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1 hour ago, jamesjazzguitar said:

Maybe I was just to used to the Kirk film persona to see him as being a good "fit" for Martha Ivers;      E.g.  we see the character as a teen;  wimpy,  geeky,  clumsy,  with glasses,  etc.

We then see the character,  Kirk,   as an adult;    I just don't see the same teen as reflected by Kirk.    But like I said I have seen so many Kirk-the-man roles that it is hard for me to see Martha rejecting Kirk for Van Heflin (or Kirk not being able to handle himself physically with a man like Heflin).       Kirk as a meek man wasn't very common after this first film   (he is somewhat like that in A Letters to Three Wives).

     

Must beg to differ about Kirk all grown up in TSLOMI -- I thought he did a brilliant job of "tamping" down his natural screen masculinity by showing us the inner Walter O'Neil; I was convinced through the subtleties of Douglas' performance that the "scared little boy" still lurked within.   Van was also excellent in conveying an independent, rugged manliness that the O'Neil character lacked.  I could definitely see why Martha kept longing for Sam!

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Kirk is convincingly meek as Vincent van Gogh in LUST FOR LIFE.   That is, in between those violent spells the poor man suffered from...    

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10 hours ago, Hibi said:

One of several plot lapses. I think they used the downtown location, but did not mean it specifically to BE L.A. in the plot.......

If that was the case then Hibi, then why did the director purposely show a number of shots that specifically show and spotlight the name of Los Angeles on buildings (a bank particularly, I believe) and while she's stumbling around the city looking for David?

Do agree with your first sentence though, as this does appear to be a plot lapse in this film.

(...and especially because once again, it's never said how she could've gotten from D.C. to L.A. while in this state of mind)

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3 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Must beg to differ about Kirk all grown up in TSLOMI -- I thought he did a brilliant job of "tamping" down his natural screen masculinity by showing us the inner Walter O'Neil; I was convinced through the subtleties of Douglas' performance that the "scared little boy" still lurked within.   Van was also excellent in conveying an independent, rugged manliness that the O'Neil character lacked.  I could definitely see why Martha kept longing for Sam!

I didn't say or even imply that Kirk didn't do a fine job of acting.   Instead I admitted my own bias based on seeing so many Kirk films before this one.   Thus the concept of "beg to differ" doesn't exist since I was just channeling my own experience.    

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james, I'm sorry if my "beg to differ" was interpreted by you as supercilious in some way.   I just thought I was being polite, lol.   But re-reading your original post I can see how hasty I was in immediately pre-forming my own opinions about what I thought you had meant.       

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On 6/6/2021 at 11:25 PM, Dargo said:

Hey Holden, speakin' o' which...

I don't remember. Is it ever explained  how Joan got from D.C. to L.A.?

What, maybe "Take Greyhound, and Leave the Driving to Us"???

(...although I don't think you're old enough to remember this...the Greyhound thing, that is)  ;)

It is not explained in the movie how Joan Crawford's character made her way to Los Angeles.

As far as she got in her telling of the story to the doctor and the intern is her shooting of Van Heflin's character (She screams "I killed him!")  but she doesn't tell them what happened after that.

I think earlier she explains the "why" (she wanted to get away from "them") but she doesn't tell the "how." 

 

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13 hours ago, Hibi said:

One of several plot lapses. I think they used the downtown location, but did not mean it specifically to BE L.A. in the plot.......

 

2 hours ago, Dargo said:

If that was the case then Hibi, then why did the director purposely show a number of shots that specifically show and spotlight the name of Los Angeles on buildings (a bank particularly, I believe) and while she's stumbling around the city looking for David?)

The hospital that Joan Crawford's character winds up at is definitely supposed to be in Los Angeles and she was definitely living in the Washington DC area when she was married to Raymond Massey's character.

Reading from her chart the doctor says that she was brought to the hospital wearing clothes with labels from stores in Washington DC.

After she's given the drug, she nods  affirmatively when the doctor asks if she lives in Washington and then he asks her " Why are you in Los Angeles?" 

 

48gLd3J.jpg

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42 minutes ago, HoldenIsHere said:

The hospital that Joan Crawford's character winds up at is definitely supposed to be in Los Angeles....

