Noir Alley

[Hibi]

13 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

It appears you still don't understand what "uncut" means.    The version TCM showed was released by the studio.    As you note THEY (the studio)  re-edited the film and re-release it.  When TCM says "uncut" they mean that they do NOT cut the film OR the film is NOT cut for content\censorship reasons (to match the over-the-air standard and the most common reason for a film to be "cut").

Thus the question here is :  Why didn't TCM lease the initial \ longer version.      That is a good  question and one I wish TCM would address. 

 

I KNOW WHAT UNCUT MEANS. The point I was trying to make was TCM keeps showing this recut version when the original cut is readily available. So they ARE showing an edited version of the film. I KNOW they didnt edit it, but it's still the edited version. So it's definitely not uncut.

[Hibi]

11 hours ago, speedracer5 said:

I believe her accident was attributed to a mishap with one of those large beauty salon hair dryers (not sure if the smaller handheld ones existed in the 40s?).  Supposedly a hair dryer fell on her and caused damage to her head and legs, culminating with brain surgery. Her accident led to her becoming an alcoholic and developing encephalitis, caused by her alcoholism. It was rumored however, that the REAL cause of her injuries was a gangster boyfriend who had beat her.  Very sad life.

When I see Rita Johnson all I think of is her constant use of the word "beguiling" in The Major and the Minor.  It's just too beguiling! 

Yes, very sad. I had no idea. Read up more about it yesterday.

[Hibi]

11 hours ago, Vautrin said:

Well, at least my memory is working. Hayward tells Young that Trenton wants to marry her and Young

replies What's wrong with that? Nothing she says, if you like drive-ins, 35 cent movies and longgg walks

in the park. Ouch. I thinks it's a dodge to say that they ran the reissued film and not the original version,

especially as 15 minutes was cut out of a 95 minute movie. 

 

Deleted 

LOL. I get it now. There was another scene at a concert with Hayward that was completely cut and the first restaurant scene with Greer was edited down. Am sure there were others.

[jamesjazzguitar]

3 hours ago, Hibi said:

I KNOW WHAT UNCUT MEANS. The point I was trying to make was TCM keeps showing this recut version when the original cut is readily available. So they ARE showing an edited version of the film. I KNOW they didnt edit it, but it's still the edited version. So it's definitely not uncut.

Are you sure the original cut is "readily available" as a good "clean" version;   E.g.  NOT a poor quality public domain version?    

If that is the case then yes,  shame on TCM programmers for not getting access to that version (and not just for TWBM but other films as well).

Like I said  TCM programmers can do a better job:

1) being aware there were multiple versions \ releases.

2)  Seeking the "best" one  (which generally would be the longest one as long as the quality of the print is good).

3) making sure which one the copywrite holder is leasing to them and getting the 'best' one if available.  

 

 

[TomJH]

For what it's worth I did see the longer version of They Won't Believe Me and the quality of the image was rather mediocre, not looking as clean as the shortened version that TCM shows. I wonder if that means there are no quality images of the longer version.

[Hibi]

3 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Are you sure the original cut is "readily available" as a good "clean" version;   E.g.  NOT a poor quality public domain version?    

If that is the case then yes,  shame on TCM programmers for not getting access to that version (and not just for TWBM but other films as well).

Like I said  TCM programmers can do a better job:

1) being aware there were multiple versions \ releases.

2)  Seeking the "best" one  (which generally would be the longest one as long as the quality of the print is good).

3) making sure which one the copywrite holder is leasing to them and getting the 'best' one if available.  

 

 

According to the reviewer the longer version is available on DVD. I will do a search to see if its so.

[Hibi]

Well, so far, I've only been able to find Region 2 (Europe) DVD's for sale of the longer version. There are DVD-R's being sold on e-bay. If Amazon sold it, they aren't selling it now. Showing public domain copies of films hasn't stopped TCM before in showing a film. I wonder if there are rights issues with the longer version?

[cigarjoe]

Speaking of the longer version, didn't Eddie (or maybe Robert) mention that there was a longer the first time it was shown on TCM?

