Jump to content
 
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Come on Cid your second to last sentence is a hoot;     an author's mind-view portrayal of his charter is 100% "on-target" by default.    Probably knew?????    Please don't take this as harsh criticism but instead find the humor in even implying an author (or songwriter,  or actor,,,,  any creative person),  doesn't know in their mind-view what they are trying to portray.         (now how successful a creative person is at putting over their mind-view portrayal to an audience is a much different ball of wax).

Also,   I never view the Hayden cop in Crime Wave as mean/evil.      Instead he was situational:   he would use meanness and harsh techniques to try to trap someone to get information but I didn't believe it was the core of his persona as a detective.     E.g.   when they bring in all the low life right after the cop killing  and there is the guy that is an informer that says that he is willing to help but,,,; come on guys,    having the police pick me up so openly,    you're going to get me harmed.     He then wonders if he can go back to work.     Of course Hayden doesn't apologize but he does let the informer go back to work and tells the cop who picked him up that he made a mistake.    I.e. there was  understanding and compassion there towards the informer's situation.   This scene takes places right after it is confirmed that the hoods are the escaped prisoners.        Thus NO need for harsh techniques anymore (as it relates to all the low life they had brought in for questioning).      I.e. situational techniques not an indication of a persona.

 PS:  having a job and working was a sub-theme used throughout the entire film.        It comes up in about 5 or 6 different scenes between different people.    Of course there is Lacey having to keep his job,    his wife and her job (and Hayden allowing her to go back after taking Lacey to jail),    the hoods and how they mock work,   the veterinarian and the fact he was a doctor of humans but now can only works on animals (Hayden and the vet talk about his past work),     that informer,   and the ending where the detective sum up life for working class stiffs like Lacey and his wife.    

 

Exactly the example I was going to also bring up about Hayden's character not being inherently mean or evil, and after Cid brought up the thought that his letting Lavey and his wife go free seemed incongruous to his character.

I especially took note while watching the film this time that Hayden was indeed a tough and somewhat cynical cop but was never really cruel. His letting them go of course was all predicated upon his finding the note which Lavey left in his medicine cabinet and which would tip off the bank job, and which isn't revealed to the audience until that final scene, and done so I would suppose to add a little more suspense and uncertainty to the final car chase sequence.

And re Hank Worden, yeah, for a guy with a ton of movie acting experience up to that time (his IMDb filmography page lists over 130 roles before this film was shot) his line readings in that scene were pretty awful and came across to me as almost some non-pro De Toth might've found at that airport the day of shooting, and asked him if he'd like to be in a movie.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

To me, Hank Worden sounded exactly the same in The Searchers as Mose Harper. In fact I laughed when I saw him and when he started talking I said hey Mose .His voice and line delivery was the same ONLY it worked in The Searchers, not in Crime Wave. I did not think Hayden's character was evil. He was a tough cop doing his job. In his mind he was dealing with hardened criminals and being a nice guy wasn't going to get the job done. What bothered me was that I thought Hayden should have had Hessler ( the vet) backed up when he forced him to go to Lacey's apartment and back up when Hessler got back to his store/home. He should have had him followed. I liked Crime Wave, I've always liked Gene Nelson so much, especially his wonderful dancing and athletic ability.  He was convincing as Lacey in this film and wish he had done more serious films. He turned to directing tv after his film career. Talented, handsome man.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

What bothered me was that I thought Hayden should have had Hessler ( the vet) backed up when he forced him to go to Lacey's apartment and back up when Hessler got back to his store/home. He should have had him followed.

I wondered about this part of the story line as well and here is my take:      The detective really believed that hoods were in Mexico when he went to talk to Hessler.   The cops had linked that San Diego hold-up  (which is south of L.A. and next to the Mexico border),   to the escaped prisoners.      The detective wasn't trying to trap these hoods but instead Lacey for helping the assumed-now-gone hoods.    While the detective believed Lacey wasn't "clean" he didn't believe he was capable of murder.      Therefore in the detective's mind Hessler didn't need any protection from Lacey.     (or if he felt Hessler needed some protection he didn't care too much because,   hey,  Hessler made his own bed).    

