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Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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56 minutes ago, TheCid said:

From the British Noirs I have seen, I would prefer they keep doing American.  I have watched a few and always been disappointed.  As for French, I assume they would all be in French with subtitles, so I would pass on that as well.

Your loss pilgrim.

I'm sure you like Night and the City (1950) with Widmark, Tierney, Hugh Marlowe, Googie Withers, Francis L. Sullivan and Herbert Lom. If you do its sort of a gateway Noir to other British Noirs along with Terror on a Train (1953) with Glen Ford.

You probably haven't see the right ones. I Became a Criminal (1947) with Trevor Howard is excellent. The Long Memory (1953) with John Mills, Brighton Rock (1948) with  Richard Attenborough, Pool Of London with Bonar Colleano, Earl Cameron, For Them That Trespass (1949) with Stephen Murray and Richard Todd, are also good. Another great one is Never Let Go (1960) with Peter Sellers and Richard Todd.

But there are plenty others that we never see. The Blue Lamp (1950) is one that is highly thought of, but I've never seen it.

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27 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Your loss pilgrim.

I'm sure you like Night and the City (1950) with Widmark, Tierney, Hugh Marlowe, Googie Withers, Francis L. Sullivan and Herbert Lom. If you do its sort of a gateway Noir to other British Noirs along with Terror on a Train (1953) with Glen Ford.

You probably haven't see the right ones. I Became a Criminal (1947) with Trevor Howard is excellent. The Long Memory (1953) with John Mills, Brighton Rock (1948) with  Richard Attenborough, Pool Of London with Bonar Colleano, Earl Cameron, For Them That Trespass (1949) with Stephen Murray and Richard Todd, are also good. Another great one is Never Let Go (1960) with Peter Sellers and Richard Todd.

But there are plenty others that we never see. The Blue Lamp (1950) is one that is highly thought of, but I've never seen it.

Have seen Night and Terror both - didn't care for them.  Ironically I am a big fan of trains.  Have never cared for Peter Sellers in any movie.

My loss, Pilgrim.

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2 hours ago, TheCid said:

Have seen Night and Terror both - didn't care for them.  Ironically I am a big fan of trains.  Have never cared for Peter Sellers in any movie.

My loss, Pilgrim.

It sure is too bad, I for one and probably I'm sure others would rather watch something new rather than the same ol same ol. 

BTW if you love trains you should watch the original opening sequence of La Bête Humaine, remade as Human Desire, it's got a nice sequence of a steam locomotive picking up water on the fly from a track pan, its pretty cool.

PS there are some great Japanese and German Noir and probably others out there also

 

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On 6/21/2019 at 2:30 PM, cinemaspeak59 said:

Terrific discussion on Pickup on South Street.  One of the things I liked were the love scenes between Skip and Candy, the way he stroked her face, almost massaging it.  The scene was beautifully lit, with the bay in the background, and the twinkling lights of New York (vividly created on the Fox sound stages).  Candy gave Skip a shot at redemption, and he took it.  Was the ending a little too pat? Perhaps.  Moe’s death jolted Skip out of his cynical and dangerous moral equivalency. He finally had to pick a side.  I think the women, Candy and Moe, were the heroes, even with their flaws. 

This, to me, is the most insightful post so far about Pickup on South Street. I feel as though cinemaspeak "gets" what I was trying to say about the movie. Probably not from anything I said, I didn't mean that - just that they watched and understood the film and its characters in the same way I did.

The first time I saw Pickup on South Street, I could not believe how erotically charged that first scene is between Skip and Candy. I agree, the way he gently strokes her face is both tender and suggestive, leading up to one of the sexiest kisses I've ever seen in film. And I like the way you figure that Skip changed after Moe's death, that it "jolted" him out of his "cynical moral equivalency" (nice turn of phrase.)

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23 hours ago, Looney said:

Okay to start my discussion of PICK UP ON SOUTH STREET (1953) I will say that I definitely distinguish between Skip and Dix.  ...

  

PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET's (1953) Skip versus THE ASPHALT JUNGLE'S (1950) Dix.

