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2 hours ago, TomJH said:

original-film-title-danger-signal-englis

"Repeat after me, my dear, All men bad, Massaging female psychiatrist body parts good."

Well sure, there's THAT caption Tom, ;)  but how another one like: "Ya know Honey, I'm thinking bangs would definitely help conceal this forehead of yours here."

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13 hours ago, TomJH said:

 

"Repeat after me, my dear, All men bad, Massaging female psychiatrist body parts good."

MV5BNmYyYzgzZTAtYWQ4MC00OWUxLWE2NWMtZmM3

"Oh, yes, I agree. I so, sooooo agree."

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How did they get that opening shot of Nocturne?

Is that what's called a tracking shot?

It seems an extreme distance to travel, or would a zoom lens be able to zoom that far?

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Wasn't planning on watching Gilda again, just Eddie's intro, but got sucked into it anyway.  Never been one my favorite movies.  

Personally I much prefer Affair in Trinidad, which I guess was supposed to sort of be a  remake of Gilda.  AIT was made in 1952 after Rita Hayworth's ex-husband, Aga Khan, had spent all her money.  Rita does reprise Blame it on Mame in AITAIT is one of the Martini Movies on DVD.  They were Columbia movies and paired with martini recipes.  It is the only one I ever purchased.

Based on Eddie's outro, if you accept it, AIT is much more straightforward and shorter.  Was surprised to discover that Hayworth was actually Hispanic.  Actually half Irish and half Spanish.

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Wow, I can't believe there aren't any posts here yet about Gilda.  Isn't it one of the most famous noirs ever?  Maybe even one of the most famous classic Hollywood '40s films ever  ?  Crickets?

Ok,  I'll just dive in and say,  I 've always thought Gilda was over-rated.  And I've seen it enough times for that to be a fair assessmet -  it's not like I just watched it once and didn't get it.  Last night must have been at least my 3rd or 4th viewing, and I still don't get it.

Good things about Gilda: the way it looks.  The way Rita Hayworth looks, for that matter.  I do enjoy that first scene, Johnny throwing dice in a seedy alley,  George Macready  (Ballin) turning up at just the right moment to save Johnny's life,  that cane of his,  the bizarre conversation they have.  That's probably the grittiest setting in the whole movie, after that it's the ritzy casino /nightclub and Ballin's luxurious mansion.   But I like those too, they do a good job of recreating the ritzy casino/nightclub etc.  I love Rita's outfits.   Of course, Rita, like Marilyn, would look great in a potatoe sack.    The visuals of Gilda are fun, they're one thing that make it enjoyable to watch.

Also, the cast:  I like them all, they're all good, from George Macready's semi-psycho, rich, controlling, witty club owner  (and presumably ex-Nazi?)  to Rita's incredibly beautiful, sad, confused Gilda  (is there a better example of a "love object" in all filmdom?)  to Glenn Ford's furious, fuming, obsessed, Johnny, who, as Rita pointed out, is almost as crazy as her husband,  right down to that Argentinian cop who keeps showing up everywhere, dispensing love advice to Johnny when he isn't questioning him about "tungsten",  and of course, the philosophical wash room attendant who plays a crucial role in the film's climactic finale.  He's no peasant.

I think the lovely look of the film, and the great cast, are the reasons why I still watch a film I  in many ways don't like; they're the saving graces of Gilda.

So what's my problem with this film?  Well, damn, it's so over-wrought.  The "love - hate" thing between Johnny and Gilda just becomes tiresome to me after a while. How many times can Johnny give in to his "love" for Gilda, only to  push her away and be even more cruel to her?  Yes, yes, I know everyone's going to say  "Hey, that's what the movie's all about,  obsessive love that turns bitter and crazy when combined with jealousy  (which of course obsessive love always turns to)".  But it just becomes repetitive and annoying to me;  how  many times is Johnny going to scowl at Gilda,  deliberating insulting and confusing her?  And why does he care so much about whether she's faithful to Ballin or not?    Well, of course we all know the answer to that:  it's a menage a troi,  according to Eddie and the highest authorities.  Ballin's got at least as much of a thing for Johnny as he has for Gilda,  and maybe Johnny feels the same way.