I didn't like that Hessler had to get bumped off.     He was a sad figure and willing to break the law for a buck,   but he was a noir criminal that the audience could sympathize with.    His care and love for animals (especially his comment about how humans just abandon old dogs),   was done to make us feel towards him and I know I did.

      

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I knew someone would point out the San Diego hold-up made Hayden believe they weren't at Lacey's and were gone. that was the logic that Doc used so that they could go to Lacey's safely. I think Hayden should have taken extra precaution anyway, for a smart guy, it was a blunder that bothered me. As far as Hessler goes, yes, he became a  sympathetic  character because of his love and care for the animals.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Come on Cid your second to last sentence is a hoot;     an author's mind-view portrayal of his charter is 100% "on-target" by default.    Probably knew?????    Please don't take this as harsh criticism but instead find the humor in even implying an author (or songwriter,  or actor,,,,  any creative person),  doesn't know in their mind-view what they are trying to portray.         (now how successful a creative person is at putting over their mind-view portrayal to an audience is a much different ball of wax).

"Of course Elroy probably knew what he was trying to portray in the book, but I haven't read it.  Therefore not sure what the Bud White character was like in his book."

As I stated, maybe not to your satisfaction, was that Elroy was portraying a certain character, but maybe the readers would not perceive it the same as he meant it.  As I said, I never read the book, so I don't know.

I am sure every actor, author, musician, etc.  believes they are creating a remarkable performance or creation every time they do something.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, lavenderblue19 said:

Yes, I knew someone would point out the San Diego hold-up made Hayden believe they weren't at Lacey's and were gone. that was the logic that Doc used so that they could go to Lacey's safely. I think Hayden should have taken extra precaution anyway, for a smart guy, it was a blunder that bothered me. As far as Hessler goes, yes, he became a  sympathetic  character because of his love and care for the animals.

 

If I remember correctly, they held up a business on the road to San Diego, not necessarily in San Diego.

  • Confused 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, lavenderblue19 said:

Ok, james and I stated that not your liking, are happy now ? LOL

Sorry, but I have no idea what your are talking about.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, jamesjazzguitar said:

 

One of the few songs by "one note Willie" that I actually like and I am a Country fan.  Johnny Cash is my favorite singer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

CRIME WAVE was well done. As Eddie said, it was a pretty simple story. I had not seen it and I was surprised by the ending. I worried that Lacey would meet the same fate as Jeff Bailey from OUT OF THE PAST.  Most noirs don't have happy endings.  Also, I had forgotten about Phyllis Kirk being in the THIN MAN TV series with Peter Lawford. I'd love to see some of those again.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Pretty good, pretty forgettable. It's basically the same old cons on the loose/heist movie, better than average,

with some good location filming to add grit. I thought it was kind of dumb to let the wounded guy drive away

in the car. Why not shove him down in the back seat, take off with a healthy driver and head the hell out of

town and later stop for some medical attention at the always handy doctor who lost his medical license because

he was an alkie or a careless abortionist. But noooo, because Doc Penny is the "brains" of the gang. Just because

he uses a cigaret holder doesn't make him any smarter. I'm glad these dumb losers got their's at the end. They

deserved it. And I'm happy that Lacey got through this relatively unscathed. The innocent bystander often meets

a more deadly fate in these types of movies. Hayden was just your usual nasty cop, the kind who enjoys stomping

people just for the fun of it and knowing he can do so without much chance of a reprimand. I got a kick at the

end of the movie when he tells Lacey if he gets in trouble again to call him. Who the hell would call a jackass

like Hayden for help?

Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

I got a kick at the

end of the movie when he tells Lacey if he gets in trouble again to call him. Who the hell would call a jackass

like Hayden for help?