I can see why people would be sympathetic to Dix, but I don't see how having a hard life is an excuse for using your physical prowess to brutalize people.  I think impressions of Dix would be greatly different if we were shown Dix brutalizing people.  I think if Dix were shown brutalizing the witness from early on in the film people wouldn't sympathize with him as much.  Instead we are shown Dix in a sympathetic light. 

Skip on the other hand uses his wits and I think he feels more like he is playing a game, but where he runs afoul is that he definitely has a nasty side that he seems to enjoy.  He might take care of Moe, but there were plenty of times in the film where it was pretty obvious he wouldn't do anything close to that for Candy.  Skip is definitely more selfish than Dix, but I feel Dix is worse because he physically brutalizes people.  And the way it is described it sounds like Dix brutalizes them for chump change.  I honestly don't sympathize with either of them, but I still think they are great characters.

Ok; I don't know why I keep spending time arguing this point, defending a fictional character in a movie not that many people in 2019 even know about. Why I should feel compelled to talk yet again about Dix in Asphalt Jungle when, aside from anything else, we're now moved on to two noirs later, I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm always a bit surprised at the very different ways people can interpret the same movie. Although, of course, that's what makes these message boards fun - if we all thought the exact same way about everything we watched, it'd be pretty boring here blah blah...

Anyway...I find it interesting, Looney, that you keep speaking of Dix as "brutal", and of how he "brutalizes" people. But actually, we the audience don't see much of that kind of violence from Dix at all. True, he scowls a lot at people he doesn't like (like Cobby), and he also threatens people a lot (like the guy who puts him and Doc up in his spare apartment, right near the film's conclusion.) But there's nothing specific to indicate that he "brutalized" the witness who's supposed to identify the thief who robbed him (I think?) right at the beginning. Sterling Hayden is in the line-up, and yeah, it's pretty clear that he's the guilty party. I actually think it's funny how Dix scowls out at the witness and cops - he does look scary ! But since we do see Dix doing a lot of threatening in Asphalt Jungle, my impression is, when he robbed that guy, he threatened something violent would happen to him if he "fingered" Dix. There's nothing really to suggest the witness was actually beaten up.

It seems to me what Looney (and maybe Cid) are going by, in their character assessment of Dix, is what the police keep saying about him. They're the ones who iterate, several times, that Dix is "dangerous" and a "brutal hood", etc. But then, they also say that Doc is "a very dangerous criminal", when in fact, we clearly see that while Doc is a criminal, for sure, he plans and carries out a major jewellery heist, not once do we see Doc being "dangerous" or violent in any way to any one. In fact, he declares to Dix that he does not want a gun, and has never carried one. So it's obvious the police, especially that self-righteous chief, label anyone who's a law-breaker as "dangerous".

When I watch a film like Asphalt Jungle -or, for that matter, Pickup on South Street - I form my opinion of the characters in the films by their actions, by what they do and say, not by what the officials who want to catch them say about them.

I thought the most obnoxious people in both movies were the police themselves, especially the insufferably sanctimonious Police Commissioner Hardy in Asphalt Jungle.   The authorities were the most dislikable characters in both films.

And that includes the "Commies" ! (in "Pickup".)

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13 hours ago, Dargo said:

So, I guess somebody at TCM must've thought Eddie's INTRO for Shadow on the Wall this evening was SO nice that they'd play it twice, eh?!

Instead of any outtro, that is.

Wonder what that was all about?

Heck, the only reason I stayed tuned throughout the film (and one I'd seen a number of times before) was to hear what Eddie's closing remarks might be about the production of it and/or the some of the actors' histories in it.

(...especially, or should I say "hopefully" about that knockout blonde Kristine Miller who bites the dust in this thing WAY too early for my tastes...ended up having to go to her Wiki bio page in order to get the lowdown on THAT beauty)

"Knockout blonde", eh? Really? Well, you're probably a better judge of a woman's attractiveness than I am, but I actually thought she was just passing ok-looking. Actually, I thought she looked like she was made out of wax.