All of which makes for an extremely melodramatic, messy love triangle that becomes increasingly fraught with extreme emotions which (to me, anyway) ultimately descends into something approaching silliness.  I just get tired of all the push -pull  "hate is such an exciting emotion" stuff.

Also -  at not quite 2 hours,  Gilda's lengthy enough , and I suppose we don't need it to be any longer --but still, just a little more background information on the earlier relationship between Johnny and Gilda, the one that happens before the movie even begins, before they see each other in that admittedly wonderful  "Me?.....Sure,  I'm decent"  scene,  would be helpful.  We never really know what happened before, we're left to infer from bits of dialogue between the two.  Was Johnny insanely jealous back then?  Did Gilda drive him crazy, drive him into leaving her, by being an incorrigible flirt?  If they were so madly in love, what exactly happened to end their pre-Mundson relationship?  We have to figure it out.  Maybe those two character flaws,  Gilda's flirtatious nature plus Johnny's raging jealousy.  Terrible combination. But I would actually appreciate just one short flashback, just a few minutes of the time before, when they were together,  to give me a little more insight into this masochistic couple, and why and when they became that way.

Anyway,  blahblah, enough I guess.  If I was asked to be briefer, and sum up all of the above into one sentence,  I'd say, I lose patience with the over-the-top "love is so close to hate" etc. emotionalism of the story.  I know some find it fascinating, but I don't.

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9 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Wow, I can't believe there aren't any posts here yet about Gilda.  Isn't it one of the most famous noirs ever?  Maybe even one of the most famous classic Hollywood '40s films ever  ?  Crickets?

Ok,  I'll just dive in and say,  I 've always thought Gilda was over-rated.  And I've seen it enough times for that to be a fair assessmet -  it's not like I just watched it once and didn't get it.  Last night must have been at least my 3rd or 4th viewing, and I still don't get it.

Good things about Gilda: the way it looks.  The way Rita Hayworth looks, for that matter.  I do enjoy that first scene, Johnny throwing dice in a seedy alley,  George Macready  (Ballin) turning up at just the right moment to save Johnny's life,  that cane of his,  the bizarre conversation they have.  That's probably the grittiest setting in the whole movie, after that it's the ritzy casino /nightclub and Ballin's luxurious mansion.   But I like those too, they do a good job of recreating the ritzy casino/nightclub etc.  I love Rita's outfits.   Of course, Rita, like Marilyn, would look great in a potatoe sack.    The visuals of Gilda are fun, they're one thing that make it enjoyable to watch.

Also, the cast:  I like them all, they're all good, from George Macready's semi-psycho, rich, controlling, witty club owner  (and presumably ex-Nazi?)  to Rita's incredibly beautiful, sad, confused Gilda  (is there a better example of a "love object" in all filmdom?)  to Glenn Ford's furious, fuming, obsessed, Johnny, who, as Rita pointed out, is almost as crazy as her husband,  right down to that Argentinian cop who keeps showing up everywhere, dispensing love advice to Johnny when he isn't questioning him about "tungsten",  and of course, the philosophical wash room attendant who plays a crucial role in the film's climactic finale.  He's no peasant.

I think the lovely look of the film, and the great cast, are the reasons why I still watch a film I  in many ways don't like; they're the saving graces of Gilda.

