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Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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13 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I've said here more than once, it's kind of a noir comedy.

Indeed it is...

One of my all-time favorite bogart screen moments:

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In honour of the ladies in THE BIG SLEEP:

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THE BIG SLEEP can also be seen as a celebration of the romance and marriage of Bogie and Baby

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59 minutes ago, TomJH said:

THE BIG SLEEP can also be seen as a celebration of the romance and marriage of Bogie and Baby

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        "BABY? Well why didn't you say so in the FIRST place, Doc?!

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Martha Vickers also went by Martha MacVickar and her role in The Falcon in Mexico is one of my favorite.  Not nearly as appealing as in The Big Sleep, but good.

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8 hours ago, Dargo said:

Okay, lets see here. At last count we have:

Tom and Sepia disappointed that they've never encountered  a cab driver or female book store clerk as hot as Joy Barlow or Dorothy Malone.

MissW disappointed that while working as a book store clerk, no customer she ever encountered was intriguing enough to tempt her close her shop early and, ahem,  party with him.

Cid who's never cared one way or the other about the minutia.

Vautrin who's still looking forward to someday encountering a female cab driver that moonlights into another profession during work hours.

And THEN there's always James, and who'll have the hots for Martha Vickers until the day he goes to his final reward.

(...did I miss anyone here???)

;)

I don't recall mentioning any disappointment in women book store clerks.  But it's true none of the ones I've met were as "hot" as Malone.  And they're divided by those old enough to be my Grandma, and those young enough to be my daughter's best friend.   And then a few that looked like linebackers in drag.  :(

And I'll say Eddie is as entitled to his own opinion as anyone else and say I think THE BIG SLEEP is a "classic" noir.   See?  I can  appoint myself an "expert" just as easily as Eddie Muller can! ;)   

And now, back to our thread, already in progress......

Sepiatone

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23 hours ago, TomJH said:

Thanks to Eddie Muller in his comments today for giving a plug to the performance of Sonia Darrin, as Agnes, the bookstore clerk Jonsey is crazy about, in THE BIG SLEEP. She gives a very solid performance in the film but, incredibly, the actress was unbilled. According to both IMDB and Wiki Darrin, born in 1924, is still alive at 95. Anyone else find it a bit ironic that an unbilled player in the film (with a fair sized role including sharing a couple of dialogue scenes with Bogart) is, possibly, the only living cast member of this famous film today?

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That's Sonia, second from the left behind director Hawks.

According to IMDB, Darrin was only in 12 feature films and only got a screen credit for 2 of them.   The biography shown on her now is different from what I remember from a couple of years ago.  I could have sworn she was active in the American Socialist Party, and not having a screen credit was a matter of choice on her part.  I also thought she was caught up in the HCUA hearings in the early 50's.  That, and the fact that she had 4 kids played a factor in her limited roles, and I agree with others, Sonia was one of the many gems in "The Big Sleep".

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Yes, THE BIG SLEEP certainly did have it's share of attractive females. I think Dorothy Malone's book store clerk is my favorite. What guy wouldn't want to spend a few hours having some "pretty good rye" with her. 

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Why didn't Malone's performance in THE BIG SLEEP alert the studio as to how "hot" the actress could be on screen? Her Warners films of the '40s, excluding this one, did not do much to distinguish her career. Then again, with only a few exceptions, Jack Warner's studio seemed to be one that concentrated more upon the careers of its big male stars.

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4 hours ago, TomJH said:

Why didn't Malone's performance in THE BIG SLEEP alert the studio as to how "hot" the actress could be on screen? Her Warners films of the '40s, excluding this one, did not do much to distinguish her career. Then again, with only a few exceptions, Jack Warner's studio seemed to be one that concentrated more upon the careers of its big male stars.

These "why" questions are often answered by timing and competition.     Note that Bacall was still one of the relatively new-faces WB had under contract and Martha Vickers made a big splash here and was therefore rushed into 3 other films in the next 18 months (these didn't do well so her contract wasn't renewed).      WB had also taken on Alexis Smith who was quickly becoming actress #3 at the WB lot (after Davis and DeHavilland,  pushing Lupino and Ana Sheridan down a notch).      There was also Dolores Moran,  who was signed to a 7 year contact in 1942 (who due to Hawks' rewrites beefed up the Bacall part in To Have and Have Not and thus stole whatever juice Moran had, as well as her career).

 

 

 

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In my limited experience, librarians are usually hotter than book store clerks. Of course there are exceptions.

Most of the used book stores I've been in seem to have  male clerks who are about ten years beyond the usual

retirement age. 