But then, her character is such a b!tch (is anyone sorry when she gets killed?), that perhaps my assessment of her appearance was affected by that. I actually think Ann Sothern is prettier. How come "Crane" (what the hell kind of a name is that?) preferred that wax-faced tart to her much nicer sister?  (well, "nice" until she started making plans to commit infanticide...)

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36 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

This, to me, is the most insightful post so far about Pickup on South Street. And I like the way you figure that Skip changed after Moe's death, that it "jolted" him out of his "cynical moral equivalency" (nice turn of phrase.)

16 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Anyway...I find it interesting, Looney, that you keep speaking of Dix as "brutal", and of how he "brutalizes" people. But actually, we the audience don't see much of that kind of violence from Dix at all..... my impression is, when he robbed that guy, he threatened something violent would happen to him if he "fingered" Dix. There's nothing really to suggest the witness was actually beaten up.

Yes it is a nice turn of phrase, but I didn't see that happen in the movie.  I thought that might be what happened after Moe was killed, but personally I didn't catch much of a change in Skip's attitude.  He even remarks about getting the money being the only thing that mattered after Moe is gone.  Maybe I need to see it again because I missed something, but I do remember thinking Moe's death is where Skip will become the hero and then I didn't really see much change.  He went after the bad guys in the end, but that seemed to be more of a survival instinct; like I'll get them before they get me.

BUT this does point to the quality of the film that it can generate this much discussion.  If I collected Widmark movies this would definitely be the top of the list for his performances as far as what I've seen previously - down a notch goes THE BEDFORD INCIDENT (1965). :D  I mean I have always enjoyed his work, but this is pretty damn great.

Okay and back to Dix in THE ASPHALT JUNGLE (1950) since misswonderly3 just made a fantastic point.  As I said earlier, I think our opinions would change if we saw Dix committing the crime that seems "brutal".  BUT what was just said makes total and complete sense when I think of what we saw in the movie.  What I see is the first victim who appears to have been brutalized, though not injured, in a state of fear that prevents him from putting the finger on Dix.  BUT what misswonderly3 said makes sooooo much more sense from what we see from Dix most of the rest of the movie and that is that he threatened, but likely didn't actually harm the first victim.  Still pretty heinous, but not the brutality I was imagining that put the victim into a state that prevented him from identifying Dix. 

And as for SHADOWS ON THE WALL, I like how sympathic Dell was at the beginning and how that changed.

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Not to be all finger-waggy and picayune, but the title of the film is "Shadow on the Wall" - "shadow" is singular. I think you yourself ( Looney) observed that "shadow" makes more sense than "shadowS",plural, as indeed it does. It's that one terrifying shadow (of Ann Sothern's character outlined against the bedroom wall, with that ridiculous feathered hat -who wouldn't be frightened of that thing?)that is the crux of the biscuit of the entire film.

What I want to know is, since Dell (Sothern) is aware that little Susan knows that she saw some kind of figure with a feather or other such object emerging from the top of their head, she knows Susan compares it to her Indian doll  (I wince a little at the political incorrectness of that but what the frig, it was 1950). So yes, she does throw out the incriminating hat. But why does she wear that silly hair bow in the final scene? It's that enormous bow that gives her away. Thank god for those silly fashions back then, otherwise that poor little girl would have been tossed into the lake (it was a house in the country, right?) and this time she would have drowned. Either that or Dell would have found a tasteless poison to stir into the chocolate milk.

Speaking of which, damn, that scene with the poisoned chocolate milk and the two kids debating the pros and cons of drinking it is edge-of-the-seat suspenseful. What if that poor little boy had drunk it? And what was Dell thinking? Clearly she wasn't a very good schemer of murders, or she would have known that the poison could be traced in whichever unfortunate kid had consumed it. But happily, Susan knocks it over before any harm is done to either child. Dell's the only one who might cry over that spilt milk (sorry, couldn't resist.)

