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Noir Alley

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5 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Duff and Lupino were married at the time (and remained together until 1966,  divorcing in 1984).

Maybe she keep her husband in check.

(it is Andrews that was drinking a lot when this film was made,,,, on and off screen).

 

 

And Sanders . .  and Mitchell . . . etc. etc. (At least according to Eddie!)

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On 7/29/2019 at 12:32 PM, speedracer5 said:

I was just thinking, will it come to a point when Eddie Muller has run out of noir to feature on his series? Will he end the series? Will he do repeats with new intros and closings? 

Well, Noir Alley has had some repeat showings since the series began, but with so many people available to talk about regardless if they were well known for being in front of the camera or behind it, I think Eddie would have a cornucopia of ideas and angles to discuss for our curious minds!

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On 7/30/2019 at 8:01 PM, laffite said:

What, no love for Thieves Highway? It was the Noir Alley feature right? I can't watch but I looked at the schedule. Anyway, no surprise, perhaps. It's seem competent but may lack some of the juicer elements of vintage noir.

I agree. THIEVES HIGHWAY was entertaining, but not one of my favorites. I was surprised to hear it's the film that ignited Eddie's love of noir. I realize many accept a very broad definition of what is considered Film Noir . For me, classic noir is more in the vein of films like DOUBLE INDEMNITY, THE BIG SLEEP, THE MALTESE FALCON, and THE LADY IN THE LAKE. I prefer films that feature a private eye, a femme fatale and a crooked cop or businessman. Granted there are many noir films that don't fit this mold which I find entertaining such as THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE and many more. However, they just don't make my top ten.

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11 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

I agree. THIEVES HIGHWAY was entertaining, but not one of my favorites. I was surprised to hear it's the film that ignited Eddie's love of noir. I realize many accept a very broad definition of what is considered Film Noir . For me, classic noir is more in the vein of films like DOUBLE INDEMNITY, THE BIG SLEEP, THE MALTESE FALCON, and THE LADY IN THE LAKE. I prefer films that feature a private eye, a femme fatale and a crooked cop or businessman. Granted there are many noir films that don't fit this mold which I find entertaining such as THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE and many more. However, they just don't make my top ten.

I'll bet the story being set and filmed in Eddie's hometown of San Francisco had more than a little to do with this.

In fact, I believe Eddie inferred this very thing during his intro for this film, and when he relayed how during his teenage years he stumbled across this movie on television.

(...being a native Angeleno myself, I often find discovering previously unknown to me noirs, and especially B-movie or lower budget noirs that are set and filmed in a mid-century Los Angeles of which I have vague childhood memories, will often elevate their appeal to me) 

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38 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

I agree. THIEVES HIGHWAY was entertaining, but not one of my favorites. I was surprised to hear it's the film that ignited Eddie's love of noir. I realize many accept a very broad definition of what is considered Film Noir . For me, classic noir is more in the vein of films like DOUBLE INDEMNITY, THE BIG SLEEP, THE MALTESE FALCON, and THE LADY IN THE LAKE. I prefer films that feature a private eye, a femme fatale and a crooked cop or businessman. Granted there are many noir films that don't fit this mold which I find entertaining such as THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE and many more. However, they just don't make my top ten.

The film Laura doesn't make your top ten?  

 

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If DANA ANDREWS was a private eye in that one it might have.  ;)  

Sepiatone

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

The film Laura doesn't make your top ten?  

 

Yes. LAURA is definitely in my top ten. As is THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW. I won't go so far as to list my "top ten" although I think that would make for a fun thread. Hopefully, someone else will start such a thread. My guess is, it's probably already been done.

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Well one more week to wait, though I did manage to catch a few noir during SUTS, last nights Noir was Deadline at Dawn in a pretty nice print. I also had two box sets of Brit Noirs to sample when going through Noir withdrawals.

September schedule is...

The Big Clock 9/7

Nocturne 9/14

Woman on the Beach 9/21

The Harder They Fall 9/28

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21 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

Well one more week to wait, though I did manage to catch a few noir during SUTS, last nights Noir was Deadline at Dawn in a pretty nice print. I also had two box sets of Brit Noirs to sample when going through Noir withdrawals.

September schedule is...

The Big Clock 9/7

Nocturne 9/14

Woman on the Beach 9/21

The Harder They Fall 9/28

The Harder They Fall is noir?

Okay, forget it, I don't want to get into the labelling. Noir buffs love to rationalize and justify most anything as derivative of noir.

For the record, this film is an indictment of boxing (and a good one). That much I know for sure. Yeh, there's a lot of seediness connected with it too, of course, and you can say that some people feel trapped by a crime organization. I'm sure that Eddie Muller will have his explanation for including it. Whatever . . .

Bottom line: an effective Bogart went out with a good film. That's what really matters.

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53 minutes ago, TomJH said:

The Harder They Fall is noir?

I take it you are not a "Noir buff"? 😎

53 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Noir buffs love to rationalize and justify most anything as derivative of noir.

