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Noir Alley

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15 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well it didn't take long for this to go off the rails. It appears all forms of social media  eventually turn into arguments.  That includes even ones as benign as this one.  I think I'll take a little break from reading and posting here. I watch TCM to get away from all that is happening in the US and the world today. If I want to hear people arguing, I can always go to cable news.

A wise move and one I do from time to time, but not often enough.

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59 minutes ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well it didn't take long for this to go off the rails. It appears all forms of social media  eventually turn into arguments.  That includes even ones as benign as this one.  I think I'll take a little break from reading and posting here. I watch TCM to get away from all that is happening in the US and the world today. If I want to hear people arguing, I can always go to cable news.

Use the ignore option it is useful to avoid problematic posters...

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I've always thought of this movie as an entertaining shaggy dog story. I think Orson does well playing

the main character, who is a charming braggart who isn't sure what is exactly going on and seems

to be involved with events that go over his head, much as Welles was in Hollywood at times. And Rita

looks splendid with her short platinum blonde do. Very alluring, even if she is not a nice girl. And

Glenn Anders is perfect as the paranoid kook come murderer. He seems so 2020. I usually forget

the details of the murder plots in the years between viewings, but I think they are made clear by the

end of the film. 

 

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7 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

So nice that Errol brought his daughter along for the ... wait (sputter), his WHAT?

Thanks to Tom,   I now know there was only a 14 - 15 year age difference between Flynn and his wife in that photo (my wife and I have a 12 - 13 year difference),   BUT,  when I saw the photo I assumed she was a teenager;   I.e.  to me she looks younger than 23.   Oh well,  that is what Flynn desired.

 

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Yes, I had to check out her identity on imdb. I would have guessed about 14-16 from that photo. But people look different at the same age. No one looking at Brad Pitt and me at the same time would guess we're about the same age, for example.

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On 6/29/2020 at 10:16 AM, Hoganman1 said:

Someone  once said that everyone is entitled to an opinion. I merely expressed mine on TLFS.  While your opinion is different and, as you pointed out at great length; probably better than mine, it doesn't make mine wrong.  Let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. Frankly, I tend to agree with you most of the time which is why I added the "with all do respect" phrase.

By the way, I don't think there's anything one could do to Rita Hayworth to make her less attractive.  She is rapidly moving into my top tier of favorite classic actresses with Natalie, Audrey and Grace.

Honestly, Hoganman, re-read my post.  I am very surprised that you responded as you did, clearly taking offence.  This, even though I so carefully went out of my way to make it clear that I was in no way criticizing your opinion of "The Lady fro m Shanghai" -- and in fact, your opinion of the film is the majority one here, most people,  similar to you, like it. Mine is the unpopular and minority opinion.  And I certainly did not say my opinion was "better than yours";  I don't do stuff like that, I could not agree with you more that everyone is indeed not only entitled to their own opinion, about movies or anything else, but also entitled to express that opinion.

I'm genuinely surprised and even a little upset that you seemed to so completely misunderstand what I said in my earlier post about this film.   I explained why I did not like it; I never said or even implied that I therefore expected everyone else to dislike it.  Of course your opinion of this or any other movie you comment on is not wrong; that's the very nature of opinions, they're personal and they differ from person to person.  Again, I am sorry you seemed to take offence at my post about TLFS,  I certainly respect your views on films, and am glad you participate in this thread on noir.

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6 hours ago, chaya bat woof woof said:

Interesting back story (even about why Welles and Hayworth married.  I like the mirror(s) scene, but it was a disaster.

What was a disaster?  The mirror scene, or the entire film?  (I think you mean the latter, but I'm not sure...)

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5 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Sorry,  but it wasn't YOUR work;   that is the point here,  isn't it?    Both Orson and you knew that from the start;  I.e. that the amount of control,  ownership,  and even influence over THE work by YOU,  was limited.     

As for disrespectful;  I'm going to flip that;    Is there anything MORE DISRESPECTFUL than someone using other people's money and NOT expecting them to so call 'tamper' with THEIR product?   What THEY paid for?

 

You have a really strange attitude, sometimes james.  You seem to think money trumps art.  I've read your views on this matter before, and I just don't get it.

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31 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

You have a really strange attitude, sometimes james.  You seem to think money trumps art.  I've read your views on this matter before, and I just don't get it.

What is so hard to get?   This isn't some 'strange attitude' but instead just a legal reality between employer and employee.    Note that I made my living as a software engineer and I had to deal with that.      E.g.  the part of my employment contract that states anything created is owned by the corporation.    