[jamesjazzguitar]

1 hour ago, Hibi said:

Well, so far, I've only been able to find Region 2 (Europe) DVD's for sale of the longer version. There are DVD-R's being sold on e-bay. If Amazon sold it, they aren't selling it now. Showing public domain copies of films hasn't stopped TCM before in showing a film. I wonder if there are rights issues with the longer version?

I wonder if those European DVD are bootleg versions.   (which would be a reason Amazon wouldn't sell them).      I doubt there are right-issues with the longer version.   What is more likely is that the owner (studio) doesn't have this version readily available for leasing in a digital format.      Thus everyone (both TCM and the studio), take the easy way out leasing the "cut" one.

TCM has shown public domain copies;  e.g. the Paramount film Lombard film Swing High, Swing Low;    The next day there were a bunch of complaints at this forum asking why TCM showed such a poor quality print.    

[Vautrin]

Just now, Hibi said:

LOL. I get it now. There was another scene at a concert with Hayward that was completely cut and the first restaurant scene with Greer was edited down. Am sure there were others.

I'm sure most people would like to see the original version, at least once,  even if the visuals are

not that good. I'm a little surprised that Eddie didn't make mention of the cuts made to it.

[Hibi]

15 hours ago, cigarjoe said:

Speaking of the longer version, didn't Eddie (or maybe Robert) mention that there was a longer the first time it was shown on TCM?

It couldn't have been Eddie as he's never presented it before.

[Hibi]

15 hours ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

I wonder if those European DVD are bootleg versions.   (which would be a reason Amazon wouldn't sell them).      I doubt there are right-issues with the longer version.   What is more likely is that the owner (studio) doesn't have this version readily available for leasing in a digital format.      Thus everyone (both TCM and the studio), take the easy way out leasing the "cut" one.

TCM has shown public domain copies;  e.g. the Paramount film Lombard film Swing High, Swing Low;    The next day there were a bunch of complaints at this forum asking why TCM showed such a poor quality print.    

Well, I wouldn't complain! LOL.

[cigarjoe]

16 minutes ago, Hibi said:

It couldn't have been Eddie as he's never presented it before.

Ok, then it probably was Robert Osborn that mentioned it when he presented it.

[cinemaspeak59]

I liked the ending in They Won’t Believe Me.  The production code put the filmmakers in a bind.  Having Robert Young’s character, a philanderer and liar, walk away unpunished may have been problematic.  The three central women were different temperamentally. They weren’t saints, but within them was a moral compass that malfunctioned a bit because they fell in love.  I must point out Jane Greer’s graceful, poignant portrayal. It’s hard to imagine this woman could play one of the most legendary femme fatales in movie history.

[jamesjazzguitar]

29 minutes ago, cinemaspeak59 said:

I liked the ending in They Won’t Believe Me.  The production code put the filmmakers in a bind.  Having Robert Young’s character, a philanderer and liar, walk away unpunished may have been problematic.  The three central women were different temperamentally. They weren’t saints, but within them was a moral compass that malfunctioned a bit because they fell in love.  I must point out Jane Greer’s graceful, poignant portrayal. It’s hard to imagine this woman could play one of the most legendary femme fatales in movie history.

I don't think there is anything in the Code that would have prevented a philanderer and a liar from walking away unpunished.    How he treated the women (e.g. lying to them), wasn't a crime.     What was a crime were the lies he made to the police and other authorities.    Therefore I have always felt one way to end the film would to have him  found not-guilty for murder but convicted for the various other crimes like making false statements to the police etc..      While he is being taken away it is clear he will only get a year or two in jail for these crimes and Greer will be waiting for him.

But that would have been a romantic ending.      I like the darker (noir) ending.        

 

 

[cigarjoe]

Enjoyed once again Where The Sidewalk Ends one of Fox's "Street Scene Noirs."  It's also one of my favorites, too bad it wasn't shot more on location, it would have ups its creds even more. Eddie was great as expected.

[TomJH]

Where the Sidewalk Ends is a very solid noir with a superior cast,  all giving good accounts of themselves, along with some noteworthy atmospheric black-and-white photography of the big city at night. SPOILER ALERT: I could nit pick a bit about the forced happy ending (well, sort of happy ending anyway). Truth is, I think the film might have been a little more memorable if its chief protagonist, a tired, cynical big city cop of obsessive nature, had achieved a form of redemption by being allowed to follow through on a planned act of self sacrifice.

