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45 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

laffite,  I also meant , in response to your comments about  "Murder by Contract" and "The Third Man",  to mention another noir which is often  compared to "The Third Man"  :  "He Walked by Night".  I believe Eddie has shown this film on Noir Alley,  but it was quite a while ago.  

Although there's no "Third Man" type music in "He Walked by Night",  there's certainly a scene reminiscent  of that famous movie;  the hunted man tries to take refuge,  escape, in a series of tunnels underneath the city.  What's kind of interesting about comparing those two films though is, "He Walked by Night" was actually made a year before  "The Third Man".    ( "He Walked by Night", 1948   ;   "The Third Man",  1949).

Another Film Noir with a very nice piece of music behind it is Odd Man Out (1947) Symphony No. 8 (Unfinished)  by Franz Schubert

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Not to be contrarian to what laffite and Dargo posted earlier about the zither music in "The Third Man", but I actually enjoy listening to it.  It's an instrument you don't hear every day; at least, not on an Adult Contemporary or Oldies station!  Then again, I'm the kind of guy who likes listening to all 3 versions of "Heard It Through The Grapevine" (Marvin Gaye, Creedence Clearwater Revival, Gladys Knight & The Pips).  I also like both versions of different songs with similar titles:  "Valeri" by the Monkees and "Valerie" by Steve Winwood!

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1 minute ago, cigarjoe said:

Another Film Noir with a very nice piece of music behind it is Odd Man Out (1947) Symphony No. 8 (Unfinished)  by Franz Schubert

Hey !  I love "Odd Man Out"  (wish TCM would air it more often)   and I love Schubert.   

Funny, even though as I said, I am a fan of Schubert's music, I don't recall that symphony in the soundtrack of "Odd Man Out".   Now I really want to see that movie again, and this time I'll be watching  (or listening) for Schubert's Unfinished.

(Schubert:  a couple of faves:  the music to "Rosamunde",  and  the piano sonatas.)

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Hey !  I love "Odd Man Out"  (wish TCM would air it more often)   and I love Schubert.   

 

The final sequence music in the snow by  William Alwyn is excellent also.

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2 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

laffite,  I also meant , in response to your comments about  "Murder by Contract" and "The Third Man",  to mention another noir which is often  compared to "The Third Man"  :  "He Walked by Night".  I believe Eddie has shown this film on Noir Alley,  but it was quite a while ago.  

Although there's no "Third Man" type music in "He Walked by Night",  there's certainly a scene reminiscent  of that famous movie;  the hunted man tries to take refuge,  escape, in a series of tunnels underneath the city.  What's kind of interesting about comparing those two films though is, "He Walked by Night" was actually made a year before  "The Third Man".    ( "He Walked by Night", 1948   ;   "The Third Man",  1949).

0c4fc68c4fbc308e2e79de1c4e8c8b2c.jpg

"Hmmm...I always wondered why those were two of my favorite movies!"

(...btw MissW...another movie which I always thought mimicked TTM quite a bit was the James Mason-starring and also Carol Reed directed The Man Between...although it doesn't feature any kind of subterranean escape deployment as I recall)

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

0c4fc68c4fbc308e2e79de1c4e8c8b2c.jpg

"Hmmm...I always wondered why those were two of my favorite movies!"

(...btw MissW...another movie which I always thought mimicked TTM quite a bit was the James Mason-starring and also Carol Reed directed The Man Between...although it doesn't feature any kind of subterranean escape deployment as I recall)

You mean they never made a movie of Captain Video? Good thing, I don't think they would have let you in the theater with all that paraphernalia.

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1 minute ago, laffite said:

You mean they never made a movie of Captain Video? Good thing, I don't think they would have let you in the theater with all that paraphernalia.

Captain_Video.jpg

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On 6/15/2020 at 2:34 PM, Dargo said:

Actually laffite, I understand TTM's zither only score is quite often many people's complaint about this great film.

Evidently it gets on their nerves too.

(...me?...well, maybe a little here and there)

The decision to use Anton Karas and his zither was made by director Carol Reed when he came across him during the Vienna location shooting for The Third Man. I've speculated before on why I think the zither music works for this film rather than a more conventional musical score.

Holly Martins is very much a fish out of water in this film, a naive American unaware, initially at least, of the dangers that lurk in those dark, twisting post war Vienna streets. Likewise, the zither music has an unusual foreign sound to American ears. Every time you hear those strings strung it's a reminder to the audience that the action of this film is in a foreign land.

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3 minutes ago, TomJH said:

The decision to use Anton Karas and his zither was made by director Carol Reed when he came across him during the Vienna location shooting for The Third Man. I've speculated before on why I think the zither music works for this film rather than a more conventional musical score.