Welles signed similar contracts.       Welles was an RKO employee.    He ended up not liking the constraints placed on him and left to form his own production company working with studios only to distribution his films.      I.e. Welles moved in another direction.

PS:  I'm dealing with this related to playing music at private events;   The band and I have two different rates;   one for we-play-the-music-we-want-to-play and the other is we-play-what-you-want-and-only-that.        We charge 50% more for the latter.     Generally we dislike the latter (since it requires us to learn some songs just for a gig,,,, and \ or we dislike the songs,,,,find them un-creative,  boring to play etc....).       This falls under being a professional.  

 

 

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5 hours ago, Hoganman1 said:

Well it didn't take long for this to go off the rails. It appears all forms of social media  eventually turn into arguments.  That includes even ones as benign as this one.  I think I'll take a little break from reading and posting here. I watch TCM to get away from all that is happening in the US and the world today. If I want to hear people arguing, I can always go to cable news.

Oh c'mon now, Hogan my friend!

Remember that we're in the "Noir Alley" thread here, and noirs themselves were never noted for being all sunshine and roses and kumbaya, ya know.

And so, just think of that little argument you just witnessed here as an extension from the realm of REEL life and into that of REAL life and you'll be just fine! And you DO love film noir I'd guess, RIGHT?!  ;)

LOL

(...sorry, just couldn't resist...AND just attempting to break whatever tension there might now be here by use of a little frivolity too, of course)

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15 hours ago, sewhite2000 said:

Yes, I had to check out her identity on imdb. I would have guessed about 14-16 from that photo. But people look different at the same age. No one looking at Brad Pitt and me at the same time would guess we're about the same age, for example.

He looks older, right?😀

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This weeks July 4th noir film is The Sign of the Ram;    This review on Wiki isn't very faltering. 

Sadly Susan Peters died only a few years after this film at the age of  31.     Here most well-known film is Random Harvest where she play Kitty.

The only other film I have seen is 1942's The Big Shot with Bogie.   This film was a throwback,   just-another-gangster film, for Bogie.   That is very forgettable. 

Film critic Bosley Crowther, in The New York Times, was harsh. According to Crowther: "Plainly the story is claptrap. And the direction of John Sturges is such that the illogic and the pomposity are only magnified. By showing Miss Peters, in her wheelchair, as though she were an alabaster doll, with just about as much personality, he has completely denatured her role. And by directing Phyllis Thaxter, Peggy Ann Garner, Allene Roberts and Alexander Knox to hit such a slowness of tempo and such a sombreness of tone that the whole thing drifts into monotony, he has only emphasized the static qualities. If it weren't for the noisy interjection of thunder-drums and pounding surf from time to time, this would be an effective soporofic. And it might have been kinder to let it be.

 

 

Susan Peters in Keep Your Powder Dry.jpg

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12 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

This weeks July 4th noir film is The Sign of the Ram;    This review on Wiki isn't very faltering. 

Sadly Susan Peters died only a few years after this film at the age of  31.     Here most well-known film is Random Harvest where she play Kitty.

The only other film I have seen is 1942's The Big Shot with Bogie.   This film was a throwback,   just-another-gangster film, for Bogie.   That is very forgettable. 

Film critic Bosley Crowther, in The New York Times, was harsh. According to Crowther: "Plainly the story is claptrap. And the direction of John Sturges is such that the illogic and the pomposity are only magnified. By showing Miss Peters, in her wheelchair, as though she were an alabaster doll, with just about as much personality, he has completely denatured her role. And by directing Phyllis Thaxter, Peggy Ann Garner, Allene Roberts and Alexander Knox to hit such a slowness of tempo and such a sombreness of tone that the whole thing drifts into monotony, he has only emphasized the static qualities. If it weren't for the noisy interjection of thunder-drums and pounding surf from time to time, this would be an effective soporofic. And it might have been kinder to let it be.

"This review on Wiki isn't very faltering."  Assume you meant flattering?

Anyway, why is it being shown if so poor or do we need to wait for Eddie to explain that?

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15 minutes ago, TheCid said:

...Anyway, why is it being shown if so poor or do we need to wait for Eddie to explain that?

As we know Cid, Eddie often presents films which aren't exactly 4-star rated.