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

These "why" questions are often answered by timing and competition.     Note that Bacall was still one of the relatively new-faces WB had under contract and Martha Vickers made a big splash here and was therefore rushed into 3 other films in the next 18 months (these didn't do well so her contract wasn't renewed).      WB had also taken on Alexis Smith who was quickly becoming actress #3 at the WB lot (after Davis and DeHavilland,  pushing Lupino and Ana Sheridan down a notch).      There was also Dolores Mogan,  who was signed to a 7 year contact in 1942 (who due to Hawks' rewrites beefed up the Bacall part in To Have and Have Not and thus stole whatever juice Mogan had, as well as her career).

 

You of course meant Dolores Moran here, James. And who I always thought actress Morgan Fairchild resembled quite a bit.

(...in fact, I placed a side-by-side comparison of them in the Lookalikes thread a few years back)

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13 hours ago, Dargo said:

You of course meant Dolores Moran here, James. And who I always thought actress Morgan Fairchild resembled quite a bit.

(...in fact, I placed a side-by-side comparison of them in the Lookalikes thread a few years back)

Dolores Moran got a career shaft because of Bogart's affair with Bacall. She was scheduled to have a far larger role in To Have and Have Not (director Hawks had an affair with her after, much to his chagrin, Bacall preferred Bogie to him) but something must have gone wrong with the tryst because Dolores' role in the film got cut back (to make more room for Bacall). As it turned out, the blonde Moran never really got a shot at any part of substance at Warners. To Have and Have Not was her lost opportunity.

Despite the trailer tag line on her for To Have and Have Not, poor Dolores didn't get much of an opportunity to be captivating in that film

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Martha Vickers, as Bacall's thumb sucking n y m p h o sister in The Big Sleep, makes more of an impression than Moran in the earlier film but, even here, you have to wonder if Vickers might not have had more screen time in the film if the studio hadn't been so interested in pushing the career of Mrs. Bogart. At least Vickers had a good part here, though she never got one again from the studio, much the same as Dorothy Malone.

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I had forgotten about Dolores Moran. I just remember when Becall's character asked Bogie "are you trying to guess her weight?" What a great line.

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The Big Night (1951) Never seen this one should be interesting.

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32 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

The Big Night (1951) Never seen this one should be interesting.

Yea,  a United Artist 75 minute film.    Something different that I've haven't seen as well.

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12:00 AM (ET)
B/W - 75 m
 

Synopsis: An emotional teenager takes on the mob when gangsters beat up his father.
DirJoseph Losey CastJohn Barrymore Jr. , Preston Foster , Joan Lorring .

 

LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW:    
 

😧 Joseph Losey. John Barrymore, Jr, Preston Foster, Howland Chamberlain, Joan Lorring, Dorothy Comingore, Howard John.

Brooding account of rebellious teenager Barrymore's emotional flare-up with humanity at large;   well done.

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16 hours ago, mr6666 said:
12:00 AM (ET)
B/W - 75 m
 

Synopsis: An emotional teenager takes on the mob when gangsters beat up his father.
DirJoseph Losey CastJohn Barrymore Jr. , Preston Foster , Joan Lorring .

 

LEONARD MALTIN REVIEW:    
 

😧 Joseph Losey. John Barrymore, Jr, Preston Foster, Howland Chamberlain, Joan Lorring, Dorothy Comingore, Howard John.

Brooding account of rebellious teenager Barrymore's emotional flare-up with humanity at large;   well done.

Not exactly.  A newspaper sports writer canes his father.  Reasons unknown until very end of movie.

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Watched The Big Night.  Not bad, but not great by any means.  As usual Eddie's intro and outro were fairly interesting.  Although he seems to be getting too deep into the HUAC/FBI investigations.

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On 1/6/2020 at 5:07 PM, Vautrin said:

In my limited experience, librarians are usually hotter than book store clerks. Of course there are exceptions.

 

In my experience, the "hotness" of librarians is due to their going through menopause.  ;)

Sepiatone

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2 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

In my experience, the "hotness" of librarians is due to their going through menopause.  ;)

Sepiatone

You guys still mulling over librarians,  bookstore clerks and cab drivers.    Note that The Big Sleep had sexy gals for all three of these professions.

PS:  Tried to find a clip of the blonde librarian in The Big Sleep but the search only brings up the book store scene with Malone. 

 

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2 hours ago, TheCid said:

Watched The Big Night.  Not bad, but not great by any means.  As usual Eddie's intro and outro were fairly interesting.  Although he seems to be getting too deep into the HUAC/FBI investigations.

I wasn't that impressed with THE BIG NIGHT. I guess all of Noir Alley's features aren't going to suit my taste. I did find Eddie's outro about the blacklisting interesting too. 

Hopefully, next week will be more my cup of tea. It's only a couple of weeks before we lose Noir Alley until March to make room for 31 Days of Oscar.

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3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

You guys still mulling over librarians,  bookstore clerks and cab drivers.    Note that The Big Sleep had sexy gals for all three of these professions.

