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Barton_Keyes

Noir Alley

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16 minutes ago, laffite said:

Not a bad point about the gravitas for the character, but what about the actor? Montgomery fails miserably. Gagin comes across as someone's goon, he kind of reminds me of rich man's Elisha Cooke Jr, who I like very much but he played those officious over-stylized and phony tough guys that are usually handled by smarter, cooler guys. Montgomery just looked out of his element (although Cooke Jr would not have worked here, of course). It's clear that he might have come across better if he had played to his usual cool, but that would not be Gagin. I just felt that he was not able to dumb down his performance to be what Gagin was supposed to be. ... Not sure what the correct understanding of Pila is, she comes across a sort of guardian angel type. I didn't necessarily see her as falling for Gagin, at least in any conventional way. She was almost other worldly in a sense, as you suggest. Her payoff seems to be that she has a wonderful story to tell ... Thomas Gomez is splendid and deserving of the nomination he received. I don't know Andrea King, she was great. A Director's dream for any high-born ultra-sophisticated beyotch type, or any role for a high classed looker. She did some movies in the 40s but then turned practically exclusively to TV when that age began (I looked her up).

Good points also made here I'd say, laffite.

And now after reading YOUR take on this, ya know who I'm now envisioning could've also played Gagin and done very good service to the part, and although the actor I'm thinking of wouldn't come on the acting scene until just a few years later?

This guy...

hqdefault.jpg

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I was wondering why a street smart guy like Montgomery's character would go out into a dark alley

with the check still on his person. Really dumb move. Of course it keeps the plot going. Then Hugo

gives out with a pitch perfect reading of the disillusioned WW II vet theme that is made so much of in

film noir theory. He just lays it all out, though he lets it drop there. Wanda Hendrix was good as Pila. 

She's a bit other worldy and untutored for much of the picture, though at the conclusion she turns

into a regular kid telling her friends about her adventure with the stranger. At the start of the flick

Montgomery is rather dismissive of the locals. Can you be an ugly American without leaving the

U.S. ?

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23 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I was wondering why a street smart guy like Montgomery's character would go out into a dark alley

with the check still on his person. Really dumb move. Of course it keeps the plot going. Then Hugo

gives out with a pitch perfect reading of the disillusioned WW II vet theme that is made so much of in

film noir theory. He just lays it all out, though he lets it drop there. Wanda Hendrix was good as Pila. 

She's a bit other worldy and untutored for much of the picture, though at the conclusion she turns

into a regular kid telling her friends about her adventure with the stranger. At the start of the flick

Montgomery is rather dismissive of the locals. Can you be an ugly American without leaving the

U.S. ?

Well Vautrin, considering, believe it or not, that there is a sizable  percent of Americans who don't know that New Mexico is actually part of the U.S., I'd say this might be a harder question to answer than you'd think!  ;)

(...considering this variable, anyway)

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3 hours ago, Dargo said:

Well Vautrin, considering, believe it or not, that there is a sizable  percent of Americans who don't know that New Mexico is actually part of the U.S., I'd say this might be a harder question to answer than you'd think!  ;)

(...considering this variable, anyway)

Yeah, these kids with their long hair and crazy music.

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5 hours ago, Dargo said:

Good points also made here I'd say, laffite.

And now after reading YOUR take on this, ya know who I'm now envisioning could've also played Gagin and done very good service to the part, and although the actor I'm thinking of wouldn't come on the acting scene until just a few years later?

This guy...

hqdefault.jpg

He could be tough like Gagin is supposed to be, but he might be too intimidating. Hugo might be loathe to try to push him around. Palance has a surprisingly gentle voice but can look ferocious and act ferocious. Gagin should be played by someone who tries to look like smooth operator but who is not. And there has to be an air of sheer inability to get things absolutely right. He should look vulnerable to the viewer. Someone who can look tough but may not be. A sort of film noir Clouseau. A stumble bum. No? Perhaps so, then. I don't know. Maybe I go to far. One thing that bothered me about Montgomery is that he looked like a younger Bill O'Reilly. Yike! And did this take place in New Mexico? San Pablo looked like a fully genuine Mexican town to me.

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19 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

And Lloyd Nolan LOOKS like Bugs Bunny.

(I've always thought so)

It's interesting that a bit of a discussion about Lloyd Nolan has come up, because, watching Ride the Pink Horse yesterday, I was sure it was Lloyd Nolan who was the valet who answered the door to Robert Young    - I mean Montgomery -  and got knocked out by him.  I looked up the actor, turns out it's someone called Richard Gaines, someone, I must confess, I'm not that familar with.  But to me, he looks exactly like Lloyd Nolan !  I thought that was why Lloyd had been brought up on the thread here.