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I got two intros too, wherein we learn that l'il Gigi had already appeared in 150 movies before

this one or something like that. Not worried about the outro, that's what Wiki's for. I was just

happy they showed a movie I had never seen before. As the movie went on I was wondering if

Gigi could have seen anything in the time frame of the murder, sort of like the nurse not

hearing CFK say rosebud because she came in after he said it. I'll have to pay attention to that

if SOTW shows up again. And I was glad we didn't have to spend the last hour of the movie

watching mommy endlessly interviewing Gigi about what happened that night. Ann Sothern

did the same thing so many dumb criminals do in movies. Instead of staying away she goes

about sticking her nose in and trying all kinds of schemes that will only incriminate her further.

And even for Hollywood the sudden ending was pretty contrived. Ann just happens to turn

on the outdoor light illuminating that huge wall so the kiddie will suddenly grok onto what 

happened. Whatever. And I'm happy that the maid quit domestic service and married Ward

Cleaver. All in all a fairly entertaining flick with some good moments and scenes that hang

together well, though far short of a classic. 

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1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

Not to be all finger-waggy and picayune, but the title of the film is "Shadow on the Wall" - "shadow" is singular. I think you yourself ( Looney) observed that "shadow" makes more sense than "shadowS",plural, as indeed it does. It's that one terrifying shadow (of Ann Sothern's character outlined against the bedroom wall, with that ridiculous feathered hat -who wouldn't be frightened of that thing?)that is the crux of the biscuit of the entire film.

So I can get that finger out of my face here is what happened....

I went to watch the Eddie's Outro this morning.  TCM's SLING TV ON DEMAND has a picture of a movie poster that says "SHADOWS ON THE WALL" but underneath the picture it says "SHADOW ON THE WALL" with the correct date and cast.  I just went back to double check and I learned that TCM uploaded the incorrect picture.  I couldn't find the exact pic, but it is similar to this poster from the 1986 film SHADOWS ON THE WALL.  Take Wilfred Brimley out and focus on the background and that is a similar pic to what TCM uploaded.

 

Shadows on the Wall (1986).jpg

 

And after I said such nice things about your Dix theory.... :(   :P  ;)

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6 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

"Knockout blonde", eh? Really? Well, you're probably a better judge of a woman's attractiveness than I am, but I actually thought she was just passing ok-looking. Actually, I thought she looked like she was made out of wax.

But then, her character is such a b!tch (is anyone sorry when she gets killed?), that perhaps my assessment of her appearance was affected by that. I actually think Ann Sothern is prettier. How come "Crane" (what the hell kind of a name is that?) preferred that wax-faced tart to her much nicer sister?  (well, "nice" until she started making plans to commit infanticide...)

Sorry MissW, but while Ann Sothern has or had what I would call a "pleasant" look in this film and indeed in most of her films, first, I always thought her face was just a little too "plump" for my tastes, what with those big apple cheeks of hers. Don't get me wrong here, though. Over the years and the more films of hers I watched, the more it seems I've developed an appreciation for her terrific acting talents.

Secondly, I thought Kristine Miller's facial proportions could rightly be described to be more in what might be called the "classic beauty" type.

And yes, I do think and as you yourself suggested, that the character Miss Miller played, that of being the cold-as-ice and philandering woman, helped sway your opinion about the relative attractiveness of these two actresses.

(...and one more thing here...remember during the scene in which Sothern confronts Miller about always getting the attention taken from her by her various male suitors during their formative years?...well, I don't believe the casting director for this film would have picked an actress that he would have thought LESS physically attractive than Sothern to play the sister who always turned the heads of all the men in these two women's lives, wouldn't ya say?!)

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On 6/23/2019 at 2:02 AM, Dargo said:

(...especially, or should I say "hopefully" about that knockout blonde Kristine Miller who bites the dust in this thing WAY too early for my tastes...ended up having to go to her Wiki bio page in order to get the lowdown on THAT beauty)

I have to strongly agree with this statement, Dargo. It's been a few years since I saw Shadow on the Wall, which I don't recall well and didn't make much of an impression upon me, but I was struck by the stunning, classy high cheekbone beauty of Kristine Miller in Too Late for Tears and wondered why I had never heard of her before. She played the "nice" girl in that film who becomes suspicious of Liz Scott and I was purring just looking at her.