I view this from a very different angle;    Lacey was just as cynical of cops as the Lt. Sims was of ex-cons based on their life experiences.  

Lacey's wife advised him to call the police but he doesn't because he doesn't trust them.    Lt. Sims mentions more than once the 2 years Lacey has been out and "clean".     That he married a good-gal and that he had a good job at a profession he was good at.    These things were noted to illustrate that the detective was aware Lacey wasn't just another typical hood,   BUT,   Sims being jaded just couldn't fully accept that.      The line by the detective at the end was admission that he now got-it;    Lacey could trust him and he would trust Lacey.

  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I view this from a very different angle;    Lacey was just as cynical of cops as the Lt. Sims was of ex-cons based on their life experiences.  

Lacey's wife advised him to call the police but he doesn't because he doesn't trust them.    Lt. Sims mentions more than once the 2 years Lacey has been out and "clean".     That he married a good-gal and that he had a good job at a profession he was good at.    These things were noted to illustrate that the detective was aware Lacey wasn't just another typical hood,   BUT,   Sims being jaded just couldn't fully accept that.      The line by the detective at the end was admission that he now got-it;    Lacey could trust him and he would trust Lacey.

  

But an ex-con doesn't have the legal power a cop has to screw up your life. Sims couldn't figure out until the end

that Lacey was acting under duress. If someone put me through the wringer like Sims did to Lacey I sure as hell

wouldn't call him for help. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I thought it was kind of dumb to let the wounded guy drive away

in the car. Why not shove him down in the back seat, take off with a healthy driver and head the hell out of

town and later stop for some medical attention at the always handy doctor who lost his medical license because

he was an alkie or a careless abortionist. But noooo, because Doc Penny is the "brains" of the gang. Just because

he uses a cigaret holder doesn't make him any smarter.

What struck me as really odd is that he shoots the cop in the chest at point blank range but he doesn't immediately die.

Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Vautrin said:

 Just because he uses a cigarette holder doesn't make him any smarter.

SURE it does!  :D 

Just like holding your cigarette underhand somehow  is supposed to make one more sinister.  ;)   But too only if you "alzo" speak "wiss zee German AGZENT"!  :D 

Sepiatone

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/29/2020 at 10:47 AM, cigarjoe said:

I've noticed this every time I've watched Crime Wave, notice how Hank Worden is probably the only flaw in the entire film. His reading of his line about  Steve Lacey being the "best A&E Mechanic" and ends with  "married to a motor" sounds like he's having trouble reading it off a cue card. What was Hank  Worden's story?

 

On 3/29/2020 at 3:38 PM, lavenderblue19 said:

To me, Hank Worden sounded exactly the same in The Searchers as Mose Harper. In fact I laughed when I saw him and when he started talking I said hey Mose .His voice and line delivery was the same ONLY it worked in The Searchers, not in Crime Wave. ....

Yes, like you and Joe,  I noticed the oddness of Hank Worden's scene;  he only had one brief scene, and maybe three lines, yet he managed in those very few moments to  recreate his "Mose" character from The Searchers.

Except I shouldn't say "recreate", because Crime Wave was made two years before The Searchers was.  I think Mr. Worden liked that persona he'd created, the persona of a "simple" individual,  or, as they might have said in The Searchers, a little "simple-minded".  But clearly Hank Worden was NOT at all "simple", I looked him up, he had an engineering degree.  So why he liked to always talk that way  ("simple" sounding) is hard to understand.    His character in Crime Wave would definitely not have been simple, as he was Steve's boss, and the manager of an airplane repair plant.

Anyway, doesn't matter, I know.  I guess it's just that it was a tiny bit distracting, and, like you , as soon as he opened his mouth, I had to laugh and go  "Hey, it's Mose !" 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, misswonderly3 said:

 

Anyway, doesn't matter, I know.  I guess it's just that it was a tiny bit distracting, and, like you , as soon as he opened his mouth, I had to laugh and go  "Hey, it's Mose !" 