Sort of like Classic film buffs who love to rationalize and justify most anything pre 1959 Hollywood movie-mill filler as a "Classic" film.

It's TCM's list not mine, I'd have to watch it. I don't think I've ever sat down and watched it completely, just caught the tail end of it once or twice. I'll see if it tunes for me.

Noir isn't a genre it's subjective. A combo of visual style and story that either clicks with you or it doesn't. Hence the wide range of opinions and respective films.

I prefer to call it tuning. You tune to the films or you don't. 

 

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I'm looking forward to The Harder They Fall as well.  I've only seen part of this movie.  I also love boxing movies, so I anticipate enjoying the film. 

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2 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

I take it you are not a "Noir buff"? 😎

Sort of like Classic film buffs who love to rationalize and justify most anything pre 1959 Hollywood movie-mill filler as a "Classic" film.

It's TCM's list not mine, I'd have to watch it. I don't think I've ever sat down and watched it completely, just caught the tail end of it once or twice. I'll see if it tunes for me.

Noir isn't a genre it's subjective. A combo of visual style and story that either clicks with you or it doesn't. Hence the wide range of opinions and respective films.

I prefer to call it tuning. You tune to the films or you don't. 

 

The Harder They Fall is a good film, no matter what label is applied to it.

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2 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

I take it you are not a "Noir buff"? 😎

 

I don't see how my questioning whether a particular film is a noir implies that I don't like the genre. I just get tired of the "is it or isn't it a noir" debate that some noir fans love to have.

Eddie Muller once said that he presented a film (I forget the title) at one of his film presentations and someone stood up at the end and proclaimed, "That's not noir! It's romantic melodrama!" I think the guy may have then indignantly stormed out of the room.

Pardon me if I think, "Hey pal, get a life!" Did you enjoy the film, did it make you think, did it capture your interest even if it isn't quite a good movie, that's what counts. Forget this obsession with a label.

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11 minutes ago, TomJH said:

I don't see how my questioning whether a particular film is a noir implies that I don't like the genre. I just get tired of the "is it or isn't it a noir" debate that some noir fans love to have.

Eddie Muller once said that he presented a film (I forget the title) at one of his film presentations and someone stood up at the end and proclaimed, "That's not noir! It's romantic melodrama!" I think the guy may have then indignantly stormed out of the room.

Pardon me if I think, "Hey pal, get a life!" Did you enjoy the film, did it make you think, did it capture your interest even if it isn't quite a good movie, that's what counts. Forget this obsession with a label.

I agree with you re: the labeling.  I also agree with Joe on noir being subjective rather than a definitive genre.  TCM doesn't even label the films as noir. I'm sure most films possess traits of multiple genres.

It's hilarious to me that someone would be so upset about Muller's "mis-labeling" of a film that they would actually leave the room. Just think about what other trivial things they probably overreact to in their day to day life? 

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Besides, I thought some time ago most of us agreed that "Noir" WASN'T a genre as much as it's a cinematic style. 

But personally, I'll go further and press the notion that I don't also think there's such a thing as a "noir lifestyle" like Eddie Muller keeps insisting his FATHER lived. :rolleyes: 

Cripes, he's such a schmutz

Sepiatone

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17 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

I agree with you re: the labeling.  I also agree with Joe on noir being subjective rather than a definitive genre.  TCM doesn't even label the films as noir. I'm sure most films possess traits of multiple genres.

It's hilarious to me that someone would be so upset about Muller's "mis-labeling" of a film that they would actually leave the room. Just think about what other trivial things they probably overreact to in their day to day life? 

There used to be a poster on these boards who would flip out in much the same fashion when it came to determining if a movie was noir or not. Insufferable ****. Thankfully he's gone.

I get tired when those kinds of debates start, and try to avoid them at all costs. Just talk about the movie

 

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33 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Forget this obsession with a label.

It's not so much an obsession but an interesting investigation.

I don't think Noir ended with the end of the Hollywood Studios or the demise of the MPPC (Hayes Code). There are many films that fit the bill before the 1940s and many post the studio system. It's just that MPPC sort of put guardrails on the films. One side was sex and taboo subjects the other was the depiction of violence and moral justice. Once the MPPC diminished its control the vehicle called Noir was free to go off the narrow road and wander freely all over the place. The 60s and early 70s had this freewheeling experimentation, I like to call them the Transitional Noirs, by the mid 80s we were recognizing them again as so called Neo Noir.  

Anyway it's good that we are getting back in a "noir" frame of mind for Noir Alley. 😎

 

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27 minutes ago, LawrenceA said:

There used to be a poster on these boards who would flip out in much the same fashion when it came to determining if a movie was noir or not. Insufferable ****. Thankfully he's gone.

I get tired when those kinds of debates start, and try to avoid them at all costs. Just talk about the movie

 

The irony is that this time I started the debate by questioning Harder They Fall's inclusion as part of the genre despite the fact I get bored with those kinds of debates, as well.

Well, that's me, a walking contraction.