Nevertheless, I think that Dana Andrews is very impressive here. There are closeups of his face, looking tired, haggard and largely stoic, in which we can still see pain in his eyes. By the way, from the viewpoint of Andrews' career Where The Sidewalk Ends could be renamed Where the Good Films End. If you look at the titles and performances he gave before this film and after it it's almost like two different careers. Andrews gave fine sensitive accounts of himself at the beginning of his career in Swamp Water and, particularly, The Ox Bow Incident before Laura altered his screen persona into a stoic one. Soon after that came The Best Years of Our Lives (possibly Dana's best performance) and Daisy Kenyon, with a surprisingly complex portrayal which, for my money, stole the show from both Joan Crawford and Henry Fonda. It's a shame that after 1950 the actor's good film projects and roles ran out for him.

[cmovieviewer]

Notes on some upcoming films:

On Thursday Oct 8 the primetime theme is '30 Years of the Film Foundation', where TCM is showing films that have been restored.  The lineup includes Detour (1945) at 10 pm ET, which was featured on Noir Alley in March of 2017.  Criterion came out with a restored version of Detour in March of 2019, so TCM should be presenting this version of the film, which is now in pristine condition.  Here is an article on the extensive work that went into the restoration:

http://www.film-foundation.org/detour-janus

This web page also includes a YouTube clip of Eddie's Noir Alley introduction and wrap-up from 2017.

(Eddie has also scheduled a 2nd Noir Alley showing of Detour coming up on December 26.)

On Friday Oct 9 the daytime theme is 'San Francisco Noir', where several Noir films are featured.  Here is the lineup (times are ET):

    7:45a       Nora Prentiss (1947)      (Noir Alley 6-8-2019)
    9:45a       Born to Kill (1947)            (Noir Alley 7-30-2017)
    11:30a    Dark Passage (1947)       (Noir Alley 7-22-2018)
    1:30p       Out of the Past (1947)    (Noir Alley 6-7-2017)
    3:15p       Race Street (1948)
    4:45p       Impact (1949)
    6:45p       The Woman On Pier 13 (1950)

[misswonderly3]

So,  Where the Sidewalk Ends:   Well, I'm glad to say, after my negativity about the previous two Noir Alley offerings,  that I really like this film.  In fact, after seeing it today (I think my third viewing),  I've decided I love  Where the Sidewalk Ends.  I agree with Eddie, who said, if I remember correctly, that it's almost a perfect noir, and certainly a high point in Otto Preminger's illustrious career.  And, for some reason, it's a bit under-rated, not nearly as well-known as other less deserving noirs are  (don't worry, I'm not going to spark an argument by naming any...)

It's got everything - talented, interesting actors, a truly noirish storyline  (and, bonus, not even difficult to follow !), inner moral conflict on the part of the protagonist,  and beautiful, classically noirish settings.  I know they're sets, they're not locations shots.  But that's ok, some of the best noirs were shot on sets.  It's what they do with those sets that counts,  and Otto and company do a glorious job of creating those dark, seedy, mean streets;  seems like almost every scene is shot at night  (or, made to look like night, anyway),  and we get lots of dark back alleys and city skylines.  I love that seedy brownstone apartment building where  the hero throws that fateful punch. We see it several times.   I enjoy seeing that old lady, bowed over her kitchen table,  endless classical music playing on the radio.  I know it was just a set, but I like to think that such buildings existed, and that at least some of them still do.

I love Laura, it's one of my favourite films, certainly one of my favourite Otto Preminger films.  So please nobody take this amiss when I say that Gene Tierney's character in Where the Sidewalk Ends is much more interesting and likable than Laura's in, uh, Laura.  Although, as I just said, I love the film Laura, I never really liked Laura the character all that much, and kind of wondered what all the fuss was about.  Of course her undeniable beauty, for one thing.  And Gene Tierney is just as beautiful in Where the Sidewalk Ends; but she's not only beautiful, she is, to me anyway, a much more developed character than Laura.  She's very vulnerable and sad and sweet.  Her love for her father, for one thing.  I don't know, she just seems more "real",  and therefore more interesting, than she was in Laura. 

