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On 5/9/2020 at 7:29 AM, LornaHansonForbes said:

they should change their order of two salami sandwiches with coffee to two cheese sandwiches with coffee.

Perhaps it was a  warning that the salami had sinister beginnings.

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2 hours ago, Arteesto said:

Perhaps it was a  warning that the salami had sinister beginnings.

Doesn’t all salami?

(and sausage for that matter!)

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I love salami.....

But never mind about that.

I was trying to get through something called THE SECOND WOMAN (never heard of it before) which unceremoniously popped up on one of my local public broadcasting channels here in Boca.   It's the third airing this week and I've fallen asleep halfway through each time.    I mean, Robert Young and Betsy Drake -- scintillating!   

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19 minutes ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

I love salami.....

But never mind about that.

I was trying to get through something called THE SECOND WOMAN (never heard of it before) which unceremoniously popped up on one of my local public broadcasting channels here in Boca.   It's the third airing this week and I've fallen asleep halfway through each time.    I mean, Robert Young and Betsy Drake -- scintillating!   

Ugh, BETSY DRAKE is THE WORST!

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1 hour ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

Ugh, BETSY DRAKE is THE WORST!

I know, right?   No wonder I kept falling asleep!

But guess what?  I found out THE SECOND WOMAN was on YouTube.  Curiosity (and an **** personality) had me watching to the bitter end.  (I also armed myself beforehand with a large cup of strong coffee)  They say patience is a virtue and this quality is definitely needed here.   Story combines elements of REBECCA, with some GASLIGHT thrown in for good measure.   The pleasant, soothing, vanilla flavor of Robert Young works well in certain roles -- I'm thinking of CLAUDIA in particular -- but here he's just uninvolvingly bland.   Even a so-called twist ending doesn't help.   

 

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OK,  seen it before here is what I wrote about it back in 2011 when I first did.

The Crimson Kimono (1959) director Sam Fuller, with Victoria Shaw, Glenn Corbett, James Shigeta, Anna Lee, and Gloria Pall.

Stripper killed shot down in the middle of Main Street and LAPD detectives hunt killer in Little Tokyo. Turns into a sort of message movie on Asian/Caucasian integration, some nice noir sequences . The more Noir I see of Fuller the more he doesn't quite ever reach the standards of Pickup on South Street or House of Bamboo but this one is better than Naked Kiss and Shock Corridor which look comparatively like cheap TV back lot productions . 6/10 

This one at least made copious use of real locations. Its nice seeing Main Street LA and Little Tokyo in all their glory in the shadow of City Hall.  

At its peak, Little Tokyo had approximately 30,000 Japanese Americans living in the area. Little Tokyo is still a cultural focal point for Los Angeles's Japanese American population. It is mainly a work, cultural, religious, restaurant and shopping district, because Japanese Americans today are likely to live in nearby cities such as Torrance, Gardena, and Monterey Park, as well as the Sawtelle district in the Westside of Los Angeles. However, the recent boom in downtown residential construction is changing the nature of Little Tokyo.

What is left of the original Little Tokyo can be found in roughly five large city blocks. It is bounded on the west by Los Angeles Street, on the east by Alameda Street, on the south by 3rd Street, and on the north by First Street, but also includes a substantial portion of the block north of First and west of Alameda, location of the Japanese American National Museum, the Go For Broke Monument, and a row of historic shops which lines the north side of First Street. A timeline has been set into the concrete in front of these shops, using bronze lettering, showing the history of each of the shops from the early 20th Century until the renovation of the district in the late 1980s. More broadly, Little Tokyo is bordered by the Los Angeles River to the east, downtown Los Angeles to the west, L.A. City Hall and the Parker Center to the north. (Wiki)

Nowadays you might not even know you're in it, and nearby Chinatown is also pretty Disney-fied.