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3 minutes ago, TomJH said:

The irony is that this time I started the debate by questioning Harder They Fall's inclusion as part of the genre despite the fact I get bored with those kinds of debates, as well.

Well, that's me, a walking contraction.

A walking contradiction.  How noir of you. 

 

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Flash on right now - University of Oklahoma's Mental Hospital (1953) 19 minute documentary it's opening sequence is quite stylistic and noirish. Directed by Layton Mabrey 😎

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The Harder They Fall is a solid film and Bogie gives a very good performance.   There are some very strong ties to 'noir';  e.g.  actors like Bogie and Janet Sterling have solid noir 'creed'.    There are gangsters and the relationship between the boss (Steiger), one of his main men (a solid Nehemiah Peroff), and Bogie's character has noir elements.

My favor scene is where Bogie makes demands to the agents of the fighters to get these fighters a better take.   This is a very noir scene from a theme perspective but not so much visually.     Edward Andrews is one of these agents and he is very good here.  

Don't miss this last hurrah of Bogie and company as directed by Mark Robson.   

 

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I'm looking forward to The Harder They Fall as well.  I've only seen part of this movie.  I also love boxing movies, so I anticipate enjoying the film. 

It's a pretty hard hitting film, Speedy, based on a novel by Budd Schulberg which was based on the life story heavyweight champion Primo Carnera, a large but fairly mediocre fighter backed by the mob (whether or not Carnera was as naive as his Toro Moreno counterpart in this film I'm not certain).

When the real Carnera finally lost his title (to Max Baer) he took a terrible beating and showed that he had plenty of courage. Baer later visited Carnera in the hospital. They couldn't find a bed big enough for Primo and his feet were sticking out at the end. Baer was a fun loving sort and a real joker and he couldn't resist playing "This little piggy" with Carnera's toes.

By the way Max Baer plays his own counterpart in The Harder They Fall, but his character is portrayed as a vicious man killer in the film, unlike the real life Baer. The irony of this is that Baer actually did administer a vicious beating early in his boxing career to an opponent named Frankie Campbell, who died as a result of it.

Baer was so overcome with grief that Campbell's wife actually consoled him at the hospital, as well as forgiving him. Baer was never the same fighter again, never as aggressive in the ring as he had been with Campbell. He became more of a clowning showman, at times, and was loved by the fight crowd.

Baer once memorably said, "I define fear as standing across the ring from Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early." (Baer only lasted four rounds with Joe).

Baer, who had a playboy reputation, was quite a character, not the thug he later portrayed (in a variation of himself!) in The Harder They Fall. Here's a shot of Baer on the film's set:

94e2f87f6e4bbe831e035b75c46e4e60.jpg

 

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It's been a LONG MONTH. I have NOIR ALLEY withdrawal! Too bad the month ended on a wknd. We have to wait yet ANOTHER week!

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1 hour ago, speedracer5 said:

I'm looking forward to The Harder They Fall as well.  I've only seen part of this movie.  I also love boxing movies, so I anticipate enjoying the film. 

I'm looking forward to getting back to the swing of things on Super Wicked Happy Saturday serial/cartoon/western/jungle picture/Bowery Boys. Whoops, forgot Popeye.

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4 minutes ago, TomJH said:

It's a pretty hard hitting film, Speedy, based on a novel by Budd Schulberg which was based on the life story heavyweight champion Primo Carnera, a large but fairly mediocre fighter backed by the mob (whether or not Carnera was as naive as his Toro Moreno counterpart in this film I'm not certain).

When the real Carnera finally lost his title (to Max Baer) he took a terrible beating and showed that he had plenty of courage. Baer later visited Carnera in the hospital. They couldn't find a bed big enough for Primo and his feet were sticking out at the end. Baer was a fun loving sort and a real joker and he couldn't resist playing "This little piggy" with Carnera's toes.

By the way Max Baer plays his own counterpart in The Harder They Fall, but his character is portrayed as a vicious man killer in the film, unlike the real life Baer. The irony of this is that Baer actually did administer a vicious beating early in his boxing career to an opponent named Frankie Campbell, who died as a result of it.

Baer was so overcome with grief that Campbell's wife actually consoled him at the hospital, as well as forgiving him. Baer was never the same fighter again, never as aggressive in the ring as he had been with Campbell. He became more of a clowning showman, at times, and was loved by the fight crowd.

Baer once memorably said, "I define fear as standing across the ring from Joe Louis and knowing he wants to go home early." (Baer only lasted four rounds with Joe).

Baer, who had a playboy reputation, was quite a character, not the thug he later portrayed (in a variation of himself!) in The Harder They Fall. Here's a shot of Baer on the film's set:

Baer was the father of Jethro from The Beverly Hillbillies right? Ugh Jethro was annoying. 

This sounds like a great film. I think I've seen Primo Carnera in another film.  He was with Myrna Loy. I can't really remember anything else about the film, except for Carnera and Loy. I'll definitely record this when its on. Though I record every Noir Alley, even if I own the film. 

I didn't realize Bogart was so hairy. Yuck. 

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