Holly Martins is very much a fish out of water in this film, a naive American unaware, initially at least, of the dangers that lurk in those dark, twisting post war Vienna streets. Likewise, the zither music has an unusual foreign sound to American ears. Every time you hear those strings strung it's a reminder to the audience that the action of this film is in a foreign land.

Never thought about this in quite that way before Tom, but damn, I think you nailed it.

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13 minutes ago, TomJH said:

Likewise, the zither music has an unusual foreign sound to American ears. Every time you hear those strings strung it's a reminder to the audience that the action of this film is in a foreign land.

When I was watching the movie, it reminded me of US Greek movies, but then I am not that experienced in movie music.

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-Are you Philip Marlowe, the private investigator?

-Yes, how can I help you?

-I'm the obviously homosexual man who comes to see you in just about all of your

novels and movies.

-Oh yeah, come on in, I've been expecting you. 

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14 minutes ago, Vautrin said:

-Are you Philip Marlowe, the private investigator?

-Yes, how can I help you?

-I'm the obviously homosexual man who comes to see you in just about all of your

novels and movies.

-Oh yeah, come on in, I've been expecting you. 

Guess this is now my cue again to supply the proper graphic that goes with the post...

63bc11ff895f9d7537f3dd2c48ad5e8e.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, Dargo said:

Guess this is now my cue again to supply the proper graphic that goes with the post...

63bc11ff895f9d7537f3dd2c48ad5e8e.jpg

 

Yep. The only thing missing is Powell taking a whiff of the no doubt heavily

perfumed card.  Sorry guy, Philip only swings one way.

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Tonight at 12:15 (EDT),  is Underworld U.S.A.   (1961);   This Sam Fuller neo-noir finds Cliff Robertson joining the mob to revenge the death of his father.

Richard Rust makes for a solid hitman in a role similar to the one he would play the following year in Walk on the Wild Side.

Very dark film with little to no sentimentality.      

Underworldusa2.jpg

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When we were discussing Odds Against Tomorrow, I forgot to mention how much I love Ed Begley's performance as the corrupt ex-cop. And if you had to cast the role of a dame who was a little bit turned on by the fact that a guy was a killer, Gloria Grahame would be your top choice.

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1 hour ago, kingrat said:

When we were discussing Odds Against Tomorrow, I forgot to mention how much I love Ed Begley's performance as the corrupt ex-cop. And if you had to cast the role of a dame who was a little bit turned on by the fact that a guy was a killer, Gloria Grahame would be your top choice.

Yes, indeed top-notch performances from Begley and Grahame from a movie that I feel is very much underrated.

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18 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Tonight at 12:15 (EDT),  is Underworld U.S.A.   (1961);   This Sam Fuller neo-noir finds Cliff Robertson joining the mob to revenge the death of his father.

Richard Rust makes for a solid hitman in a role similar to the one he would play the following year in Walk on the Wild Side.

Very dark film with little to no sentimentality.      

I was looking forward to seeing this one again, one of my favorite Fuller films.

Cliff Robertson was very good as the smirking ex con. I liked how he used ingenious ways of getting his revenge, playing both sides of the law.

Richard Rust was chilling as the cold blooded killer, he did not make many films. I never saw Walk On The Wild Side, but he was good in the role of a patsy in William Castle's Homicidal (1961).

Robert Emhardt has one his typical roles as a sleazy mob boss. I often thought if you looked up "sleaze ball" in the dictionary you would find a picture of him.

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Underworld U.S.A. (1961) is what I call a Transitional Noir. They are beginning to look, feel, and sometimes sound  different from the Classic Hollywood Noir, besides beginning to explore other dark stories and subjects besides Crime. Last weeks Murder by Contract is another so are Man with The Golden Arm, Cry Terror, The Beat Generation, Stake Out On Dope StreetSlaughter on 10th Avenue,  City of Fear, The Crimson Kimono, Dementia, Shock Corridor, Death In Small Doses, 5 Against the House, Fright, A Kiss Before Dying,  My Gun Is Quick, Odds Against Tomorrow,  Party Girl, The Naked Kiss,  Slightly Scarlet, Plunder Road, Party Girl, Screaming Mimi, Sweet Smell Of Success, The Tattered Dress, Time Table, Date With Death, and Touch Of Evil.  They are also beginning to get framed differently going from the standard Academy Ratio to wider screen.

Definitions/Categories/Classifications of Noir, one aficio-noir-dos thoughts.... Dark stories plus stylistic visuals and sometimes audios from the mid 1930s to the present are all Film Noir. Chronologically (though some of these can overlap), you can break them into French Neo Realist period from mid 1930s to WWII. Classic Hollywood Film Noir running 1940- usually 1959, Transitional Noir from mid 1950s to 1969-70, then Neo Noir, from 1970 to present. 