It is County Hospital in LA. 

BmykPga.jpg

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10 hours ago, HoldenIsHere said:

 

The hospital that Joan Crawford's character winds up at is definitely supposed to be in Los Angeles and she was definitely living in the Washington DC area when she was married to Raymond Massey's character.

Reading from her chart the doctor says that she was brought to the hospital wearing clothes with labels from stores in Washington DC.

After she's given the drug, she nods  affirmatively when the doctor asks if she lives in Washington and then he asks her " Why are you in Los Angeles?" 

 

48gLd3J.jpg

I missed the beginning this time so I didn't hear that. The part about seeing names on buildings I can write off to laziness or they didnt care. But if he said that, then Joan must've had enough money to hop a bus.......

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9 hours ago, Moe Howard said:

It is County Hospital in LA. 

BmykPga.jpg

Is this "County Hospital" the old Queen of Angels hospital? If so, it became a very often used movie location over the decades, and may be still used. 

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22 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

Hibi, no problem.   I can't rely on my memory, but occasionally it comes to life.

 

22 hours ago, Hibi said:

I know the feeling! :D

Sad to see a couple of posters who can't rely on their memories any more.

I recall the time . . .

 

 

WAIT A MINUTE! WHAT WAS I GOING TO SAY?

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21 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

I could never understand what Gilda saw in Johnny.

And Glenn Ford had huge ears too.

I could never understand what Johnny saw in Gilda.

 

WHAT AM I SAYING!?!

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2 hours ago, Stallion said:

Is this "County Hospital" the old Queen of Angels hospital? If so, it became a very often used movie location over the decades, and may be still used. 

It is, and, it is. It's also called USC Medical Center. 

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16 hours ago, Bronxgirl48 said:

james, I'm sorry if my "beg to differ" was interpreted by you as supercilious in some way.   I just thought I was being polite, lol.   But re-reading your original post I can see how hasty I was in immediately pre-forming my own opinions about what I thought you had meant.       

No problem.    A common theme I bring up is how us studio-era movie fans watch movies verses how they were watched when released at the time.   I have found that few of us watch the films associated with an actor or director in chronological  order.    This is unlike my dad who saw these films in theaters as they were released.     

I try to live by the principle of "each movie stands on its own",    but of course that is only in theory;   we are influenced by what we have seen before.   In the case of SLOMI;  before I saw this film,  I had seen Van Heflin in a few roles and one that stood out was his Oscar winning supporting-actor in Johnny Eager.    I had seen Kirk Douglas in films like Spartacus, Seven Days in May and a few noirs like Out of the Past and I Walk Alone.    Thus by the time I saw SLOMI for the first time,  what popped into my head was:   they miscast the two leading men!      

I know that isn't the case now,   but I have found such bias is hard to get out of my head.

 

 

 

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On 6/7/2021 at 2:44 PM, Bronxgirl48 said:

Hi!

My confession -- I was also attracted to Bugs Bunny.....in my twenties.   I'd been through a series of unfortunate relationships (nothing major, just....disappointing.  I know, you're thinking "Gee, I wonder why?" lol) and remember waking up one morning praying I'd turn into a female rabbit.  (because inter-species romance is just, well, not right, not that I'd ever consider such a horrible thing)  Now even though I'm constitutionally drawn to basically white-knight "good guys" as opposed to the supposedly irresistible "bad boys", Bugs always drew me in -- because he was funny, irreverant, and -- furry! (even though you know I loathe body hair on men -- you know, Henry Fonda's hirsuiteness, etc., lol)  But animals with fur are something else entirely.  You can stroke and cuddle them all day....

Now Lawrence Tierney.....I did say that if I thought about him too long I'd get the willies, like if I ripped off that handsome face there'd be some hideous, seething alien creature lurking within.

Yes, I'd "pass" on a date with Elisha. 

I didn't mention Alan Ladd -- (how could that have happened??)  A cutie-pie!  (I do prefer them on the short(er) side.  And he's a blondie, always my preference.  I'd carry Ladd in my pocket all day long then pull him out at night for those intimate romantic moments...