I'll tell you one thing is Hollywood's depictions of strippers in films was still stuck in the 1940s in 1959. Sugar Torch's outfit was pathetic, complete with her granny panties. lol.  

The Crimson Kimono | Trailers From Hell

XRgdOIt.jpg

Compare that to the reality of what real strippers were wearing in 1960 below from  Documentary Noir  The Savage Eye (1960) a year later below. To paraphrase Shelly Winters quote of what  Stanley Kubrick told her about wearing a robe to bed on her honeymoon in Lolita (1962) .... (Hollywood - MPPC - Fuller)"It Looks Stupid..."

YbdSfzw.jpg

 

 

 

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Thanks for re-posting this Joe!      Like I said my mom and I would go to Little Tokyo back in the late 60s early 70s.   It was mostly the same as in the film.    We would go to the Buddhist temple shown in the film.    This helped my mom 'adjust' since she when from growing up in Tokyo right to CA after she married an American stationed in Japan (my dad).  

PS:  with regards to:  "Sugar Torch's outfit was pathetic, complete with her granny panties."

Yea,  the outfits worn by Carmen in The Big Sleep or Liz Scott in  Strange Loves of Martha Ivers are sexier than what Sugar Torch is sporting!
The blouse black Carmen Sternwood (Martha Vickers in The Big Sleep ...image.jpeg.6198128ed100f8fd2f56b6ff62467aaa.jpeg

 

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20 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Thanks for re-posting this Joe!      Like I said my mom and I would go to Little Tokyo back in the late 60s early 70s.   It was mostly the same as in the film.    We would go to the Buddhist temple shown in the film.    This helped my mom 'adjust' since she when from growing up in Tokyo right to CA after she married an American stationed in Japan (my dad).   

What's that area like now? 

We parked on the 300 block of East 3rd Street  (back in 2017) just West of San Pedro St., and from there walked to City Hall and then over to Union Station and back then walked  down Main St and then over to The Bradbury Building and the 3rd St Tunnel then down to Angels Flight.  There wasn't much to indicate any "Japantown" unless there was something further East closer to the LA River.

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2 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

What's that area like now? 

We parked on the 300 block of East 3rd Street  (back in 2017) just West of San Pedro St., and from there walked to City Hall and then over to Union Station and back then walked  down Main St and then over to The Bradbury Building and the 3rd St Tunnel then down to Angels Flight.  There wasn't much to indicate any "Japantown" unless there was something further East closer to the LA River.

Funny but my mom is staying with me (just came last night after being with my sister due to C-19)  and we talked about the film and she asked me the same thing.  She hasn't been in the area for over 10 years.   The last time I went,  5 or so years ago,  there wasn't much left and it what was there was more 'Asian' town than the Little Tokyo I grew up with.   E.g.  more Chinese restaurants,   etc...       Korean town in L.A.  is now the much larger area.     

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On 5/14/2020 at 11:05 AM, cigarjoe said:

The Crimson Kimono (1959) director Sam Fuller, with Victoria Shaw, Glenn Corbett, James Shigeta, Anna Lee, and Gloria Pall.

Stripper killed shot down in the middle of Main Street and LAPD detectives hunt killer in Little Tokyo. Turns into a sort of message movie on Asian/Caucasian integration, some nice noir sequences . The more Noir I see of Fuller the more he doesn't quite ever reach the standards of Pickup on South Street or House of Bamboo but this one is better than Naked Kiss and Shock Corridor which look comparatively like cheap TV back lot productions . 6/10 

I just saw this for the second time, I also give it 6/10.  I agree it is not one of Fuller's better films but interesting. I have to disagree on The Naked Kiss, which is my favorite Fuller. 