Take a look:

Lloyd Nolan:

image.jpeg.913ff5532d31a3e88a089cef7376b889.jpeg

 

Richard Gaines

image.jpeg.07996a0dbdbadd7105700de3aadbae30.jpeg

 

edit:  eek ! speaking of mixing up actor look-alikes, I always, always confuse those two Roberts:  Montgomery and Young.  I think they look so much alike, not only were they about the same age, but their hair, their general demeanour, and especially their faces.  Of course, it was Robert Montgomery who was in Ride the Pink Horse,   NOT  Robert Young  (but I still say they're like twins separated at birth...)

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I'd say they at least look close enough to be brothers.  And going by the posted photos, it's obvious they go to the same barber.  ;) 

Sepiatone

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I thought I'd never seen Ride the Pink Horse, but it seems I did. But I only remembered the beginning and the ending. I guess it didnt make much of an impression on me. As for this time, it was ok. Started out well, but sagged towards the end.  SPOILERS.

 

Hard to believe Montgomery could be so "damaged" at the end, yet survive. Yeah, right! Seemed like he was channeling Marlowe from Lady in the Lake. Same exact voice and delivery. Not something I'd watch again but glad I got to see it this time. Nothing much happens and slow. What was that stuff with the gum supposed to mean? I didn't get that.

 

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4 hours ago, Hibi said:

Hard to believe Montgomery could be so "damaged" at the end, yet survive. Yeah, right! Seemed like he was channeling Marlowe from Lady in the Lake. Same exact voice and delivery. Not something I'd watch again but glad I got to see it this time. Nothing much happens and slow. What was that stuff with the gum supposed to mean? I didn't get that.

The gum thing was part of that opening three minute single take and they may have needed to give him something to do to generate the duration. It certainly didn't seem a very safe thing to do. The gum and key was too visible. Otherwise, he proved not to seem the type to take such precautions. 

And your right about the damage. He actually got stabbed in the back ... and survived. He had to tell Pila, "Pull the knife out, will ya." That was almost funny.

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She bandaged him up and he was as good as new! I expected him to die in the end due to that, but he recovered quickly! :D

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He was one lucky dude throughout. Another kind of take on "the kindness of strangers."

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6 minutes ago, laffite said:

He was one lucky dude throughout. Another kind of take on "the kindness of strangers."

The charm worked, I guess.....

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On 3/9/2020 at 10:58 AM, misswonderly3 said:

It's interesting that a bit of a discussion about Lloyd Nolan has come up, because, watching Ride the Pink Horse yesterday, I was sure it was Lloyd Nolan who was the valet who answered the door to Robert Young    - I mean Montgomery -  and got knocked out by him.  I looked up the actor, turns out it's someone called Richard Gaines, someone, I must confess, I'm not that familar with.  But to me, he looks exactly like Lloyd Nolan !  I thought that was why Lloyd had been brought up on the thread here.

Take a look:

Lloyd Nolan:

image.jpeg.913ff5532d31a3e88a089cef7376b889.jpeg

 

Richard Gaines

image.jpeg.07996a0dbdbadd7105700de3aadbae30.jpeg

 

edit:  eek ! speaking of mixing up actor look-alikes, I always, always confuse those two Roberts:  Montgomery and Young.  I think they look so much alike, not only were they about the same age, but their hair, their general demeanour, and especially their faces.  Of course, it was Robert Montgomery who was in Ride the Pink Horse,   NOT  Robert Young  (but I still say they're like twins separated at birth...)

Ha!  I never remember Richard Gaines' name but can always identify him in any movie as Barton Keyes' boss with that unusual (Southern?) accent  (who never read an actuarial table in his life) from DOUBLE INDEMNITY.   

I was watching ABANDON SHIP! yesterday (had never seen it.  Was on the edge of my seat.  Wow, Tyrone Power expresses emotion!! Whoda thunk it?? "Negative! Negative!") and thought for a fleeting moment that one of those unfortunate people looked an awful lot like Lloyd Nolan.  (I missed the first ten minutes of this film so don't know if he was featured pre-shipwreck, not messily sea-tossed so I could make a positive i.d.)  Turned out it actually WAS Lloyd Nolan!  Powerful performance.

Just speaking for myself of course I don't see a resemblance between Young and Montgomery.   Young has sharpish features to me which include thin lips) whereas Montgomery sports a "softer" look and thicker lips.  Nothing "babyish" about Young's face -- he could never get away with playing someone like Danny in NIGHT MUST FALL, even with Young's pleasant screen persona. 