As a born and bred NYC kid I can understand the appeal of Garfield with that street-smart energy you speak of but something is lacking for me.....George Raft's ginormous ears don't bother me in the 1932 SCARFACE -- he's adorable! -- but they begin to annoy by 1940 in THEY DRIVE BY NIGHT.

I got excited seeing Barton Maclane in an undershirt.  (it was in some Universal mummy programmer I believe).

William Powell is my all-time favorite actor but unfortunately he looks like my Uncle Irving.  And Bill is also cursed with very thin and pasty wrists.  Plus he has always looked avuncular, even when young.  (although IRL managed to snag Carole Lombard and Jean Harlow)

I can spot Robert Young a mile away.  It's that sway back posture with the flat feet.  Robert Montgomery has reserves of malevolence (NIGHT MUST FALL, RAGE IN HEAVEN) in his favor.  Young couldn't be sinister if his life depended on it.

Yes, Dana is indeed dishy in FALLEN ANGEL.   But as early as DAISY KENYON I felt his looks and appeal started to go downhill.  (could have been the booze)

Interesting about "attraction" vs. "good-looking".   I think we can all probably agree that Gary Cooper falls into the latter category.  But for me he's just a big plank.   The former is more subjective, n'est pas?  

Cornel Wilde floats my boat, even though he shares with Heflin the slightly buggy eyes...

William Holden -- perfection!  At the height of his all-American rugged small-town gorgeousness in APARTMENT FOR PEGGY and RACHEL AND THE HUNTER.  Now Miss W., if you were Loretta Young in that movie, would you really choose Mitchum over Bill?   Bob seems to be warming up for NIGHT OF THE HUNTER.  No contest.  

Yeah, Zachary has no chin but I actually do find him kind of sexy and charismatic.

So who do I love?  Who makes my heart go pitter-patter?  In no particular order: Rex Harrison but only as Capt. Gregg in THE GHOST AND MRS. MUIR, Roger Livesey but only as the Laird in I KNOW WHERE I'M GOING, James Shigeta (so dreamy in FLOWER DRUM SONG), William Holden (enough said), Tom Conway (one of the few actors who looks good in a mustache, along with Ronald Colman and Bill Powell), Brian Keith (yes!  and I can see a parallel with Van although Brian has a more beefy, John Ford-ish masculinity I never used to find sexy but now do), John Mills (cute short Englishman), John Shelton (Marjorie Reynolds' aristocratic, turncoat boyfriend in THE TIME OF THEIR LIVES; I love me a man in Revolutionary War gear), Nelson Eddy (the ultimate "good guy", and a blonde.  Corny I know, but I'd want him serenading me in a canoe), Leo Genn (Brit intellectual masculinity), Lew Ayres (sensitive and boyish but with interesting undercurrents....)

Must take a break.

Bronxgirl,  thanks for getting back to me re.  actors you think are attractive.   I do apologize  (hey,  I'm Canadian !)  for not responding to your post above sooner,  didn't have a chance to go on this site til today.

Well,  if I've never said it before,  I'll say it now:  I love the way you write.  You have a breezy but very literate,  hugely entertaining style that often makes me laugh out loud  (literally.)  I know you sometimes take breaks from this website....maybe that's why I never noticed til now how much fun your posts are.

Anyway....We agree that it's Bugs'   wit   (he  was witty )  and as you say, irreverence,  that is appealing.  But yeah,  it just wouldn't work for us  (either of us)-  if it's not the inter-speciesism,  it's the animated vs real.    (I'm guessing, if you had a crush on a cartoon character who was at least human, it might be Clutch Cargo?? )

You're right,  I was wondering about Alan Ladd.  I find him more interesting than he's often given credit for.  I actually think he's quite sexy  (although, yes,  a tad scary) in This Gun for Hire.  I love the scene with him and Veronica Lake hiding out in that train shed - the fact that they don't "do" anything only makes it more erotic.  On the other hand,  I can understand if someone found Mr. Ladd a little on the bland side. 

I like William Powell, but only as an actor,  I never found him attractive.  I don't actually go for men with moustaches.  ( George Brent, are you listening?)