So what's my problem with this film?  Well, damn, it's so over-wrought.  The "love 'hate" thing between Johnny and Gilda just becomes tiresome to me after a while. How many times can Johnny give in to his "love" for Gilda, only to  push her away and be even more cruel to her?  Yes, yes, I know everyone's going to say  "Hey, that's what the movie's all about,  obsessive love that turns bitter and crazy when combined with jealousy  (which of course obsessive love always turns to)".  But it just becomes repetitive and annoying to me;  how  many times is Johnny going to scowl at Gilda,  deliberating insulting and confusing her?  And why does he care so much about whether she's faithful to Ballin or not?    Well, of course we all know the answer to that:  it's a menage a troi,  according to Eddie and the highest authorities.  Ballin's got at least as much of a thing for Johnny as he has for Gilda,  and maybe Johnny feels the same way.

All of which makes for an extremely melodramatic, messy love triangle that becomes increasingly fraught with extreme emotions which (to me, anyway) ultimately descends into something approaching silliness.  I just get tired of all the push -pull  "hate is such an exciting emotion" stuff.

Also -  at not quite 2 hours,  Gilda's lengthy enough , and I suppose we don't need it to be any longer --but still, just a little more background information on the earlier relationship between Johnny and Gilda, the one that happens before the movie even begins, before they see each other in that admittedly wonderful  "Me?.....Sure,  I'm decent"  scene,  would be helpful.  We never really know what happened before, we'll left to infer from bits of dialogue between the two.  Was Johnny insanely jealous back then?  Did Gilda drive him crazy, drive him into leaving her, by being an incorrigible flirt?  If they were so madly in love, what exactly happened to end their pre-Mundson relationship?  We have to figure it out.  Maybe those two character flaws,  Gilda's flirtatious nature plus Johnny's raging jealousy.  Terrible combination.

Anyway,  blahblah, enough I guess.  If I was asked to be briefer, and sum up all of the above into one sentence,  I'd say, I lose patience with the over-the-top "love is so close to hate" etc. emotionalism of the story.  I know some find it fascinating, but I don't.

You must have been typing as I posted.  Anyway, I agree with the love-hate thing being tiresome and talked about too much.  The movie is too long, which is one reason why I prefer Affair in Trinidad.  Not too sure I buy the homosexual aspects that Eddie mentioned.  He is supposed to be the expert and did reference Evelyn Keyes as the "authority."  Sort of muddies up the movie though and will probably keep me from watching it in the future.

Affair in Trinidad Poster

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Gilda. Everyone's good in the film which, along with the film's production design and overall slickness, helps to make it very watchable. And Hayworth, of course, was at the peak of her beauty as she played this declasse screen goddess. The problem, though, is that no character in the film is likeable. The filmmakers also tried to have it both ways, too, with that ending, in which the title character turns out to be a tease rather than a tramp. I also agree with MissW that watching an ongoing "love-hate" relationship with all the lousy things that one participant will do to the other becomes tedious after a while when that is all the story has to offer.

Gilda does have, though, one of the greatest introductory closeup shots ever taken of a star. Hayworth would never again have quite the same impact on the screen as she does in this film.

sVSEDxB.gif

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Thanks to misswonderly3's chiding, I'll play too 😉!

Overall, I like "Gilda".  It's got a familiar noir vibe with great dialog to go with the costume/styles of modern day Buenos Aires in 1945, even though location shooting wasn't done back then.  Eddie Muller talked about the standout performances from Hayworth, Ford, and Macready, and justifiably so, but the secondary character I really liked was Steve Garay as Pio, the bathroom attendant/after hours bartender.

I agree that the love/hate relationship between Gilda and Johnny droned on and on and did get tiresome.  However, I've seen "Gilda" many times, so maybe the familiarity with the script is why the scenes involving Hayworth and Ford tend to wear a little thin.  But what I really didn't like was the ending of the film where Joseph Calleia explains to Johnny that everything Gilda did was 'just for show' and that all she was doing was trying to push his buttons as good as he seemingly pushed hers.  Ford gives in too quickly in wanting Hayworth to take him along with her as she goes back to New York, which seemed far-fetched since he spent most of the picture loathing her.  Everything was wrapped up at the end with a nice bow, but it happened too quickly, as if the ending were rushed.  Gilda's line near the end of the film when she laughed and said to Johnny, "See?  No one has to apologize, because we were both stinkers!".  Yep...that sums up my thought about the ending of "Gilda".  Otherwise, I would rate this movie at least a 9 out of 10.  As it is, I give it an 8.