YUP, as Mose would probably say. We probably both  laughed and said Hey, Mose at the same time MissW  LOL. Glad you agree with me  :)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/29/2020 at 1:15 PM, jamesjazzguitar said:

 

......  I never viewed the Hayden cop in Crime Wave as mean/evil.      Instead he was situational:   he would use meanness and harsh techniques to try to trap someone to get information but I didn't believe it was the core of his persona as a detective.     E.g.   when they bring in all the low life characters right after the cop killing  and there is the guy that is an informer that says that he is willing to help but,,,; come on guys,    having the police pick me up so openly,    you're going to get me harmed.     He then wonders if he can go back to work.     Of course Hayden doesn't apologize but he does let the informer go back to work and tells the cop who picked him up that he made a mistake.    I.e. there was  understanding and compassion there towards the informer's situation.   This scene takes places right after it is confirmed that the hoods are the escaped prisoners.        Thus NO need for harsh techniques anymore (as it relates to all the low life characters they had brought in for questioning).      I.e. situational techniques not an indication of a persona.

 

 

On 3/29/2020 at 2:47 PM, Dargo said:

Exactly the example I was going to also bring up about Hayden's character not being inherently mean or evil, and after Cid brought up the thought that his letting Lavey and his wife go free seemed incongruous to his character.

I especially took note while watching the film this time that Hayden was indeed a tough and somewhat cynical cop but was never really cruel. His letting them go of course was all predicated upon his finding the note which Lavey left in his medicine cabinet and which would tip off the bank job, and which isn't revealed to the audience until that final scene, and done so I would suppose to add a little more suspense and uncertainty to the final car chase sequence.

 

 

On 3/29/2020 at 3:38 PM, lavenderblue19 said:

..... I did not think Hayden's character was evil. He was a tough cop doing his job. In his mind he was dealing with hardened criminals and being a nice guy wasn't going to get the job done. What bothered me was that I thought Hayden should have had Hessler ( the vet) backed up when he forced him to go to Lacey's apartment and back up when Hessler got back to his store/home. He should have had him followed. I liked Crime Wave, I've always liked Gene Nelson so much, especially his wonderful dancing and athletic ability.  He was convincing as Lacey in this film and wish he had done more serious films. He turned to directing tv after his film career. Talented, handsome man.

I agree with all of the above posters' comments, which are all to the effect of saying that Sims  (Hayden's character) was NOT "mean", and certainly not "evil".

One of the main reasons I like film noir is the grey area of people's characters.  Other types of films do this too, of course, but noir in particular shows that most people are neither "good"  nor "bad", but an uneasy blend of the two  (as are we all in real life).  As the above posters have noted,  Sims is not a nasty person; what he IS, is a man who's seen a lot of "low-life" and criminal behaviour throughout his career as a police detective,  and it's made him cynical and, at least on the surface, hard.   Similar to Robert Ryan's character in On Dangerous Ground.

Sims is just tired of all the unreliable ex-crooks he's seen, many of whom probably have fallen back to their law-breaking ways.  But, as james pointed out, he's not entirely mean. That  "stool pigeon" the cops have pulled in, who appeals to Sims to let him go, he doesn't want to be ostracized by his neighbours or lose his job, has a legitimate point, which is recognized by Sims, who tells the  police to let the guy go.

I do think Sims kind of messes with Steve and Ellen when he finds them at the crooks' hide-out.  He makes them think he's arresting them, when in fact he just drops them off at their bus stop  (hey, why doesn't he just drive them all the way home?)  and only at the very end does he reveal that he saw Steve's note on the medicine cabinet mirror.  But I suspect this bit is more to fool the audience than the confused young couple.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Sukhov said:

What struck me as really odd is that he shoots the cop in the chest at point blank range but he doesn't immediately die.