However, I remember watching this film a few years back, and as I recall it seemed more a family or domestic melodrama with the central character being the unlikable and devious sort. And so, I'd say this is probably the reason Eddie is showing it, and perhaps also because it's a case of that rare noir in which a woman is the central character.

(...just a guess here, but I'll bet these are some of the reasons)

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6 hours ago, TheCid said:

"This review on Wiki isn't very faltering."  Assume you meant flattering?

Anyway, why is it being shown if so poor or do we need to wait for Eddie to explain that?

I admit I'm interested in what Eddie has to say on why he would show a film that appears to be a stinker.

I assume it has to do with the 4th of July;    i.e.  lower viewership,,,, so don't show a 'winner' since there will be less viewers?????

BUT due to what is going on T.V. watching may be at a record high this 4th.

 

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I came across TSOTR on YT a few months ago. It is one part hothouse drawing room family

melodrama and one part mysterious goings on. Not very interesting on either account.

I did feel sorry for Susan Peters confined to her wheelchair and having not a lot to do except

insult people and plot things. I'll watch it because it will look better on TV than YT. In either

format it's pretty slow going.

 

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8 hours ago, TheCid said:

 

Anyway, why is it being shown if so poor or do we need to wait for Eddie to explain that?

Well, as far as I can tell, Bosley Crowther hated just about everything, at least anything even remotely noir.  I imagine him as a crabby old goat who'd throw the teapot at his servants (of course a guy like that in the 40s would have had servants) if his morning boiled egg wasn't done just right.

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37 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Well, as far as I can tell, Bosley Crowther hated just about everything, at least anything even remotely noir.  I imagine him as a crabby old goat who'd throw the teapot at his servants (of course a guy like that in the 40s would have had servants) if his morning boiled egg wasn't done just right.

LOL

Yep, or put another way, IF Crowther himself could have acted at all, he'd have been perfectly cast in the role Monte Woolley played in the film The Man Who Came to Dinner.

(...and which as I'm sure you know MissW, was a character based on another persnickety NYC-based critic, Alexander Woollcott, and who I understand actually played the part for a while on Broadway)

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Sorry to be so late to the party, but I've always liked "The Lady From Shanghai".  Despite their marriage being on the rocks at the time, I thought Rita Hayworth and Orson Welles did a great job in showing their versatility as thespians.  I still can't get over how people back in the 40's and even today get apoplectic about Hayworth's hair in this picture.  She still looked "good enough to eat", as the saying goes.  It almost smacks as a double standard due to gender.  Men can look vastly different from picture to picture depending on the role they're playing, and you might chalk that up to a great makeup artist, and people might not bat an eye about what they look like, but a woman to change the way she looks from film to film?  Blasphemy!

Looking forward to this weekend's edition of Noir Alley.   "The Sign of the Ram" doesn't quite ring a bell with me, so it could be a first-time viewing for yours truly.  

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Re: The Lady From Shanghai.  While I wouldn't say that this was my favorite film noir, or even my favorite Orson Welles film, I do watch it on occasion.  I think aesthetically, it is an interesting film.  I find Welles' "accent" distracting.  I wish he'd just used his normal voice, I don't think it would have mattered much.  Rita's gorgeous face is also a highlight.  Of course, the mirror scene is fantastic. 

To switch gears...

I just watched the Noir Alley presentation of The Killing.  I have no idea when this was on originally, but I just watched it a few days ago.  I loved it.

I'm not the biggest fan of Stanley Kubrick.  I find many of his films to be overly long, tedious and just blah.  He also doesn't tend to make films in genres that I typically enjoy.  I hate The Shining.  It's such a boring movie to me.  I did enjoy Lolita, however, so all is not lost.  I also plan on watching A Clockwork Orange at some point because I heard about how disturbing it was.  Anyway, I went into The Killing with the expectation that this would be another tedious film.  I am happy to report that I was wrong.  

In this film, Sterling Hayden plays Clay, a career criminal who plans to go straight and marry his fiancee, Coleen Gray.  He plans one last heist, so that he and Gray can start their lives together in style. His plan involves stealing $2 million ($18.5 mil in 2020) from the counting room at a racetrack during a featured race when massive bets will be pouring in.  He assembles a team of people to help him in his heist: A corrupt cop (Ted de Corsia) who will pick-up and deliver the stolen money; the cashier at the betting window (Elisha Cook Jr) who will help Clay gain access to the backroom; a lunatic sharp-shooter (Timothy Carey) who will shoot the favored horse and distract the crowd; a wrestler (Kola Kwariani) who will start a bar brawl and provide another distraction, allowing Clay to slip into the counting room, and the track bartender (Joe Sawyer).   This is such a meticulously planned heist, one of the best that I've seen in a movie.