Looking forward to next week's offering, "They Won't Believe Me".  It too has an ending that would want to make someone take one of those cartoon mallets and beat themselves about their heads!  Still, it's a cool movie with a nice cast, so I'll definitely be watching.

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33 minutes ago, midwestan said:

Looking forward to next week's offering, "They Won't Believe Me".  It too has an ending that would want to make someone take one of those cartoon mallets and beat themselves about their heads!  Still, it's a cool movie with a nice cast, so I'll definitely be watching.

I see that They Won't Believe Me is listed by TCM as 90 minutes. Hopefully that will be the case. Previous versions of the film shown on the channel have been 79 minutes.

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1 hour ago, TomJH said:

I see that They Won't Believe Me is listed by TCM as 90 minutes. Hopefully that will be the case. Previous versions of the film shown on the channel have been 79 minutes.

Good, I've been waiting to see that longer version.  As far as misswonderly3 and Gilda  "Crickets"  I seen it way to many times.  Now if they found that lost footage of the part they filmed  after she says her zipper is stuck then I may give it another looksee. 😎

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I didn't even bother to watch Gilda. Seen it a number of times and it never did much for me.

It's an okay flick, just never got into it. Rita is in fine form and Macready is creepily cold as

the villain of the piece. Glenn Ford's character is kind of a tiresome jerk. I wish someone

would shut him up or just bump him off, but then you wouldn't have much of a picture.

And that waiter kum philosopher dude, Captain Peepee or whatever his name is. God is he

annoying. Take the orders and shut the **** up. The  first go round isn't too bad, but once

you know the plot it loses a lot of interest. And Glenn spending half the picture trying to

figure out if Rita is screwing other guys, pretending to screw other guys, not screwing

other guys, or screwing herself. Dull. Dull. Dull. I'm sure everyone concerned gave it the old

college try, but they just came up woefully short. 

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14 hours ago, misswonderly3 said:

...I think the lovely look of the film, and the great cast, are the reasons why I still watch a film I  in many ways don't like; they're the saving graces of Gilda.

 

There's one more thing that saves the film for me MissW, and besides the lovely look of the film and the great cast as you mentioned here.

I think the film actually has quite a bit of snappy dialogue interspersed throughout it, also.

(...and which even some of the supporting cast get to deliver, and not just the three principals)

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(Spoiler)

Like DEAD RECKONING, GILDA is one of those films noir that borders on being self-parody. 
Maybe I would like it a little bit better if- at the very end- when the evil Nazi husband returns from faking his death in the plane crash over the sea, he’s draped with seaweed and had a couple of crabs hanging from his ears- and maybe when he reaches into his pocket for the gun he pulls out a snapping mackerel instead....

 

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2 hours ago, LornaHansonForbes said:

(Spoiler)

Like DEAD RECKONING, GILDA is one of those films noir that borders on being self-parody. 
Maybe I would like it a little bit better if- at the very end- when the evil Nazi husband returns from faking his death in the plane crash over the sea, he’s draped with seaweed and had a couple of crabs hanging from his ears- and maybe when he reaches into his pocket for the gun he pulls out a snapping mackerel instead....

 

I actually like Dead Reckoning a lot and don't see it as close to self-parody.

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7 minutes ago, ElCid said:

I actually like Dead Reckoning a lot and don't see it as close to self-parody.

I don't dislike DEAD RECKONING, AND MAYBE SELF-PARODY (oops, caps lock) isn't the mot just- it feel like it is somewhat conscious of the fact that it was a "genre film" even though the noir genre had not been formally defined yet, it's making a (noticeable, but not heavy-handed) effort to hit all the "detective picture" marks in a way that I find bordering on tongue-in-cheek, but most certainly not bad  by any stretch.