I also really enjoy all the character actors in WTSE,  especially Gary Merrill as Tommy Scalisi  (hey, with a name like "Scalisi", how could he not be a bad guy?  It sounds like some kind of skin disease.)  Merrill reminded me a little of Richard Conte in this role.  I thought his performance as the smoothly confident villain was very entertaining, fun to watch.  I also got a kick out of seeing our old friend Neville Brand as one of Scalisi's thugs  ( the sadistic but very entertaining hood in D.O.A.)   Apparently, in real life, Neville Brand was a nice, decent man, very erudite and well-read.  I kept imagining Andrews' character , in the middle of one of their scuffles, demanding Brand if he'd read Portrait of a Lady or something...

Another character actor in WTSE who's a lot of fun is that busy body restaurant lady, where Dana and Gene go to eat a couple of times (but of course, never get to finish their meals.)  She's a riot, trading friendly insults with Mark,  and ordering him to marry Tierney's character.  Ruth Donnelly, who, judging by her filmography, had a pretty formidable career as a character actor.

Saved the best for the last.  Dana Andrews.  I love Dana Andrews.  And I think he's at the top of the "noir actor" list.  I'm pretty sure he was actually in more noirs than Robert Mitchum, for instance.  I like Dana's face, it's a good face.  Not only handsome, but interesting.  And, like another of my favourite noir heros (well, actually anti-hero, much of the time),  Robert Ryan,   Andrews gets across a lot in his eyes.   He's very good at looking despairing without saying anything.  I almost always enjoy anything he's in, even films that I don't think are as good as they ought to be  (such as Beyond a Reasonable Doubt.)   And Andrews very effectively conveys the conflict his character (Mark Dixon) is experiencing when an innocent man is arrested for a killing  ("killing", not "murder") that he committed.  I kind of enjoy all that psychological stuff about his father being a crook , too.  It's those kinds of details that make a character more interesting to me.

Anyway, yeah,  I think this is an exceptional noir.  It deserves to be better-known.

[chaya bat woof woof]

Watching it using TCM later tonight.  Saw just the opening this a.m.

[kingrat]

6 hours ago, TomJH said:

Where the Sidewalk Ends is a very solid noir with a superior cast,  all giving good accounts of themselves, along with some noteworthy atmospheric black-and-white photography of the big city at night. SPOILER ALERT: I could nit pick a bit about the forced happy ending (well, sort of happy ending anyway). Truth is, I think the film might have been a little more memorable if its chief protagonist, a tired, cynical big city cop of obsessive nature, had achieved a form of redemption by being allowed to follow through on a planned act of self sacrifice.

Nevertheless, I think that Dana Andrews is very impressive here. There are closeups of his face, looking tired, haggard and largely stoic, in which we can still see pain in his eyes. By the way, from the viewpoint of Andrews' career Where The Sidewalk Ends could be renamed Where the Good Films End. If you look at the titles and performances he gave before this film and after it it's almost like two different careers. Andrews gave fine sensitive accounts of himself at the beginning of his career in Swamp Water and, particularly, The Ox Bow Incident before Laura altered his screen persona into a stoic one. Soon after that came The Best Years of Our Lives (possibly Dana's best performance) and Daisy Kenyon, with a surprisingly complex portrayal which, for my money, stole the show from both Joan Crawford and Henry Fonda. It's a shame that after 1950 the actor's good film projects and roles ran out for him.

Tom, I just checked out Dana Andrews' filmography at imdb and you're right, the best Dana Andrews films and performances pretty much end with Where the Sidewalk Ends. Alcohol had a great deal to do with the downward turn of his career. It's interesting to note that in Daisy Kenyon he is billed above Henry Fonda. Laura and The Best Years of Our Lives had made him a hot property.

Fans of Dana Andrews need to watch Night Song (1947), which has another of his very best performances. This kind of romantic drama doesn't appeal to all tastes, but Andrews as a blind composer gets to portray the inner guilt and self-loathing he does so well. As a bonus, this has probably the best Merle Oberon performance ever, and Ethel Barrymore and Hoagy Carmichael are solid gold in support.