Leading up to the heist, Elisha Cook Jr has made the mistake of telling wife Marie Windsor about the upcoming robbery.  She's a bitter woman who despises her husband for not providing her with a wealthy lifestyle.  Windsor's character is a total b---- (for lack of a better word).  She regularly browbeats Elisha Cook Jr. and puts him down.  Meanwhile, she's carrying on an affair with the attractive Val Cannon (Vince Edwards).  When Windsor learns that her husband really is participating in a heist that will net them a sizeable income, she tells her lover.  Together, the two come up with a scheme to rob Windsor's husband and the other men of the the $2 mil they steal from the racetrack.

The entire narrative is set-up in a non-linear fashion.  We see a scene unfold from the perspective of one character, and then see the scene that led up to the scene prior.  Or we'll see the action play out from one character's perspective, but another character is seen in the background.  The next seen will show how the character in the background arrived at his spot, prior to the action of the previous scene unfolding. A narrator was added to somewhat keep the timeline straight.  Kubrick didn't want the narration.  I'm personally happy that the narration is present, because it did assist in keeping the scenes straight for me.  Had the narration been absent, I think the film would have been very confusing.

This is the second film I'd seen with Timothy Carey.  The first film I saw him in, I think was Crime Wave also with Sterling Hayden. This guy was a nut, but I find him to also be very interesting, if also frightening. Kola Kwariani's dialogue was unintelligible.  But that doesn't even matter.  We don't need to know what he's saying.  All we know is that he's big and is supposed to start a bar brawl to distract the group and racetrack police from the action going on in the lobby. Elisha Cook Jr is so good at playing the intense, sometimes psychotic, whimpering coward.  He is so cuckolded by Marie Windsor, made even better by their height difference (Elisha Cook Jr's 5'5 to Marie Windsor's 5'9).  Vince Edwards was kind of cute, I was somewhat rooting for him to make it with Marie Windsor; but at the same time, I love it when the heists are pulled off successfully. 

I love heist movies, especially 40s-60s heist movies, and The Killing is one of the best that I've seen.  I think I enjoyed it more than The Asphalt Jungle, which I also loved.

I am eagerly awaiting Barnes & Noble's annual Criterion sale (starts July 10) so that I can add The Killing to my collection.

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34 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Re: The Lady From Shanghai.  While I wouldn't say that this was my favorite film noir, or even my favorite Orson Welles film, I do watch it on occasion.  I think aesthetically, it is an interesting film.  I find Welles' "accent" distracting.  I wish he'd just used his normal voice, I don't think it would have mattered much.  Rita's gorgeous face is also a highlight.  Of course, the mirror scene is fantastic. 

To switch gears...

I just watched the Noir Alley presentation of The Killing.  I have no idea when this was on originally, but I just watched it a few days ago.  I loved it.

I'm not the biggest fan of Stanley Kubrick.  I find many of his films to be overly long, tedious and just blah.  He also doesn't tend to make films in genres that I typically enjoy.  I hate The Shining.  It's such a boring movie to me.  I did enjoy Lolita, however, so all is not lost.  I also plan on watching A Clockwork Orange at some point because I heard about how disturbing it was.  Anyway, I went into The Killing with the expectation that this would be another tedious film.  I am happy to report that I was wrong.  

In this film, Sterling Hayden plays Clay, a career criminal who plans to go straight and marry his fiancee, Coleen Gray.  He plans one last heist, so that he and Gray can start their lives together in style. His plan involves stealing $2 million ($18.5 mil in 2020) from the counting room at a racetrack during a featured race when massive bets will be pouring in.  He assembles a team of people to help him in his heist: A corrupt cop (Ted de Corsia) who will pick-up and deliver the stolen money; the cashier at the betting window (Elisha Cook Jr) who will help Clay gain access to the backroom; a lunatic sharp-shooter (Timothy Carey) who will shoot the favored horse and distract the crowd; a wrestler (Kola Kwariani) who will start a bar brawl and provide another distraction, allowing Clay to slip into the counting room, and the track bartender (Joe Sawyer).   This is such a meticulously planned heist, one of the best that I've seen in a movie.