Hollywood Bullets. Didn't he shoot the cop a second time just to make sure? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Sepiatone said:

SURE it does!  :D 

Just like holding your cigarette underhand somehow  is supposed to make one more sinister.  ;)   But too only if you "alzo" speak "wiss zee German AGZENT"!  :D 

Sepiatone

The Germans can usually pull if off with or without the cig holder. Whenever I hear some guy is the "brains" of the

outfit, I know the outfit will probably be in trouble.

 

Happened to see Hank Worden playing a small part on Green Acres last night. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/24/2020 at 2:21 AM, nakano said:

I kept silent about this,but it is annoying me also,many months ago i read somewhere she was taking lessons to lose her accent..  obviously it is not working...

I wonder why she would do that?  Take lessons to lose her accent, I mean.  I like Australian accents, I like Alicia Malone, accent and all, and I hope she continues being one of TCM's hosts.

...I'm actually wondering if maybe her accent doesn't sound like most Australians' because she's been trying to lose it.  Don't try to lose your accent, Alicia, in fact, try to keep it !

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

More International Noir...

Touchez Pas Au Grisbi (1954)  from me a 9.75/10 but see below...

Touchez Pas au Grisbi Poster

To quote Moorman " Another French masterpiece.  A solid 10 out of 10. Jean Gabin is fantastic.  I really loved this film.  The moral code, the friendship, everything about this film was top notch and on point.  The character studies and just everything, again, I say this was a 10 out of 10."

Un Témoin Dans La Ville (1959) - 10/10

Un témoin dans la ville Poster

Directed by Edouard Molinaro starring Lino Ventura.

Pierre Verdier kills his mistress Jeanne Ancelin by throwing her off a train. He claims that it was an accident. Her husband, Ancelin (Ventura), gets revenge on Verdier who has money enough to get acquitted by justice. Ancelin waits for him at his his house and hangs him making it look like suicide.

He leaves the place but is seen by a cab driver that Verdier had called, Now  But unfortunately for him, Lambert, a taxi driver has witnessed him. Ancelin has no option but to bump off the driver. This was a nice surprise. Lots of cat and mouse type action on the night streets of Paris. A great Film Noir 10/10.
 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/30/2020 at 8:59 PM, misswonderly3 said:

I wonder why she would do that?  Take lessons to lose her accent, I mean.  I like Australian accents, I like Alicia Malone, accent and all, and I hope she continues being one of TCM's hosts.

...I'm actually wondering if maybe her accent doesn't sound like most Australians' because she's been trying to lose it.  Don't try to lose your accent, Alicia, in fact, try to keep it !

Yea,  this is odd,  at best.      I always use,  my raised in Italy wife as a guide;     E.g.  she has problems with strong English speaking accents,  especially Welsh,   Cockney,   and Irish.    

We have watched a few movies on TCM where she will say "I know their speaking English,  but I can't understand them".        

When Malone first came on I saw some complaints at this forum about  her accent (typically by one-time-trolls),    so I asked my wife.    She said she had no problem with understanding Malone.       I could see someone getting guidance with how to pronounce certain vowels or when two are used together (especially if the vowels sounds in one native language are different like they are for Italian verses English),    but that isn't really related to one's accent.

Malone,   please keep that accent.    It is part of your persona and one I find charming.     

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

I wonder why she would do that?  Take lessons to lose her accent, I mean.  I like Australian accents, I like Alicia Malone, accent and all, and I hope she continues being one of TCM's hosts.

...I'm actually wondering if maybe her accent doesn't sound like most Australians' because she's been trying to lose it.  Don't try to lose your accent, Alicia, in fact, try to keep it !

I'm born and raised near Toronto. One time when I was in Vegas a store owner asked me if I was from Australia because of my accent. I had to explain to him that I had no accent (which was more than I could say for him).

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
© 2020 Turner Classic Movies Inc. A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Cookie Settings
×
×
  • Create New...