But that other William you mention:  YES  !  We can unequivocally agree about William Holden !  Damn,  both good-looking and  attractive  ( as I said and you noted,  they don't always go together.)   Funny thing about Bill Holden, I've never seen anyone age more quickly and visibly on the screen over the years.  When he was young,  he was such a baby face !  I think he's in his prime in a film like Stalag 17.  And for me,  Rachel and the Stranger is a treat because I get to look at both Robert Mitchum and William Holden.  ( two other fave Bill Holden pics for me are Born Yesterday  and Picnic.)   But you can see poor Bill's looks deteriorating over the years, he was such a heavy drinker.  Of course,  this applies to other actors we both like,  Dana Andrews and Alan Ladd.

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:07 PM, Bronxgirl48 said:

Not a fan of googly eyes or blubbery lips, (i.e. Jimmy Stewart)  I'm drawn toward basically sharp-featured guys.   And actors who specialize in Westerns:  Roy Rogers, Tom Tyler, even Harry Carey SENIOR (not the Howdy Doody son).  Ben Johnson as aging Sam the Lion in THE LAST PICTURE SHOW is incredibly sexy to me, much more so than when he was younger in the Ford movies and MIGHTY JOE YOUNG. 

Other crushes:  Dennis Morgan (never more so than in that movie with Ida Lupino, Joan Leslie and Jack Carson; oh God I'm drawing a blank) and I'm obsessed over the obscure actor who plays that young Revolutionary War doctor coming to the aid of General Herkimer in DRUMS ALONG THE MOHAWK. 

What?  Jimmy Stewart blubbery -lipped ? !  And I was just about to mention that I think ol' Jimmy is kind of sexy ...sometimes.  I mean, that scene near the end of The Shop Around the Corner, where he gets all husky-voiced with Margaret Sullivan.   And in a lot of his later films -  some of the Anthony Mann westerns-- he's pretty cool, low-key sexy.   I agree that most early James Stewart ,he's a bit too drawly  and  "now, see here,  " etc.  He got better as he got older  (except for the aforementioned  Shop Around the Corner,  when he was still relatively young.)

image.jpeg.8528e058dc1463cc8d1c63511cc62d45.jpeg

looks good to me.

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On 6/7/2021 at 3:07 PM, Bronxgirl48 said:

 

....Other crushes:  Dennis Morgan (never more so than in that movie with Ida Lupino, Joan Leslie and Jack Carson; oh God I'm drawing a blank)  ....

 

The Hard Way . Dennis Morgan is adorable.  What a cutie.  

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On 6/7/2021 at 4:00 PM, Bronxgirl48 said:

Thompson --  I'm certain Richard Boone has been in a few noirs but the only one my poor Baby Boomer brain can come up with for now is VICKI, the remake of I WAKE UP SCREAMING.   And speaking of Victor Mature, lol, he's not my physical type but definitely an underrated actor.  I've never been drawn  to Sterling Hayden yet can't give you a reason.   Burt's not my cup of tea either....Go figure. 

And, apropos of nothing, I never understood Bette Davis' attraction (and ultimate marriage to) Gary Merrill.  That persistent five o'clock shadow, ugh!   Hairy ape! 

Wha....? !"Burt's not your cup of tea "  ? ! !   Burt Lancaster has to be the single most handsome   ( and attractive ) male actor in all of Hollywood moviedom.  He's got it all;  those wonderful bedroom eyes,  perfect classic features yet not boring-looking,  and charisma,  screen presence, whatever you want to call it.  All that, plus a great voice, very sexy.   Oh,  and a fine actor, too.   Burt Lancaster is the Platonic ideal of male beauty.  

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23 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Bronxgirl,  thanks for getting back to me re.  actors you think are attractive.   I do apologize  (hey,  I'm Canadian !)  for not responding to your post above sooner,  didn't have a chance to go on this site til today.

Well,  if I've never said it before,  I'll say it now:  I love the way you write.  You have a breezy but very literate,  hugely entertaining style that often makes me laugh out loud  (literally.)  I know you sometimes take breaks from this website....maybe that's why I never noticed til now how much fun your posts are.