PS:  Tried to find a clip of the blonde librarian in The Big Sleep but the search only brings up the book store scene with Malone. 

 

I know "The Big Sleep" pretty well, and I don't recall any library scenes or any librarians of any description, "hot" or otherwise. Could you please enlighten me as to what scene in "The Big Sleep" shows a library  or even just a librarian?   (The fact that you couldn't find a clip of the scene you think is in this film makes me think it doesn't exist. However, I do not say that I am never wrong. It has been known to happen.)

EDIT:  well, apparently I WAS wrong in this case. (Hey, I said it happens sometimes!  A lot, really.)  I hear there IS a library scene in "The Big Sleep". Perhaps you, james, or someone else here could tell me exactly when the scene occurs and what the context is. I must be getting silly, I just saw the film last week and still do not recall a library scene. But  I believe there is one now. Just inform me as to what part of the film it takes place. Thanks.

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I did not enjoy "The Big Night" much.  On the plus side, it was a film I'd never seen before, and it's always nice to see a movie from that era that I've never seen.  However, I've decided that I don't like "teen angst" type movies, of which it could be argued is a noir sub-genre.  I have another "angsty youth/juvenile delinquent" type film from that era in a noir set- I think it's called "Crime in the Streets", starring John Cassavetes and James Whitmore. I like both those actors, but they could not render this overdone tale of youth gone bad  anything other than what it was,  one of those cliche-ridden hand-wringers about incorrigible teens.

Sorry, that's a digression, but I mention it because it, along with "The Big Night" and numerous other such films, seem typical of a wave of earnest socially conscious "what is the matter with our youth today?" type movies that were being made by the dozen (slight exaggeration) in the '50s.

The most interesting scene in "The Big Night" is the one in which George and his new pal are at that nightclub, where the lovely young singer appears and enchants George. Unfortunately, in the bit which follows, when George meets the singer and talks to her, I could not hear what he was saying, due to the somewhat poor sound quality of the film. I don't know what he said after he told her he thought she was a wonderful singer and very beautiful, but whatever it was, it changed the feeling between the two of them. I'm wondering if he made some reference to the fact that she was black. I suspect so, but will never know unless I watch the movie again, since I could not hear what he said at that moment. If anyone knows, please tell me here.  It was one of the few scenes in the film that I liked.

I thought I recognized Dorothy Comingore, but wouldn't have been able to place her as the hapless Susan Alexander from "Citizen Kane", so I'm glad Eddie mentioned that. Sounds like William Randolph Hearst was quite vindictive, arranging for her career to be ruined after Kane. He didn't seem to go after any of the male actors that way.

One thing I did like about "The Big Night" was the visuals. Satisfyingly dark and noirish, especially poor George's confused rambles in the afterhours city streets.

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53 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

I did not enjoy "The Big Night" much.  On the plus side, it was a film I'd never seen before, and it's always nice to see a movie from that era that I've never seen.  However, I've decided that I don't like "teen angst" type movies, of which it could be argued is a noir sub-genre.  I have another "angsty youth/juvenile delinquent" type film from that era in a noir set- I think it's called "Crime in the Streets", starring John Cassavetes and James Whitmore. I like both those actors, but they could not render this overdone tale of youth gone bad  anything other than what it was,  one of those cliche-ridden hand-wringers about incorrigible teens.

Sorry, that's a digression, but I mention it because it, along with "The Big Night" and numerous other such films, seem typical of a wave of earnest socially conscious "what is the matter with our youth today?" type movies that were being made by the dozen (slight exaggeration) in the '50s.

The most interesting scene in "The Big Night" is the one in which George and his new pal are at that nightclub, where the lovely young singer appears and enchants George. Unfortunately, in the bit which follows, when George meets the singer and talks to her, I could not hear what he was saying, due to the somewhat poor sound quality of the film. I don't know what he said after he told her he thought she was a wonderful singer and very beautiful, but whatever it was, it changed the feeling between the two of them. I'm wondering if he made some reference to the fact that she was black. I suspect so, but will never know unless I watch the movie again, since I could not hear what he said at that moment. If anyone knows, please tell me here.  It was one of the few scenes in the film that I liked.

I thought I recognized Dorothy Comingore, but wouldn't have been able to place her as the hapless Susan Alexander from "Citizen Kane", so I'm glad Eddie mentioned that. Sounds like William Randolph Hearst was quite vindictive, arranging for her career to be ruined after Kane. He didn't seem to go after any of the male actors that way.

One thing I did like about "The Big Night" was the visuals. Satisfyingly dark and noirish, especially poor George's confused rambles in the afterhours city streets.

I think it was something like: "You are very beautiful even if you are not.... "and he did not finish, but the implication was that he was going to say white.  He did apologize for what it is worth.

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