I agree about the on location shooting, especially the night scenes of very sleazy LA areas. The film is quite short (82 minutes) and a few scenes seem to fade out rather quickly making me suspect that much was cut. This film will mean more to Fuller fans than just average movie lovers. Shigeta gives a great performance as the Japanese American cop, he also appeared in another interracial romance Bridge To The Sun (1961) with Carroll Baker. Glenn Corbett is good too as Shigeta's partner. he appeared in one of my favorite William Castle films Homicidal, though he was a bland leading man character.  Anna Lee nearly steals the film as a hard drinking bohemian artist. 

Eddie Muller says another Fuller film Underworld USA will soon be seen on Noir Alley, I think a much better one. 

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James Shigeta....(sigh)   Have had a crush on him ever since FLOWER DRUM SONG.  You can keep Errol Flynn, Tyrone Power, et. al.  Give me some Jimmie!!!  In my opinion, one of the handsomest men in all moviedom.

Just finished watching THE CRIMSON KIMONO.   Eh, not too impressed with this movie but re: my above sentence, who cares, lol??  

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6 minutes ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

I just saw this for the second time, I also give it 6/10.  I agree it is not one of Fuller's better films but interesting. I have to disagree on The Naked Kiss, which is my favorite Fuller. 

I agree about the on location shooting, especially the night scenes of very sleazy LA areas. The film is quite short (82 minutes) and a few scenes seem to fade out rather quickly making me suspect that much was cut. This film will mean more to Fuller fans than just average movie lovers. Shigeta gives a great performance as the Japanese American cop, he also appeared in another interracial romance Bridge To The Sun (1961) with Carroll Baker. Glenn Corbett is good too as Shigeta's partner. he appeared in one of my favorite William Castle films Homicidal, though he was a bland leading man character.  Anna Lee nearly steals the film as a hard drinking bohemian artist. 

Eddie Muller says another Fuller film Underworld USA will soon be seen on Noir Alley, I think a much better one. 

The best part of the Naked Kiss is the opening sequence, and some of the creepier sequences with the kids. The whole small town stuff looks heap backlot like the Maybury set from Andy Griffiths Show. Its missing that gritty downtown LA/Bunker Hill "Noir" atmosphere. Which is too bad, especially when you look at the great atmosphere that was achieved in Touch Of Evil, shot around LA and Venice, California.    

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5 hours ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

I just saw this for the second time, I also give it 6/10.  I agree it is not one of Fuller's better films but interesting. I have to disagree on The Naked Kiss, which is my favorite Fuller. 

I agree about the on location shooting, especially the night scenes of very sleazy LA areas. The film is quite short (82 minutes) and a few scenes seem to fade out rather quickly making me suspect that much was cut. This film will mean more to Fuller fans than just average movie lovers. Shigeta gives a great performance as the Japanese American cop, he also appeared in another interracial romance Bridge To The Sun (1961) with Carroll Baker. Glenn Corbett is good too as Shigeta's partner. he appeared in one of my favorite William Castle films Homicidal, though he was a bland leading man character.  Anna Lee nearly steals the film as a hard drinking bohemian artist. 

Eddie Muller says another Fuller film Underworld USA will soon be seen on Noir Alley, I think a much better one. 

I agree with your take on The Crimson Kimono.    As Eddie said in his intro the actual murder \ crime  \ solving-the-case aspect of the film is lacking and unlike most crime \ noir films done in the 40s and 50s,  these aspects are just used to carry forward the story of the wow-such-buddies and of course the racial love triangle.     (while most crime \ noir films have a romantic aspect and other auxiliary aspects,  they typically revolve around the crime,  especially solving it when the stars are detectives,  instead of the other way around like we see here).

First time my Japanese mom saw the film and it was nice to see it with her last night;   E.g. when Shigeta  plays that Japanese children's  song;  my mom starts singing the song in Japanese (I was about to ask her if she knew the song,,,, but instead just commented,    'yea,  I guess that is really a well known song',,,,  it was and she learned it over 70 years ago!).       The few times Shigeta spoke Japanese my wife would ask her to translate.     