Hollywood is full of stories of actors/actresses who make a small impression in a film or two (such as Miller did for me in Too Late, physically, at least, while dramatically she was quite adequate in one of the film's less showy roles) but then seem to disappear. And you have to wonder, why, what happened to them?

13655_4.jpg

That's Kristen on the left.

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13 hours ago, Dargo said:

Sorry MissW, but while Ann Sothern has or had what I would call a "pleasant" look in this film and indeed in most of her films, first, I always thought her face was just a little too "plump" for my tastes, what with those big apple cheeks of hers. Don't get me wrong here, though. Over the years and the more films of hers I watched, the more it seems I've developed an appreciation for her terrific acting talents.

Secondly, I thought Kristine Miller's facial proportions could rightly be described to be more in what might be called the "classic beauty" type.

And yes, I do think and as you yourself suggested, that the character Miss Miller played, that of being the cold-as-ice and philandering woman, helped sway your opinion about the relative attractiveness of these two actresses.

(...and one more thing here...remember during the scene in which Sothern confronts Miller about always getting the attention taken from her by her various male suitors during their formative years?...well, I don't believe the casting director for this film would have picked an actress that he would have thought LESS physically attractive than Sothern to play the sister who always turned the heads of all the men in these two women's lives, wouldn't ya say?!)

Well, Dargs, as we all know, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". But yes, you do make some good points. It's true that because Ann Sothern's screen persona is usually likable, I might have been predisposed to prefer her looks in Shadow on the Wall to Kristine Miller's.

...But then, at least Miller's character, cold and unfaithful though she may have been, showed no indication she was planning to kill a little girl !

Anyway, I've kind of changed my mind about Kristine Miller, if not about her "beauty" (which is still not that apparent to me), at least in terms of her likability as an actress. I looked her up and discovered that she was in an earlier Noir Alley feature, Too Late for Tears (starring a diabolical Lizabeth Scott.) Miller played the very sympathetic sister of the unfortunate Arthur Kennedy character. She was also in at least one other noir, I Walk Alone. Not a very big part, though.

In fact, as you say Dargo, Kristine Miller never seemed to get major roles in films..... Maybe it's because she always looked like she's made out of wax !😁

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18 hours ago, yanceycravat said:

For the record -

Eddie's Wrap-Up for Shadow on the Wall did air on Sunday morning.

Glad I got to see it!

 

Yes, I recorded the end to see if they ran the right wraparound. They did! Very strange to see the beginning run twice on Sat. night. I was half expecting them to run the movie a second time!

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4 hours ago, TomJH said:

I have to strongly agree with this statement, Dargo. It's been a few years since I saw Shadow on the Wall, which I don't recall well and didn't make much of an impression upon me, but I was struck by the stunning, classy high cheekbone beauty of Kristine Miller in Too Late for Tears and wondered why I had never heard of her before. She played the "nice" girl in that film who becomes suspicious of Liz Scott and I was purring just looking at her.

Hollywood is full of stories of actors/actresses who make a small impression in a film or two (such as Miller did for me in Too Late, physically, at least, while dramatically she was quite adequate in one of the film's less showy roles) but then seem to disappear. And you have to wonder, why, what happened to them?

13655_4.jpg

That's Kristen on the left.

Sorry, Tom, I wrote my post before seeing that you'd already mentioned Miller's turn in Too Late for Tears.

It's going to look like I really have it in for this actress, and honestly, I don't. I liked her in Too Late for Tears, and I've got nothing against her. It's just this "she's such a stunning beauty" thing that I don't get. Kind of like Ava Gardner, whom I've also never thought was the amazing ideal of female pulchritude that so many seem to think she is. (Funny how an ugly word like "pulchritude" can mean the opposite of how it sounds.)

Anyway, as I said, I'm not picking on Kristine, and I'll leave her alone after this. But still, honestly, I think she had what is now called "resting b!tch face."

sorry.