Anyway....We agree that it's Bug's  wit   (he  was witty )  and as you say, irreverence,  that is appealing.  But yeah,  it just wouldn't work for us  (either of us)-  if it's not the inter-speciesism,  it's the animated vs real.    (I'm guessing, if you had a crush on a cartoon character who was at least human, it might be Clutch Cargo?? )

You're right,  I was wondering about Alan Ladd.  I find him more interesting than he's often given credit for.  I actually think he's quite sexy  (although, yes,  a tad scary) in This Gun for Hire.  I love the scene with him and Veronica Lake hiding out in that train shed - the fact that they don't "do" anything only makes it more erotic.  On the other hand,  I can understand if someone found Mr. Ladd a little on the bland side. 

I like William Powell, but only as an actor,  I never found him attractive.  I don't actually go for men with moustaches.  ( George Brent, are you listening?)

But that other William you mention:  YES  !  We can unequivocally agree about William Holden !  Damn,  both good-looking and  attractive  ( as I said and you noted,  they don't always go together.)   Funny thing about Bill Holden, I've never seen anyone age more quickly and visibly on the screen over the years.  When he was young,  he was such a baby face !  I think he's in his prime in a film like Stalag 17.  And for me,  Rachel and the Stranger is a treat because I get to look at both Robert Mitchum and William Holden.  ( two other fave Bill Holden pics for me are Born Yesterday  and Picnic.)   But you can see poor Bill's looks deteriorating over the years, he was such a heavy drinker.  Of course,  this applies to other actors we both like,  Dana Andrews and Alan Ladd.

Hhmmpphh! I was stacheless in my early career......

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On 6/7/2021 at 4:43 PM, Vautrin said:

....... John Ireland? Well, I've read that Ireland was a member in good

standing of the big dick club, along with Frank Sinatra and Uncle Miltie. But I'll let that pass.

 

Apparently George S .Kaufman belonged to that club too.   (I'm surprised that part of your post got past the OTTOCensor.)

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24 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Bronxgirl,  thanks for getting back to me re.  actors you think are attractive.   I do apologize  (hey,  I'm Canadian !)  for not responding to your post above sooner,  didn't have a chance to go on this site til today.

Well,  if I've never said it before,  I'll say it now:  I love the way you write.  You have a breezy but very literate,  hugely entertaining style that often makes me laugh out loud  (literally.)  I know you sometimes take breaks from this website....maybe that's why I never noticed til now how much fun your posts are.

Anyway....We agree that it's Bug's  wit   (he  was witty )  and as you say, irreverence,  that is appealing.  But yeah,  it just wouldn't work for us  (either of us)-  if it's not the inter-speciesism,  it's the animated vs real.    (I'm guessing, if you had a crush on a cartoon character who was at least human, it might be Clutch Cargo?? )

You're right,  I was wondering about Alan Ladd.  I find him more interesting than he's often given credit for.  I actually think he's quite sexy  (although, yes,  a tad scary) in This Gun for Hire.  I love the scene with him and Veronica Lake hiding out in that train shed - the fact that they don't "do" anything only makes it more erotic.  On the other hand,  I can understand if someone found Mr. Ladd a little on the bland side. 

I like William Powell, but only as an actor,  I never found him attractive.  I don't actually go for men with moustaches.  ( George Brent, are you listening?)

But that other William you mention:  YES  !  We can unequivocally agree about William Holden !  Damn,  both good-looking and  attractive  ( as I said and you noted,  they don't always go together.)   Funny thing about Bill Holden, I've never seen anyone age more quickly and visibly on the screen over the years.  When he was young,  he was such a baby face !  I think he's in his prime in a film like Stalag 17.  And for me,  Rachel and the Stranger is a treat because I get to look at both Robert Mitchum and William Holden.  ( two other fave Bill Holden pics for me are Born Yesterday  and Picnic.)   But you can see poor Bill's looks deteriorating over the years, he was such a heavy drinker.  Of course,  this applies to other actors we both like,  Dana Andrews and Alan Ladd.

Being an alcoholic (and cig smoker) will do that to you........(Holden)

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4 minutes ago, misswonderly3 said:

Apparently George S .Kaufman belonged to that club too.   (I'm surprised that part of your post got past the OTTOCensor.)

Yes, me too! Censor must've taken the day off.  I have also heard that John Hamm is in that "club"! Also Forrest Tucker (I STILL would've turned him down!)

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