the camera work was boring. Nothing moved!

DUD!

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16 hours ago, Vautrin said:

A new noir sub-genre--ice skating noir. Too slow and talky for the first hour. Things

improved a little when the lawyer was killed and Belita went on the run. I didn't think

she did any of the crimes she was accused of since she was one of the most mild-mannered

noir ladies around. Some of the visuals were good, but overall this thing was on the dull

side. And that corny Hollywood ending. I would complain about it more but I saw it coming

when Foster opened his apartment door, yep she'll be in there and she was. And couldn't

this poor guy even afford a bedroom? And Belita in The Cherry Orchard? Would have loved

to have seen that. 

Couldnt agree more! Talk, talk, talk. SNORE.

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7 hours ago, Hibi said:

Couldnt agree more! Talk, talk, talk. SNORE.

Yeah, it was hard to get very excited about this one, even with not having seen it before.

That long scene where she spends the night and they blather on for who knows how long

was deadly. A few good parts, but on the whole pretty mediocre. Hey, they can't all be

winners. 

 

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41 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

Yeah, it was hard to get very excited about this one, even with not having seen it before.

That long scene where she spends the night and they blather on for who knows how long

was deadly. A few good parts, but on the whole pretty mediocre. Hey, they can't all be

winners. 

 

This one definitely wasnt! LOL.

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7 hours ago, Hibi said:

I'm not familiar with that title either. We shall see!

I don't usually look to see what the noir film will be, but I took a peek. I haven't

seen it either, and if it turns out to be a lemon, you've only lost an hour of time.

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