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17 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I got two intros too, wherein we learn that l'il Gigi had already appeared in 150 movies before

this one or something like that. Not worried about the outro, that's what Wiki's for. I was just

happy they showed a movie I had never seen before. As the movie went on I was wondering if

Gigi could have seen anything in the time frame of the murder, sort of like the nurse not

hearing CFK say rosebud because she came in after he said it. I'll have to pay attention to that

if SOTW shows up again. And I was glad we didn't have to spend the last hour of the movie

watching mommy endlessly interviewing Gigi about what happened that night. Ann Sothern

did the same thing so many dumb criminals do in movies. Instead of staying away she goes

about sticking her nose in and trying all kinds of schemes that will only incriminate her further.

And even for Hollywood the sudden ending was pretty contrived. Ann just happens to turn

on the outdoor light illuminating that huge wall so the kiddie will suddenly grok onto what 

happened. Whatever. And I'm happy that the maid quit domestic service and married Ward

Cleaver. All in all a fairly entertaining flick with some good moments and scenes that hang

together well, though far short of a classic. 

 

LOL. I hadn't noticed Barbara Billingsley  until the final credits! I couldn't stand the Gigi character so I was rooting for Ann to succeed, the first time I saw it. Definitely not a classic, but worth seeing once.

 

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4 hours ago, TomJH said:

And you have to wonder, why, what happened to them?

Looks like she segued right into TV making a movie occasionally. She's got comparatively a substantial bio on IMDb

"Miller's last television appearance was as Ruth Hudson in the 1961 episode "Prince Jim" of NBC's Tales of Wells Fargo (1957), starring Dale Robertson. Of the genres and cross-genres spanning her film career, Miller participated in making five traditional noirs, one noir-thriller, four Westerns, two noir Westerns, one religious Western, three military dramas, two comedies, one comedy-drama, one soap opera, one religious drama and one musical. Seven of Miller's roles were walk-ons or deleted from the final film. Her television work involved similar genres. In contradistinction to being only a supporting actress as described by most film historians, she was leading lady in six of 22 films.

Due to demands of family and her husband's business, Miller retired from acting. The Schuylers left Los Angeles for the San Francisco Bay Area in the early 1960s. Previous to the move, her husband was setting up television stations throughout Northern California, such as Sacramento's KSCH and KTVU in Oakland. Together with William they founded two television stations in Monterey-KMST and the Spanish-language KSMS. The Schuylers eventually settled on the Monterey peninsula in 1969, where William became president of the Schuyler Broadcasting Corporation. The Schuylers later lived in Idaho during the 1990s, where they started two television stations. They returned to Monterey in June 2001. Ever civic-minded since her Hollywood days, Kristine Miller has lectured on her experience in film and television in Monterey as well as participating in local charitable activities." IMDb

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17 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Sorry, Tom, I wrote my post before seeing that you'd already mentioned Miller's turn in Too Late for Tears.

It's going to look like I really have it in for this actress, and honestly, I don't. I liked her in Too Late for Tears, and I've got nothing against her. It's just this "she's such a stunning beauty" thing that I don't get. Kind of like Ava Gardner, whom I've also never thought was the amazing ideal of female pulchritude that so many seem to think she is. (Funny how an ugly word like "pulchritude" can mean the opposite of how it sounds.)

Anyway, as I said, I'm not picking on Kristine, and I'll leave her alone after this. But still, honestly, I think she had what is now called "resting b!tch face."

sorry.

So not only do you not "get" the beauty of Kristin Miller but the drop dead gorgeous Ava Gardner, as well, MissW? If you add Rita Hayworth (RITA HAYWORTH!!!) to that list, as well, I can only say that we appear to have entirely different viewpoints on female beauty.

MV5BYTUyNzFkODUtNDA4Zi00YWMxLWJlMzAtZDE2

Rita at the peak of her beauty, as Gilda.

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I don't think Kristin Miller is in the Ava or Rita category....