I have seen Underworld USA before but with commercials,   so I'm looking forward to seeing it on TCM;  Brutal film and one where the revenge-for-my-father angle story line is front and center in almost every scene.      I like Cliff Robertson in this film and his zero-softness \ ruthless persona  (no Charly in this one!).

 

 

      

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6 minutes ago, cigarjoe said:

The best part of the Naked Kiss is the opening sequence, and some of the creepier sequences with the kids. The whole small town stuff looks heap backlot like the Maybury set from Andy Griffiths Show. Its missing that gritty downtown LA/Bunker Hill "Noir" atmosphere. Which is too bad, especially when you look at the great atmosphere that was achieved in Touch Of Evil, shot around LA and Venice, California.    

I actually liked the studio set scenes, since the film was set in nice little town. It was a great contrast to the jaw dropping perversity that happens in the film. 

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7 minutes ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

James Shigeta....(sigh)   Have had a crush on him ever since FLOWER DRUM SONG.  You can keep Errol Flynn, Tyrone Power, et. al.  Give me some Jimmie!!!  In my opinion, one of the handsomest men in all moviedom.

 

James Shigeta: handsome, sweet, gentle strength, lovely soft voice. What's not to like?

SPOILER ALERT??:  Eddie's intro gives away what was actually a plot twist for me. I knew nothing about the film when I saw it the first time a few years ago, and about an hour in I was thinking, "Well, if it were me, I'd dump Glenn Corbett for that dreamy James Shigeta," and then that was exactly where the movie went. The Crimson Kimono is one of my favorite Fuller films, just below Pickup on South Street and The Steel Helmet. Frequently, Fuller's directorial skill is undercut by his writing deficiencies. He knows how to pick a good subject for a film and open strongly (he was a tabloid journalist, and it shows), but often has problems developing the story and writing credible dialogue. The Crimson Kimono has a much better developed script than most Fuller movies, and this time around I appreciated the way he ties together the reason for the murder and the detective's assumption about his buddy's reaction.

By the way, you gotta love how Victoria Shaw says with surprise that she never gave Glenn Corbett reason to think she was interested. Uh, that's not what we saw, toots. He came on fairly strong, and she agreed to go out with him. Anna Lee is terrific. Eddie mentioned that Anna Lee was fondly remembered as Lila Quartermaine on General Hospital. A decade or so earlier, Victoria Shaw was also on GH as a TV reporter who was a love interest for John Beradino's Dr. Steve Hardy, but the character never caught on.

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3 minutes ago, kingrat said:

SPOILER ALERT??:  Eddie's intro gives away what was actually a plot twist for me. I knew nothing about the film when I saw it the first time a few years ago, and about an hour in I was thinking, "Well, if it were me, I'd dump Glenn Corbett for that dreamy James Shigeta," and then that was exactly where the movie went.

Well as Eddie showed in the "outro",   the studio didn't feel that was a spoiler or a plot twist based on the ads for the film;   The only plot twist in their minds was who the killer was;

image.jpeg.0854ec65fdf33eebef7d6b6feaed4273.jpeg

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5 minutes ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I have seen Underworld USA before but with commercials,   so I'm looking forward to seeing it on TCM;  Brutal film and one where the revenge-for-my-father angle story line is front and center in almost every scene.      

Another one  that would have been greatly improved  if it had used  on location work hell even guerrilla-style. Those back lots could be very effective at one point in the history of Classic Hollywood, you can see that now something is missing. 

One film that really shows the two resources jarringly side by side is Glen Ford's Transitional Noir  The Money Trap (1965)

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I was pleasantly surprised with CRIMSON KIMONO. My expectations were fairly low. I thought Corbett  and Shigeta were both great in their roles.  Especially since this was early in their careers. I don't remember much of Glenn Corbett's work except for ROUTE 66.  I always like him on that show. Following another actor on a popular TV show is tough. I think Harry Morgan and Mike Farrell pulled it off on MASH, but Cheryl Ladd wasn't quite as successful following Farrah on CHARLIE'S ANGELS.   My apologies for digressing.                                                                                                     All and all I look forward to seeing more of Sam Fuller's work.