Leading up to the heist, Elisha Cook Jr has made the mistake of telling wife Marie Windsor about the upcoming robbery.  She's a bitter woman who despises her husband for not providing her with a wealthy lifestyle.  Windsor's character is a total b---- (for lack of a better word).  She regularly browbeats Elisha Cook Jr. and puts him down.  Meanwhile, she's carrying on an affair with the attractive Val Cannon (Vince Edwards).  When Windsor learns that her husband really is participating in a heist that will net them a sizeable income, she tells her lover.  Together, the two come up with a scheme to rob Windsor's husband and the other men of the the $2 mil they steal from the racetrack.

The entire narrative is set-up in a non-linear fashion.  We see a scene unfold from the perspective of one character, and then see the scene that led up to the scene prior.  Or we'll see the action play out from one character's perspective, but another character is seen in the background.  The next seen will show how the character in the background arrived at his spot, prior to the action of the previous scene unfolding. A narrator was added to somewhat keep the timeline straight.  Kubrick didn't want the narration.  I'm personally happy that the narration is present, because it did assist in keeping the scenes straight for me.  Had the narration been absent, I think the film would have been very confusing.

This is the second film I'd seen with Timothy Carey.  The first film I saw him in, I think was Crime Wave also with Sterling Hayden. This guy was a nut, but I find him to also be very interesting, if also frightening. Kola Kwariani's dialogue was unintelligible.  But that doesn't even matter.  We don't need to know what he's saying.  All we know is that he's big and is supposed to start a bar brawl to distract the group and racetrack police from the action going on in the lobby. Elisha Cook Jr is so good at playing the intense, sometimes psychotic, whimpering coward.  He is so cuckolded by Marie Windsor, made even better by their height difference (Elisha Cook Jr's 5'5 to Marie Windsor's 5'9).  Vince Edwards was kind of cute, I was somewhat rooting for him to make it with Marie Windsor; but at the same time, I love it when the heists are pulled off successfully. 

I love heist movies, especially 40s-60s heist movies, and The Killing is one of the best that I've seen.  I think I enjoyed it more than The Asphalt Jungle, which I also loved.

I am eagerly awaiting Barnes & Noble's annual Criterion sale (starts July 10) so that I can add The Killing to my collection.

You might want to check out Timothy Carey in Neo Noir The Killing Of A Chinese Bookie, and Vince Edwards in Noir City of Fear (1959) and Neo Noir The Police Connection (1973). Now the one I really really really want to see is .....

Island Women Poster

Where Marie Windsor and  Marilee Earle are fighting over who is going to get "lucky" with Vince Edwards.

The Girl in Black Stockings Poster

I believe Marie's last Classial Noir was The Girl In Black Stockings and color Noir The Unholy Wife.

The Unholy Wife Poster

 

 

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1 minute ago, cigarjoe said:

You might want to check out Timothy Carey in Neo Noir The Killing Of A Chinese Bookie, and Vince Edwards in Noir City of Fear (1959) and Neo Noir The Police Connection (1973). Now the one I really really really want to see is .....

Island Women Poster

Where Marie Windsor and  Marilee Earle are fighting over who is going to get "lucky" with Vince Edwards.

The Girl in Black Stockings Poster

I believe Marie's last Classial Noir was The Girl In Black Stockings and color Noir The Unholy Wife.

The Unholy Wife Poster

 

Thanks! I'll have to check these out.  I am especially interested in Island Women.  I love the poster!   The Unholy Wife poster is pretty amazing too: "Half-Angel, Half-Devil, she made him half-a-man!" 

Re: Timothy Carey.  I don't really know what to make of him.  He's a very interesting screen presence.  And his way of speaking through clenched teeth is odd, but works for his screen persona.

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12 minutes ago, speedracer5 said:

Re: Timothy Carey.  I don't really know what to make of him.  He's a very interesting screen presence.  And his way of speaking through clenched teeth is odd, but works for his screen persona.

He was one one the first actors you really  notice that came out of the Beatnik or "beat" generation. Ray Danton is another.

 

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Swamp Women (1956) is considered an adventure-noir by wikipedia.  Interesting little movie staring Marie Windsor, Beverly Garland and Touch (Mike) Connors.  It's in color.

Swampwomen.jpg

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17 minutes ago, TheCid said:

Swamp Women (1956) is considered an adventure-noir by wikipedia.  Interesting little movie staring Marie Windsor, Beverly Garland and Touch (Mike) Connors.  It's in color.

Swampwomen.jpg

Seen it wasn't worth the time it took to watch it. lol

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