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8 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Looks like she segued right into TV making a movie occasionally. She's got comparatively a substantial bio on IMDb

"Miller's last television appearance was as Ruth Hudson in the 1961 episode "Prince Jim" of NBC's Tales of Wells Fargo (1957), starring Dale Robertson. Of the genres and cross-genres spanning her film career, Miller participated in making five traditional noirs, one noir-thriller, four Westerns, two noir Westerns, one religious Western, three military dramas, two comedies, one comedy-drama, one soap opera, one religious drama and one musical. Seven of Miller's roles were walk-ons or deleted from the final film. Her television work involved similar genres. In contradistinction to being only a supporting actress as described by most film historians, she was leading lady in six of 22 films.

Due to demands of family and her husband's business, Miller retired from acting. The Schuylers left Los Angeles for the San Francisco Bay Area in the early 1960s. Previous to the move, her husband was setting up television stations throughout Northern California, such as Sacramento's KSCH and KTVU in Oakland. Together with William they founded two television stations in Monterey-KMST and the Spanish-language KSMS. The Schuylers eventually settled on the Monterey peninsula in 1969, where William became president of the Schuyler Broadcasting Corporation. The Schuylers later lived in Idaho during the 1990s, where they started two television stations. They returned to Monterey in June 2001. Ever civic-minded since her Hollywood days, Kristine Miller has lectured on her experience in film and television in Monterey as well as participating in local charitable activities." IMDb

You know it's really a case of getting the right breaks with the roles attained for a little known actress like Kristine Miller. I see that she did a lot of TV work after Too Late for Tears and appeared in a few films with largely undistinguished titles. The one exception to that was an unbilled part as Donna Reed's roommate in From Here to Eternity. The fact that Miller was unbilled in that film just four years after a fairly sizable role in Too Late for Tears seems to indicate that her career was in a struggle at that point.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_ePH6uDOIy-cIKhv9jGF

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1 minute ago, Hibi said:

I don't think Kristin Miller is in the Ava or Rita category....

Kristine Miller never got the big glamour treatment that Hayworth had in her career. Ever seen Hayworth back in her '30s films before she got the star treatment? She was pretty but hardly in the same league that she would be in by the time of You Were Never Lovelier or Cover Girl. You might have a different impression of Miller's beauty (which is abundantly apparent to some of us, anyway, even without the big glamour buildup) if she had benefited from the same studio support that Hayworth had received.

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Maybe. But I found her just ok looking. Not someone I'd look twice at on the street...

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20 minutes ago, TomJH said:

You know it's really a case of getting the right breaks with the roles attained for a little known actress like Kristine Miller. I see that she did a lot of TV work after Too Late for Tears and appeared in a few films with largely undistinguished titles. The one exception to that was an unbilled part as Donna Reed's roommate in From Here to Eternity. The fact that Miller was unbilled in that film just four years after a fairly sizable role in Too Late for Tears seems to indicate that her career was in a struggle at that point.

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Not as impressed with Miller's beauty as some others, but that is relative to each person anyway.

Regardless, I think it was in ImDB or Wikipedia that she joked that only her arm ended up in From Here to Eternity.  Everything else ended up on the cutting room floor.  Appears more than her are showed up.

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51 minutes ago, TomJH said:

So not only do you not "get" the beauty of Kristin Miller but the drop dead gorgeous Ava Gardner, as well, MissW? If you add Rita Hayworth (RITA HAYWORTH!!!) to that list, as well, I can only say that we appear to have entirely different viewpoints on female beauty.

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Rita at the peak of her beauty, as Gilda.

Well, as I said before, that cliche "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" really holds true, especially when it comes to varying opinions about classic film star beauty.

Maybe it's also partly a "gender" thing - as in, I'm a hetero female, so perhaps my judgement of female attractiveness is quite different from a hetero man's. Many posters here (I'm thinking of Arturo, for one) have enthused about the irresistible, jaw-dropping beauty and sensuality of Ava Gardner. So maybe you have to be a hetero male to "get" that about her.

As for Rita Hayworth, to me there's no comparison between her and Ava...Rita really is "jaw-droppingly beautiful", especially in Gilda. (as in  "...Decent?...Who, me?" )

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