Where the Sidewalk Ends is full of good supporting performances, all the way down to the unbilled actors, like the inspector who is the superior of Karl Malden and Dana Andrews, and the woman who plays Bert Freed's wife. I like Gary Merrill in just about anything; Ruth Donnelly brings her usual jolt of energy to the screen; Bert Freed is perfectly cast as Andrews' partner; and Tom Tully as Gene Tierney's father is absolutely one of those honest salt-of-the-earth good guys who is nonetheless just annoying enough you don't want to spend a lot of time with him.

While we're saying good things about Dana Andrews, I want to mention what an attractive voice he has.

[Hoganman1]

I agree with MissWonderly3. I loved WHERE THE SIDEWALK ENDS. I'd never seen it before, but it's moved into my top ten favorite noirs.  The acting is superb. One thing I noticed was about the guy who was murdered in the beginning named Morrison. Wasn't he  the announcer for the old Burns and Allen comedy show? Also,  as a big fan of PETER GUNN as a child, I'd never seen Craig Stevens play a "bad guy".  Of course Andrews and Tierney were perfect for their roles and  Gary Merrill  was marvelous as a mob boss. Anyway, the film is great and I look forward to seeing it again.

[TomJH]

1 hour ago, kingrat said:

Tom, I just checked out Dana Andrews' filmography at imdb and you're right, the best Dana Andrews films and performances pretty much end with Where the Sidewalk Ends. Alcohol had a great deal to do with the downward turn of his career. It's interesting to note that in Daisy Kenyon he is billed above Henry Fonda. Laura and The Best Years of Our Lives had made him a hot property.

Fans of Dana Andrews need to watch Night Song (1947), which has another of his very best performances. This kind of romantic drama doesn't appeal to all tastes, but Andrews as a blind composer gets to portray the inner guilt and self-loathing he does so well. As a bonus, this has probably the best Merle Oberon performance ever, and Ethel Barrymore and Hoagy Carmichael are solid gold in support.

Where the Sidewalk Ends is full of good supporting performances, all the way down to the unbilled actors, like the inspector who is the superior of Karl Malden and Dana Andrews, and the woman who plays Bert Freed's wife. I like Gary Merrill in just about anything; Ruth Donnelly brings her usual jolt of energy to the screen; Bert Freed is perfectly cast as Andrews' partner; and Tom Tully as Gene Tierney's father is absolutely one of those honest salt-of-the-earth good guys who is nonetheless just annoying enough you don't want to spend a lot of time with him.

While we're saying good things about Dana Andrews, I want to mention what an attractive voice he has.

I haven't seen Night Song, kingrat, so thanks for the recommendation.

It should be mentioned that one post 1950 Dana Andrews film that does get attention, at least for horror buffs, is an effective chiller he made in Britain, Night of the Demon, also known as Curse of the Demon. A tale of a satanic cult, the horror of the film is largely left to the audience's imagination, not unlike the Val Lewton chillers of the '40s. In fact the film was directed by Jacques Tourneur, who had directed three of the Lewton films. A controversial decision was made to include two images of a special effects demon, over the objections of a  number of the film's participants, including both Tourneur and Andrews. Director Martin Scorcese would later call this artfully conceived little film one of the 11 scariest horror films of all time.

[Vautrin]

I believe Eduardo said that booze and cigs had taken their toll on Dana Andrew's kisser, but he looked

okay to me. He would have been 40 or 41 at the time and he looks his age, but that's all. I always enjoy

seeing arrogant cop Malden prove what an idiot he is by arresting the wrong man, while the audience

knows he's making a dumb mistake, but he just keeps on in his clueless, self-assured way. I wanted to

see some crook put Karl's head in a vise and tighten it until his eyeballs pop out, but I suppose that

wouldn't get pass the censors. You can't always get what you want.

[Hibi]

I'd seen Where the Sidewalk Ends once before, but I'd forgotten a lot of the plot. While I was watching this time,  it slowly fell into place. I agree it deserves to be better known. Of course, due to the code Andrews has to pay, but they gave it a somewhat hopeful ending. (for a  noir anyway). What's on the rest of this month? (after The Racket, I mean).