It almost has a slightly DEAD MEN DON'T WEAR PLAID feel....as if the film was made years and years alter, as an homage.

but no, it's a fun film and one i'd much rather see than GILDA.

 

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15 minutes ago, ElCid said:

I actually like Dead Reckoning a lot and don't see it as close to self-parody.

I like Dead Reckoning but a lot of the film's tough guy dialogue makes me almost chuckle because it sounds so stereotypical. Bogart is solid, of course, and the film looks great but some of the time when some of the characters open their mouths I wish that different dialogue was coming out of them, dialogue that didn't sound quite so self consciously hard edged.

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Zachary Scott, in Danger Signal, is rather handsome when he’s serious. It’s only when he smiles, with those large teeth, that he looks so villainous it borders on comical.  There wasn’t much character development to Mona Freeman’s character Anne as the younger sister who returns home sweet and wholesome, only to turn into a Jezebel. Anne is more sexually sophisticated than her naive sister Hilda. Eddie Muller made his feelings about the ending clear: he hated it. Okay, Zachary Scott’s demise wasn’t drawn out. But when he trips, and his body hits the rocky ledge, and then bounces into the sea, catharsis is achieved.  Considering the Code, it was quite graphic, but then again he was the bad guy.   

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15 hours ago, Vautrin said:

I didn't even bother to watch Gilda. Seen it a number of times and it never did much for me.

It's an okay flick, just never got into it. Rita is in fine form and Macready is creepily cold as

the villain of the piece. Glenn Ford's character is kind of a tiresome jerk. I wish someone

would shut him up or just bump him off, but then you wouldn't have much of a picture.

And that waiter kum philosopher dude, Captain Peepee or whatever his name is. God is he

annoying. Take the orders and shut the **** up. The  first go round isn't too bad, but once

you know the plot it loses a lot of interest. And Glenn spending half the picture trying to

figure out if Rita is screwing other guys, pretending to screw other guys, not screwing

other guys, or screwing herself. Dull. Dull. Dull. I'm sure everyone concerned gave it the old

college try, but they just came up woefully short. 

I pretty well agree with everything you say (particularly the Glenn Ford character being a jerk part) but Gilda was, of course, a huge hit at the box office right after the war.

And, my God, when Rita sensually moves around on a swanky dance floor or does a "naughty" one glove strip tease . . .

gilda9.jpg

. . . is there anyone who can take their eyes away?

If there is only one reason this film deserves a repeat viewing it's for the sight of Rita Hayworth at the zenith of her career as a sex goddess. She really was remarkable.

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23 minutes ago, TomJH said:

I pretty well agree with everything you say (particularly the Glenn Ford character being a jerk part) but Gilda was, of course, a huge hit at the box office right after the war.

And, my God, when Rita sensually moves around on a swanky dance floor or does a "naughty" one glove strip tease . . .

gilda9.jpg

. . . is there anyone who can take their eyes away?

If there is only one reason this film deserves a repeat viewing it's for the sight of Rita Hayworth at the zenith of her career as a sex goddess. She really was remarkable.

Interestingly this was her first major role according to Eddie although she had been in a lot of movies before Gilda.

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17 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Interestingly this was her first major role according to Eddie although she had been in a lot of movies before Gilda.

Eddie really said Gilda was Hayworth "first major role"?       At first I suspected he meant first major role for Columbia,  but even that doesn't add up since Hayworth made two films  with Fred Astaire for the studio,  You'll Never Get Rich and You Were Never Lovelier,  prior to Gilda.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, ElCid said:

Interestingly this was her first major role according to Eddie although she had been in a lot of movies before Gilda.

Cover Girl had been a big hit for Hayworth and Gene Kelly prior to Gilda. If Eddie said that he was wrong.

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