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10 minutes ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

I actually liked the studio set scenes, since the film was set in nice little town. It was a great contrast to the jaw dropping perversity that happens in the film. 

There's nothing wrong with using a nice little town, think of the one in Out of The Past, its a nice real little town that looks like one

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Gotta say earlier on in The Crimson Kimono when Glenn Corbett mentioned "the girl from Gardena", my ears perked up a bit.

I'm a proud member of the Gardena High School class of 1970 ya see, and where many of my fellow graduating classmates were Sansei of which a couple of their fathers were members of the 442nd Infantry Regiment which you see honored with that plaque in this film containing the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

(...although I sure did hate walkin' into class the first day of semester to discover a large percentage of my class were my "Buddahead" buddies, and which meant it would be an accelerated class that meant tons of freakin' homework just to keep up...generally they're a damn studious lot ya know, although Alan Nakayama was a bit of slacker like me as I recall) 

LOL

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Gotta say earlier on in The Crimson Kimono when Glenn Corbett mentioned "the girl from Gardena", my ears perked up a bit.

I'm a proud member of the Gardena High School class of 1970 ya see, and where many of my fellow graduating classmates were Sansei of which a couple of their fathers were members of the 442nd Infantry Regiment which you see honored with that plaque in this film containing the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

(...although I sure did hate walkin' into class the first day of semester to discover a large percentage of my class were my "Buddahead" buddies, and which meant it would be an accelerated class that meant tons of freakin' homework just to keep up...generally they're a damn studious lot ya know, although Alan Nakayama was a bit of slacker like me as I recall) 

LOL

My mom and I noticed that as well since we grew up in Gardena.    Gardena had the second largest population of Japanese Americans in So Cal,  after Little Tokyo.

Hey,  did you use to go to the Vermont drive-in theater and the Ascot race track?     These were handouts my brothers,  friends and I would ride our bikes to.    I left the area when I was about 10,   3 or so years after the Watts riots  when we moved to the O.C.   (and that was also a major reason my parents marriage fell apart since my mom didn't have her Japanese friends close to her and went into a suburbs-induced-depression).

 

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On 5/14/2020 at 10:11 AM, jamesjazzguitar said:

Thanks for re-posting this Joe!      Like I said my mom and I would go to Little Tokyo back in the late 60s early 70s.   It was mostly the same as in the film.    We would go to the Buddhist temple shown in the film.    This helped my mom 'adjust' since she when from growing up in Tokyo right to CA after she married an American stationed in Japan (my dad).  

PS:  with regards to:  "Sugar Torch's outfit was pathetic, complete with her granny panties."

Yea,  the outfits worn by Carmen in The Big Sleep or Liz Scott in  Strange Loves of Martha Ivers are sexier than what Sugar Torch is sporting!
The blouse black Carmen Sternwood (Martha Vickers in The Big Sleep ...image.jpeg.6198128ed100f8fd2f56b6ff62467aaa.jpeg

 

I might be off with my assessment here, but I think Sugar Torch 'bought it' at the beginning of the film because of her un-sexy garb (well, maybe not) 🤔.

One aspect I really liked about "The Crimson Kimono" was how James Shigeta's character was treated by non-Asian characters in the film.  Nobody complained about him or questioned his authority as a cop asking questions about a murder.  They never looked at Glenn Corbett for guidance or re-assurance on how to answer or complained to him about a non-white cop trying to get to the bottom of things.  Compare the way Shigeta was treated in this movie compared to Sidney Poitier in "In The Heat Of The Night", and the latter took place 8 years after "The Crimson Kimono".

1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Gotta say earlier on in The Crimson Kimono when Glenn Corbett mentioned "the girl from Gardena", my ears perked up a bit.