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On 3/8/2020 at 10:14 PM, Vautrin said:

 Wanda Hendrix was good as Pila. 

She's a bit other worldy and untutored for much of the picture, though at the conclusion she turns

into a regular kid telling her friends about her adventure with the stranger. At the start of the flick

 

Great point.  This was kind of a disconnect for me but after the movie was over I thought that perhaps she was "putting it on" for her peers so they'd continue to just think of her as that regular kid, when in reality she was always a mystical, set-apart person who had to hide that "specialness".   Loved Wanda's performance.

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Richard Gaines was married to Brenda Marshall, before she married William Holden.

He's much like Fred Clark and Leon Ames, he pops up everywhere.  I usually recognize his voice before anything else. 

Gaines also plays Jean Arthur's fiance, Charles J. Pendergast, in The More the Merrier.  I think he wears a bad toupee in that film. He's also in The Enchanted Cottage. I think he's Robert Young's stepfather in that film. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Richard Gaines was married to Brenda Marshall, before she married William Holden.

Uh-huh, and thus the very reason she wasn't introduced as "Mrs. Richard Gaines" in that Hollywood wives fashion show episode in that sitcom you love so much, speedy!  ;)

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31 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Richard Gaines was married to Brenda Marshall, before she married William Holden.

 

 

 

To paraphrase Robert Walker's Bruno, quite an upgrade (looks-wise).

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15 minutes ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

To paraphrase Robert Walker's Bruno, quite an upgrade (looks-wise).

Holden came to a similar conclusion with Audrey Hepburn and Capucine.

(but hey,  Holden and Marshall did have a 30 year marriage,   resulting in two sons).

 

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For those who love the visual look of archetypal noir, here are a few mouth watering shots. Can you identify the films they came from? I'm not certain myself of a couple of them.

The+Killers+1946+3.jpg

Dxu9Po_WsAAaqxD.jpg

36fd23e023538b546728bc4139a472cc.jpg

oE18YS0dDz2dzLlEGRoogiBxsJFsYnUJqSlQ7gQi

the-third-man-1.jpg

8f998cb4e1ccba2ec7cb31506073d780.jpg

touchofevilquinlan.jpg

dVkxRM4.jpg

11.-Murder-My-Sweet-2.png

maxresdefault.jpg

ece6524367b91d031ae9af93a010ca57.jpg

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1. The Killers 

2. ?

3. Dorothy McGuire - The Spiral Staircase

4. The Third Man

5. Maybe The Third Man again?

6. Joan Bennett - maybe Scarlett Street ( I don't remember that shot)

7. Orson in Touch of Evil

8. Betty Grable - I Wake Up Screaming

9. Murder My Sweet

10. Charles MacGraw in T-Men

11. ?

???????????

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20 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

1. The Killers 

2. ?

3. Dorothy McGuire - The Spiral Staircase

4. The Third Man

5. Maybe The Third Man again?

6. Joan Bennett - maybe Scarlett Street ( I don't remember that shot)

7. Orson in Touch of Evil

8. Betty Grable - I Wake Up Screaming

9. Murder My Sweet

10. Charles MacGraw in T-Men

11. ?

???????????

You know your noirs, lavenderblue. I'm not certain about the second one or the last one either. That last one is a beautiful composition but I'm wondering if it might be a still pose, rather than actually coming from a film. Maybe someone here recognizes it, however.

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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Holden came to a similar conclusion with Audrey Hepburn and Capucine.

(but hey,  Holden and Marshall did have a 30 year marriage,   resulting in two sons).

I don't think Holden and Marshall spent the entire 30 years together however.  I think the separation happened at least 10 years prior, if not earlier, it seems it just took them awhile to divorce.

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28 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

 

4. The Third Man

5. Maybe The Third Man again?

 

Well then, wouldn't that be The Fourth Man then, lavender?!

(...sorry, I have no idea what this meant either)  ;)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Uh-huh, and thus the very reason she wasn't introduced as "Mrs. Richard Gaines" in that Hollywood wives fashion show episode in that sitcom you love so much, speedy!  ;)

Lol. Brenda Marshall wasn't much of an actress.  She's very wooden in her films with Flynn.  And against Flynn's charisma, her woodenness is even more apparent.  If only Olivia de Havilland hadn't turned down The Sea Hawk, I think she would have been much better in the part. Marshall is a pretty face without much else.

For years, I only knew of Marshall as "Mrs. William Holden," I had no idea that she was actually an actress, or even what her first name was. Brenda Marshall isn't even her real name. Her real name is Ardis or something  like that. 

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I did a Google Image Search for the second photo and it's also from The Killers

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