Another simplified way to look at it that Film Noir are all dark story plus visually (and sometimes audio) stylistic films shot in Black & White from mid 1930s to present. Neo Noir were essentially all dark story plus visually (and sometimes audio) stylistic film shot in Color starting in 1945 with "Leaver Her To Heaven" to the present. So essentially Noir and Neo Noir were made parallel to each other until the end of studio production Black and White cinematography.  


Then you can break Classic Hollywood Noir visually into the Early Studio Noir (the WWII electricity rationing inspiring cinematographic creativity and the MPPC censorship influencing story creativity) and the On Location Noirs (those films noir shot more and more on location with the lighter cameras developed during WWII for newsreels). Transitional Noir are those film noir that began to exploit the crumbling Motion Picture Production Code and ever changing obscenity laws with stylistic visuals and dark storylines that explored the other dark sides of humanity as most Crime Genre based noirs migrated to TV, these Noirs tend overlap Classic Hollywood Noir from about the mid 50s to 1959 then continue up to 1969-70. This Transitional Noir era I can further break down visually into the Tail Fin Noirs (noirs that featured tail fin cars and pointy bras) and storywise the Beatnik Noirs that started to exploit the Beat Generation.                                                                       
You an probably further break all Noirs down musically also from predominantly string soundtracks to jazz, to bongos and base, to rock and blues.                                                                            
 Neo Noirs have been made now for 50 years, The Neo Noirs of the 70s were still exploiting visual and story subject matter we can call them The Exploitation Neo Noirs. In the 1980s there was a lull in Noir production with some standout sleeper Noir Hits like Body Heat and Blue Velvet and a lot of cult favorites. The 1990s I call the Golden Age of Neo Noir, Noir production was up, Noir even had anthology series on cable TV. From the 2000s to the present we are in another lull with occasional gems being produced.

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I really enjoyed UNDERWORLD USA. Cliff Robertson was great as were the two women, Dolores Dorn and Beatrice Kay.  Larry Gates was good as Driscol too. I always remember him from his small role in INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS.  The film did a great job of showing how obsessed Tolly was to avenge his father's murder.  I found myself pulling for him to turn his live around with Cuddles.  I realized this movie was made in 1961 which was probably before they relaxed the code.  No way a career criminal was going to get a happy ending.  Also, I liked Eddie's summation. I knew Robertson played JFK in PT 109, but I didn't know Kennedy requested him.                                                                                                                                                                                                                       

  I'm looking forward to THE WOMAN FROM SHANGHAI next week. I'm a fan of Orsen Wells and as mentioned on another thread, I'm becoming an admirer of Rita Hayworth.  Although I watched it recently, it's one of those films I can watch again and again. The only two things I question are Wells's thick Irish accent and making Hayworth a blonde. 

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46 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

The only two things I question are Wells's thick Irish accent and making Hayworth a blonde. 

We almost all do.

 

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1 hour ago, Hoganman1 said:

I really enjoyed UNDERWORLD USA. Cliff Robertson was great as were the two women, Dolores Dorn and Beatrice Kay.

Agreed. You don't always get good performances in Fuller films, but these are fine. 1961 wasn't the strongest year for supporting actress roles, and I believe Beatrice Kay was my choice when several of us were doing year-by-year alternate Oscars. Beatrice Kay was on the cover of a book called Dames which came out in the late 60s or early 70s, and the still was from Underworld USA.

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I thought Underworld USA  was just ok. Eddie oversold it for me. I don't worship Sam Fuller like he does. I was bored during parts of it. Too slow and the plot was so familiar. Richard Rust was good at playing heavies. After a good start in films, he worked mostly on tv. He died very young of a heart attack at  59.

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3 hours ago, Det Jim McLeod said:

What's your opinion of it? 

I liked it, although I missed the first 10 minutes so don't know what Eddie said.  I had seen it many years ago.  I thought Robertson's death scene at the end was probably the longest in movie history.  Especially considering they skipped the ride down in the elevator from the penthouse, unless  he took the stairs.

Thought the two women did well.  I remember Larry Gates from a Route 66 episode, Sleep on Four Pillows (1961).  He played the head of a private detective agency (sort of like Pinkertons) in a humorous manner.

Did Eddie say anything really good during the intro?

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17 minutes ago, TheCid said:

I thought Robertson's death scene at the end was probably the longest in movie history. 

If the Olympics ever offer a competition for a 50-yard dash after being hit with a bullet, I'll put my money on Robertson.

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