I'm a proud member of the Gardena High School class of 1970 ya see, and where many of my fellow graduating classmates were Sansei of which a couple of their fathers were members of the 442nd Infantry Regiment which you see honored with that plaque in this film containing the words of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

(...although I sure did hate walkin' into class the first day of semester to discover a large percentage of my class were my "Buddahead" buddies, and which meant it would be an accelerated class that meant tons of freakin' homework just to keep up...generally they're a damn studious lot ya know, although Alan Nakayama was a bit of slacker like me as I recall) 

LOL

Thanks for bringing up your memory on this Dargo.  Today happens to be my 40th anniversary of graduating from college.  It still stands as about the hardest thing I ever had to do, but it is one of the most satisfying achievements I ever attained.  And my career at school was almost over before it began.  I was not the most studious type when I arrived on campus my freshman year.  I was into socializing, meeting new friends, drinking up the whole college experience, and drinking other adult-type beverages.  I was put on academic probation following my first semester, which meant if I didn't pull my overall grade point average up to a 'C', I was going to be history (which is ironic, because History turned out to be my major by the time I got my sheepskin!).  I went from a 'D+' after that dreadful first half year and ended up with the equivalent of a 'B-' GPA three and a half years later.  I remember a fellow who lived on the floor at my dorm my junior and senior years.  He was of Japanese ancestry and lived in Chicago...Ken was a nice guy who was pretty quiet and easy-going.  Like so many of my contemporaries from that time, we've lost touch with each other.  I hope they're doing well.  We had some great times back in the day.

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4 hours ago, kingrat said:

James Shigeta: handsome, sweet, gentle strength, lovely soft voice. What's not to like?

SPOILER ALERT??:  Eddie's intro gives away what was actually a plot twist for me. I knew nothing about the film when I saw it the first time a few years ago, and about an hour in I was thinking, "Well, if it were me, I'd dump Glenn Corbett for that dreamy James Shigeta," and then that was exactly where the movie went. 

And TCM is running FLOWER DRUM SONG this Wednesday! 

As soon as James sat down at the piano and started playing that beautiful Japanese melody, I think that's when Victoria really began to "appreciate"  him.   God knows I would.

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4 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

My mom and I noticed that as well since we grew up in Gardena.    Gardena had the second largest population of Japanese Americans in So Cal,  after Little Tokyo.

Hey,  did you use to go to the Vermont drive-in theater and the Ascot race track?     These were handouts my brothers,  friends and I would ride our bikes to.    I left the area when I was about 10,   3 or so years after the Watts riots  when we moved to the O.C.   (and that was also a major reason my parents marriage fell apart since my mom didn't have her Japanese friends close to her and went into a suburbs-induced-depression).

 

Seems the city of Torrance which as you know is adjacent to Gardena is where according to Wikipedia the largest community within North America of people of Japanese descent presently reside, James.

And yes, I remember the Watts riot of '65 very well too, what with my childhood home very near the intersection of Crenshaw Blvd and the then named Compton Ave, and with the latter thoroughfare being renamed Marine Ave through the western portion of Gardena and as it had already been named through the cities of Manhattan Beach and I believe Lawndale, and due I would presume to the unfortunate negative connotation that riot would foster of the nearby city of Compton.

And yep, spent many a night at both the Vermont Drive-In (among many of the movies I recall watching there were True Grit and The Abominable Dr, Phibes) and at Ascot Park raceway where not only did my dad and I watch Evel Knievel jump 15 cars on his Triumph motorcycle in 1967 (it was also telecast on ABC's Wide World of Sports and which would be one of first to contribute to making him a household name) but I was also at Ascot almost anytime the Grand National Championship motorcycle Flat Track racing series stopped there twice a year.

(...I owned a BSA motorcycle at the time, and so of course would root on the BSA factory riders especially as they slid around that half-mile dirt track at breakneck speed)

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